Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mystara?

Weird red metals, dominions, immortals, hollow planets, invisible moons, and a lot of glorified magic zeppelins. It's all here.
The Book-House: Find Mystara products, Find Known World products.

Moderators: Seer of Yhog, Gawain_VIII, Havard, Cthulhudrew

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 20186
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mystara?

Post by Havard » Sun Mar 20, 2016 1:10 pm

In the 3E/4E/5E Mystara Product List thread, NPCDave brought my attention to the 3E rulebook, Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords:
NPCDave wrote:
WotC 3E Books with Mystara Teasers
Add Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords...very brief one sentence mention of the Isle of Dawn. p139
Now I looked up the section on page 139 and it details the story of a crew sailing from the Isle of Dawn and being attacked by a Kraken. The only survivor of the shipwreck being a young boy who is washed ashore along with one of the Nine Swords (from the Book's title). "Isle of Dawn" is a fairly generic name, but with the proximity of a sea with a Kraken? I am more convinced that Mystara was in the author's mind.

There is another reference to this on page 6 where it says that one of the places Reshar, the founder of the Temple of the Nine Swords, visited in his training were the islands beyond dawn. Since this is where Reshar learned the ways of the Setting Sun which is linked to the sword mentioned on page 139, I am convinced that this is the same Isle of Dawn. "Beyond dawn" could mean Ochalea which would be very appropriate.

Finally, the Faithful Avenger sword was used against the Black Eagle Baron before given to one of the Baron's lieutenants!

Is this entire book written with Mystara in mind? No. That much is clear. Many locations are either generic or belong to settings I do not immediately recognize. Some lands feature races like Mindflayers, or Deities such as Pelor. On the other hand the book makes it clear that the influence of the Nine Swords spreads across many planes. It seems likely that Reshar travelled the planes before founding the Temple of the Nine Swords and it also seems that the Nine Swords were spread across the planes after the destruction of the Temple, as were the fighting styles associated with them.


Another possible reference to Mystara is the Shadow Hand technique and the sword Umbral Awn. This fighting style is associated with stealth. Shadow Hand is also the assassin's guild in Thyatis. Could this be the place of origin for this fighting style?


Other things:
  • Ur-Thalddar: Hobgoblin Temple where Reshar recieved his early training.
  • Temple of Nine Swords: Three Lifetimes (300 years?) ago Reshar constructed this temple in the Sunspire Peaks. Could this be on Mystara? Or somewhere else? It later fell into ruin. The story of the Eventide's Edge suggests that the crew from the Isle of Dawn believed they could sail to the location of the Temple. Or perhaps they were on their way to a Gate leading to it?
  • Harran Turiyeshor, the Swordsage, aka the "Iron Dragon": - This is the "narrator" of the book. He defeated the High Inquisitor of Tiamat and slew the demon Varrash-Kral in the Ebon Tower. Three years ago he excised the Mind flayer infestation from Darkvale. Could he also be the young boy mentioned sailing from the Isle of Dawn?
  • Desert Wind (Desert Wind):Comissioned by the Emir Rashid ben Daoud from the Southern Desert. Golden desert. Dervishes of Andrama. Ylaruam?
  • Faithful Avenger (Devouted Spirit): Previous owners include the Paladin Jurrik who fought a Black Dragon and Lorista who fought against the Black Eagle Baron(!) - Karameikos
  • Supernal Clarity (Diamond Mind) - Forged by Gityhanki smith named Veselka on the Astral plane before acquired by Reshar. Later stolen from the Temple of the Nine Swords by the Rakshasa Prince Khaziir-Thet. Then acquired by a swordsman named Radigan who returned it to Veselka before the two travelled to the ruins of the Temple of the Nine Swords.
  • Kamate (Iron Heart) - Goblin/Hobgoblin blade owned by the Hobgoblin Kuyibet who escaped a horde of angry dwarves. Generic
  • Eventide's Edge (Setting Sun) - see above
  • Umbral Awn (Shadow Hand) - See above
  • Unfettered (Stone Dragon) - A sword in the possession of a dwarf named Thungrim and his Goliath companion Khanithiak, who lived in slavery among Frost Giants. Norwold?
  • Tiger Fang (Tiger Claw) - a warrior known as Khasparat wielded this blade. He lived in a village ruled by a Rajah. Sind comes to mind?
  • Blade of the Last Citadel (White Raven) - This story features a land of Giants, Orcs, a Paladin named Iulian and his apprentice Terras. Too generic to say much.

NAME | DESCRIPTION | CANON SETTING | ADAPTATION Ur-Thalddar | Hobgoblin Temple where Reshar recieved his early training. | Unknown | Eberron? Temple of Nine Swords | Sunspire Peaks | Unknown | Greyhawk? High Inquisitor of Tiamat | | Unknown | Greyhawk? Ebon Tower | and slew the demon Varrash-Kral | Unknown | Eberron? Darkvale | Mind flayer infestation | Unknown | Greyhawk? Desert Wind (Desert Wind) | Emir Rashid ben Daoud from the Southern Desert. Golden desert. Dervishes of Andrama. More details in Weapons of Legacy | Unknown | ? Faithful Avenger (Devouted Spirit) | Connected to Black Eagle Baron | Mystara : Karameikos | Supernal Clarity (Diamond Mind) | Forged by Gityhanki smith named Veselka | Astral plane | Kamate (Iron Heart) | Hobgoblin Kuyibet who escaped a horde of angry dwarves. | Unknown | Mystara? Eventide's Edge (Setting Sun) | Isle of Dawn | Mystara | Umbral Awn (Shadow Hand) | | Unknown | Mystara (Thyatis)? Unfettered (Stone Dragon) | A sword in the possession of a dwarf named Thungrim and his Goliath companion Khanithiak, who lived in slavery among Frost Giants. | Unknown | Mystara: Norwold? Tiger Fang (Tiger Claw) | a warrior known as Khasparat wielded this blade. He lived in a village ruled by a Rajah. | Unknown | Mystara (Sind)? Blade of the Last Citadel (White Raven) | Paladin named Iulian and his apprentice Terras. | Unknown | ?

What do you think? Do you reconize any of the more generic names listed above? Could other parts of the book be fitted into Mystara or other settings?

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
Posts: 25247
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: London UK
Contact:

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Big Mac » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:07 pm

I thought that all the core 3e books were supposed to be "Greyhawk lite". Did Isle of Dawn ever get hijacked from Mystara and dumped into Greyhawk?

And...if there was a Greyhawk reboot to Isle of Dawn...would any of these things have been added in Greyhawk books? (I'm mostly wondering, as it might be possible to use Greyhawk books to provide missing details for your Mystara campaign.)
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and follow The Piazza's Twitter feed so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum (and administrator). My moderator voice is green.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 20186
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Havard » Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:24 pm

Big Mac wrote:I thought that all the core 3e books were supposed to be "Greyhawk lite". Did Isle of Dawn ever get hijacked from Mystara and dumped into Greyhawk?
This is the first time I have seen the Isle of Dawn mentioned in a post WotC book. I think the Isle of Dawn would be fairly difficult to hijack into another setting given how integral it is to the Mystara setting. Interestingly the book not only mentions the Isle of Dawn, but also the Black Eagle Baron, a character from Karameikos which is far from the Isle of Dawn.

I think these are easter eggs hidden there for Mystara fans by an author (Rich Baker?) who liked Mystara. Possibly based on one of his own campaigns. Robert J Schwalb did something similar with the Neversleep Citadel.

I generally agree with you that Greyhawk was said to be the default setting of the 3E books, but they do seem to have become more laxed about it as the product line went on, especially with such a late era product. Also, this book specifically references multiple planes (see below).
And...if there was a Greyhawk reboot to Isle of Dawn...would any of these things have been added in Greyhawk books? (I'm mostly wondering, as it might be possible to use Greyhawk books to provide missing details for your Mystara campaign.)
In Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords, The Isle of Dawn only plays a part of the backstory for the founder of the Temple of the Nine Swords as well as the home of the boy who recovered the Eventide's Edge. As the book does mention that the Temple and its swords have had an impact on multiple worlds and planes, it doesn't seem too problematic to assume that Mystara is one of them.

I am more interested in the other locations though. Can any of them be identified as official parts of Mystara or other settings? If not, could they be adapted to Mystara?

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
Morfie
Metamorph
Posts: 824
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2011 3:48 am
Gender: male
Location: New Zealand

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Morfie » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:03 am

Havard wrote: I think these are easter eggs hidden there for Mystara fans by an author (Rich Baker?) who liked Mystara.
Rich Baker did write the Night Of The Vampire (an audio CD module for Mystara) so this is entirely possible.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 20186
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Havard » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:41 pm

Morfie wrote:Rich Baker did write the Night Of The Vampire (an audio CD module for Mystara) so this is entirely possible.
Ahhh! That makes alot more sense now. So we have two locations confirmed as set in Mystara. One location, the "Supernal Clarity (Diamond Mind)" is clearly not set in Mystara as this sword was forged on the Astral Plane. Some of the locations visited in the backstory of Harran Turiyeshor feel out of place for Mystara since they involve the High Inquisitor of Tiamat and an invasion of Mindflayers. I'm thinking Greyhawk seems like a likely candidate for those, though I still like the idea of Harran Turiyeshor being the boy washed ashore after the shipwreck from the Isle of Dawn. Umbral Awn (Shadow Hand)'s location seems even more likely to be based on Thyatis knowing Rich Baker's familiarity with Mystara.

The locations of the other five swords are so generic they could be in Mystara or some other world. I think Desert Wind is likely for either Mystara (Ylaruam) or Al-Quadim. Tiger Fang (Tiger Claw)'s location seems like a good fit for Sind, though I guess the Forgotten Realms also has an India-like realm?

That leaves three sword locations being up for grabs.

Also the location of the Temple of the Nine Swords is left such a mystery that it could be placed anywhere, though the fact that those people from the Isle of Dawn thought they could reach it by ship does suggest a location on Mystara as well.


Edit: A really cool description of Reshar, founder of the Temple of Nine Swords in his spirit form in the Giants in the Playground Forum

Edit 2: Table moved to original post.

Book of Nine Swords freebies on WotC's site.

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
Posts: 3477
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm
Gender: male

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by ripvanwormer » Mon Mar 21, 2016 2:34 pm

Rich Baker wrote a little about Night of the Vampire on his blog : http://richard-baker.blogspot.com/searc ... date=false
It was a low-level adventure set in the Mystara campaign setting, which I didn’t know much about. Fortunately, the adventure is pretty self-contained, and I didn’t have to do a ton of studying up to write it.
So he might still not have a lot of Mystara expertise.

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Chimpman » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:31 pm

Big Mac wrote:I thought that all the core 3e books were supposed to be "Greyhawk lite". Did Isle of Dawn ever get hijacked from Mystara and dumped into Greyhawk?

And...if there was a Greyhawk reboot to Isle of Dawn...would any of these things have been added in Greyhawk books? (I'm mostly wondering, as it might be possible to use Greyhawk books to provide missing details for your Mystara campaign.)
This was true for the Isle of Dread (in fact the center point of the Savage Tide Adventure Path), but the Isle of Dawn is actually a much larger and more populated land mass between Mystara's "Known World" and the Empire of Alphatia.
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Chimpman » Mon Mar 21, 2016 3:54 pm

I think it's probably safe to assume that WotC would have intended the "Main setting" for the book to be Greyhawk, with references to it's other two most popular worlds - Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance. It's also clear that they did leave some Easter Eggs for Planescape and Mystara, and perhaps several other world settings (though I'm more familiar with Mystara and less so with most everything else - so I'm not sure I could pick up on all of them).

References to any desert location could very well have been Athas (though IIRC it is hard to travel there from other worlds).

I also thought that the references to hobgoblin temples could have been alluding the Dhakaani Empire of Eberron, which at one point had a vast civilization of (perhaps semi-enlightened) hobgoblins.
Havard wrote:Temple of Nine Swords: Three Lifetimes (300 years?) ago Reshar constructed this temple in the Sunspire Peaks. Could this be on Mystara? Or somewhere else? It later fell into ruin. The story of the Eventide's Edge suggests that the crew from the Isle of Dawn believed they could sail to the location of the Temple. Or perhaps they were on their way to a Gate leading to it?
This is interesting. The term "three lifetimes ago" might even (from a Mystaran perspective) be a reference to someone who is on the Path of the Polymath... in which case it could be a lot longer than 300 years. If I were integrating this into Mystara, that's the route I would take.
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Chimpman » Mon Mar 21, 2016 4:11 pm

A few more ideas. I don't have the book handy at the moment, but from your list above:

Ur-Thalddar - This sounds very Dhakaani (Eberron) to me.

Ebon Tower, and the demon Varrash-Kral - again this sounds like something from Eberron. Perhaps something dealing with the rakshasa and Lords of Dust?

The Hobgoblin Kuyibet (depending on the time frame) could have been a member of Akkila-Khan's horde in Ethengar. Dwarves are nearby ;) .
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

agathokles
Red Dragon
Posts: 7689
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 6:42 pm
Gender: male
Location: Milan, Italy
Contact:

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by agathokles » Mon Mar 21, 2016 5:05 pm

AFAIR, the Shadow Hand is an criminal organization (a Thieves' Guild), not an Assassin's Guild.

On a different level, it seems to me that the cross-planar nature of the setting elements in this book has two effects: on one hand, it is not terribly sound to derive a possible connection of a location or item to one setting based on other locations or items in the book being explicitly or implicitly located in that setting (i.e., the fact that a sword in the book was used in Karameikos does not mean that another sword would have part of its history set in Mystara), but at the same time the reverse is also true (i.e., just because a character appears on a certain plane or world does not mean he might not have visited Mystara at some point).
So, the fact that the adventures of Harran Turiyeshor take place in a world where Mind Flayers are found (not Mystara) does not mean he can't be the same guy who is mentioned on the Isle of Dawn (provided there are other elements supporting this, of course).
At the same time, any unsubstantiated relation between generic locales and Mystara is difficult to support, as there would be no reason for such a vastly distributed set of events, locations, items, and people to be actually part of Mystara instead of Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, or any of a vast number of unnamed prime materials (not to mention outer planes).

Some additional considerations:
  • The "Hobgoblin Temple" does not seem very Mystaran -- Hobgoblins are not terribly organized, nor a major race in Mystara, as they are in other settings, in particular Eberron, which as Chimpman says is a more likely candidate.
  • The "Southern Desert" or "Great Golden Desert" can hardly be the Alasiyan desert. Not only because it is not generally known as such, and the authors of the book demonstrate a quite good knowledge of Mystara, but also because, with respect to the main civilizations of the Known World, Ylaruam is not a southern or particularly large land. In theory, it could be another desert (e.g., the Aryptian Desert, but once more the Aryptian Desert is not known under those monikers).
  • The presence of a Goliath (not a Mystaran race) points to a different setting for Unfettered. Goliaths have been retrofitted into Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and Dark Sun, and are part of the 4e setting.
G.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 20186
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Havard » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:39 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:Rich Baker wrote a little about Night of the Vampire on his blog : http://richard-baker.blogspot.com/searc ... date=false
It was a low-level adventure set in the Mystara campaign setting, which I didn’t know much about. Fortunately, the adventure is pretty self-contained, and I didn’t have to do a ton of studying up to write it.
So he might still not have a lot of Mystara expertise.
Thanks for pointing that out. The references are fairly generic. On the other hand they seem a bit random if inserted by someone who isn't really into Mystara. Along with Richard Baker, Matthew Sernet and Frank Brunner were listed as authors. I suppose it is possible that one of these two had a hand in it? Or Richard's quote is just him being modest. It is possible that he played in Mystara and that some of these things were taken from that campaign without him feeling he could say he was an expert in the setting?
Chimpman wrote:I think it's probably safe to assume that WotC would have intended the "Main setting" for the book to be Greyhawk, with references to it's other two most popular worlds - Forgotten Realms and Dragonlance. It's also clear that they did leave some Easter Eggs for Planescape and Mystara, and perhaps several other world settings (though I'm more familiar with Mystara and less so with most everything else - so I'm not sure I could pick up on all of them).
I agree that this would have been WotC's main policy, though it seems to me that their use of Greyhawk may have faded a bit towards the end of the 3E line as Greyhawk fans seem to have rejected much of the material from those books. On the other hand, I found some more references to Greyhawk things such as a mention of the "Free City" in the book, though these are taken from example characters and not the main storyline involving the Nine Swords.

I think it is clear that the authors intend this not to be a setting book though, but rather a book about concepts that can be applied to multiple worlds. So it would make sense that the fighting traditions appeared on multiple worlds with Reshar being the only one who ever mastered all the styles. When the temple was destroyed, the swords representing each style reappeared in the realms where the styles were first practised.


Another thought on easter eggs, it seems a bit odd that they would keep the references to vague that even Mystara fans are discovering this a decade after the book's publication.
References to any desert location could very well have been Athas (though IIRC it is hard to travel there from other worlds).
Possible, but the description of that land also refers to Emirs and Andrama Dervishes. That sounds more Arabic than Dark Sun, but I could be wrong.

I also thought that the references to hobgoblin temples could have been alluding the Dhakaani Empire of Eberron, which at one point had a vast civilization of (perhaps semi-enlightened) hobgoblins.
Sounds goood to me. It would make sense that they would want to reference one of the Flagship settings of that edition.


This is interesting. The term "three lifetimes ago" might even (from a Mystaran perspective) be a reference to someone who is on the Path of the Polymath... in which case it could be a lot longer than 300 years. If I were integrating this into Mystara, that's the route I would take.
I really like the idea of Reshar being on a quest for Immortality. Learning the different fighting styles also fits to a quest like that, as does his mysterious fate and the idea that Vesalka the weapon smith was able to "meet Reshar" at the ruins of the temple, a final time before her death.
Ebon Tower, and the demon Varrash-Kral - again this sounds like something from Eberron. Perhaps something dealing with the rakshasa and Lords of Dust?
I don't know enough about Eberron to say, but I am willing to accept this. The Book of Nine Swords also introduces a new type of Rakshasa so that seems appropriate.
The Hobgoblin Kuyibet (depending on the time frame) could have been a member of Akkila-Khan's horde in Ethengar. Dwarves are nearby ;) .
That seems very appropriate. If we wanted to make things more complicared we could have Akkila-Khan have connections to the Eberron Hobgoblins, but the Book of Nine Swords doesn't go into any connection between Kuybiet and Ur-Thalddar so those could well be unrelated too.


-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 20186
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Havard » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:57 pm

agathokles wrote:AFAIR, the Shadow Hand is an criminal organization (a Thieves' Guild), not an Assassin's Guild.
I stand corrected :)
On a different level, it seems to me that the cross-planar nature of the setting elements in this book has two effects: on one hand, it is not terribly sound to derive a possible connection of a location or item to one setting based on other locations or items in the book being explicitly or implicitly located in that setting (i.e., the fact that a sword in the book was used in Karameikos does not mean that another sword would have part of its history set in Mystara), but at the same time the reverse is also true (i.e., just because a character appears on a certain plane or world does not mean he might not have visited Mystara at some point).
So, the fact that the adventures of Harran Turiyeshor take place in a world where Mind Flayers are found (not Mystara) does not mean he can't be the same guy who is mentioned on the Isle of Dawn (provided there are other elements supporting this, of course).

Indeed. As I am starting to piece together the facts about the life of Harran Turiyeshor, I do think he could have started out on Mystara, then ventured to Greyhawk and later to Eberron. He lost two companions driving off the Mindflayer infestation, suggesting that he is a pretty epic character suffering such a small loss. His other feats also suggest a fairly high level character. Yet not as powerful as Reshar.
At the same time, any unsubstantiated relation between generic locales and Mystara is difficult to support, as there would be no reason for such a vastly distributed set of events, locations, items, and people to be actually part of Mystara instead of Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, or any of a vast number of unnamed prime materials (not to mention outer planes).
Yes. The only two references I am certain of being references to Mystara is the Black Eagle Barony and the Isle of Dawn. Shadow Hand is generic enough it might be an "unintentional reference", but it does seem to fit quite well with the bigger picture of that fighting style. As to the other locations, they could be adapted to Mystara or other settings as one sees fit. I think it is a good idea not to try to fit all the locations into Mystara though as it would go against some of the fundamental concepts of the book as you mention.
The "Hobgoblin Temple" does not seem very Mystaran -- Hobgoblins are not terribly organized, nor a major race in Mystara, as they are in other settings, in particular Eberron, which as Chimpman says is a more likely candidate.
I agree with this one.
The "Southern Desert" or "Great Golden Desert" can hardly be the Alasiyan desert. Not only because it is not generally known as such, and the authors of the book demonstrate a quite good knowledge of Mystara, but also because, with respect to the main civilizations of the Known World, Ylaruam is not a southern or particularly large land. In theory, it could be another desert (e.g., the Aryptian Desert, but once more the Aryptian Desert is not known under those monikers).
Yeah, that is probably a long stretch. Arypt did cross my mind also. I was hoping someone would recognize the Dervishes of Andrama from somewhere, but it could be an invention of that book. Golden Desert made me think of the Golden Voyages sourcebook for Al-Qadim, but I suppose that book doesn't really refer to the desert part of that setting.
The presence of a Goliath (not a Mystaran race) points to a different setting for Unfettered. Goliaths have been retrofitted into Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, and Dark Sun, and are part of the 4e setting.
On the one hand authors don't really seem to have had many problems placing non-Mystara monsters into Mystara. If one wanted to adapt this to Mystara, I like the suggestion made by fans in the past to assume Stalwarts as Mystara's Goliaths. But given that this book came out before Goliath's became a core race with 4E, I think this could be an indication that the Unfettered's realm could also be Eberron. Is there a land of Frost Giants in Eberron somewhere?

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 20186
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Havard » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:37 pm

Wow, this book is actually filled with small setting references here and there. Came across another little gem:
General Rurik Axethrower, IX Rockhome Legion (Deepstone Sentinel).


No other information given about him as far as I have been able to find, except for a fairly generic quote.

That is a Mystara character in my book though :ugeek: :cool:

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
Posts: 3477
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm
Gender: male

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by ripvanwormer » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:46 pm

Havard wrote:[*]Desert Wind (Desert Wind):Comissioned by the Emir Rashid ben Daoud from the Southern Desert. Golden desert. Dervishes of Andrama. Ylaruam?
This item also appears in Weapons of Legacy. I don't think that source has any additional information; the descriptions seem identical. Since Rashid ben Daoud is a planar traveler (or, at least, deals regularly with planar travelers), he could have visited Mystara even if the southern deserts mentioned in the description aren't part of Mystara. I'd considered linking him to the hero-deity Daoud from the World of Greyhawk setting, but Daoud is a pretty common name (it's the Arabic equivalent of David), so there's no real reason to do so, especially since Daoud's native Tusmit doesn't fit the description of "southern deserts" (although, again, Rashid is a planar traveler; perhaps the son of Greyhawk's Daoud immigrated to Zakhara and took side trips to Mystara in search of rare goods from Ylaruam and Alphatia).

agathokles
Red Dragon
Posts: 7689
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 6:42 pm
Gender: male
Location: Milan, Italy
Contact:

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by agathokles » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:54 am

Havard wrote:Wow, this book is actually filled with small setting references here and there. Came across another little gem:
General Rurik Axethrower, IX Rockhome Legion (Deepstone Sentinel).


No other information given about him as far as I have been able to find, except for a fairly generic quote.

That is a Mystara character in my book though :ugeek: :cool:
Cool.
GP

agathokles
Red Dragon
Posts: 7689
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 6:42 pm
Gender: male
Location: Milan, Italy
Contact:

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by agathokles » Tue Mar 22, 2016 10:59 am

Havard wrote: Yeah, that is probably a long stretch. Arypt did cross my mind also. I was hoping someone would recognize the Dervishes of Andrama from somewhere, but it could be an invention of that book. Golden Desert made me think of the Golden Voyages sourcebook for Al-Qadim, but I suppose that book doesn't really refer to the desert part of that setting.
No, the deserts in Al Qadim are the High Desert and the Haunted Lands.
On the one hand authors don't really seem to have had many problems placing non-Mystara monsters into Mystara. If one wanted to adapt this to Mystara, I like the suggestion made by fans in the past to assume Stalwarts as Mystara's Goliaths. But given that this book came out before Goliath's became a core race with 4E, I think this could be an indication that the Unfettered's realm could also be Eberron. Is there a land of Frost Giants in Eberron somewhere?
I don't know. However, it is worth noting that Goliaths were not specifically created for Eberron. They came with their own mini-setting in Races of Stone, AFAIK (I don't know the details, though).

GP

User avatar
willpell
Black Dragon
Posts: 3389
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:10 pm
Gender: male
Location: Minnesota, USA

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by willpell » Tue Mar 22, 2016 12:43 pm

Swords. Why'd it have to be swords? Nobody ever makes a book about the Temple of Nine Axes, or a collection of nine magical spears.

agathokles
Red Dragon
Posts: 7689
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 6:42 pm
Gender: male
Location: Milan, Italy
Contact:

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by agathokles » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:47 pm

willpell wrote:Swords. Why'd it have to be swords? Nobody ever makes a book about the Temple of Nine Axes, or a collection of nine magical spears.
It's a topos. IIRC, Monte Cook mentioned that in 3e, swords were superior by design w.r.t. other weapon types.
While the topos may be abused, it is still interesting because it can be reversed, as it happens in Planescape: Torment, where the player character never uses a sword.

G

User avatar
willpell
Black Dragon
Posts: 3389
Joined: Wed Sep 23, 2015 9:10 pm
Gender: male
Location: Minnesota, USA

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by willpell » Tue Mar 22, 2016 1:55 pm

Things like this tick me off, because once a trope is codified, you can never get away from it. The moment you observe that D&D (and medieval fantasy in general) is lousy with magic swords, then every work has to be either an example of that trope or an aversion, subversion, etc. of it...you can't ever again make a work where there are some magic swords, without instantly triggering people like me to be like "omg not magic swords AGAIN". I just want there to be a work in which the sword is just one weapon, with advantages and disadvantages that are comparable to all other weapons (except the f$@%ing Light Hammer, of course), so that choosing whether to use a sword or an axe is largely (but not exclusively) a symbolic and aesthetic choice.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 20186
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Havard » Thu Mar 24, 2016 7:33 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:
Havard wrote:[*]Desert Wind (Desert Wind):Comissioned by the Emir Rashid ben Daoud from the Southern Desert. Golden desert. Dervishes of Andrama. Ylaruam?
This item also appears in Weapons of Legacy. I don't think that source has any additional information; the descriptions seem identical. Since Rashid ben Daoud is a planar traveler (or, at least, deals regularly with planar travelers), he could have visited Mystara even if the southern deserts mentioned in the description aren't part of Mystara. I'd considered linking him to the hero-deity Daoud from the World of Greyhawk setting, but Daoud is a pretty common name (it's the Arabic equivalent of David), so there's no real reason to do so, especially since Daoud's native Tusmit doesn't fit the description of "southern deserts" (although, again, Rashid is a planar traveler; perhaps the son of Greyhawk's Daoud immigrated to Zakhara and took side trips to Mystara in search of rare goods from Ylaruam and Alphatia).
Thank you for pointing that out! Arabic "Ben" means "son of", so Rashid Ben Doud could easily be the son of Greyhawk's Daoud. Could the desert be found in Greyhawk? Weapons of legacy is written by Bruce Cordell. Could that mean that the southern desert is part of Cordell's Neverness Setting? Given his background it does seem possible that Rashid has visited the arabic-like lands of all of these worlds.

Given the additional information from Weapons of Legacy it seems even more unlikely that the Southern Desert is on Mystara.

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

Darva
Hobgoblin
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:09 pm
Gender: prefer not to say

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Darva » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:02 pm

deleted
Last edited by Darva on Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:28 am, edited 2 times in total.

Darva
Hobgoblin
Posts: 76
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2012 4:09 pm
Gender: prefer not to say

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Darva » Fri Mar 25, 2016 5:05 pm

deleted
Last edited by Darva on Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
Posts: 3477
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm
Gender: male

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by ripvanwormer » Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:34 pm

Havard wrote:Thank you for pointing that out! Arabic "Ben" means "son of", so Rashid Ben Doud could easily be the son of Greyhawk's Daoud. Could the desert be found in Greyhawk?
The description of the southern deserts: "In these metropolises, all citizens know powerful magic, and genies walk the streets alongside mortals. The communities are presided over by powerful caliphs and emirs, who rule with iron fists hidden within silken gloves of courtly intrigue and duplicity." This certainly doesn't fit the Sea of Dust or the Bright Desert. I suppose you could turn the Southlands in Western Oerik/Chainmail/The Sundered Empire into a place like that, but it's not how the Southlands are described either. Then again, the Southlands are vast, and almost anything could be there.
Weapons of legacy is written by Bruce Cordell. Could that mean that the southern desert is part of Cordell's Neverness Setting?
The Ashen Lands/Ashen Waste is the desert from College of Magic, and the Grim Steppe from Masters of Eternal Night might be the same place. Neither of them are portrayed as Arabian Nights sorts of places.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 20186
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Havard » Fri Mar 25, 2016 11:27 pm

I'm reading more of this book and discovering more of the setting. You have to do a bit of digging because this is primarily a rules book with the setting stuff sprinkled in between the rules stuff. I like how the book is structured around the story of Reshar though with each chapter starting with an illustration from his life.

Although the fighting tradtions and swords are drawn from multiple worlds and settings, it seems that the world of the Temple of Seven Swords is being presented as a new setting or mini-setting in this book.

At this point I am convinced that the realm where the Temple of the Seven Swords was located is not Mystara. That leaves the need for a reason why those adventurers from the Isle of Dawn thought they could reach the Temple using a ship, but we can get back to that later.

Some locations in the world of the Temple of Seven Swords are:
  • The Sunspear Mountains
  • The Khostra Amnorn Mountain Peak
  • The Harad Devin Temple
  • The Deluge Jungle
We also learn that this world has drow and rangers hunting them as well as phase spiders and other monsters.

I'd be curious to hear if this suggests that the Temple could be found on Greyhawk, or whether we are talking about another Greyhawk-like plane?

ripvanwormer wrote:
Havard wrote:Thank you for pointing that out! Arabic "Ben" means "son of", so Rashid Ben Doud could easily be the son of Greyhawk's Daoud. Could the desert be found in Greyhawk?
The description of the southern deserts: "In these metropolises, all citizens know powerful magic, and genies walk the streets alongside mortals. The communities are presided over by powerful caliphs and emirs, who rule with iron fists hidden within silken gloves of courtly intrigue and duplicity." This certainly doesn't fit the Sea of Dust or the Bright Desert. I suppose you could turn the Southlands in Western Oerik/Chainmail/The Sundered Empire into a place like that, but it's not how the Southlands are described either. Then again, the Southlands are vast, and almost anything could be there.
Rashid ben Daoud's world sounds really cool, but perhaps it is too high fantasy even for Mystara, Greyhak or the Forgotten Realms? Another option is to make this part of the same world as the Temple of Seven Swords (above) or perhaps its own separate new world? Or perhaps a planar location on the Plane of Earth or something?

In any case, clearly not a Mystara location.

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
Chimpman
Hadozee
Posts: 7929
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 6:52 pm
Gender: male
Location: USA, California

Re: Tome of Battle: Book of Nine Swords - Parts set in Mysta

Post by Chimpman » Tue Mar 29, 2016 2:16 am

Havard wrote:Although the fighting tradtions and swords are drawn from multiple worlds and settings, it seems that the world of the Tempe of Seven Swords is being presented as a new setting or mini-setting in this book.
Interesting. We should share this with the Spelljammer folks - I wonder if anyone over there has picked up on this and developed a new Sphere for the setting.
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
Visit the Exiles Campaign Setting (a Mystara / Spelljammer crossover)
Visit Mystara 2300 BC

Moderator of The Tabard Inn and Blackmoor. My moderator voice is purple.

Post Reply

Return to “Mystara”