[Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

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[Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

Post by Havard » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:04 pm

Annwn was introduced in PC1 p 62.

From the brief information there we know the following:

1) The Ruler is Gwynn Ap Nudd
2) This is an underground realm that was isolated from the surface in the Blackmoor Cataclysm.

Fan material:
Annwn NPCs, by Lost Woodrake
Magic of Annwn, by Lost Woodrake

I this thread about Mystara's archfey, Cthulhudrew speculated a connection between Gwynn and Herne the Hunter and pointed out connections to the Wild Hunt in B8, and a Herne-like figure in X2. We also talked about how Herne might be a master trainer and breeder of Spectral Hounds.

Is Annwn the realm of the Unseelie Court? There is no official mention of an Unseelie Court in Mystara material, but I assume one must exist. I'm thinking the Unseelie Court would more likely be connected to Baba Yaga, Hags and Vampires. I do recall some discussions about this many years ago, but can't find any of that on pandius?

Is Annwn located on Mystara or is it a kingdom in the Plane of the Feywood? I think the latter makes most sense, but the reference about it being isolated after the Blackmoor Cataclysm is puzzling. Is there room for multiple underground Fey realms in the Feywood?

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Re: [Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

Post by Robin » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:44 am

In my Mystara Monster manual Compilation of Fairies I used these link as source, but decided not to use these as they seemed too far off canon in that time. Some of these links are remade/reposted and expanded, more than I have checked on the go. I have removed the extinct links of this list (7)
1===https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annwn
2===http://www.sarahwoodbury.com/what-was-annwn/
3===https://owlcation.com/social-sciences/A ... Underworld
4===http://www.sarahwoodbury.com/what-was-annwn/
5===http://chalicecentre.net/blog/the-gates-of-annwn/
6===https://www.encyclopedia.com/environmen ... maps/annwn
7===https://www.reddragontales.com/single-p ... Otherworld
Map; http://www.pengridion.co.uk/wp-content/ ... wn-TWT.jpg
Map; http://shawnspeakman.com/wp-content/upl ... wn-map.jpg
This is a fantasy graphic music video on Annwn which in my opinion truly befits Mystara Isle of Dawn mythology
It has a lot of additonal information ...and in old celtic (translations in text video)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m8zQSqcvHcc

Annwn was also used in stargate tv series
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/sta ... 0603080118
https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Annwn

Maybe it all helps in your creative thought-train ;)
Especially link 7 inspired me to make additional Isle of Dawn locations on the canon TM1/2 maps as given there
I had placed it between Ekto and Fortress of Kendacxh on and around the seperate plateaux there
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Re: [Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

Post by ripvanwormer » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:48 am

I assumed a group of sidhe who physically resemble shadowelves.

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Re: [Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

Post by ripvanwormer » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:39 am

ripvanwormer wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:48 am
I assumed a group of sidhe who physically resemble shadowelves.
Perhaps they were citizens of the ancient kingdom of Grondheim who came to live alongside Atzanteotl's people prior to the Lesser Rain of Fire, and were forced to retreat underground alongside them, forming a secret nation in the caverns below Alfheim, or the Faerie equivalent of that region.

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Re: [Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

Post by Cthulhudrew » Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:00 am

I've always felt that the southwestern Isle of Dawn (the so-called Shadow Coast) was a perfect location for a Mystaran Unseelie Court to have as its primary gathering point, and that Annwn is something else entirely. Similarly, the leprechaun kingdom of Faylinn may be in the Redstone area (or possibly on Skothar or Davania).

I admit I had forgotten about the part where it was apparently cut off by the cataclysm. That and the note that it is considered a "legendary" kingdom suggest that it is not in contact with the current fairies at all.

It could possibly be some kingdom deep under the earth and only in contact with subterranean peoples, such as the shadowelves or the like. What if Annwn was actually long abandoned, and was the place where Atruatzin later established Mictlan (only to be later overtaken by the Shadowelves and renamed Aengmor)? What then became of Gwynn ap Nudd and his kin? Perhaps they left in search of their surface kin, but are now seeking allies to help them reclaim their ancestral home?

It could also be a Hollow World kingdom, somewhere on the opposite side of the World Shield, in which case it might exist in one of the known regions, or perhaps in some hitherto undiscovered "Welsh" like area (populated by ancient Dunael peoples). They might then be in semi-regular contact with Xochiquetzal's fairy folk.
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Re: [Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

Post by Havard » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:15 am

ripvanwormer wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:48 am
I assumed a group of sidhe who physically resemble shadowelves.
I like this idea! It fits fairly well with some descriptions of Gwynn ap Nudd.

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Re: [Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

Post by Havard » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:19 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 6:00 am
I've always felt that the southwestern Isle of Dawn (the so-called Shadow Coast) was a perfect location for a Mystaran Unseelie Court to have as its primary gathering point, and that Annwn is something else entirely. Similarly, the leprechaun kingdom of Faylinn may be in the Redstone area (or possibly on Skothar or Davania).

I admit I had forgotten about the part where it was apparently cut off by the cataclysm. That and the note that it is considered a "legendary" kingdom suggest that it is not in contact with the current fairies at all.

It could possibly be some kingdom deep under the earth and only in contact with subterranean peoples, such as the shadowelves or the like. What if Annwn was actually long abandoned, and was the place where Atruatzin later established Mictlan (only to be later overtaken by the Shadowelves and renamed Aengmor)? What then became of Gwynn ap Nudd and his kin? Perhaps they left in search of their surface kin, but are now seeking allies to help them reclaim their ancestral home?

It could also be a Hollow World kingdom, somewhere on the opposite side of the World Shield, in which case it might exist in one of the known regions, or perhaps in some hitherto undiscovered "Welsh" like area (populated by ancient Dunael peoples). They might then be in semi-regular contact with Xochiquetzal's fairy folk.
Interesting possibilities. I like the idea of the Unseelie Court having a presence on the Shadow Court. I also see them having connections in Karameikos and if New Thonia could be based on Russia, then I could also see that being the realm of the Baba Yaga...

As to the separation, we know that the Blackmoor Cataclysm had consequences outside the Prime Material Plane. Could the destruction have lead to parts of the Plane of the Feywood being ripped away from the rest leaving Annwn as a separate plane only accessable from certain parts of Mystara, but not the rest of the Feywood?

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Re: [Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

Post by TheGlen » Wed Dec 04, 2019 12:15 am

If you go by the legends, Anwnn is either a paradise or a place of total neutrality where no one wants, but there is never any surplus either. Since it was kind of an afterlife it doesn't really apply to Mystara. Gwyn Ap Nudd is also known as the Ashen Faced Lord, and is known for being quite serious and honoring all deals to the letter. He's a powerful warrior that none can match but unless you betray him, attack him or go after his sister he's not one to actively go out into the world outside of a vendetta. He's not too concerned with mortals unless they cross him, but if they do it's not a mistake they live to regret.

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Re: [Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

Post by Big Mac » Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:54 am

ripvanwormer wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:48 am
I assumed a group of sidhe who physically resemble shadowelves.
So how do you get sidhe who look like shadowlelves?

Would they be sidhe who lived in the lands of shadowelves and somehow managed to mimic them (presumably to avoid detection)?

Would they be shadowelves that came to a fey land and who got transformed into sidhe? (Maybe via a portal that turns everyone into fey...or maybe by some sort of "if you live here a year and a day you wake up as a fey" rule.)

Or would they be fey who took in a few shadowelves into their community, and who then morphed to look like them? (Maybe they are half elf and half sidhe....or a quarter elf...or an eighth elf...or some other small amount.)
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Re: [Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

Post by ripvanwormer » Wed Dec 04, 2019 7:45 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Wed Dec 04, 2019 8:54 am
So how do you get sidhe who look like shadowlelves?
Tall Tales of the Wee Folk said that most sidhe looked like elves or half-elves, but sidhe resembling other demihumans (halflings, dwarves, etc.) were possible.
Would they be sidhe who lived in the lands of shadowelves and somehow managed to mimic them (presumably to avoid detection)?
I think they may have evolved into shadowelf-like forms after dwelling underground for centuries.
Would they be shadowelves that came to a fey land and who got transformed into sidhe?
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Re: [Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

Post by Havard » Sat Dec 07, 2019 11:56 am

Havard wrote:
Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:19 am
As to the separation, we know that the Blackmoor Cataclysm had consequences outside the Prime Material Plane. Could the destruction have lead to parts of the Plane of the Feywood being ripped away from the rest leaving Annwn as a separate plane only accessable from certain parts of Mystara, but not the rest of the Feywood?

I wonder if we could treat Annwn as the Feydark, the Underdark of the Feywild in later editions? There could be other realms similar to Annwn as well below the Feywood? Although the fact that Annwn is cut off from the rest of the Feywood does raise some questions...

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Re: [Feywood] Annwn: What do we know about it?

Post by Robin » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:53 pm

Hi Havard
The following link may give you inspiration
these describe real world legend entries to these realms, in text, picture, or video.
aybe it will help
if not it is still interesting, and inspirational (for me at least intentionally to visit these locations if I am close)
https://listverse.com/2014/09/29/10-rea ... locations/
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