[Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

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What mounts do the orcs fly on?

Postby aklanda » Fri May 19, 2017 7:20 pm

Just a question: In Gazeeter 10, Orcs of Thar, Page 9, there is the statement, that there are "25 flying red orcs with spears and bolas" in the Legion of Thar. I tried to find out, WHAT mount they are flying on, but could not find any hint. Or are they flying by magic? There are also other flying units mentioned: Also "25 flying orcs with spears and nets" in the "Drippin Blades"-unit and "15 flying orcs with bolas" in the "Cavern Blades"-units from Red Orcland.

For the purpose of the simulator I put them on Pteranodons, but these seem far too powerful to me!

Did I miss the information? Could anybody please provide the missing information?

Thanks in advance!
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby religon » Sat May 20, 2017 3:38 am

If ever specified in canon, I'm unaware. One monster than comes to mind are large crows (2+2 HD). That seems about right to hold an orc and seems somewhat thematic.
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby aklanda » Wed May 24, 2017 7:08 pm

Hy, religon,


thanks for the suggestion. I will defintily consider it.

Right now I am working at the KI of the simulator. Specially flying-units are on my schedule. Maybe I will be able to post another movie on the weekend!
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby Mortis » Wed May 24, 2017 7:38 pm

You might also consider using specially-bred/magically-created winged orcs. A lot of other creatures on Mystara have winged versions so why not?
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby Robin » Wed May 24, 2017 7:49 pm

Actually, as can be seen in the Almanacs, they fly on the same mounts the Shadow Elves use; The Skinwing (see my Mystara Monster Manual Compilation book chapter Animals page 232; http://pandius.com/Monster_Manual_2.pdf . Apparently these critters are abundant in the larger caves below, and they seem unaffected by sunlight (contrary to Shadow Elves who are harmed or humanoids who are often blinded, lose morale and such.)
Large and giant raven (same book page 131) Giant ravens (Corvus Gigantes) are both pugnacious and easily trained (if raised from fledglings), and are often used as guards and messengers. While they are too small to be used as mounts by all but small humanoids (i.e., faerie folk and PCs under the effects of a potion of diminution), the strength of these birds is enough to carry an adult halfling.
The Raven, Huge (Corvus Enormus) could carry lightweight humansized riders.
keep in mind that the constitution (adjusted with Strength bonus/penalty if any) decides how long these creatures can fly with a rider. normally this is 3 Turns per constitution point, if excerted half (round up), with a rider this is halved again; thus with an average constitution of 9 unloaded it could fly 9x3 Turns = 4.5 Hours(4 hours 3 Turns), if excerted 2 hours and 2 turns(rounded up), but with a rider and excerted due combat only 7 Turns!!
The same goes for Skinwings (or any other mount for that matter).


Another method I introduced here http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=15023&start=125#p183633 where Goblins use baloons and gliders. but Balloons are subject to windcurrents and thus can start only from downwind somewhere and then crossing the battlefield, and gliders must start from a higher location.
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby Robin » Wed May 24, 2017 7:57 pm

Mortis wrote:You might also consider using specially-bred/magically-created winged orcs. A lot of other creatures on Mystara have winged versions so why not?

\On the western Continent of Brun there are Kobolds with Wings (some weird mage has grated them and crafted genetically onto them)... This is fanon as far as I know...but the AD&D2 Urd http://www.lomion.de/cmm/kobold.php can be used to reflect these rare and local only creatures
Image

and please please remember that Mystara Kobolds are NOT lizard kin, but caninoid Humanoids. Not what they made them in later D&D editions, those are not kobolds, but more easily Caymen instead!!!
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby aklanda » Fri May 26, 2017 4:06 pm

Robin wrote:The Skinwing (see my Mystara Monster Manual Compilation book chapter Animals page 232)

Hi Robin,
First of all: Your book is an amazing work. I was aware of it, but hadn´t had time to take a closer look on it.

I remember reading about the skinwings in GAZ10 Orcs of Thar, but my english is too bad, so I didn´t associate them with mountable animals. Thanks, that is a great help!

I already implemented "flying" in the simulator, but the artifical intelligence causes some troubles. Maybe I can show ,more of it in some days.

Thanks again for all the help!
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Orcs flying on skinwings

Postby aklanda » Fri May 26, 2017 4:47 pm

I implemented the skinwings. As I understood the version with HD4 is appropriate for the orcs. Once more: Thanks Robin! I decided, that the skinwings themselves have no armor, as the abilities of the orcs seem rather too low to forge armor for themselves, it doesn´t seem right to let them forge armor for their mounts.

Here is a picture showing "Thar´s Legion" and the "Cavern Orc Patrol" facing the IV. Legion of Darokin.
Right now the flying orcs do nothing more than "flying". I will have to work on the AI, as mentioned before. Click on the image to see more details:

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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby Robin » Sat May 27, 2017 7:29 pm

Glad to have helped. :lol: and...there are more chapters done (basic/Animals/Lowlife/undead/construct/fairy/ and more to come)

As you follow the Orcs of Thar, you know that Humanoids actually do NOT use forges to make armor...they just use what they can find from corpses, trash, etc and make a combined armor of it ..the average AC it gives is 2+1d4 (lets say 3).
They would indeed NOT make an armor for a skinwing, except may be the mount of their beloved leader (and 1 to 4 bodyguards) at best.

I would be interested how these combats resolve if the Armor Value system from the Thyatian/Alphatian boxed set is used.
It was suggested combats would last longer, but as time is of an essence in decision making, it could have profound effects on a mass combat scale.
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Thars Legion vs Darokins VII Legion

Postby aklanda » Sun May 28, 2017 12:39 am

"Thars Legion", leaded by King Thar himself and supported by the "Cavern Orc Patrol", attacks Darokins VII Legion. There are orcs, gnomes, and even trolls, bugbears and hill giants in Thars Legion. But, and this comes as an surprise to the Darokins, there are also some orcs flying skinwings. And they are really nasty! Here's the movie:

https://youtu.be/wA6uorcUDwc

Here's a preview picture of it:
Image

Thanks to Robin for the info regarding the skinwings,
to religon about the large crows (though they havn´t made it into the simulator yet)
and to Lord Sheriff Takari, who made some suggestions on what tactic flying units may use.

There is still a long todo-list in my mind, but I will try to present more movies in the future.

The following pictures show a list of the amount of individual charactes before and the casualties after the battle. The shortcuts are probably somehow esoteric, but you might get along with it, if I tell you, that all shortcuts beginning with an "D" are Darokin soldiers. You might also guess, that
"DKV" is "Darokin cavalry",
"DPM" is "Darokin Pikemen" and
"DAR" is "Darokin Archer".
All other are humanoids from Thars Legion, especially
OrcSW05 are the orcs riding the skinwings
The number behind each shortcut is a hint to the level of the character. Click on the previes to enlarge:
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby aklanda » Sun May 28, 2017 12:56 am

Hi Robin,

thanks for your remarks. And I hope you can keep up the excellent work witht he monster manuals.

Most implemented humanoids have indeed no armor and have to trust on their natural AC. I took the freedom to give the higher-level humanoids some better armor, beginning with chainmail, which will be equivalent to your remarks. Thar himself and his chieftains are provided with better armor, but this seems fair to me.

I have the Thyatian/Alphation boxed set, but right now I can´t remember the armor-system mentioned there. I will try to look it up another day.

Robin wrote:It was suggested combats would last longer, but as time is of an essence in decision making, it could have profound effects on a mass combat scale.


I have to work on this. I divide a round into 9 pieces (due to the fact, that the initiative-rolls of the characters must be taken in consideration) and after every such a piece a screenshot is made. When I produce the movies, each of this screenshots is shown 0.2 seconds, which will condense a round (which is as I remember 10 seconds) into roughly 2 seconds.
I tried otherwise, e.g. showing a single screenshot for 1 second, but the result seemed not very fluently to me. But I can make another try with the named modification next time, if most of you prefer a real-time experience.
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Real game-time and all of Broken Lands

Postby aklanda » Sun May 28, 2017 4:11 pm

Ok, I was interested about real-game-time in large-scale-battles, so I made a new simulation:

This is all of the Broken Lands against the Second Army of Darokin (stationed in Selenica), supported from the II Legion, the XIII Legion and the XIV Legion of the Third Army of Darokin (stationed in Corunglain).

There are

9671 human cavalry men, pikemen and archers against about
12800 orcs, bugbears, gnolls, ogres and even hill giants and trolls. And some orcs are even flying on skinwings, picking out the human commanders with their bolas and bows.

The movie is in real-game-time (if I hadn´t miscalculated) with one D&D-round approximatly 10 seconds in the movie. In about 12 minutes all the battle is settled.

This is just a preview which emphasized on real game-time; There is no music and no comments on the battle.
I plan to make a more elaborated movie about this incident in the future. Anyways: enjoy: https://youtu.be/bBcEHrjTO38

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Simulator has gone 3D

Postby aklanda » Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:32 pm

I was a bit disappointed about the isometric-view, so I decided to go real 3D.
The video just shows the first results. The graphics are hardware-accelerated and the camera is fast as lightning (in contrast to before). No arrows and no magics are shown right, but the game-machanics are still working: Soldiers from both armies still drop dead or flee. Enjoy the movie:

Enjoy: https://youtu.be/FvpiVXJjV5U

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Last edited by aklanda on Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Now with arrows...

Postby aklanda » Mon Jun 05, 2017 10:15 pm

Yet another preview in 3D. This time it´s all of the Broken Lands against Darokin (and arrows are shown): https://youtu.be/1q8R8s04j8g
3D looks good but now I wonder how I should present all the character-information in the graphics (Hit Points, Damage taken etc.). Will have to think about it some time...

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Went to Glantri

Postby aklanda » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:22 pm

I will concentrate more on Glantri in the coming weeks, as it looks very interesting with all the magic to implement.

You can find my post to Glantri over here: http://www.thepiazza.org.uk/bb/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17919
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby Robin » Tue Jun 06, 2017 11:48 pm

one remark, one complaint and one tip ;P

the remark; The beginning of the combat is difficult to see, there is a lot happening in the upper right corner what i can't interprete as something useful (for you maybe, but for me as viewer ..no nope nada.. If making a 3d video make it clear as if you are looking at it besides the combat...like a real cameraman/woman
the complaint; stop fiddling with the camera position and the zoom button,; not only do you do this thus fast that you lose focus, it also gives a headache and dizzyness. choose one position and SLOWLY!!! zooom in or out or move aside in ONE direction(not back and forth or become a jojo)
The tip; I do not recognize which colored cube is what...may be a simple figure(race/rider/warmachine/etc) would clarify, and make it much much more interesting.
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby aklanda » Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:31 pm

Thanks for your remarks and tip (and also thanks for your complain). Yes, the simulator IS a work in progress and there is still lots to do. But I appreciate any comments and complains, as I might suffer under a tunnel vison. And you are right: when you work so many hours with these goblins, orcs and so on, you simply take some aspects of the simulator for granted.

Robin wrote:the remark; The beginning of the combat is difficult to see, there is a lot happening in the upper right corner what i can't interprete as something useful (for you maybe, but for me as viewer ..no nope nada.. If making a 3d video make it clear as if you are looking at it besides the combat...like a real cameraman/woman

I liked the "nada"-part of it! Yes, you are right, that was difficult to interpret (actually I gave some orders to the groups). This part of the simulator is still very rough. I just wanted to show, that you can give different orders to the groups.

Robin wrote:the complaint; stop fiddling with the camera position and the zoom button,; not only do you do this thus fast that you lose focus, it also gives a headache and dizzyness. choose one position and SLOWLY!!! zooom in or out or move aside in ONE direction(not back and forth or become a jojo)


Actually these are the first movies I have ever made in my live and I am still on the learning trip. And to tell the truth: I am so happy with the fast 3D camera, that I simply can´t stop myself to change position. But I will try to cool down in this aspect...

Robin wrote:The tip; I do not recognize which colored cube is what...may be a simple figure(race/rider/warmachine/etc) would clarify, and make it much much more interesting.


Yes, I can comprehend that. I am still looking for a decent but simply way to make them recognizeable. Now the 3d models are created "on the fly" and for sure I would love to have some of them to be a bit more accurate then just a cube.

Unfortunatly it takes lots of time to make 3D models (even the simply ones), let alone to give them all the equipment and textures. I assume, that is the field on which quite some of the dollars and the time of the game-developers are spend, when they create new games. With me as a hobby- and solo-programmer this is definitly out of the reach. I´m also not really a picasso, when it comes to art (or to be more accurate: my paintings might look like the ones of picasso in his more abstract part of work). I made a quick research in the Internet about license-free 3D models. I found some, but are not so sure about the legal aspects of using them. There is also a creator for human-like models. I might implement a methos to import models created with other programms, but there are quite a lot of different file-formats as I see it.

For now I decided to improve by some simple "hacks":

1. First I asked the guys to line up neatly and be so kind as to introduce themselves. It needed some whiping and shouting for the humanoids, but at last they all did as asked. I was able to take a picture before they attacked each other. You see it below. Click on it to enlarge.

2. Right now the goblin-riders and the cavalry is not really displayed as "mounted". I will try to fix this, so that you can easily differrenciate between mounted units and not-mounted ones at least .

Thanks again for your comment. Keep them coming...

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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby aklanda » Fri Jun 09, 2017 1:52 am

Robin wrote:The tip; I do not recognize which colored cube is what...may be a simple figure(race/rider/warmachine/etc) would clarify, and make it much much more interesting.


Ok, it took me a hole day and lot of grey hair, but finally I found a possibility to improve on this a bit:

1. Now there is the possibility to import 3d-meshes in the format "ogre3d" (no, it has nothing to do with ogres in D&D). I found a programm to make 3dmodels for human bodies (and, if you make them ugly, they may also count as orcs, goblins and so on). The software has the ability to export in the file-format "ogre3D". If anyone wants to play a bit and likes to send me his 3dmodels of ogres, goblins and so on, you can get the software over here (it's free and NO, I am not connected to the publisher): http://www.makehuman.org/

2. I implemented, that mounted forces are shown as mounted. That means: they are now "standing" on their mounts. You can see this in the picture below, as some of the orcs (which should now be recognizeable as orcs) stand on their skinwings (which are grey, somewhat cubish and thus probably NOT very well recognizeable, which is the reason why I tell you they are skinwings in case you don´t believe it...)

3. The commanders of the platoons are now recognizeable by the yellow cube hoovering over them.

4. Anything more artful is probably out of my reach,especially when it comes to knights on horses, orcs on skinwings and so on... If anybody knows a software that creates THAT on the fly, please tell me!

Click on the picture to enlarge:

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Orcs, Ogres, Goblins, Trolls and Kobolds

Postby aklanda » Fri Jun 09, 2017 8:31 pm

Ok, did some work with the software I mentioned before and created some weird looking humanoid-3d-models for orcs, ogres, goblins, trolls and kobolds.

Here is a preview (click on the picture to enlarge). Can you guess who is who?

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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby Robin » Wed Jun 14, 2017 7:51 pm

Way better than various cubes
so the grey hairs earn themselves a color shift ;)

for a skin wing just choose a pteradactyl...there are surely 3d animal configurations online which you could use, also for horse/beast/etc
more than you think of and I know. and since the move not shift shape this must be do-able
great work...and fast too ;)
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby oleck » Fri Jun 16, 2017 2:36 pm

Wow my very very good.
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby aklanda » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:04 pm

Robin wrote:Way better than various cubes
so the grey hairs earn themselves a color shift ;)


Thanks. Yes, it´s better, but unfortunatly a lot of work.

Robin wrote:for a skin wing just choose a pteradactyl...there are surely 3d animal configurations online which you could use, also for horse/beast/etc
more than you think of and I know. and since the move not shift shape this must be do-able
great work...and fast too ;)


Yes, you are right, there are lots of 3d models around. But the problem is not only about finding a 3d model but for finding a 3d model with a free license AND with a license, that is also understandable for the juridical novice.
And unfortunatly the models around are all saved in a different file-format, which gives me the option to either implement different import-functions for every common file-format (which are a lot) or to install a dozened 3d-apps on my pc to be able to convert from one file-format to another.

I found 3dmodels for a dragon, a pteranadon (which will probably take the roll of skinwings), for wolves and horses. Let´s see, what I will be able to do with it.

Right now the simulator is able to understand 3d models in the ogre-file format and some (!) 3d models in .obj-format. But I will keep working on it.

Sadly I am occupied with my (other) real life, but hey - next holidays will probably come sometime!
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby aklanda » Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:05 pm

oleck wrote:Wow my very very good.

Thanks Oleck!
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Re: [Large Scale Battles] Broken Lands vs. Darokin + movies

Postby Robin » Sat Jun 24, 2017 1:24 pm

I might maybe....very maybe...possible to scan a pterodactyl miniature of decades ago in a 3d File which I use as Skinwings.
I have to ask. come back to this later.

Whatever the work you had to do extra...it is worth it ;P
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