The Great Pass

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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Argentmantle » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:02 am

Robin wrote:3 map of the ruined city of Kiljian (The Ruins Kiljian was erected upon
http://i.livescience.com/images/i/000/036/431/original/sedeinga-pyramids-1.jpg?1360161752) Here I may need some help.


So, I tossed together a quick working idea for the map...

The original image.
Image

I twisted the perspective of the image a bit to get a better 'angle' for creating a map.

Image

And I tossed down some basic shapes, a few layers for the textures of the terrain, and this is what we ended up with.

Image

People's thoughts?
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby julius_cleaver » Thu Jun 25, 2015 4:57 am

Nice...though this is Robin's project, so obviously she is the person that needs to okay it.

Are you using Adobe with that image? Or something that will allow you to possibly render things in 3D?
It's about as gothic as you can get with anthropomorphic beavers.

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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Argentmantle » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:43 am

Yeah... Photoshop. Some 3d capability there. I have Blender but dont use it as often.
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:32 pm

Nice work ;)
extremely fast too... :o
Since we spoke yesterday late :shock:

yet ...sorry :( ....I hate to say this :oops:
I don't want to be too strict or restricting

It has twisted the shapes a bit...all stone stuctures are originally square...(oltec design pyramid-like but then without upper level---these have eroded away or reused in the today village Kilijan.) I would stretch the lower part thus to make the rectangles squares.

And...............it is a map of the ruins (before 499 AC)of the earlier village , not one of the village build upon it based on it that became ruined again.
Amhua-Nuahua Meektic-Pictac was an ancient Oltec village and was destroyed by the Azcan-Oltec Wars in 3001 BC. In 3000 BC the Great Rain of Fire buried most of the city. In the next centuries nature took its course; Erosion, flooding, animal and monster infestation, all took their turn to destroy the beauty of the village. Until 499 AC; with dwarven and gnome help, there was a new village erected upon and from the large rectangular structures remaining...named Kiljian
Thus being the today (1000AC) version lets say...(even when it was created in 499 AC, ransacked, and destroyed 927 AC-990AC)

It would be greener due the alpine meadows, all the stone structures would be used for foundations of today structures. Thus all the indentations from earlier older wooden structures would be gone. Streets would traverse between the structures
Some newer structures would be existent, maybe filling in the corner of the L shape...although that does not need to be...maybe this area was more logically some farmland..goats, produce etc.

For size referencing...the large square shape (in the upper right pasrt of the village) is 150'x150' .....this is where the gnomes had their Great Hall of Creation, and the other largest shape would have been the town hall 180'x 180'.
Other functions aren't set as of yet.
The Kiljian earlier population (a mixture of Gnomes and humans ..with a minor input by stone giants and dwarves) were mostly miners (especially diamonds, coal and stone....the area has great deposits of Limestone from far before the Great Rain of Fire), and farmers.


Then I need a future version too...a sort of New Kiljian so to say.. with new structures instead of ruins. the population is Gnome, Dwarf, Human, Stone Giant. It would be double the size, but many older (today) structures woukd still be visible . A great stucture for the ruling Council needs to be, structures for the council of registation and discovery and use of earlier and future inventions--short Radufi, ambassies for Stone Giant, Dwarf, Darokin, Slagovich, Kyurdukistan, Grouzhina, and even Hule etc. workplaces, housing and shops and warehouses and..even some factories which can be larger as even giants will work there..

In effect it would become a strange multicultural semi-technological (with the use of magic) mishmash of city...somewhat similar to 1850 europe but then with lots of gnome contraptions, magic and giants, kobolds and other races.
Somewhat steampunkish like this http://img03.deviantart.net/6205/i/2013/127/7/d/steampunk_by_cuber-d64id42.jpg
http://media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/89/eb/02/89eb02abda9fb8e5f5186785c95e079c.jpg
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Thu Jun 25, 2015 12:42 pm

seeing the original picture a second time I must say MOST structures are square..there are a few rectangular ones.
So simply stretching the lower section probaly would work like it should...
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Argentmantle » Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:07 pm

Alright... this time I know I got the perspective right.

Step 1... the original photograph.
Image

Step 2... correcting for angle.
Image

Step 3... blocking out the structures.
Image

Step 4... building the walls.
Image

Step 5... Adding the downsloped areas.
Image

Step 6... Adding the color masks.
Image

Step 7... I hate pretty buildings, so applying a technique to 'ruin' them.
Image

Step 8... because everybody likes snow.
Image
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:02 pm

great work argentmantle
any differences between the old ruins from the picture and this new ruined village are logical; environmental, erosion, new ideas, worn down foundations....great
go on like this...

you must just add some medieval roads and other details
and some extra medieval additional buildings of wood and/or stone..maybe a forgotten farm nearby

north is the upper left corner
the main road... actually now a welltrodden trail...since the master's army passed.... is coming from the east going nw according my main map lies many miles more north, and the old abbey is to the west as are the mountains. the nearby river goes south of the village, ...maybe just of this map...from west to east...
There is a SW road to the mines, an Nw-N road to the Abbey and the Great Pass. There should have been an eastern road, out of clear logic and laziness of all existing creatures leading to the east. All these roads are way less well trodden an mostlikely overgrown by plants or covered by sand, snow and similar

mmaybe some sparse pines in the east?
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby julius_cleaver » Sun Jul 05, 2015 3:43 pm

Just a quick update...having been sidetrack by life and other online things...I promise I will get my Great Waste maps and floor plans of Master's Fist/Şeytan pençesi and Kapycöl Kale up by this coming Sunday Robin and Carillion.

ALSO: Robin, is there a link besides the tiny pictures site, where we can view the mini-gaz at full size?
I did look at your blog to see if you put it up there.
It's about as gothic as you can get with anthropomorphic beavers.

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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Argentmantle » Sun Jul 05, 2015 5:57 pm

Robin wrote:great work argentmantle
any differences between the old ruins from the picture and this new ruined village are logical; environmental, erosion, new ideas, worn down foundations....great
go on like this...

you must just add some medieval roads and other details
and some extra medieval additional buildings of wood and/or stone..maybe a forgotten farm nearby

north is the upper left corner
the main road... actually now a welltrodden trail...since the master's army passed.... is coming from the east going nw according my main map,, and the old abbey is to the west as are the mountains. the nearby river goes south of the village, ...maybe just of this map...from west to east...2130 to 1545 as seen by clock

mmaybe some sparse pines in the east?


As a reference, I'm putting up the clearest satellite image I could find of the ruins. This gives a pretty good perspective...

Image
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:48 pm

Great Find...
Together with the first picture it should not be overly difficult to make a similar yet better map.

Can you tilt the image so our directional north is pointing up again?

I used my feeble skills with paint to add some toads, riiver, compass
http://sta.sh/0m75kmh13yn

as given in ther mini map on the large map (on the bottom rim) this trail/road is being used again from arbortor to Kiljian and the east trail in 1020AC

http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/art/The-Great-Pass-1-Mile-hex-map-528313953
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Argentmantle » Mon Jul 06, 2015 1:27 am

Well, the good news... the map I put together matches the satellite map pretty much on.

Image

So, I added some old roads, ruined market place, river, pine forest, broke up the ledge a bit, and I added a farm to the North. (i.e. concurrent with the ruined Gnomish city).

Image

Unluckily, there is no way to rotate the map to have the top be north.
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Mon Jul 06, 2015 11:10 am

Excellent we slowly getting there

I succeeded to turn it by use of Paintshoppro

http://sta.sh/014n99egj1sa

now you have just to fill in the blanc areas :o :lol: :P

the farm is good, more may be there along the northern road.also ruined of course
the trees are however more sparse and more east

the ledge...very good

now we have to place some ruined/burned wooden structures between the stone ones
and decide what what is.
we have the main hall and work place already
the large square shape with cross (in the right part of the village) is 150'x150' .....this is where the gnomes had their Great Hall of Creation, and the other largest shape would have been the town hall 180'x 180'.(with cross and circle)

a waterwheel mill would ...gnomes logic knowing.... be at the river somewhere
since the mines are SW and the woods are East, the temple is N to NW
this would also simplify usage of buildings.

this village had no outer walls originally, but as the plunderers were attacking over a longer period, ccoming from the north, some defensive measures would have been used..a watchtower, a ditch some blockade...all bypassed and probably burned
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Mon Jul 06, 2015 7:12 pm

I've expanded the map a bit so Argentmantle can further work on it
http://sta.sh/01h3kt9ff55d
or including the mill, some farms and grape hill firvwine and the paths to the mines
http://sta.sh/0141zkiveoq0

it a base to work from
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby julius_cleaver » Wed Jul 08, 2015 2:47 am

Hey Robin...did you see my request as far as a link for a "full size" version of your Gaz, besides the ones on tinypics?
It's about as gothic as you can get with anthropomorphic beavers.

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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Wed Jul 08, 2015 4:08 pm

julius_cleaver wrote:Hey Robin...did you see my request as far as a link for a "full size" version of your Gaz, besides the ones on tinypics?



Sorry didn't sse it

As I said earlier;
Thanx, very interesting. Then you should also email me on my private mail, so I can show you a prelude of the Great Pass Gazetteer as it is of now...

Because it isn't ready yet, lots o'stuff to be added, proofreading, layout, ....so enough to do.
So if you really can and want to help just pm me.

i am also awaiting your maps of the master's fist construction

So far it looks like this fangazetteer will be as big as an original one...and it isn't even ready yet
drat.... what have I done....


i am currently working on the politcal structure... as far as I can ...and know of politics...which isn't much...
and i am on the drawing of the Friendly Fungus
but more keeps bubbling up from the dungeons of my mind...adventure ideas, future of the region, NPC's, gnomisdh inventions, secrets of the library, etc...


apparently my twisted DM mind has more duingeon levels than neven I imagined before...

now hope my body doesn't falter again...so i go slow and steady
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby julius_cleaver » Thu Jul 09, 2015 1:10 am

When I was younger, I would come up with these complex government entities, that either were modeled after modern day governments, or just really didn't make sense.

Now that I am older, and have a greater knowledge of mercantile and earlier governments and such, my ideas make much more sense.

But the biggest "advantage" I have found it just thinking about all political entities and people/races involved, and thinking to myself; what is it they really want, and how might they go about getting it? Then trying to find a government/governmental system that might work with all the present parties.

The other thing is...obviously these entities have come into existence or have existed for some time based on copasetic conditions and offsetting and even/equal power bases. If these didn't exist, the status quo would have eventually fallen in favor of a more powerful entity.

But much of this is "common sense". The trick is figuring out how it fits into local politics...
It's about as gothic as you can get with anthropomorphic beavers.

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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:17 pm

:shock: Ok trying to walk across the political tightrope. :?
Help :o
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:53 pm

Sofar I came up with the Following...

I think a racial needs based party and voting system would be the most logical.(giants and dragons need more food and hence more land to grow, and rely more upon other sources, than most other races). To divide the land and food and other neccesities equally they have a percentage number based upon these needs.
And this number is the same as their political influence.
Currently land is not an issue, as is the growth of food or water.

So a lot of counting and calculating
The Democratic Republic of Dulbagir in numbers.
Area in square miles Hexes falling under the Republic.
Mountain 1376 of which are 259 Stone Giant Hatching Tunnels
Snow-ice capped mountain (including topridges) 2961
Total Mountains 4337 of which are 45 Cloud Giant
Glaciers and ice fields 403 of which are 65 Arkham Glacier Frost Giants
Desert (all types) 218
Total Wilderness 4958

Valleys 77 of which are 29 Snowplanes (Bel-Ek-Witznay)
11 (Gnomes),
29 (Cyclops),

8 Red Dragon

Broken Lands (mainly Crater) 40 of which are 38 Gnomes & Dwarves

Alpine Meadows, Hills 5840 of which are 1024 Kobolds

1450 Gnomes & Dwarves

6 Robbers
8 Seytan Pencesi + Old Fortress Undead

Forested Hills 2880 of which are 66 Hsiaou
1507 Gnomes & Dwarves

21 Trolls

Total Rural 8837
Underground
Great Pass Underground 124 of which are 34 Geonid
8 Spiders
53 Grey Myconid

21 of which are 20 Stone Giant Living Cave

Snow Planes underground 280 of which are 231 Bel-Ek Witznay

49 Earth Elementals

The Long Ways 7 of which are 4 Red Myconid
3 Yellow Myconid
Total Underground Rural 432
Catacombs 26
of which are 21 Undead
Total Underground wilderness 26
Total All areas 18353
5843 of which are 1168 Positive in Future
of which are 56 Negative
of which are 3342 Positive
of which are 287 Off Limits due to agreements
of which are 5843 total used
of which are 12510 neutral =not used yet

Ethnic groups as current 1020 AC:
Total population; 93.781 inhabitants of different race wich is equal to a humanbased nation based upon needs of 108.826
Gnome 25568 = needs x 1 = 25568 = 23.5%
Stone Giant 4464 = needs x3 = 13392 = 12.3%
Geonid 18272 = needs x1 = 18272 = 16.8%
Myconid 10957 = needs x1 = 10957 = 10.1%
Cloud Giant 92 = needs x12 = 1104 = 1.0%
Mountain Giant 61 = needs x12 = 732 = 0.7%
Kobold 2435 = needs x1 = 2435 = 2.2%
Frost Giant 163 = needs x6 = 978 = 0.9%
Dwarf 1218 = needs x1 = 1218 = 1.1%
Cyclops 406 = needs x3 = 2217 = 1.1%
Centaurs 405 = needs x3 = 2217 =1.1%
Hulean origin 110 = needs x1 = 110 = 0.1%
Sindian origin 2740 = needs x1 = 2740 = 2.5%
Bel-Ek-Witznay 21914 = needs x1 = 21914 = 20.2%
Other origin 2435 = needs x1 = 2435 = 2.2%
(Human total 30436 = needs x1 = 30436 = 28.0% )
Lupin 1201 = needs x1 = 2101 = 1.9%
Rakasta 1206 = needs x1 = 1206 = 1.1%
Hsiaou 305 = needs x 2 = 609 = 0.6%
Dragon 31 = needs x 20 = 620 = 0.6%


Racial Consul (I decided to call these representatives "Consul", which seems to me the most logical and gives a more unfamiliar fel, instead of "Senator")
Chambers of Consul ; A sort of Senate
Speaker/Voice of Dulbagir; A sort of President.
Voice of Consul; A sort of racial representative of the consuls in Chambers of Consul
Outside Voice;A sort of racial representative of the Embassies in Chambers of Consul

We have several races and thus we need several Consuls.The number of Voices in this Consul are based upon the actual percentage of needs of that race in the nation.
1 Consul of Greater Giants (Cloud-, Mountain-, and later the Frost Giants too). 2 (3 later), Voices; 1.0+0.7+0.9=2.6=3
2 Consul of Smaller Giants (Stone-, and Cyclops) 3, Voices;12.3+1.1=12.4=12
3 Consul of Geonids 3, Voices;16.8=17
4 Consul of Myconids (Red, Yellow and Grey) 3, Voices;10.1=10
5 Consul of Kobolds (Three Tribes) 4, Voices;2.2=2
6 Consul of Centaurs and Hsiaou 1, Voices;1.1+0.6=1.7=2
7 Consul of Bel-Ek-Witznay 2, Voices;20.2=20
8 Consul of Dragons 1, Voices;0.6=1
9 Consul of Humans, Lupin, Rakasta 3, Voices;7.8+1.9+1.1=10.8=11
10 Consul of Gnomes and Dwarves 4, Voices; 23.5+1.1=24.6=25

Each of these consuls has as many voices in Chambers as their percentage (round up to a minimum of 1). The number given is the amount of people working for the consul.Only one speaks as a voice in the Chambers.

Consuls are chosen by their race and the overall population. Voices are chosen by the members of that consul, the president and chambers main persons (5= Merchantile, Political, Financial, Economical, Militairy) are chosen by the voices. Total of voices in the chamber after rounding up;104.

Then there will be the following Embassies
These will NOT have any direct political influence, but may have indirect influences instead.
Each Embassy may introduce a single Outside Voice. All these Outside Voices will only be taken into account when their are ties on decisions. There are thus 7 Outside Voices.Each Embassy decides how and who will be their Outside Voice and what this Outside Voice proclaims, but once said it is final.

Embassy of Hule
1 ambassador, 7 crew, 15 safety. Strongly opposed to the nation, but neutral to its commerce.
Embassy of Graakhallia
2 ambassadors (1 Elf, 1 Gnoll), 8 crew, 10 safety. Neutral positive to the nation and commerce.
Embassy of Sind
1 Ambassador, 15 crew, 20 Safety Strongly Positive to the Nation and its commerce.
Embassy of Darokin and the Known World
3 ambassadors (Darokin, Rockhome, Thyatis), 30 crew, 15 safety. Strongly positive to the nation and its commerce.
Embassy of Northern states
3 ambassadors (Grouzhina, Kyurdukystan, Dvinzina sofar), 11+25+11 crew, 25 safety. Neutral to the nation, positive to the commerce.
Embassy of the Citystates
4 ambassadors (sofar), 20 crew, 20 safety, Neutral inclined to the nation and its commerce.
Embassy of Serraine
1 ambassador, 3 crew, 2 safety. Strongly positive to the nation and its commerce.
Will have contact with most other Gnomish nations and locations.
Last edited by Robin on Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:12 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Fri Jul 10, 2015 3:57 pm

it is only a beginning... so any input is more than welcome...so please do :D
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby julius_cleaver » Sat Jul 11, 2015 8:13 am

I'll see what I can come up with... :mrgreen:
It's about as gothic as you can get with anthropomorphic beavers.

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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Sat Jul 11, 2015 3:20 pm

julius_cleaver wrote:I'll see what I can come up with... :mrgreen:

you're welcome...
i'd like if you follow what i proposed sofar...or if it is totally ridiculus..just propose...and we;ll see how far we come with that..
i'm not a politician... so this is all new to me.
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Carillion » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:41 pm

Hello Robin

Thanks for your comments and apologies for the delay in getting back to you, RL has been a bit busy recently!

It looks like there is now only one point that might require further work from me. Looking at your map which was published in Threshold magazine (Issue 7, Page 215), Lake Ishi is about 16 miles north of the nearly town of Djukhra, which is also what is shown on my map. Therefore, if Lake Ishi should now be positioned about 50 miles north from where it currently is shown on my map as you suggest (on the spur north of the one it's currently situated on), it will then be about 70 miles north of Djukhra, while it is only about 16 miles north of Dhukhra on your map.

Therefore, I'm not sure there is a lot I can do at the moment to correct this, as wherever I put the lake won't address what looks like a difference in the positioning of the nearby mountains between your map and Christian's. I've done the best compromise I can come up with at the moment, but if you've got any suggestions in order to resolve this, then please let me know!
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Fri Jul 17, 2015 2:21 pm

Carillion wrote:Hello Robin

Thanks for your comments and apologies for the delay in getting back to you, RL has been a bit busy recently!

It looks like there is now only one point that might require further work from me. Looking at your map which was published in Threshold magazine (Issue 7, Page 215), Lake Ishi is about 16 miles north of the nearly town of Djukhra, which is also what is shown on my map. Therefore, if Lake Ishi should now be positioned about 50 miles north from where it currently is shown on my map as you suggest (on the spur north of the one it's currently situated on), it will then be about 70 miles north of Djukhra, while it is only about 16 miles north of Dhukhra on your map.

Therefore, I'm not sure there is a lot I can do at the moment to correct this, as wherever I put the lake won't address what looks like a difference in the positioning of the nearby mountains between your map and Christian's. I've done the best compromise I can come up with at the moment, but if you've got any suggestions in order to resolve this, then please let me know!



Here too, RL sucks... that's why I react a bit late.

Looking at your reasoning, the map and both maps seperate and together I can agree only, yet there seems to be somewhat of a discrepancy... after some cutting/pasting/overlapping I found what the problem is

At first Lake Ishi is bigger (or actually was bigger as it broke down) than what you did
Secondly there are a few more mountains...in which the lake lies
Third the river has a somewhat different trajectory ,...along the mountain ..instead straight into the valley

http://sta.sh/0ehed1luh9j

Here you can see what I mean.
With this solution only a few hexes need to be redrawn.
The river and the bridge are thus placed a bit more East than on your map, (making the location of the small village Illishian more logical, along the trail E, N, W).

another good point; a future version of your map, after the grouzhina flood date would make the ishi areas just two bare hill hexes. nature would rapidly overgrow the wet slippery former lake underground. making it a strange valley.(future version after 12-5-1004 AC also added)

Hope this helps
With Kind regards and respect for further your awesome map
Robin
Last edited by Robin on Wed Jul 22, 2015 11:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Carillion » Tue Jul 21, 2015 8:06 pm

Thanks for that, Robin - it's very helpful.

I'll have another look when I've got a bit more time, but at first glance, that looks like a very good compromise between the different maps!
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Re: The Great Pass

Postby Robin » Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:28 pm

My current Idea is using former and existing political figures as characters for the Republic of Dulbagir.
With the Help of Argentmantle they have been realised. More will come up.

Winstone Chillhill; . The voice of the Stone Giants. (aka Winston Churchil of Former UK)https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-lAtUHYFhFIA/VcTp4KXP7LI/AAAAAAAAe6U/NaaZEe2QMCU/w162-h227-no/churchill-2.jpg
Vlutin, Voice of the Frost Giants; (aka Putin of Russia) https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=6657eb73c4&view=fimg&th=14ecfddf0cd86085&attid=0.1&disp=inline&realattid=ii_14ecfddb724ebf56&safe=1&attbid=ANGjdJ_lOMAaYO6GGgnzMMbePmVIFT2sbCIFub_z58A1GvRbV1nWMyRrCsR3psfOC_CT_-YhI5NJBwBonGm6vF4Xd71aCIvgcZfVnJdTYIhxN3JDYB3asAnkx_nMJxY&ats=1440692349291&rm=14ecfddf0cd86085&zw&sz=w1128-h639
Franko Kolland; Voice of the Kobolds (aka Francois Hollande of France)(no altered picture as of yet)
Gert the Wilde will be the Ambassador of Hule.(aka geert wilders..dutch rightextremist)(no altered picture as of yet)
Merkula the Angel wiil be the Voice of Gnomes(aka Angela Merkel of Germany)(no altered picture as of yet)
Markus Ruttius will be the Darokinian/Thyatian human Voice (aka Mark Rutte of the Netherlands)(no altered picture as of yet)

as said more will come up...
if any of you has ideas.. the list of voices is written earlier.
so let me know,

if you are good at morphing pictures between two picture examples, please help... :oops: :shock: :o :lol:

i'll dig some deeper in the politics...not particularly my loved issue, but... I have to finish it.

Any help or ideas will do fine
My Deviantart page; http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/ For Mystara hexmaps and Fantasy art (to see all fantasy art; enter and declare you are an adult...frigging exposure rules)
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