1 Mile Hex Mapping

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Zendrolion
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Zendrolion » Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:19 pm

Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:57 pm
When the Crimpshrine departs Kelvin, it moves swiftly south down Hillfollow/Shutterga River for two hours traveling 4mph before it slows to pass under the massive drawbridge which links the northern and southern segments of the King's Road. Three hours after it departed, the riverboat makes a sharp turn to the northeast to take it up the Castellan River to Seragrad. Going upstream its speed slows to 3mph and it travels some thirty miles upriver over the course of the day.
This section of the adventure seems somewhat off. It suggests the departure is on the Highforge area ( as seen by the distance covered is 8 miles) yet this is an empty region. At 16 miles nort of Kelvin is Dwallar which could be used instead as starting location then the downstream speed would be 8 mph instead 4. This also a more reasonable speed downstream when reflecting to the 3 miles upstream
Remember that in GAZ1 and derived maps (KKoA, Dungeon #59, etc.) Kelvin is wrongly placed, so it's actually found one 8mph north of the Volaga-Shuttarga junction and not on it (as the city detail map in GAZ1 instead correctly shows). So I'd ignore altogether the fact that the Crimpshrine starts on the Shuttarga. The adventure has it start in Kelvin, and that's all; the little description of what the boat does before reaching Kelvin is useless to the adventure, so I'd ignore it because it originates from a repeated mistake.
Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:57 pm
Secondly the bridge mentioned does not connect the North/south, but east/west sides of the river.
Well, don't be so harsh on the author! :lol: After all Kelvin divides the King's/Duke's Road in two segments, one going south to Speculaurm and one going north (ok, northeast) to Selenica.
Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:57 pm
Thirdly. this bridge seems not to be a drawbridge, but according the illustrations of KKoA a solid stone bridge. It could have a central drawbridge section though, outside the view in the art.
The central drawbridge seems the only reasonable explaination. It also makes sense because IIRC sailing boats carrying elven guards from Specularum are said to sail the river heading to Threshold in the Expert Set description (but I have to check).
Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:57 pm
--I simply feel the suggested location along the Sutterga as per Sturm's map seems most reasonable as it is literally on the edge of the Hill demarkation. It also fits the bill as the Shutterga is much wider and deeper than the Volaga, which is slow but wider downstream from Sielo's fort, and faster and smaller upstream. The only problem lies in the Gnomish settlement of Dwallar on the west shore, which should have been noticed, yet maybe the width of the river and the rain did prevent that.
I'd rather preserve the adventure setting than a terrain feature; a hobgoblin army that near to Highforge, an isolated village which sits on a major river and paved road. All in all, I can't see the benefits of this location apart from some minor terrain easiness.

Also note that, going with GAZ1, it's some Callarii clans and not gnomes living in the forested hill stretch of land between the Windrush and Shuttarga rivers, miles south of Highforge (GAZ1, page 6, "Callarii Lands" paragraph). Maybe there could be a couple of gnomish settlements (like the gnomes' ferry of B10) on the river banks, but the interior should harbor elves (and feature forested hills).
Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:57 pm
--There is but one solution on the Volaga suggestion and that is that Guido's Fort and Sielo's Fort are the same, and the location of the Hill is the high plateaux of B10, and the Temple of the Dark Triad with the Hobgoblins is located somewhat deeper on the plateaux hill. This seems to fit the assumed empty shores below Guido's/Sielo's fort as most settlements are somewhat of the shore(and could be unnoticed, especially in bad weather), and the moor is wide and empty. It is used to transport logs as per B10 and Logic by flow alone to Kelvin (as per B10/Crimpshire adventure).
When looking at this I think the author of the Haven B1-9 fitt-in section might have looked upon the B10 map and might have misread Sielo for Guido.
Note that canonwise the two settlements are called Sielo (B10, placed) and Guido's Fort (B5, unplaced); the identification of Sielo with Guido's Fort comes from the fanon campaign of S.B. Wilson, hence "Sielo's Fort". In B10 Sielo is a simple "lumber camp" the size of Sukiskyn, so it's unlike it's the same fortified trading post of B5 - even if we came up with some explaination for the double name. Then you could add another village (Guido's Fort) between Bywater and Seragrad, but it would mess further with the setting of B10 - I could imagine that the Iron Ring, searching the whole area for the Hutaakan tapestry, has razed the smaller settlements before moving a larger goblin army against Guido's Fort and Seragrad. The upper Volaga proposal I made in the previous post is still by best choice from a setting point of view (maybe not so terrain-wise).
Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:57 pm
This extreme width furthers my idea the river Shrill is indeed an exiting Vortex river from Dreamlands. For in rain, especially heavy no sides are visible...thus camouflaging the fact it is a vortex tunnel
But the map features the Hill, and Guido's Fort is on the opposite side of the river (not shown), so if this stragely wide part of the river is in the Dreamlands, then the Fort is found there as well... I'd rather admit the other side of the river has not been drawed on the map (hence we can put it at the width we prefer), or that the scale is simply off (think of DDA1's Coliseum).

Another side note: years ago (before even the time of Threshold #1 :o ) I posted on the forum a list of Thyatian noble families I used in my Karameikos campaign, with indication of a general area where I had placed their lands. I see in later fan works (like Sturm's map and agathokles' Lords of the Cruth Lowlands campaign) their names have been used to name villages here and there on the map; apart from their precise locations, which are obviously different from the ones I used (since I never posted a map, Sturm could not know their precise placement), these are family, not settlement names. So if you need the names of the settlements rules by these families for the map labels, I can provide them. ;)
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causes of their victories and defeats, so as to avoid the defeats and imitate the victories" N. Machiavelli, The Prince, XIV, 5

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:07 pm

Zendrolion wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:19 pm
Remember that in GAZ1 and derived maps (KKoA, Dungeon #59, etc.) Kelvin is wrongly placed, so it's actually found one 8mph north of the Volaga-Shuttarga junction and not on it (as the city detail map in GAZ1 instead correctly shows). So I'd ignore altogether the fact that the Crimpshrine starts on the Shuttarga. The adventure has it start in Kelvin, and that's all; the little description of what the boat does before reaching Kelvin is useless to the adventure, so I'd ignore it because it originates from a repeated mistake.
I have Kelvin as located originally on B10/X1 , which are the oldest most precise canon sources. I agree the Gaz1 later maps shifted the rivers and locations severely. In a gaming sense I agree to your use of the description. In a mapping sense not completely, as described seems off.
Zendrolion wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:19 pm
Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:57 pm
Secondly the bridge mentioned does not connect the North/south, but east/west sides of the river.
Well, don't be so harsh on the author! :lol: After all Kelvin divides the King's/Duke's Road in two segments, one going south to Speculaurm and one going north (ok, northeast) to Selenica.
Me harsh?? :o :P lol. a flaw is a flaw. Everything becomes clear the further I go with the map.
Zendrolion wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:19 pm
Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 3:57 pm
Thirdly. this bridge seems not to be a drawbridge, but according the illustrations of KKoA a solid stone bridge. It could have a central drawbridge section though, outside the view in the art.
The central drawbridge seems the only reasonable explaination. It also makes sense because IIRC sailing boats carrying elven guards from Specularum are said to sail the river heading to Threshold in the Expert Set description (but I have to check).
I agree. In the description (done later I will add this
Zendrolion wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:19 pm
I'd rather preserve the adventure setting than a terrain feature; a hobgoblin army that near to Highforge, an isolated village which sits on a major river and paved road. All in all, I can't see the benefits of this location apart from some minor terrain easiness.

Also note that, going with GAZ1, it's some Callarii clans and not gnomes living in the forested hill stretch of land between the Windrush and Shuttarga rivers, miles south of Highforge (GAZ1, page 6, "Callarii Lands" paragraph). Maybe there could be a couple of gnomish settlements (like the gnomes' ferry of B10) on the river banks, but the interior should harbor elves (and feature forested hills).
Sure?? As far as I read the Callarii live south of the Widrush and Volaga on both sides of the Volaga going to Specularum/Mirros and Main Road. Highforge is the Gnomish Kingdom located in the Hills between the windrush and Shutterga. Either you or I must be mistaken
Zendrolion wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:19 pm
Note that canonwise the two settlements are called Sielo (B10, placed) and Guido's Fort (B5, unplaced); the identification of Sielo with Guido's Fort comes from the fanon campaign of S.B. Wilson, hence "Sielo's Fort". In B10 Sielo is a simple "lumber camp" the size of Sukiskyn, so it's unlike it's the same fortified trading post of B5 - even if we came up with some explaination for the double name. Then you could add another village (Guido's Fort) between Bywater and Seragrad, but it would mess further with the setting of B10 - I could imagine that the Iron Ring, searching the whole area for the Hutaakan tapestry, has razed the smaller settlements before moving a larger goblin army against Guido's Fort and Seragrad. The upper Volaga proposal I made in the previous post is still by best choice from a setting point of view (maybe not so terrain-wise).
I already thought so but became more unsure . (btw your link does not lead somewhere for me). as so Sielo I fully agree.
The location of Guido's fort yet does not conform the
some distance nort of Kelvin
if placed anywhw=ere on the Volaga. So I think I will go with my earlier suggestion, yet add a magical symbol where the Shrill Vortex river exits (and maybe even allows access under the right circumstances) and add this to the description.
Zendrolion wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:19 pm
But the map features the Hill, and Guido's Fort is on the opposite side of the river (not shown), so if this stragely wide part of the river is in the Dreamlands, then the Fort is found there as well... I'd rather admit the other side of the river has not been drawed on the map (hence we can put it at the width we prefer), or that the scale is simply off (think of DDA1's Coliseum).
The exit of the Shrill (and thus the Reason for the Guido's fort inhabitants naming the river Shutterga thus is a few miles upstream. The passage from Vortex Shrill to the Shutterga-Shrill is unnoticed and fluid.
Zendrolion wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:19 pm
Another side note: years ago (before even the time of Threshold #1 :o ) I posted on the forum a list of Thyatian noble families I used in my Karameikos campaign, with indication of a general area where I had placed their lands. I see in later fan works (like Sturm's map and agathokles' Lords of the Cruth Lowlands campaign) their names have been used to name villages here and there on the map; apart from their precise locations, which are obviously different from the ones I used (since I never posted a map, Sturm could not know their precise placement), these are family, not settlement names. So if you need the names of the settlements rules by these families for the map labels, I can provide them. ;)
YES YES YES. Please. Then I can adjust these on time (and on the Dymrak map) for the next Threshold. As this is where all locations are described. So again...YES YES YES. these are more than welcome. even if the number of settlements needing to be renamed is limited, it will add to the correctness of the map and the information. As till now I relied on the awesome help of Sturm thus far, yet if the naming is flawed, It should be corrected.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Zendrolion » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:16 pm

Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:07 pm
Zendrolion wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 5:19 pm
Also note that, going with GAZ1, it's some Callarii clans and not gnomes living in the forested hill stretch of land between the Windrush and Shuttarga rivers, miles south of Highforge (GAZ1, page 6, "Callarii Lands" paragraph). Maybe there could be a couple of gnomish settlements (like the gnomes' ferry of B10) on the river banks, but the interior should harbor elves (and feature forested hills).
Sure?? As far as I read the Callarii live south of the Widrush and Volaga on both sides of the Volaga going to Specularum/Mirros and Main Road. Highforge is the Gnomish Kingdom located in the Hills between the windrush and Shutterga. Either you or I must be mistaken
Well, I suppose there are not many different interpretations of this (GAZ1, page 6):

The Callarii elves live in the central forests east and west of Kelvin and in the forested foothills south of the gnomish community.

That's why in my Karameikos articles in Threshold #1 I kept the southern border of the Kingdom of Highforge one and half 8mph north of the Windrush-Shuttarga river junction - south of it there are forests and some elven clans.
Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:07 pm
(btw your link does not lead somewhere for me).
This one should lead to the right spot. ;)
Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:07 pm
The location of Guido's fort yet does not conform the
some distance nort of Kelvin
if placed anywhw=ere on the Volaga. So I think I will go with my earlier suggestion, yet add a magical symbol where the Shrill Vortex river exits (and maybe even allows access under the right circumstances) and add this to the description.
I have not anything else to add about this, but I'd only reiterate that nowhere canon says that Guido's Fort is "north of Kelvin", only upriver from the city. "Upriver" can be in any direction, Volaga included, and there are tracts of both the Volaga and the Castellan flowing in north-south direction which allow a placement of B5 area map.
Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 6:07 pm
YES YES YES. Please. Then I can adjust these on time (and on the Dymrak map) for the next Threshold. As this is where all locations are described. So again...YES YES YES. these are more than welcome. even if the number of settlements needing to be renamed is limited, it will add to the correctness of the map and the information. As till now I relied on the awesome help of Sturm thus far, yet if the naming is flawed, It should be corrected.
Good! Tell me when you are ready to add the placenames, and I'll send you the list. ;)
"The prince should study historical accounts of the actions of great men, to see how they conducted themselves in war; he should study the
causes of their victories and defeats, so as to avoid the defeats and imitate the victories" N. Machiavelli, The Prince, XIV, 5

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:41 pm

Zendrolion wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:16 pm
Well, I suppose there are not many different interpretations of this (GAZ1, page 6):

The Callarii elves live in the central forests east and west of Kelvin and in the forested foothills south of the gnomish community.

That's why in my Karameikos articles in Threshold #1 I kept the southern border of the Kingdom of Highforge one and half 8mph north of the Windrush-Shuttarga river junction - south of it there are forests and some elven clans.
Ah..now I understand. The forests you mean are more southwest , south and south east of Kelvin on the map. and the Highforge is indeed in the hills nw. I already thought ; am I going bonkers?Image
Zendrolion wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:16 pm
This one should lead to the right spot. ;)
Thanx
Zendrolion wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:16 pm
]YES YES YES. Please. Then I can adjust these on time (and on the Dymrak map) for the next Threshold. As this is where all locations are described. So again...YES YES YES. these are more than welcome. even if the number of settlements needing to be renamed is limited, it will add to the correctness of the map and the information. As till now I relied on the awesome help of Sturm thus far, yet if the naming is flawed, It should be corrected.
Good! Tell me when you are ready to add the placenames, and I'll send you the list. ;)
[/quote]
I am ready.. ..I work already several days on the article (beyond mapping thus).
I could also PM you the Threshold Link where I and Allen already work on this. then you could add/change them yourself.
If you so prefer...just say so and i do so.
Otherwise (as many fall outside that map), the list will do fine, to be used later for all what falls outside that map.
Thanx
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Zendrolion » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:28 am

Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:41 pm
Ah..now I understand. The forests you mean are more southwest , south and south east of Kelvin on the map. and the Highforge is indeed in the hills nw.
Uhmm... GAZ1 passage seems clearly to indicate that elves live also south of Highforge, between the Shuttarga and Windrush rivers. Those hills, as per Thorf's updated map, should be forested; and there are no other foothills south of Kelvin anyway.
Robin wrote:
Wed Aug 14, 2019 10:41 pm
I am ready.. ..I work already several days on the article (beyond mapping thus).
Great. I sent you a PM with a list and an accompanying map. See what's useful for you there. ;)
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causes of their victories and defeats, so as to avoid the defeats and imitate the victories" N. Machiavelli, The Prince, XIV, 5

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Aug 15, 2019 10:42 am

ok...Then the villages Kamateros, Mirdal and Styrdul are actually Elven Villages, just as Cenwyst, Korgen, Jadova, Rifflian, Malass, Rechyndyr, Laesirith up to the Dymrak villages Bernabeth, Gelglais, Gurauth, Callanya.
I feel (due the dwarvish/gnomish name) that Styrdul would be Gnomish, maybe mixed gnomish/elven

All these I drew from Sturm's map..wherever he got them I do not know...alas

That there are no foothills south of Kelvin I knew :P

Great and thanx
Gonna work with it asap
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Aug 15, 2019 1:45 pm

Karameikos
Ok The main map again. Filled up the last main areas with hexes as the B10/X1 map gave.
Already adding details in the Highreach region as per Fanon maps by Sturm, Simone, Agathokles
Had to readjust the fanon creeks, rivers and many other locations as these were based on the 8mile hex maps, and shifted out of the B10/X1 more precise format.
Also added the lake boundaries from the 2300 BC overlap map by Chimpman
And added a lot more detail.

A whole lot of information still has to be added, and maybe changed here and there. Thanx Simone If you would like to view the map and deem your locations are corect or not please inform me.
The location of Highdell will be changed in either case, and as the discussion brought to the north of the Shutterga River, on the Karameikos North Map...on whuch I work as we speak
yet the overall map slowly falls into place, and takes shape as it should.

The hardest part was the Windrush valley and the Lost Valley. Both these were on themselves fitting, yet the Lost Valley, the Windrush Valley and the overall B10 map , all from the B10 module by the same artist, were conflicting with eachother. They seemed to be fitting beforehand, yet in overlaying locartions shifted several miles. Mountain ridges wandered, and lakes (like Lake windrush took different shapes and sizes. All very confusing.
My main lead herein was Thorf saying; The Oldest most precise source is the best. So I focused on the 2 mile detail maps, and tried to resume the conflicts which even existed betwen these two. The result ...thus far is as you can see.

Image

Image
A view of the most north of Karameikos

btw the names of the settlements in the Lost Valley a drew from the old TSR forum. I had copied/ripped that section, never thought I would need it otherwise than for my own group, and now it becomes mapped :P Those labelled here B10 were mapped and detailwd in that very adventure module. the random village used in B10, is actially Sespiteq, the first village PC's meet on their journey here. Although the others are similar differences also exist.
Sespiteq
Oteqxi
Nana
Kamana
Vastex
Turxek
Norteq
Kalata
Venxita
Terx
Ynix
Byxata (B10)
Tertaq
Ronkan (B10)
Tersuqta
Tetika
Alxati
Lixta
Vault of the Elders (B10)


Any input. Please place them here.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:56 am

Karameikos(north)
Ok begun to fill in all the areas not conflicting with eachother.
Still a lot to do Especially in the western section close to that friggin wrongly (8mile hex based) placed Duke Road Label.
Not yet sure what to do wirth the area between the fanon maps and the dukes roadkeep, (the whitish section)
Duigging through the canon sources and fanon. Based on the map and the ample text on the region, till now, it seems it holds a single glacier feeding the Shutterga
Maybe tomorrow more
Sounds easy, yet in a 5 fold canon and fanon map overlay this is dizzying.
Image
Image

The region close to Castellan Keep, with in front the Castellan River flowing left to the south through the pass. Its clear waters reveal glacial and well origin, without much erosion debris. The large Mountain on the right is the Mount Gruza of 10.870 feet high (following Zendrolion's minigazetteer)
Zendrolion wrote:
Mon Aug 12, 2019 2:47 pm
* Central Altan Tepes Mini-Gazetteer, which features the north-eastern tip of the Grand Duchy as well as the surrounding areas of Darokin (Altan Tepes Borderlands, with a few domains) and Ylaruam (south-western Makistan);
.....
I have a question on this. Is this altitude not way too high following canon? as far as I have read(TM2) the Cruth mountains (of Hornblende) have an average height of 4000 feet with Adrian Peak 5250 feet Gaz11 did mention Mount Dread being the highest at 5400 feet
and the Black Peak Mountains (of Basalt) have an average height of 4500 feet with Mount Pavel the highest at 5800 feet
Or do I have to follow the notion of Atlan Tepes (granite) of 8950 gfeet average and Mount Tarsus (in Thyatis) of 11380 feet.
Which path is best to follow
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Zendrolion » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:17 pm

Robin wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:56 am
I have a question on this. Is this altitude not way too high following canon? as far as I have read(TM2) the Cruth mountains (of Hornblende) have an average height of 4000 feet with Adrian Peak 5250 feet Gaz11 did mention Mount Dread being the highest at 5400 feet
and the Black Peak Mountains (of Basalt) have an average height of 4500 feet with Mount Pavel the highest at 5800 feet
Or do I have to follow the notion of Atlan Tepes (granite) of 8950 gfeet average and Mount Tarsus (in Thyatis) of 11380 feet.
Which path is best to follow
I simply took as valid what's found in PWA2-3 (page 160 in PWA2, for example): the Altan Tepes range's highest peak is Mount Tarsus at 11,380', so any other peak has to be smaller. I had the three other peaks in the central bulge of the range as high as possible then (in the 10,000-11,000' range).
"The prince should study historical accounts of the actions of great men, to see how they conducted themselves in war; he should study the
causes of their victories and defeats, so as to avoid the defeats and imitate the victories" N. Machiavelli, The Prince, XIV, 5

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:22 pm

Zendrolion wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:17 pm
Robin wrote:
Fri Aug 16, 2019 11:56 am
I have a question on this. Is this altitude not way too high following canon? as far as I have read(TM2) the Cruth mountains (of Hornblende) have an average height of 4000 feet with Adrian Peak 5250 feet Gaz11 did mention Mount Dread being the highest at 5400 feet
and the Black Peak Mountains (of Basalt) have an average height of 4500 feet with Mount Pavel the highest at 5800 feet
Or do I have to follow the notion of Atlan Tepes (granite) of 8950 gfeet average and Mount Tarsus (in Thyatis) of 11380 feet.
Which path is best to follow
I simply took as valid what's found in PWA2-3 (page 160 in PWA2, for example): the Altan Tepes range's highest peak is Mount Tarsus at 11,380', so any other peak has to be smaller. I had the three other peaks in the central bulge of the range as high as possible then (in the 10,000-11,000' range).
Ok thanx.
So the mentioning in Gaz 1 that mount Dread is the Highest mountain of Karameikos can more be seen as one of the highest of the region(even Mnt Pavel is somewhat higher).
Ok I can agree to that. Thanx.
That does mean we have a way greater altitude range to go through to reach the Castellan region.

Note; I found a suggestion of 1020AC where a road has been created called "the Castellan Corridor" going straight from Thyatis toward Selenica
Image
It even seems possible following the many X1 and Added fanon valleys going through these canon mountains (making the road much bendier instead straight), except the last section between Castellan Keep and Reedle. That section has to go straight over the canon X1 mountan ridges, glaciers, and a vast solid mountain area...something not done with ease...as it is very difficult to traverse, let alone build a road, very very expensive in either case. such a road would cost over 10 milion gp or even tenfold, if counting humanoid/giant disturbances). it is much cheaper AND easier going around it, like it is done now. That campaign apparently made Darokin and Thyatis having a much stronger bond and the bond with karameikos much degraded (they even seized the Castellan area away from Karameikos). Interesting yet not usable for my map, although they could use my map to that point.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sat Aug 17, 2019 7:41 pm

Karameikos(north)
Continued filling in the hexes, one by one determining which fanon source is best and lowest in conflicting the canon.
Tricky work, viewin through 6 maps; X1, B10, and Fanon of Sturm, Simone Neri, Shawn Stanley, Mike Phillips all at once
slowly an image begins to dawn
Image
Also brought in the scale and detail of the B2 map of the Castellan region, which can be seen clearly now.

An awesome map of Castellan keep belongs to this series of maps and map development (in my opinion)
Image
By Dyson

The only canon picture of Castellan Keep (which should have been named Castellan Castle, due its size, military and use).
Image
Although the scale of the characters to the castle is somewhat off, and the region is too devastated/empty/dead...still interesting and equal to the original B2 maps.
The 1 mile hex map will reveal farmlands closeby to feed the people inside(and closeby)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sun Aug 18, 2019 2:54 pm

Karameikos (Dymrak)
Ok... the extra input of Zendrolion about the Karameikan Thyatian family holds has forced me to make some slight readjustments on the Dymrak map.
Adding Estate borders and Labels, Castles/Keeps where needed and relocated Kallergan to the right location.
All this information will also be used in the main map. so enjoy.
Image

Image
The Dymrak Forest
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:55 am

Karameikos (North)

Filling in the hexes, resolving conflict zones between the various canon and fanon sources of Sturm, Simone Neri, Shawn Stanley, Mike Phillips, adding detail. Bringing in the flow patterns by adding creeks.
Image
Succeeded to bring in the special cold effects of the Ice Wall Location Shawn had created.
I make here the suggestion that even if the adventure is succesfully resolved, the area as is depicted on the map stays cold , not totally frozen, yet snow, sleet and ice are prominent. This is a natural counter reaction of the living planet to this massive energy draining on its planetary body which caused the cold effect. The area is in fact magically wounded and scarred, remaining cold. It isup to the individual DM if he allows the cold effect on creatures as Shawn created by the Icewall will still remain as thus, and enabling an unique local flora and fauna. One thing is clear, there is no longer control over any creatures as the artifact is gone.
Image

Here the map thus far.
It seems slowly more a whole fitting all input together.
far from ready though.. much to do
Many inconsistancies, contradictions, and ecological/geological flaws to resolve, before I have to begin with the heaviest task...detailing and altitudes adding...cripes :o :oops: ...what have I done??/ :shock: :shock: :shock: ...aaargh :roll:
Image
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:25 pm

N2 The Forest Oracle in Thyatis
Oeps :oops: ....I did it again :o ....wandering over the edge :shock: ....yet I could not resist myself :P :mrgreen: .
Hope yáll like it. :twisted: :halo:


Working on the Karameikos map, I noticed the eastern side to be perfectly compatible with this old AD&D 1 adventure N2 The Forest Oracle

Image

It succesfully merges with the Mystara world.
It is mirrored, enlarged it to fot the map scale to the 1 mile hex map scale and slightly adjusted to conform to the canon map of Thyatis.
Here the merging with my 1 mile hex map of Karameikos
Image
Here I went a bit over the edge of my Karameikos 1mile hex map. Yet it felt soo good, and truly befitted the region.
Here is the(thusfar) endresult of the merging with all canon/fanon of Karameikos and the old AD&D1 adventure N2 The Forest oracle.
Some adjustments(like adding some more detail, altitudes) will be done later. Maybe I slim down the mountainspur somewhat, to better fit the canon maps, as it is a bit wide now (on scale of N2, yet a bit off to canon)

Another old adventure now added to the Mystara World
KEEP IN MIND THAT WHEN USING THIS ADVENTURE ALL AREA/LOCATION MAPS INSIDE HAVE TO BE MIRRORED AS WELL!!
Have fun

And don't forget to tell me your opinion on this
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Mon Aug 19, 2019 11:12 pm

Karameikos
Brought in more detail from the various fanon maps and textual fanon/canon sources. Trying to stay treu to the canon as much as possible.
A high amount of canon detail still has to be added (especually from the penhaligon Trilogy Books, Dark Knight of Karameikos, Gazetteer 1 Grand Duchy of Karameikos and KKoA Karameikos Kingdom of Adventure. I try to toothcomb these for information
Due this precise research upcoming map updates will be much slower
Fanon and other sources are also pending
Image

My intention is to work on the details of the whole mapped region, although it might seem I work on the mountain areas first. That is just because these are easier.
And also because I need some more input by you fan creators on the question I asked earlier on the 2300BC/1000AC overlap map.
Any input on this is more than welcome, as it is especially on Geology and terrain issues which have to be resolved.
ANY HELP here in, especially from these fan-creators(Sturm/Chimpman/any other) is more than welcome


Here a temple in the Dmitrov Estate viewing over the sea to the south east. The steep hills of shores of Minrothad's North Island are visible on a clear day, and seem closer than reality permits. The distance is still 40 to 45 miles away.
Image

The eroding Zargash/Thunder Mountains in the east (the mountain spur west off Haven) seem grey white in the bright sunlight. The forested hills north of the Volaga seem a luscious region...yet many humanoids do live here also.
Image

Have Fun
Last edited by Robin on Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Zendrolion » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:04 am

Marvelous work, Robin! :cool:
Pictures are very aptly chosen and inspiring as well!

One thing about Ryania village, on the Rugalov. I think it shouldn't be a Vyalia village, but an (almost) human one.
See mention of the village in DDA3 (page 6).
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causes of their victories and defeats, so as to avoid the defeats and imitate the victories" N. Machiavelli, The Prince, XIV, 5

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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Tue Aug 20, 2019 10:53 am

Thanx This is what I 'mindsee' when walking through the map. I try to find images reflecting this. nice to know this is liked.

As to Ryania I have it as a Vyallia Elven/Traldar human village of orchard/hunting/foresting of 145 inhabitants as per DDA3/DDA4 indeed.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:30 pm

Karameikos (North)
Last days;
Brought in more details. amongst others the N2 adventure.
Resolved many minor issues
Filled in most of the voids of the map, some still need detailed examination before resolving.
Resolved the Ylari/mountain canon/fanon conflict. and now I am ready to import the fanon locations of this area
The valleys connecting to Castellan Keep become clear, and therewith the reason why it is erected where it is placed.
There are some discrepancies on the glaciers vs the mountain ridges. and thus still has to be resolved. Especially as this influences flow patterns.

Image
The Broken Lands area around the Ruins of Lunyf. a small dam can be seen leading to the ruins behind the rocks right.
As can be seen there is water, yet not much....most water evaporates before flowing together.
This area is a pain in the neck, and butt to travel. there is almost no vegetation, and if there is some the local animals feast on it.
Image

I feel sad, And I don't know why :(
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Zendrolion » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:03 am

Good to see the map proceeding. :)
Robin wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:30 pm
The Broken Lands area around the Ruins of Lunyf.
If you'r using the material I wrote for MGAZ1, then the place should be named IUNYT with an 'i' as first letter and 't' as last one.
In the booklet I also devised the dark and almost forgotten reason behind the barrennes of this area - a Nightmare creature trapped by the Nithians in the town mines... Description of the place is found in "The Ylaruam Side" chapter of the booklet. ;)
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:18 am

Zendrolion wrote:
Fri Aug 23, 2019 9:03 am
Good to see the map proceeding. :)
Robin wrote:
Thu Aug 22, 2019 7:30 pm
The Broken Lands area around the Ruins of Lunyf.
If you'r using the material I wrote for MGAZ1, then the place should be named IUNYT with an 'i' as first letter and 't' as last one.
In the booklet I also devised the dark and almost forgotten reason behind the barrennes of this area - a Nightmare creature trapped by the Nithians in the town mines... Description of the place is found in "The Ylaruam Side" chapter of the booklet. ;)
Thanx
yes slowly proceeding...much slower now.
I got this from the various fanon maps, so you're probably right. I change it. thanx. (and mark the reference in the text sheet for later use)
I will add a link to the text leading to the Mgaz1 document. Great info by the way. The text also helps in detailing the region.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sat Aug 24, 2019 6:04 pm

Karameikos (North)

Finally succeeded to bring the fanon material of Mike Philips, Sturm, and Shawn Stanleytogether with canon, even though at first the valleys seemed conflicting to the canon x1 map. The solution was to diminish the width of the fanon valleys(mostly the northern part of the Yebedeska gap) in the north ( and thus would not be revealed on larger 6 or 8 mile hex maps) And now seem to be fitting totally.

Added some more deatail on the Ylari and Darokin side, managed the (hopefully) last hex shifting from the Canolbarth map. The map now comes to life...slowly

There are some serious issues to be resolved as in reflection to the 2300/1700 BC maps, yet this is something to be resolved later.

Image

Here the Gap of Yebedeska in spring when the creaks flow more abundant
Image
ANY INPUT is more than welcome, as it will improve the map itself
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by stanles » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:47 pm

Robin wrote:
Tue Aug 06, 2019 12:00 pm
Even though this map(section) will receive more details like altitudes, and such later, it can already be used in the DMR1 adventure to replace the map given there and being compatible with the canon sources and fanon sources. So If you read this Shawn. You can add it in this post of my on Pandius; http://pandius.com/bywater.html or make a seperate post linking them together and to the Escape of Thunderrift adventure
I think that I should search for my name through this thread, sometimes I miss these references Robin. Also, you know since I only like to put finished products on the Vaults - at least for works which are being actively worked on - then this thread gets a little bit less attention unless you let me know directly that I've missed something Robin. So yes, as you can see I'm updating myself a bit with this thread, but I may easily have missed some completed works, or, other things like things which you would like up on the Vaults. Apologies.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by stanles » Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:56 pm

Robin wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 12:55 am
I make here the suggestion that even if the adventure is succesfully resolved, the area as is depicted on the map stays cold , not totally frozen, yet snow, sleet and ice are prominent. This is a natural counter reaction of the living planet to this massive energy draining on its planetary body which caused the cold effect. The area is in fact magically wounded and scarred, remaining cold. It isup to the individual DM if he allows the cold effect on creatures as Shawn created by the Icewall will still remain as thus, and enabling an unique local flora and fauna. One thing is clear, there is no longer control over any creatures as the artifact is gone.
That sounds like a perfectly reasonable follow-up to the adventure, yes. The problem I had with the idea of reworking Gordon's original idea and making a threat then when thinking of the ways to deal with that threat. Obviously one of the ways to deal with the threat posed by an out of control artifact is to destroy - remove the threat completely. But I much preferred the reprogramming idea - that way the threat could return, and the area itself can remain "altered" and different. This is much more likely to be the cause of future adventures rather than just dealing with the threat and tying up the whole situation with a neat little bow.
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by Robin » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:00 pm

stanles wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 8:09 pm
Robin wrote:
Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:05 am
Great Work Shawn

PS. take a quick look at the Karameikos North map. I have added your work to the map. Hope you like it.
thanks Robin, it looks great - although for my part I really just added a little bit of window dressing on Simone Neri's brilliant Central Altan Tepes mini Gazetteer. I like how you didn't make the valleys too wide, I don't think that they were ever meant to be - just a way to add detail to what would otherwise be featureless mountains after mountains.
Thanx. glad you like it.
I know, yet you created something totally out of the box and interesting. Hence my different way of mapping this awkward terrain and the suggestion to resolve after the adventure, while still maintaining treu to the adventure.;
I make here the suggestion that even if the adventure is succesfully resolved, the area as is depicted on the map stays cold , not totally frozen, yet snow, sleet and ice are prominent. This is a natural counter reaction of the living planet to this massive energy draining on its planetary body which caused the cold effect. The area is in fact magically wounded and scarred, remaining cold. It isup to the individual DM if he allows the cold effect on creatures as Shawn created by the Icewall will still remain as thus, and enabling an unique local flora and fauna. One thing is clear, there is no longer control over any creatures as the artifact is gone.
The point to the valley width is taken from the hex system. within a canon 6 mile anything less wide than 3 miles can be ignored, and an 8 mile hex even 4 miles. Yet going upscale to 1 mile hex, I can place anything within this 3 mile window, following fanon, and remaining consistent to the canon still.

Btw Ah. ok I understand :P :oops: . I'll inform you by PM the next time ;)

the above N2 adventure map suggestion for Mystara you can also rip for Pandius with the text suggestions added. It truly fit in the Thyatian section of these mountains with minor adjstments (except mirroring the map). When I am ready to add altitudes I inform you for an update, yet the map is ready to enable use for the players.

I keep busy :o :P ;) adding more and more information. It is clear Karameikos is the most textual, map, and grapghic detailed (and often conflicting) area to map into a 1 mile hex map
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Re: 1 Mile Hex Mapping

Post by stanles » Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:13 pm

Robin wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:00 pm
The point to the valley width is taken from the hex system. within a canon 6 mile anything less wide than 3 miles can be ignored, and an 8 mile hex even 4 miles. Yet going upscale to 1 mile hex, I can place anything within this 3 mile window, following fanon, and remaining consistent to the canon still.
Totally, and the way I think of it - perhaps oddly since I make maps for a living - is that upscaling or downscaling maps need not necessarily be an exact science, especially for hex based maps. A valley shown as consisting of single hexes on a 2.7 miles per hex map does not indicate mean that it's exactly that wide. It could be a little bit more, it could be a little bit less. It could be much less - you just want to indicate where it is on the map, and you want to indicate that it's wider than if you just put a trail or path line through a mountain hex.
Robin wrote:
Sat Aug 24, 2019 9:00 pm
Btw Ah. ok I understand :P :oops: . I'll inform you by PM the next time ;)

the above N2 adventure map suggestion for Mystara you can also rip for Pandius with the text suggestions added. It truly fit in the Thyatian section of these mountains with minor adjstments (except mirroring the map). When I am ready to add altitudes I inform you for an update, yet the map is ready to enable use for the players.

I keep busy :o :P ;) adding more and more information. It is clear Karameikos is the most textual, map, and grapghic detailed (and often conflicting) area to map into a 1 mile hex map
Sounds good, we'll get there one way or the other, I have no doubt about that.

I'll take the N2 map too.
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