NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

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NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Havard » Mon Nov 17, 2008 4:58 pm

Hi there,
In this thread I will be presenting my in progress work on translating NM2: Treasure of Crocodile Island as I promised Geoff. Starting off though,
here is a map of Crocodile Islanditself. More maps will be appearing in this thread, as well as background info and details on the module, so stay tuned!

The suggested location for this sinking island is somewhere in the Thanegioth Archipelago. Can someone suggest a good location for it within that area? Perhaps using this map by Thorf (and modified by LordJuss) as a point of discussions?

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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby LoZompatore » Mon Nov 17, 2008 6:33 pm

Cool! 8-)

Thanks a lot, Havard! Any info about this module is really welcome!
As far as the map is concerned, I really like its "X1-style". About its location I would say that the Thanegiot Archipelago sounds fine for me. The island is quite small (just 3 km across) but it seems a tropical volcanic atoll nevertheless; maybe the Pearl Islands could be another suitable place for this area, who knows ;)

Well done! :)
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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Seer of Yhog » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:18 pm

Wow Havard - thanks for starting this up!

Looking at that map brought back a lot of memories, given the same look and feel it has to the other maps of that era. Makes me wonder how many similar products there are floating around out there...
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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby TraverseTravis » Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:41 pm

Many thanks for posting this Havard!

After reviewing that WotC thread:

In regards to the "Latin" language of the sword, didn't someone (James Mishler?) suggest that the "Old Thyatian" language (of what time period?) was the M-Latin language, that later developed into the M-Byzantine Greek of 1000AC? If so, this "Old Thyatian" might be fitting.

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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Havard » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:32 pm

LoZompatore wrote:Cool! 8-)

Thanks a lot, Havard! Any info about this module is really welcome!


That's nice to know Michele. I will present as much information about the module as possible in this thread, eventually leading up to a full translation.

As far as the map is concerned, I really like its "X1-style". About its location I would say that the Thanegiot Archipelago sounds fine for me. The island is quite small (just 3 km across) but it seems a tropical volcanic atoll nevertheless; maybe the Pearl Islands could be another suitable place for this area, who knows ;)


Yeah, you are right. It is so small it can be placed anywhere. The module specifically states that if the module is used with the D&D Known World, the island should be located in the Thanegioth Archipelago.

Something to consider: Marked as 4 on the module map, is the wreck of a ship named the Swallow. This ship was used to smuggle ivory to the Known World (Ierendi most likely) from somewhere. Where does this Ivory come from? Davania, or perhaps the Serpent peninsula? If the latter, that might suggest placing the island to the westernmost side of the Eastern Thangeioth, perhaps close to location 1 on LordJuss' map.

Well done! :)


Thanks! Note that I did not make the map. It is the scan from the module itself.

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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Havard » Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:41 pm

TraverseTravis wrote:Many thanks for posting this Havard!


No problem :)

Sorry it took me so long to get around to it.

After reviewing that WotC thread:

In regards to the "Latin" language of the sword, didn't someone (James Mishler?) suggest that the "Old Thyatian" language (of what time period?) was the M-Latin language, that later developed into the M-Byzantine Greek of 1000AC? If so, this "Old Thyatian" might be fitting.


That is certainly a possibility.

The sword, Travis is referring to is part of the series of magical items that make up the core of the actual Treasure of Crocodile island, which the module is named after:

Havard wrote:New Magic Items (From NM2):

Assasin's rod
A person touched by the rod suffers the effect of a Death Spell (Lvl 6). The victim must save at -3 vs Death Ray. It can only be used by a Neutral or Chaotic character. This Rod has charges, like a wand or staff. There are 8 charges left in this particular rod.

Kvassegg (Sharp Egde)
This is a magical intelligent normal sword with Int 11. It can speak five languages: Elven, Dwarven, Common, Latin(?) and Orcish. The sword's alignment is Chaotic. Other abiltities: Detect Good, Detect Invisibiliy, Extra damage, Fly. The sword has an Ego of 22. It's name is carved into both sides of the sword's blade with Dwarven runes.

Ring of Dragon Control
This ring works as a potion of Dragon control, except that you can only control Neutral and Chaotic Dragons. The Dragons will not be hostile towards the user once the effect ends. The ring can only be used by Neutral or Chaotic characters. (Note: This item seems very unbalancing)

These three items were crafted by the evil magic user Ithaq-Talmir along with a Staff of Commanding, a Mirror of Imprisonment and a Staff of the Magi which he used to control the "lands in the North" under his tyrannical rule some centuries ago. Recently they were brought on a ship which shipwrecked in the Thanegioth Archipelago and the items became the Treasure of Crocodile Island.


I think the main question to the details of the sword will be answered if we figure out the origins of the wizard Ithaq-Talmir. If he lived during the Nithian civilization as Cthulhudrew suggests, then it is likely that the sword speaks Nithian. If the treasure was created at a later date (The module does say centuries, not milennia), then whatever was the common tongue at the time might be used?

I have to say I do like the idea of Ithaq-Talmir being one of the Nithian nobles who conquered the Northern Reaches though.


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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Cthulhudrew » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:30 pm

Is Crocodile Island just the name for the island in the center of the atoll, or for the entire atoll itself? (Looking at the legend would seem to indicate the latter, but if it's the former, perhaps Croc Island is simply an island that lay inside of the Termite Atoll from the Sea of Dread map.)
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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Seer of Yhog » Tue Nov 18, 2008 5:24 am

Havard wrote:I think the main question to the details of the sword will be answered if we figure out the origins of the wizard Ithaq-Talmir. If he lived during the Nithian civilization as Cthulhudrew suggests, then it is likely that the sword speaks Nithian. If the treasure was created at a later date (The module does say centuries, not milennia), then whatever was the common tongue at the time might be used?


I read through the thread on Wizards - I'd agree that the wizard being Nithian makes the most sense, given his role as overlord of the North.

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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Havard » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:31 pm

Cthulhudrew wrote:Is Crocodile Island just the name for the island in the center of the atoll, or for the entire atoll itself? (Looking at the legend would seem to indicate the latter, but if it's the former, perhaps Croc Island is simply an island that lay inside of the Termite Atoll from the Sea of Dread map.)


Crocodile Island is the entire atoll. The island is actually a submerged volcano, the small island in the center being the result of a small volcanic eruption. I can post the full description of the island later on. They really went to alot of detail describing the island including its unusual fauna, villagers etc.

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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Havard » Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:38 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:I read through the thread on Wizards - I'd agree that the wizard being Nithian makes the most sense, given his role as overlord of the North.


Agreed. There was some confusion, probably caused by me, as to how the magic items ended up in the Thanegioth Archipelago. However, when Ithaq-Talmir was killed, the items were hidden in the ruins of his stronhold untill they were recovered by adventurers. The items then somehow went from the posession of the adventurers into the ownership of the Sons of the Serpents (Followers of Ithaq-Talmir and Entropy) who are now trying to smuggle the items back into the Known World. The text doesn't really give much more detail than what I provided here. Likely the adventurers travelled to Davania or some other southern location where they were killed by the Sons of the Serpent. The module hints that this organization is stronger outside the Known World as it is outlawed there (hence the smuggling). The items ended up on Crocodile Island, when the Swallow, carrying the items in between crates of ivory, went shipwrecked on Crocodile Island. The Swallow was under the employ of the Sons of the Serpent at the time.

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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Seer of Yhog » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:17 pm

Havard wrote:I can post the full description of the island later on. They really went to alot of detail describing the island including its unusual fauna, villagers etc.


I would really love to see this! How long is the module, BTW?
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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Seer of Yhog » Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:18 pm

Havard wrote:Likely the adventurers travelled to Davania or some other southern location where they were killed by the Sons of the Serpent. The module hints that this organization is stronger outside the Known World as it is outlawed there (hence the smuggling).


Does the module describe how the Sons of the Serpent are organised, or any special abilities its members might have? They sound like a nice cult. :twisted:
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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Havard » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:48 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:I would really love to see this! How long is the module, BTW?


The module is 16 pages. I'm at work now, but I should be able to get the general description of the Island translated tonight (CET). :)
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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Havard » Wed Nov 19, 2008 10:55 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:Does the module describe how the Sons of the Serpent are organised, or any special abilities its members might have? They sound like a nice cult. :twisted:


There isn't that much detail. They are an organization "working to spread chaos in the world". They are outlawed in "most civilized countries". Interestingly that last sentence does seem to indicate that it is quite a large organization. Two agents of the cult are statted out. I will investigate this further later today. I do remember that they both have a serpentine ring on one finger and that they use poison. More details later! :)

This whole stuff is mainly background info though providing various ways for the PCs to get to Croc Island and explaining why the treasure is there. The actual adventure itself seems very much inspired by the Isle of Dread (which the same author also translated to Norwegian). The cool thing about all the background info is that there is so much potential for further adventures there. Quite cool :)

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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:55 pm

I agree - this is very cool! I could probably have a field day with the Sons of the Serpent. What's most enjoyable about all this is the feeling of excitement - just looking at the map and reading the snippets you've sent make me feel as though we stumbled upon a cache of unpublished TSR modules! :D :D

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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby TraverseTravis » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:12 pm

Havard wrote:The module is 16 pages. I'm at work now, but I should be able to get the general description of the Island translated tonight (CET). :)
Havard


I may be able to help. My Norwegian is as good as my Italian. I am fluent in Nynorsk (or rather effluent), but can't read a word of Bokmål. As a sample, here's a translation of the map text:

Cart I: Isle of the Crocodilians (Refers to the Caymen inhabitants. Caymen refer to their islands as "wagons" or "carts")

Cart-knuckles: (apparently, the author uses a little-known Nynorsk word for "places of interest"-- I translate it literally)
  • Lands-buy (in other words, real-estate offices)
  • Runes (English-speakers would incorrectly assume the Norwegian word "ruin" means "ruin". However, these are what linguits call faux ami.)
  • Fells (that is, "mountains". I use the Northern English dialect word since it is borrowed from Old Norse, and thus cognate with the Norwegian)
  • Vulcan (the lair of the famed Immortal Haephestus)
  • Huleans (a camp of janissaries sent by the Master)
  • Aesir (what business these Norse Immortals have in these parts is one of the mysteries the PCs may solve)
  • Yungle (a Norwegian jungle)
  • Sump (a low space that collects any often-undesirable liquids such as water or chemicals)
  • Elves
  • Coral-reeve (a steward or "reeve" of the corals)
1) Byland (in this sense, it's the name of the town. Evidently the author was inspired by the Hobbit village of "Bywater" in the Shire)
2) Temple-runes
3) Dragon-hole
4) Wracked and Swollen (the names of two shipwrecks)
5) Graf-plaza (the city-square of the Graf of the island. Apparenlty, this dominion has the noble status of a County.)
6) Deep-haven of Ren (Ren is a common name in Norway, along with Sven)


Mole-stock: 1 hex (in the sense of a "curse") = 100m (100 muldvarper or "mouldywarps, moles") (apparently this is reference to the encounter with the Cayman Witch: she demands that the PCs capture a certain number of these harmless burrowing creatures before she'll offer spell-casting services)

Havard, I'm available if you want any more help!

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Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

Postby Havard » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:57 pm

TraverseTravis wrote:
I may be able to help. My Norwegian is as good as my Italian. I am fluent in Nynorsk (or rather effluent), but can't read a word of Bokmål. As a sample, here's a translation of the map text:


Wow Travis I am impressed! I give you an A for effort, but I might have to make a few modifications... :D


Cart I: Isle of the Crocodilians (Refers to the Caymen inhabitants. Caymen refer to their islands as "wagons" or "carts")


Should read: Map I: Crocodile Island. (No Caymen there as far as the module goes)

Cart-knuckles: (apparently, the author uses a little-known Nynorsk word for "places of interest"-- I translate it literally)


Should read: Map symbols/Legend

  • Lands-buy (in other words, real-estate offices)


Village

  • Runes (English-speakers would incorrectly assume the Norwegian word "ruin" means "ruin". However, these are what linguits call faux ami.)


  • Ruins it is.

  • Fells (that is, "mountains". I use the Northern English dialect word since it is borrowed from Old Norse, and thus cognate with the Norwegian)


  • That helps some times! It does indeed mean Mountains.

  • Vulcan (the lair of the famed Immortal Haephestus)


  • Volcano

  • Huleans (a camp of janissaries sent by the Master)


  • Caves

  • Aesir (what business these Norse Immortals have in these parts is one of the mysteries the PCs may solve)


  • Hills (interestingly, the word is identical to the modern word for Aesir. Not sure if there is a connection or not..)

  • Yungle (a Norwegian jungle)


  • Jungle, but a regular one :)

  • Sump (a low space that collects any often-undesirable liquids such as water or chemicals)


  • Swamp.

  • Elves


  • River

  • Coral-reeve (a steward or "reeve" of the corals)


  • Coral reefs.

    1) Byland (in this sense, it's the name of the town. Evidently the author was inspired by the Hobbit village of "Bywater" in the Shire)


    1) Village

    2) Temple-runes


    2) Temple Ruins

    3) Dragon-hole


    3) Dragon Cave (Home of a 16HD Green Dragon)

    4) Wracked and Swollen (the names of two shipwrecks)


    4) Wreck of the Swallow (The Swallow is the ship that was supposed to carry the Treasure to the Known World, but it ship wrecked by the Isle.

    5) Graf-plaza (the city-square of the Graf of the island. Apparenlty, this dominion has the noble status of a County.)


    Good theory! But it means Burial Ground.

    6) Deep-haven of Ren (Ren is a common name in Norway, along with Sven)


    Can't think of a good English word right now, but I think it means the water is deeper and easier to navigate a ship through along that "trail".

    Mole-stock: 1 hex (in the sense of a "curse") = 100m (100 muldvarper or "mouldywarps, moles") (apparently this is reference to the encounter with the Cayman Witch: she demands that the PCs capture a certain number of these harmless burrowing creatures before she'll offer spell-casting services)


    Hahaha! This is hillarious! :)

    Obviously it means Scale.

    Havard, I'm available if you want any more help!


    I'll keep that in mind ;)

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    Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

    Postby Havard » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:00 pm

    Seer of Yhog wrote:I agree - this is very cool! I could probably have a field day with the Sons of the Serpent. What's most enjoyable about all this is the feeling of excitement - just looking at the map and reading the snippets you've sent make me feel as though we stumbled upon a cache of unpublished TSR modules! :D :D


    Glad to hear Im not the only one! :)
    I'm doing NM2 now, but someone also sent me a scan of NM1: Treasure of the Ogre Chieftain so hopefully I will get around to that one later. NM2 is much more professionally made than NM1 though.

    BTW, I can easily see the Sons of the Serpent being tied to the Outer Beings, but I guess you already thought of that right? ;)

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    Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

    Postby Gawain_VIII » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:19 pm

    Havard wrote:BTW, I can easily see the Sons of the Serpent being tied to the Outer Beings, but I guess you already thought of that right? ;)

    What? Geoff having anything to do with OBs, least of all thinking about them... NOT A CHANCE! :mrgreen:

    And Travis, as a rather monolinguistic individual with only a smattering of foreign vocabulary (mostly words and phrases that Ashtagon would require me to censor) I've got to say that your translation is friggin' hilarious!

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    Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

    Postby Chimpman » Wed Nov 19, 2008 5:20 pm

    I agree guys, this is very interesting and I'll be patiently waiting for the translation. The map really brought back memories for me as well. I think I must have spent days looking over the old IOD map (my current copy is pretty flimsy these days ;) ). Anyway, we really appreciate the translation effort Havard!

    If you've taken a look at NM1 already can you tell us if it also has a similarly styled map?
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    Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

    Postby Seer of Yhog » Wed Nov 19, 2008 7:26 pm

    Havard wrote:Can't think of a good English word right now, but I think it means the water is deeper and easier to navigate a ship through along that "trail".


    You could use the word "trench", or better yet, "pass" (def: a navigable channel, as at the mouth or in the delta of a river). This has precedence on the world map of Mystara, which shows the Pass of Cestia. I would therefore believe that the bulk of the waters between Cestia and the mainland are quite dangerous (perhaps because the seafloor is shallow in many places - as it would be, given that a land bridge existed there prior to the GRoF).

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    Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

    Postby TraverseTravis » Wed Nov 19, 2008 8:00 pm

    Thanks for the (minor) corrections Havard. :-)

    Havard wrote:Can't think of a good English word right now, but I think it means the water is deeper and easier to navigate a ship through along that "trail".

    I think "channel" may be fitting. This real-world island has a similar feature: Ebon Atoll

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    Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

    Postby maddog » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:06 pm

    TraverseTravis wrote:This real-world island has a similar feature: Ebon Atoll

    Travis


    I like that map. :) That one could (almost) be used without change in XF1 somewhere. Even the name seems to fit Mystara.

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    Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

    Postby Havard » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:51 am

    Seer of Yhog wrote:
    Havard wrote:Can't think of a good English word right now, but I think it means the water is deeper and easier to navigate a ship through along that "trail".


    You could use the word "trench", or better yet, "pass" (def: a navigable channel, as at the mouth or in the delta of a river). This has precedence on the world map of Mystara, which shows the Pass of Cestia. I would therefore believe that the bulk of the waters between Cestia and the mainland are quite dangerous (perhaps because the seafloor is shallow in many places - as it would be, given that a land bridge existed there prior to the GRoF).


    Thanks! I think trench is closes to the Norwegian word used. :)

    Travis: I agree with Ray, that is a cool map!

    Chimpman: Thanks! NM1 also has a map more or less in this style, but it is much less detailed. It also has several other maps (including dungeon maps) which look much less professional in style. The suggested location for NM1 is in Northern Karameikos.

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    Re: NM2 Treasure of Crocodile Island - Translations (with maps)

    Postby Havard » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:55 am

    Crocodile Island
    Unless the ship has been ran off course, the Ocean Eagle arrives at Crocodile Island in the afternoon. The weather is nice and the sea is calm this day. It is possible to sail up close to the reef, but the captain would prefer to set anchor at some distance and use rowing boats when approaching the island. The landscape is that of a typical tropical island, a coral island consisting of a large reef surrounding a circle shaped lagoon. Crocodile Island is named after the large number of salt water crocodiles living outside the reefs. Should the boat capsize (usually only a risk under stormy weather conditions), 1d6 crocodiles will arrive within 1 minute, followed by another 1d4 crocodiles per minute. Inside the lagoon, there is only a 5% chance of encountering crocodiles, however.

    (Stats for Salt-water crocodiles)

    The Island is formed by corals which through millennia have grown around the crater of a partially submerged dormant volcano. In the middle of the lagoon, a small volcanic island was formed a few centures ago, but other than that, there are no signs of seismic activity. The island is part of a chain of tropical islands with white sandy beaches along most coasts, but with dangerous undersea reefs just off the coasts. Once you get inland from the beach, you will find a region of fertile plant life, huge palm trees, odorous and flower covered bushes, lianas, and tall bamboo trees. The foliage is not as tightly knit as in a true jungle, but some places you have to cut your way through.

    Most coastlines are beaches, but some places, especially on the coasts facing away from the lagoon, there are rough coral cliffs. On the island there are all kinds of palm trees and other tall trees. Edible plants are easy to find. There are coconuts, bananas and breadfruit as well as all kinds of berries and edible roots. There is quite a bit of wildlife on the island as well, especially birds. Some birds may be of value due to their exotic feathers or as unusual pets. There are several species of colourful parrots and also a kind of flightless seabird somewhat resembling penguins, only smaller and with brown and gray stripes. The natives call this bird tu’aro and say it tastes good. Also, there is an abundance of fish both inside the lagoon and outside the reefs.

    The coral island is divided by several channels, giving access to the lagoon inside, but these are filled with underwater reefs which make it impossible to navigate a larger ship inside. For the same reason, ships cannot move to close to the outer coasts of Crocodile Island as well. However, these reefs do not prevent all communication with the island. Smaller boats or canoes, such as the natives use can navigate across the reefs. Also, a trench runs all the way into the lagoon, and this is where the Swallow navigated seeking shelter one stormy night, two years ago. The ship had already been damaged by the storm when it sighted the island. Fortunately, the ship’s first mate had been part of a previous expedition to the island and knew about the trench. In spite of this the ship was still damaged by the reefs and sunk soon after it had entered the lagoon.

    1) Fisherman’s village
    There is a small tribe of fishermen living on Crocodile Island. They call their village Roatana, and their tribe the Roa-Hano people. There are about 75 people in Roatana, making a living from fishing and a bit of farming as well as gathering edible plants from the island. They fish using nets inside the lagoon and from canoes at sea. Any Roa-Hano is intimately familiar with the waters surrounding the island, including the whereabouts of underwater reefs. The people here are quite isolated, but are able to get to neighbouring islands in their canoes. Some of the younger villagers go diving inside the lagoon for recreation or looking for pearls or fish. Some of them might be able to help searching for the wreck of the Swallow. However, most will be reluctant to do so because the area where the Swallow sank is rumoured to be the home of a giant squid. Also, this is in the middle of the fishing season, so unless the adventurers are willing to pay with valuable items, they are unlikely to get any help. The villagers will not be interested in shiny buttons or pearls and they have no use for money. Weapons, tools, jewellery or items made of precious metals are things that might be used for trade.

    The villagers are friendly though, and if the adventurers get along with them, they will be invited to parties (and perhaps be wed to the chieftain’s daughter). Talking to the villagers, they will tell you that a few places on the island are taboo: The volcanic island, the shadow mountains and the burial grounds. The natives refuse to give any information about these places. As long as they don’t cause any trouble, the PCs will be able to visit the two former locations without consequences. Should they on the other hand desecrate the burial ground the natives will become very angry. All hospitality will be gone and the PCs will be asked to pack up and leave. If the PCs ignore this, they will be met with all kinds of harassment, theft of possessions, etc… and eventually war. The village will be able to summon 30 armed men.

    ***

    Notes: Okay, that's all for now. This is right in the middle of the adventure, but I figured it makes more sense to do this now since LordJuss is working on the Thanegioth Gaz and the information earlier in the module isn't really relevant for that. I will get back to it later though. I appologize for any typos and poor language that may have snuck in. It is way past my bedtime. Hope you guys find this useful! :)

    Havard

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