[Glantri] The Great School of Magic

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Re: The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Sun Apr 02, 2017 4:16 pm

I am still busy, but it(the isometric drawings and interior too) goes well as planned. probably next week finished
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:06 pm

Restoring the old isometric map :geek: and adding 2 new ones :o , while keeping Real Life issues intact took more time than expected. :? :oops:
Two Isometric maps on scale ready, working on the last, and the interior maps (architecturally sound :ugeek: ).
Awaiting some input of Bruce Heard on a very interesting bit of his latest map (the golden statue) :halo:
and need some input by Micky...but Until now I got no response :( ...So Micky ...are you still available? :| :?:

Eitherway...the maps will soon be finalized and revealed here. :lol:
give me some more time please... :| :mrgreen:
I'll add explanatory detailing to the various structures on the maps, based on logic/architecture/sociocultural structural behavior and such. :ugeek:
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Wed Apr 26, 2017 8:09 pm

Micky...??? :?: :(
Where are you?? :shock:
I need your Input... :geek:
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:45 pm

ok...even without Micky :oops: ;( I have to continue :o

Great School of Magic in Glantri City
All Canon information and sources together (page number or other location)
Gazetteer 3 Principalities of Glantri
- Glantri city resembles Venice in many ways.
- 10’ to 20’ deep Murky waters (38)
- Parliament Waterway, Citadel Waterway, Library Drain, Alchemic Duct, Chamberlain’s Channel, School Channel, Magistrate Passage never freeze due hidden gates letting water in from the Plane of Water.(38)
- Little room to spare within City walls. (38)
- Tuition 5Dc/day/Level student includes Board, Room, Use of School Library and Laboratories.(58)
- Classes; Agility Training, Conjure Companion, Languages, Mandragora, Meditation, Quick casting, Spell Combination.(59)
- “a gallery filled with stuffed creatures” (59)
- Duels At school cost 500Dc for a visitor to watch. Opponents prepare in separate rooms, wooden seats set up to 10 tiers high around battle area, Battle area prepared with pits, Hallucinatory terrain, invisible monsters, etc. battle area diameter 50’circle bordered by Antimagic wall(61-62)
- Graduation Ground; detailed area and room descriptions and Map. Located underground. (90-91)
- Scale Touring & Party Gondola, 5.5 cm=21’, & 8.9 cm=36’respectively. (63)
- Map GSM and general description of use of areas, 1 inch= 20’scale mentioned. highly detailed, reflecting architecture & use of exposed areas, railing, plants, etc. (inner back cover)
- Map GSM in Glantri City map. No scale mentioned. (Back Glantri main map.)
Glantri Kingdom of Magic
- 845 AC -875 AC Construction GSM. (5)
- Imposing Building, Dark Grey Stone, Covered with Plates of Bronze, and silver decorations, Bronze oxidized green, One covered entrance by Alexander Platz (39)
- Several towers of various heights and shapes rise above the school (39)
- Highest tower is used by Grandmaster of the GSM (formerly Ettiene D’Ambreville, currently as per 1010AC Harald Haaskinz) (39)
- Building protected by magic, wards and guards.(39)
- Main Classroom Building (73)
- Secret libraries in forgotten corners (74)
- Many libraries +1 to craft (74)
- Former laboratories magic vs. effects destructive(74)
- Classes; Alchemy, Ancient History, Astrology, Brewing, Cooking, Disguise, Ettiquette, Firebuilding, Gemcutting, Herbalism, Languages (old & new), Glantrian History, Meditation, Navigation land-based, read/write, Riding(griffon), spellcraft, spellflash. (74)
- Map GSM in Glantri City map. no scale mentioned. (Back Glantri main map.)
Travel Journal Dar Inberlon (Glantri Kingdom of Magic)
- All Glantrian City structures are mostly Stone (Sviftmont 2) I added mostly
- Entrances to buildings are 5’to 6’above (average) water level.( Sviftmont 2)
- Walkways vary in condition per city quarter.( Sviftmont 2)
- It is possible to “stroll” through the city quarters. (Sviftmont 2)
Test of Darkness (Glantri Kingdom of Magic adventure)
- Picture labelled Great School of Magic (3)
- General Knowledge classes; Biology, Physics, Chemistry, World History, Glantrian History (3)
- Labelled GSM functions; Faculty Grandmaster, Faculty Administrator, Master of Admission, Student Administration, Laboratory Administration, Master Enchantments, Master Transmutations, Master Necromancy, Master Conjuration, Master Evocation, Master Illusions, Master Divination, Master Abjuration. (3)
- A pit opens to lower underground river.(13)
- Map Wizard Warrens
- Growing Darkness feeding of the light.
- Rumor on Wizard Warrens; Test area (Items/Species), hoards, Laboratories, Menageries, Testing Grounds.
Bruce Heard’s redrawing The Great School of Magic http://bruce-heard.blogspot.nl/2017/03/GlantriGSoM.html
- Although “tweaked” like he says, some interesting features can be found.
- Significant relocation of towers (sizes do not match the Gaz 3 inner cover map).
- Significant alteration of surface areas (Roofs, garden, garden paths, well, battlements, etc do not all match the Gaz 3 inner cover map).

- New addition of a “Golden” Statue of a male human figure with right hand up holding a normal sword, and left hand pointing forward, above main entrance area. According Bruce as his answer to my personal request this is either an image of Alexander Glantri or Ettiene D’Ambreville.I liked this one thus much, that I added it to my isometric map. Although the size seems a bit short though when following Bruce's scale; squares of 5'...which seem to give it a base of 2 sq. x2 sq.=10 sq feet., as such I estimate the statue to be between 20' to 25'.. I have chosen Alexander Glantri from Bruce's suggestion, more or less similar like the drawing on page 14 of Glantri Kingdom of Magic boxed set. I also chose Alexander because the statue holds a sword, and could thus designate a symbolic chance of greatness to those who enter, and because Alexander Glantri it is as old as the school itself.
Dragonlord Chronicles and Mystara History
- The location of Glantri City was the muddy city of Braejr. The books reveal that although most of the city was mud, stone surfaces reaching above the mud were used to construct buildings on.
DMR-TSR2510-AD&D2-Mystara-Player's Survival Kit
- holds a Great school of magic Glantri Final report card (handout 3)http://oi66.tinypic.com/dgkkn8.jpg
Wrath of the Immortals (book 2)
- another map of Glantri city and GSM with another Scale https://i.imgsafe.org/9401931a2a.png(60)
Fanbased (more or less officialised)
- Glantri was originally the location of the city Redfen of the New Blackmoor colony on Brun before the Great rain of Fire.(I believe Sturm created this, and was expanded by others, and I used it in the history of the Broken Lands.)
- Blackmoor used Concrete, Armored concrete, Carbon, and magically created stone to build their cities on. Other materials would have been burned, molted, stolen, disintegrated by time, or eroded away (wood, plastics, exposed metals, other organics)
This suggestes that the raised surfaces in Glantri, and earlier Braejr, did exist before much longer ...befitting the fanbased source...concrete(or similar) foundations of the lost city of Redfen. Thus suggesting and explaining many of the lower areas. This however does not explain the weird to almost ridiculous idea of the energy immrtals to hide the Blackmoor reactor of the USS Beagle after its explosion underneath the Ruins of Redfen, aka Braejr, aka Glantri City....but the ways of the Immortals are fickle, weird, egoistical, and ridiculous at the same time.
the few sections in Red I discarded due being waaaaaaay to different from earlier canon sources (Bruce's description of GSM surface areas, towers, rooofs, garden, etc), & Test of Darkness depiction (by picture) of the GSM vs Gaz 3= gaz 3 winner :mrgreen: )
10-05-2017 added copy GSM final report card for reference of classes looked upon...and Masters.
Last edited by Robin on Wed May 10, 2017 4:41 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Sat Apr 29, 2017 9:50 pm

All these sources carry canon information leading to the GSM, its appearance, function , and use.
All these combined with the fact that Gaz 3 notions that Glantri resembles Real World Venice, I mold these together for the vertical information (which is not mentioned further in either source, but marginally described by material only).
As such.this building I used as a main vertical source in archtecture to create the GSM (i did not copy it, but used the architectural style)
Image


I know Thomas Pizard has already created a map of various levels of the GSM, http://pandius.com/14379618_10209684404923329_3356873023846372361_o.jpg, http://pandius.com/14352208_10209684470124959_6804955550572879475_o.jpg...and more) yet this does not reflect normal architecture laws of Foundation, and Bearing, Solidity, etc(walls are never lines for example, but are sturdy and have meaning and thickness). As such I had to also remap (fill in) the various interior maps , according to these real & physical laws.

As currently I work on these interior maps, add the lower maps of Test of Darkness, and Gaz 3 Graduation Grounds, while removing the last flaws and add the various sections together, which exceeded the width of my isometric sheets.
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Hausman » Tue May 02, 2017 4:10 am

Robin wrote:Micky...??? :?: :(
Where are you?? :shock:
I need your Input... :geek:



Robin

The last time I contacted Micky was via PM on March 27, when I sent him a checklist - a short review list of the subjects he developed for glantri in 1020, so he would not forget anything about the completed plotline before sending ... but since So I had no return or reply from him .. probably there must have been some mishap that needed to move him momentarily away from the piazza ... it is still waiting for him. I hope he returns soon.

=/
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Tue May 02, 2017 12:12 pm

Hausman wrote:
Robin wrote:Micky...??? :?: :(
Where are you?? :shock:
I need your Input... :geek:



Robin

The last time I contacted Micky was via PM on March 27, when I sent him a checklist - a short review list of the subjects he developed for glantri in 1020, so he would not forget anything about the completed plotline before sending ... but since So I had no return or reply from him .. probably there must have been some mishap that needed to move him momentarily away from the piazza ... it is still waiting for him. I hope he returns soon.

=/

Thanx Hausman. :lol:
My last contact was the 24th of march :( ...the breakoff of contact is so sudden, that I am a bit worried ;( . He may be a loonie,fun and nerdy weird, but I care about this person.So I hope he doesn't walk in seven ditches at the same time (a dutch saying) :evil: and he will eventually popup again. :lol:
It however slows me down a bit, and restricts me a bit also, as input by the other main source is more than welcome. :shock:
I don't really like these sudden moments of silence since the sudden blackout of Julius Cleaver where I worked together with on the Great Pass....this temporarily halted that project(until he returns or I find someother means to continue there)...and I don't want to repeat that feeling/breakoff here :geek: ...so eitherway I will continue here. :ugeek: ..

I will reveall all isometric and archtectural sound internal maps together when the last one is finished. ...including the lower grounds, side view detail, and cutthrough...and....detailed interior descriptions making the GSM not only 3D but more 5D.... :mrgreen:

And maybe :geek: :mrgreen: ...some inventive 3D printer addict can make a treu 3D image out of this work then, that can be printed on a 3d Printer....so you can have the GSM on your desk :ugeek:
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Mon May 08, 2017 5:57 pm

Although the mystery of what has happened with our beloved Micky, I still continue with my work on the Great School of Magic.

In my research for the Great School of magic I had to inter the Test of Darkness adventure to know points of original access.
Test of Darkness warrens map reveals a map scaled 1 square of 5mm = 10’
It also thus reveals 25% of a darkened circle of which the center lies clearly within the corner below right.
The diameter of this circle is according the scale; 170mm =340’
It does NOT give a compass direction, as such was not needed by the adventure.

As the adventure describes that the heroes fell 30’deep in front of the administration tower in a water of 10’deep, we roughly gain a point of reference.
As the adventure begins in the underground river we thus know that this point of reference must thus lie IN this underground river. As the heroes follow the water down stream AND are fully within the eternal darkness.
There is also no reference of the darkness reaching the surface which is 30’higher, as thus we must assume that the globe of darkness is a globe segment of a greater globe of which the center lies deeper. The perimeter of darkness thus lies in an bend angle and NOT in a straight surface.
As such the diameter of darkness is affected by the angle of the globe’s surface; as thus the perimeter of the darkness as given on the map by a radius of 340’ can be assumed as reflecting the darkness at ground level, as such the perimeter of darkness at ceiling level thus would be less.

It can be assumed by the text of GKoM, Test of Darkness AND WotI, that the darkness is an effect caused by the radiance being turned to affect the sphere of entropy, and as the ToD adventure clearly states the Sphere is growing, it can best be assumed that each use of the radiance increases the sphere slightly.

As of 1010AC-1013AC (in which the adventure is based) the darkness has NOT yet reached the surface.
As according the WotI adventure the radiance lies 500’ deep, which is thus the center of the sphere.
The radius of the sphere is thus 500’. As this is stated canonically in several sources we must assume this is right.
However; the darkness affects the Wizardwarrens of ToD at -30’ , thus 470’ above the radiance.

Combining these sources we come to the mathematically fact that the darkness should have reached the surface significantly….which was clearly stated as being NOT the case.

As such we must assume that ToD must have some serious flaws;
At first the Size of the darkness sphere; 340’ is clearly too large. To prevent the darkness to reach the surface or other frequently used dungeons (at -10’according gaz3) below the GSM, the sphere must be either smaller and deeper.

This needs two possible solutions;
1; we alter the scale; best is to halve the scale; thus making 1 square 5’ and the other maps 1’ square 1.5’. Thus making the radius of the sphere 170’. This would top the sphere much lower also and keep it within the underground thus far.
2; we alter the depth of the adventure; according ToD 30’ can be increased to 50’. This enables to place the diameter of the sphere lower.
By doing both we enable all sources to be realistically (and mathematically) correct and feasible.

As working these readjusted data on the GSM maps (and estimating the hole created by the nemesis from the Administration tower by the art in ToD, as you see some of the GSM garden, and the average size of humans, you can calculate a lot to come to this.) the sphere of darkness will be 170’ at ground level of the ToD dungeon, 157’ at ceiling level(10’), yet still placing the Radiance below the GSM main building as suggested canonically in Gaz 3, GkoM and WotI.

If doing so we need to look at the given maps (Glantri city, GSM, and ToD warrens); we now know two points of reference; The administration tower and the hole caused by the ToD nemesis in front as point one and the rough location of the axis of the sphere right above the Radiance as being point 2. Which combined thus gives us a compass direction of the ToD warrens map top being directed almost South-Eastwards(5% off)

By doing so and referring to these the Axis must lie below the round tower on top of the GSM building.
If we overlay both maps we see some discrepancies between the canals and the airlock.
In the following map this overlap is visible, and the ToD wizard warrens map readjusted.
Funny things come out of this readjusted map; First much of the map is below Alexander Platz, the dead end on the warrens map is below the Silver Tower Inn; thus suggesting there was some connection before this way was closed off and became a dead end.
And as we lowered the warrens significantly, the canals still fit. The airlock at -50’ ends underneath Alexander Platz, and the Canals between Silver Tower in and the GSM are only 10-20’ deep as according canon sources
It also means the underground river originates somewhere North of the Silver Tower Inn and south of the Gorevitch-Voslany manor, which according canon could be the result of the water gates located her (this one would thus be located thus its direction causes flowing down old crevasses), but as this is elemental originated water and not local it does not cause a greater downflow and flooding below.

On the ToD map you see the black circle of the administration building right above the rectangular area with two tunnel next to eachother. This most probably has been the original point of entry, where one of the corridors had given acess to the upper areas....this acess is lost as the stairs have been removed (by whom is unknown, but the hole up in the ceiling might still exist but is shrouded in the eternal darkness. as thus I suggest of the two corridors the corridor most near the word "carrion crawler" had the former stairway.

Here the readjusted maphttp://6inchnails.deviantart.com/art/Readjusted-map-Wizard-Warrens-Test-of-Darkness-679486390

As you see I dug a little deeper in the sources as expected.
And more...will come up .
There is some delay due RL though.
Hope this keeps you happy thusfar.
:? :lol:
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Baron » Mon May 08, 2017 6:00 pm

Interesting. Although I once owned the 2nd ed boxed sets, I never read them.
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Tue May 09, 2017 3:09 pm

intersting indeed, the deeper i delve, the more falls into place...
i went thus far, i now have compiled the history of the GSM in more detail.


And using the History of Mystara document posted in Pandius. Here excerpts related to Glantri and the GSM in specific, with some additions of my own, to explain missing parts.
Last edited by Robin on Tue May 09, 2017 4:02 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Tue May 09, 2017 3:20 pm

as such the order of buildings of the GSM can be seen clearly



10-05-2017 Corrected some flaws and addd some details
Last edited by Robin on Wed May 10, 2017 1:48 pm, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Tue May 09, 2017 3:48 pm

I am currently working on the Administration tower, Wharehousem Griffon stable, Guardhouse, and the lower dungeons, as you could have presumed already by the Wuzardwarrens readjusted map.
I'll post these asap....together with the others, ..it is just that RL kicks in and delays me here way to much and too often.
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Hugin » Tue May 09, 2017 3:57 pm

Robin wrote:as such the order of buildings of the GSM can be seen clearly...

That's pretty cool, Robin. I love to see how things grow and develop like this (be it in Mystara or our real world). And making it appear in Mystara goes a long way to making it more 'real'!
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Tue May 09, 2017 4:06 pm

Hugin wrote:
Robin wrote:as such the order of buildings of the GSM can be seen clearly...

That's pretty cool, Robin. I love to see how things grow and develop like this (be it in Mystara or our real world). And making it appear in Mystara goes a long way to making it more 'real'!

tHANX hUGIN :P
That give me joy. :D :lol:
how hard it actually is..betwen juggling RL...and Mystara. :? :roll:
what comes out of this will be detailed as best I can. :mrgreen: :ugeek:
it just takes more time than I suspected :oops: ;(
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Thu May 11, 2017 10:40 pm

Ok to find out how many classrooms are needed I compiled all the Canon information together

Enunciation
Penmanship
Somatics
Monster Biology & Ecology
Memorization & Meditation
Theoretical Metaphysics
Spell Artistry
Alchemy
Politics
History of Magic

Special project!!This must be the personal research the student has to do according GKoM and Gaz3, and Rules Encyclopedia)
Source; Psurvival card

Biology, Physics, Chemistry, World History, Glantrian History
Source; GKoM ToD

Alchemy, Ancient History, Astrology, Cooking, Disguise, Etiquette, Firebuilding, Gemcutting, Herbalism, Languages(old & New), Glantrian History,Meditation, Navigation Land-based, read-write, Riding (griffon), Spellcraft, Spellflash
Source; GKoM

Agility Training, Conjure Companion, Languages, Mandragora, Quick casting, Spell Combination
Source; Gaz 3



Then the fanon list of Hausman ;)
Alchemy, ancient history, Astrology, Brewing, cooking, disguise, etiquette, firebuilding, gemcutting, herbalism, languages(ancient&modern), Local history(glntri), meditation, Navigation, reading/writing, riding(airborne), spellcraft, spellflash

Specialty Mage Classes Available: Abjurer, Conjurer, Diviner, Enchanter, Illusionist, Invoker, Necromancer, and Transmuter.


From a Dragon magazine article (I believe to remember) the following;Typical Courses in a Typical Academy Curriculum
The course of study varies from academy to academy, but most include the classes described below. Usually, all of these classes are required to graduate, but they might vary according to the needs of a specific student or the educational philosophy of a particular faculty. The length of time necessary to graduate also varies from school to school, depending on the student's aptitude, the intensity of the training, and the quality of the faculty, but generally, four to six years of full-time study are required to graduate from an accredited academy. This period can be lengthened by as much as two to four additional years if the student specializes in a particular school. A student usually takes four to six courses per quarter, with each quarter lasting three months. A minor course, such as Survey of Literature, might last only a single quarter, while a major course, such as Spell Tutorial, might be taken every quarter until the student graduates. An average course lasts one to two hours per day, four to six days per week, one to eight years long. The curriculum of a typical academy of magic includes the following courses.
Physical Training: Various exercises and activities to improve physical fitness, with an emphasis on dexterity training for manipulation of spell components.
Philosophy of Magic: The study of logical methods of thinking with applications to practical problems of spell use. Exploration of metaphysics, theory of knowledge, and ethics.
Basic Astrology: The relationship of the stars, planets, and other heavenly bodies to magical processes. Topics include lunar phases, astral movement, and the influence of deities.
Spell Theory: How spells function; spell interaction with physical laws.
Fundamentals of Meditation: Basic technques for reaching higher levels of intellectual perception. Topics include transcendence, self-actualization, and dream analysis.
Language Instruction:Grammar, phonetics, and conversational idioms of human, humanoid, and Demihuman languages.
History of Magic: Overview of wizards and magic throughout the ages with an emphasis on historical breakthroughs in spell research.
Magic and Society: The wizard as viewed from a cultural perspective. A survey of societal relationships and cross- cultural comparisons of wizards around the world(s).
Power Thinking: Emphasis on increasing the student's understanding of thinking as a process to increase the strength of his cognitive skills. Topics include creativity, memory, concentration, and problem solving.
Survey of Literature: An introduction to the study of magic literature, with an emphasis on analysis. A broad range of authors from a variety of cultures and historical periods are examined in detail.
Library Instruction: A survey of research techniques, including classification systems, spell indexing, basic reference books, and assembling a personal library.
Fundamentals of Spell Transcription: Topics include penmanship techniques, paper and ink selection, proper structure, revision, basic calligraphy, and proofreading.
Principles of Casting:An introduction to basic casting techniques of low-level spells. Includes component theory, spell design, and safety procedures. Instruction for specific schools of magic are available for prospective specialists.
Spell Tutorial:An individualized course tailored to meet the needs of individual students. Students can concentrate on improving skills in specific schools of magic or explore techniques from all schools.
Spell Seminar:A discussion group addressing topics of special interest to students, with an emphasis on problem areas. Students are expected to conduct demonstrations for the group, with criticism periods to follow.
Spell Practicum: Addressing low-level spells, the Practicum provides students with the opportunity to practice their skills in both a laboratory setting and in the field. Emphasis is on creative application.
Formula Analysis: Theory of spell formulas, emphasizing techniques applicable to original research. Topics include elementary spell functions, tabular and graphical presentation, variability, and metaphysical equations. Basic alchemical principles are covered in subsequent sessions of this course.
Laboratory Techniques:Practical application of the principles covered in Formula Analysis. Topics include Herbalism, alchemical reactions, natural and unnatural metabolism, and basic scientific procedures (all alchemical processes described earlier in this chapter).
Introduction to 1st Level Magic: 1st level spell instruction. Includes casting techniques, practical applications, and general theory. Individualized instruction available.


Together we get the following classes combined, consisting of several subclasses.
I followed the Glantrian Diplome card from the Players survival guide as a base.



If we add Specialty mage classes and secret crafts to this list a total of 45 classes and 32 libraries exist.
important remark to these though, that the secret crafts will have most probably secret rooms hidden below the GSM, outside the GSM(example cryptomancers), or even outside the Prime Plane (example Elementals and dream masters). Also note that some crafts are more or less connected to specialty classes and so may share some rooms/libraries.
As such I downplay the classrooms/libraries in total to 37/25...of which 30/18 would/could exist on the GSM grounds (including basements)...outside classes(not secret craft) are on a Dependance a few miles north of Glantri, due to space needed in these classes or outside forces/variations; Fire Building+Navigation(landbased)+Drafting(wagon) and Divination are taught there. There is magical Transportation between the GSM and this dependance).

Library Instruction and Survey of Literature will be teached at the Great Library and is a seperate series of lessons how to use the Library and to use books.On school libraries (excluding Great Library) follow the basic same logic, but may vary greatly as being often private collections given as gift to the school

How do you think about this?
17-05-2017 added Dependance info
Last edited by Robin on Wed May 17, 2017 2:12 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Baron » Thu May 11, 2017 10:50 pm

Kind of hard to comment. The Gaz was geared to Basic, and KoM was geared towards 2nd ed AD&D. I play 1st ed AD&D, so I gloss over mechanics that don't fit my system. If your supplement is all fluff, it doesn't really matter, but if things get too specific to a rules set, then I can't use it. For instance, I've never used the Gaz special abilities, and I don't use 2nd ed's specialized magic-users or kits. The most I might consider is gaining a specific non-weapon proficiency, if I could get it to fit 1st ed's system. So, that's pretty much all I have to offer. Unless you were planning to introduce such a heresy as to include cleric spellcasters in the Great School!
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Thu May 11, 2017 10:52 pm

Baron wrote:Kind of hard to comment. The Gaz was geared to Basic, and KoM was geared towards 2nd ed AD&D. I play 1st ed AD&D, so I gloss over mechanics that don't fit my system. If your supplement is all fluff, it doesn't really matter, but if things get too specific to a rules set, then I can't use it. For instance, I've never used the Gaz special abilities, and I don't use 2nd ed's specialized magic-users or kits. The most I might consider is gaining a specific non-weapon proficiency, if I could get it to fit 1st ed's system. So, that's pretty much all I have to offer. Unless you were planning to introduce such a heresy as to include cleric spellcasters in the Great School!


i do agree to a point;
it is a means for me as an attempt to deciphere the amount of classrooms, and other rooms within the GSM
i absolutely agree that the D&D-AD&D2 conversion even as canon made a mess (especially as GKoM changed a lot), however, in my attempt to combine these, this seems to fit well and being compatible.
also the proficiensies you speak about are mostly converted back to skills as according the Rules Cyclopedia.
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Thu May 11, 2017 11:09 pm

By the way the Gaz 3, GKoM have all extra skills
There exist several Intelligence and a few other skills usable by mages or wizard specialists which are more or less usable in their craft. Some examples are given here,in normal BECMI format.

Alchemy(IN)
This skill provides the character to recognize and identify common alchemical substances, potions and poisons. Success with this skill will allow a character to create an antidote potion for one specific poison type when possible. Alchemy is an integrated part of the profession skill Alchemist. Identifying will take 1 round to one turn, depending on the rarity of the product to be identified, and the accessibility to a laboratory and its quality (DM!!). A traveling alchemy-box will induce a penalty of 5 in addition to other penalties. This penalty will be raised by 1 for each test done after the box is first used, unless restocked (a box can generate the materials for 10 tests at most). Making alchemical substances can take much more time, ranging from one turn to several days, depending on the alchemical substance, the accessibility and its quality of a laboratory (DM!!). Antidotes to poisons can be created with at least an alchemy box at hand, at –5, or in a well-stocked laboratory. This takes 1d10 hours minimum, for each success roll smaller than 8 , add one hour, and the need of extra components in 1d4 hours minimal, or fail.

Alternate Magics(IN)
This skill gives a character basic familiarity with Magics that are not related to spellcasting. It includes knowing many magical abilities of well-known monsters of the Prime Plane and some of the Extra-Planar Planes or Immortal beings. The more common the creature, the more knowledge is accessed by use of this skill. The more rare the creature the longer it will take to identify the effect, or by the effect identifying the monster. The minimum is 1 round and this can take up to several hours when given access to a well-filled library.

Ancient History(IN)
This skill gives the character detailed knowledge of the history of a specific region, and general knowledge of the races living along the borders of the region. The character has learned the legends, lore, and history of some ancient time period globally or all history of a specific region. The knowledge must be specific in era or region. The knowledge acquired gives the character familiarity with the principal legends, historical events, characters, locations, battles, scientifical, cultural and magical breakthroughs, unsolved mysteries, crafts, and oddities of the time. The character must make a skill roll to identify places or things he encounters from that age. This skill take at least one round to use, but can take much more. This skill may be used a second time if a sufficient library is available, there it will take 1 hour + (20-1 Turn per point the skill was made successfully).

Astrology(IN)
This skill will give the character some understanding of the supposed influences of the stars and other celestial bodies. Knowing the place and time of birth of any person, the astrologer can study the stars and celestial events and then prepare a forecast of that person. The astrologer’s insight is normally limited to two moons (2x28 days) and the knowledge will be vague at best. When the skill check is made successful the astrologer can foresee some general event. (DM). This skill will also give the character a +1 bonus with the navigation skill. Astrologists dislike Astronomers, who they see as blind men with the light in front of them. Kings and other rulers use astrologers, therefore the profession skill Astrologer will also have Etiquette and Psychology, so they know how and when to tell how and what, be it real, wrong or just manipulative. This skill will take a lot of time; roll 2d30, this will be the amount of calculating hours needed to make a Horoscope or prediction.

Astronomy(IN)
This skill will give the character some understanding of the movement of the stars and other celestial bodies. Movements of celestial bodies, planets, comets, stars, and such can be precisely calculated. The astrologer’s insight is unlimited in time but the more calculation will be needed. The skill will also reveal how exact the astronomer has calculated the information. When the skill check is made successful the astronomer can foresee some general event, be it a conjunction of stars or planets, a comets coming, or a meteor. (DM). This skill will also give the character a +1 bonus with the navigation skill. Astronomers dislike Astrologists, who they see as fantasist. The astronomer will also have knowledge of the Planes as they are an intricate part of the Multiverse.. This skill will take a lot of time; roll 2d30, this will be the amount of calculating days needed to make a basic calculation.

Dowsing(IN)
The character has been trained in the use of a divining rod. While all Rhabdomancers begin with the spell to craft an effective rod, this skill covers the insight necessary to interpret the finer meanings of the wood’s tugging and twitching. Apprentice Rhabdomancers are taught in the guild the following tenant: The fork is held by the two limbs, one in each hand, with the point going first and the rod held horizontally. Then the Rhabdomancer walks gently over the places where he seeks an object or affection. He should walk with care to not risk dispersing the emanations that rise from the spot where these things are and would cause the rod to slant. For example, if the Magician is seeking a deposit of gold ore, upon finding a vein a successful dowsing check reveals the purity of the metal. The skill also affects the casting of various divination spells. Some of these are blocked by stonework, thick wood, or metal deposits. A skilled Rhabdomancer is able to pierce these “walls” with a successful dowsing check. Also, using this skill a Rhabdomancer can locate the proper sapling with which to craft a suitable divining rod. This skill takes as much time as the character uses the rod, but a survey can take from a Turn to several Turns.

Knowledge of… (IN)
The character is an expert in one field of study such as the culture or geography of an area, history, legends, theology, etc. A character can usually make his living by teaching his skill or acting as an expert on the subject; with a successful roll, he can make expert commentary on information relating to his skill. The skill must be specified to what knowledge it is directed. Of course can a character have multiple skills in different fields of study. Knowledge of Tribal Culture is the main ability of tribal sages versed in the tribal history, in most of the more primitive cultures, tribal history and culture are not written down, but are transmitted by word of mouth from sage to sage. The skill uses normally one round to know something or not, but when a suitable library is at hand a secondary check can be made, which takes 8 hours + 1 hour by which the skill rolled, to find the knowledge wanted if available. To tell the stories of culture or history it takes one to 5 hours, depending on the story.

Spellcraft(IN)
Although this Skill does not grant the character any spellcasting powers, it does give him familiarity with the different forms and rites of spellcasting. If he observes and overhears someone who is casting a spell, or if he examines the material components used, he can attempt to identify the spell being cast. A Skill check must be rolled to make a correct identification. Wizard specialists gain a +3 bonus to the check when attempting to identify magic of their own school. Note that since the Spellcaster must be observed until the very instant of casting, the Spellcraft Skill does not grant an advantage against combat spells. The Skill is quite useful, however, for identifying spells that would otherwise have no visible effect. This spell takes a minimum of 1 round per casting Time of the studied spell.

Spellflash(IN)
A particularly ‘Glantrian” skill, this showy ability allows a character to cast a spell in a flashier, more dramatic, and visually impressive manner. Casting brighter, more colorful fireballs, dazzling dancing lights, and fabulously intricate illusions result from spells cast after a successful skill check. Using this skill does not affect game mechanics in any way (except maybe morale by awe). Glantrian wizards merely use the skill in attempts to impress and outdo their fellows. About 75% of the time, a non-wizard will not even notice the extra dazzle. This skill takes no extra time, nor affects the casting time of any spell.

Mandragora (Wis)
This allows the Mage to recognize Mandragora plants, and safely harvest them. The roots can be used to make soporic or hallucinogenic drugs. A victim of the drug must make a Constitution check ; if failed he will fall asleep for 1d6 days, or answer the truth to 1d6+6 questions the Mage asks. Later can be learned to make a Manakin from the root of the plant. The locating of the root in its correct landscape (swamp, wet-forest, moor, bog, dead river-arms, etc.)will take 24+2d30 days. The harvesting (only at a full moon) will take at least 4 hours (a black dog, a rope, wax are needed). The making of the concoction (choose while making what sort of effect is wanted) will take 4 hours. The concoction will be usable for 1 moon at most or turn into a poison BB.

Meditation (Wis) (known only in the Great School of Magic, or by teachers from the GSM)
This helps the character reach a higher level of intellectual perception. After an hour of preparation (absolutely quiet=not silent) the wizard gains a modifier to his Intelligence check according following table. Inform the DM before meditating what problem is wished to be solved. This effect lasts until the ability check meditated for is attempted. Meditation improves chances of discovering new spells, enchanting items, or conjuring a companion. Only one meditation check must be made each waking period, but each day the ability meditated for is used, must also be meditated for. This will prolong the ability by 1 hour each waking period.
Level|Adjustment

Quick casting (Wis) (known only in the Great School of Magic, or by teachers from the GSM)
This allows a magic-user to cast spells more quickly. If at the beginning of a round, the magic-user states that he has everything ready to cast the spell intended and succeeds this skill roll the intended spell is cast +1 on initiative faster than normal. Spell that take longer than 10 rounds casting time are improved by 5%, spells that take more than 1 Turn are improved by 10%. If he changes his mind he must shuffle his components and break of the spell he was casting an can’t do anything else that round or let it go off as intended beforehand. This skill in itself doesn’t take time to use.

Spell combination/mixing (Wis)(known only in the Great School of Magic, or by teachers from the GSM)
This technique allows a magic-user to mix his spell-levels in any combination, so long as the total spells do not exceed his capacity or the maximum spell allowed each level based upon his Intelligence (see spell miscasting). For example; a level for wizard normally casts 2 1st level spells, 2 2nd level spells (for a total of 6 spell levels ) with this technique , he can choose to memorize 6 1st level spells or 3 2nd level spells, or any appropriate combination. This skill doesn’t need to be rolled for. It is automatically infused in the meditation of the spells as normal, as long as it is known, and the meditation for spells is undisturbed. This skill does take no time to use.

Agility Training (Dex)
This allows the Magic-user to be able to cast spells while moving. This can only be done at normal walking pace, riding a mount or dodging attacks will impose a severe penalty (up to –10) on the check. If the check is failed the spell is disturbed. The usage of this skill takes no time, but can only be done when able to move and act normally.

Language(IN)
The character can speak, understand (and read, and write if his Intelligence is high enough) a language. The language use this way is more slowly, and simpler. If the character is listening to someone who is excited or using technical speech, he must make his skill roll to understand the language. Failure means he did not understand what was said. The character speaking a skill language communicates in the same way. When he is struggling to explain something fast, complicated, or technical or when flustered or excited, he must make a skill roll to get the idea across.
Languages, Ancient: The character has mastered a difficult and obscure tongue, now primarily found in the writings of pedantic sages and sorcerers. The main use of the language is to read tomes of ancient secrets written by long-dead mystics. This Skill enables the character to either read or write or speak the language (his choice, but enough Intelligence is needed).
Languages, Modern: The character has learned to Speak/Read/Understand/Write a language of the known world. To do so, there must be a teacher available.
Languages, Modern Basic; the character has spent lifetime studying languages and their origins. On a successful check, the character picks up a few words of a conversation or manages to say a word in a language he’s otherwise not familiar with. Modifiers are applied to the frequency of the language. For instance, when the character hears harsh guttural words and recognizes it as Orcish, she could make a check against this skill as she speaks no Orcish. If successful, she could make out words like “prisoner” and “door”. Later she runs across some Gnolls, an uncommon race. As they come to attack, she makes a check at –2 to say “friend” in Gnollish, the check fails, and her cry of “cheese” does nothing to stop the Gnolls. This skill takes as much time as the normal conversation would, but a minimum of 1 round or 10 sentences to listen.

Magic Energy Conservation (IN)
This skill can only be taken by magic Spellcasters. It’s learned primarily at the Alphatian University of Magic in Sundsvall until 1009 AC. After the destruction of Alphatia, only survivors on other continents still know this skill. Even the Glantrian Great School of Magic, and other Magic Universities are unaware of it. When in 1011AC the new Magic School of Karameikos (Krakatos) is opened by the former Alphatian Great Master, the skill becomes more widely known. It allows the Spellcaster to conserve energy that normally is wasted, by not casting spells. The energy is collected for use as Cantrips. Each day, a character with this skill may freely cast one cantrip spell for each 9 not cast spell-levels, the day before sleeping. The usage of this skill takes 1 Turn of memorization prior Spell memorization of that day.

Magic Trivia.(IN)
This skill allows the character to develop a hint as to the contents of a magical scroll, tome, or rune prior to using a read magic spell. The hint is vague but still useful. Further, the character may make use of knowledge possessed by the player with respect to magical effects encountered in the game, in the same manner as is done for the Monster Trivia skill. Usage is 1 round minimum.

Magical Engineering(IN)
This is the ability to recognize the basic principles of some unfamiliar magical devices. It does not include practical training in design or fabrication magical artifacts. It does allow the character to recognize uncommon magical items or to distinguish trapped or cursed items from safe ones. This skill will take 20 - the difference of success in rounds of time.

Planar Geography(IN)
This skill gives the character a general knowledge of the Prime, Inner, and Outer, Astral and Ethereal Planes. This skill includes knowledge of techniques of survival or travel among the Planes and common inhabitants of these Planes. The greater the distance the more difficult the skill becomes, for each Border crossed the character get a penalty of 2. This skill takes 1 Turn at least to use, when equipment is used; the time is doubled for each piece of equipment used (like maps, astrolabe, etc.).

Science (choose type)(IN)
The character is an expert in one branch of scientific study such as Astronomy, Geology, Metallurgy, etc. Characters with this skill can make their living with it, usually as specialist in large cities. This skill is greatly unknown in unschooled areas, like the wilderness, and even marginally known in areas outside the great cities. The more civilized the area is the more reasonable it is for a character to have this skill. The character can have several Science skills in different fields. Astronomy, Biology, Geology, Metallurgy, Avialogy, Meteorology, Sociology, Psychology, Theology, Anatomy, Topography, Technology, Oceanography, Botany, Ecology, Zoology etc. The usage of this skill takes upon the task, the accessibility to a library, and other circumstances. This can take from one turn to several hours.

I know this is a bit sidetrack of the topic, but I explains the skill use of these skills as extra above what is mentioned in the RC, Gaz3, GKoM, making it more usable.

More on the GSM soon
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Hausman » Fri May 12, 2017 2:56 am

This is really getting very good, Robin !

= )
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Fri May 12, 2017 4:36 pm

Thanx Hausman ;)

As my research continues I had to readjust my readjusted Test of Darkness map, by adding the Testing Grounds from Gazetteer 3, and some rooms for the Secret Water Elemental Craft.

The first I added here as the size of the room , but also its shape reflected more the technical use of the former Blackmoor era in their gas drill and machinery. The round rooms instantly resembled to me temporary storage units for gas, like they did in my Real Life Province of Groningen Netherlands.
I had to readjust the size to fit the GSM scale of 1 inch =40 feet, as I did with the ToD map.
The chambers of the Secret Craft of Water Elementalism I placed here too as the water coming and going through Elemental Water gates would surely attract the mages working with this nearby.
http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/art/Readjusted-map-Wizard-Warrens-Test-of-Darkness-679486390

As my research continues, I seem to be delving deeper also.

Layering the layers below the GSM

I have colored blue those designations dating from the Blackmoor era, these are unknown, and if found, not understood as such by today persons.
Keep in mind that not only the deeper regions are less known and used, but are also subjected more the effects of the Radiance (first of all its radiation/wasting Disease..which can be contracted in all areas below chamber 00, not above as their is a natural layer of rocksalt blocking the effects somewhat, but enough to prevent the radiation's direct effects.)
Of course, I will update this list with further designations, but until now this is as far as I compiled from the canon sources.

There only stays one question;
The ToD placed a sphere of Light-absorbing Darkness in the area, this was suggested to be linked to the Radiance further below. However, it also seems that this darkness first came to be at the end of WotI, when entropy was used instead of Energy to drain from.
This poses for some troubles thou; as each drain of the radiance by its users increases the diameter of this sphere of Light-absorbing Darkness somewhat, it will already affect the lower dungeons severely, and eventually even the upper dungeons, until it breaches the surface affecting the GSM more and more.
However, As I noticed there are also mentions that the Radiance drains anew from Energy instead of Entropy, it deems me that OR this sphere of Light-absorbing Darkness is only a shell shaped sphere of Light-absorbing Darkness instead a full globe, OR it already ceased to be in 1013 AC just after TOD was set(1010-1013AC).
How do you think about this??
    Would the sphere of Light-absorbing Darkness still exist and grow? and thus nullifying the affected areas its use.
    Would the sphere of Light-absorbing Darkness be a shell of a specific width(reflecting the time it was draining from Entropy--estimating a 20-40')..this would limit the nullifying use to the affected areas, but the deeper areas would become usable again.
    Would the sphere of Light-absorbing Darkness cease to exist, and become energized again, preventing light to be absorbed.
The first two choices would eventually in the future deem of nation charisma as negative as it swallowed up all by darkness.
If it is the first option, this would become a haven for undead and creatures with infravision, as they can still see as normal

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/underthedome/images/9/9c/Black_Dome.png/revision/latest?cb=20130929142543
So this is my pondering on a nasty issue, what are your thoughts on this?
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Baron » Fri May 12, 2017 5:28 pm

I don't play WOTI, my campaign is more steady-state. Any changes to our world will be made by the actions of my players, or by my own development. That being said, I'd still avoid placing yet another mechanism that changes the setting for the players. Therefore my suggestion would be that if there is a Sphere, it stays below ground and is static.
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Sat May 13, 2017 10:34 am

Baron wrote:I don't play WOTI, my campaign is more steady-state. Any changes to our world will be made by the actions of my players, or by my own development. That being said, I'd still avoid placing yet another mechanism that changes the setting for the players. Therefore my suggestion would be that if there is a Sphere, it stays below ground and is static.


There is nothing wrong with playing a static world where all seems to be turning around the PC's or caused by them. :o ;)
However, as Mystara is a living world, where like the real world, lots and lots of things happen beyond the scope of the NPC's and the DM, if rightly played gives, in my humble opinion, much more satisfaction. :ugeek: :lol:
Of course there are holes in what is created, like the Great School of Magic; its detailed exterior, Interior, History, and use.This is what I intend to display following all compiled Canon leads from all Mystara sources, however minute, and then add some fanon sources, followed by some artistic input by my own phantasy.
Of course I hope players and DM's using Mystara (BECMI style---but adaptable easily to AD&D1 & 2, and some more DM work even D&D 3rd,3.5th, 4th, 5th, D20.)wil enjoy my compilation input.
I at least enjoy creating and compiling it, and the create further. Due this I not only make a flat 2-dimensional (maybe eve 1-dimensional linear) source, but I intend to make it 3-dimensional, and by inserting materials, scents but especially Time and its influences, a 5th dimensional version....just like I try to do with all my works.

as such I cherish any input usable....and compile it together.....as far as Real Life enables this.
so keep up coming those ideas :mrgreen:
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Tue May 16, 2017 4:39 pm

As I worked on the Isometric map, and inspected the details I came up with this on topic sidestep; A sideview of the South west corner of the GSM as seen from the south.
As Glantri is based on Venice, I based the basic architecture on Venice.
This sideview I based on the work of (venice_doge_s_palace_by_herbertrocha-d751j9v), which I could alter reasonably easily to what My Isometric maps of the Great School of Magic had already givem and now I placed the details; Silver filegree wall decoration, Dark Grey stone, Corroded copper plates, and some frther detailing.

Hope you like this. :o :? :lol:
http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/art/Great-School-of-Magic-Southwest-Corner-Sideview-680929667
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Robin » Fri May 19, 2017 12:02 am

Ok.. Finally :o I succeeded in digitizing (JPG) my restored and redrawn Isometric maps of the Great School of Magic :lol: :lol: :mrgreen: :o

Something bugged me a long time ago. It was the Gazetteer 3 Principalities of Glantri; an outstanding work by our beloved Bruce Heard, our Mystara Spirit. The book gave us stacks of intense usable information, yet it also gave some incomplete material. The AD&D2 adaptation of Mystara and the Glantri Kingdom of Magic, Wrath of the Immortals, Poor Wizard Almanacs, Castle Amber, DM Survival Guide and Players Survival Guide, added some information, but holes stayed, or more were created due the awful desecration of Gazetteer 3. Many flaws have crept in, and areas left open. Areas you actually need in playing the Great School of Magic in Glantri on Mystara, BECMI style (or actually any D&D style)!!

I searched and searched, found and compiled, not only from the canon sources, but also with the help of some fan work. It was in those days I created some Isometric maps of the Great School of Magic In Glantri City. The difficulty was that various canon sources gave various scales to work upon, and Bruce Heard added yet another. Combining size and reason/logic together I came finally upon the scale of 1 inch =40 feet (1mm= 1.27 feet) to be used from the original map in the inside cover of Gazetteer 3, instead 1 inch =20’. From this size I had made an simple Isometric version of the same map. And I already started to make the vertical information, according to canon sources…then Real Life kicked in, and I had to store my stuff. Here the maps were damaged by moisture and mice. Just recently I rediscovered these maps, and decided to restore or redraw them. I actually went beyond that, I made two more Isometric maps from other directions, enabling the Great School of Magic to be viewed from all directions. With this more detail came an about the inside, and following the canon sources with architectural laws for stability, strength, and consistency I now even created the inside floor plans, first in pencil, later clarifying with Windows Paint.


Rereading all the canon sources, and the newer fanon sources, more information was added, A timeline came forth, and the various uses canonically of the rooms made even more clarity.

These map are thus large in size that If you can't view this map here, try the download button right(green arrow button), of the picture, then it will open a new screen where it can be viewed and downloaded.

The other maps (thus far) in this series are in the following Links;
(Their orientation is as seen towards the first compas note and from the second compas note)
Glantri Great School of Magic isometric NE-SW http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/art/Glantri-Great-School-of-Magic-isometric-NE-SW-681339156
Glantri Great School of Magic isometric SE-NW http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/art/Glantri-Great-School-of-Magic-isometric-SE-NW-681340444
Glantri Great School of Magic isometric SW-NE http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/art/Glantri-Great-School-of-Magic-isometric-SW-NE-681340746

Basement level 3rd layer; Wizard Warrens; GSM lower 3rd[url]
Wizard Warrens;http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/art/Readjusted-map-Wizard-Warrens-Test-of-Darkness-679486390[/url]

Sideview Southwest corner GSM;Sideview[url]GSM Sideview; http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/art/Gr ... -680929667[/url]

I am currently working on the handmade maps of the internal areas (architecturally sane and stable :shock: ), and making them digitally representabl ;) e....and doing some other related stuff :twisted: .
I hope you will like these too, like I do... :mrgreen: .



As to Shawn; If you post these on Pandius keep them together if possible, as some more maps will be added, possible with the text.

To Bruce Heard; Thanx for writing Gazetteer 3, and communicating with me on the scale and some details. Please enjoy .

And to Micky...I hope you are well enough to see and enjoy these
Last edited by Robin on Fri May 19, 2017 12:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
My Deviantart page; http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/ For Mystara hexmaps and Fantasy art (to see all fantasy art; enter and declare you are an adult...frigging exposure rules)
My personal Mystara Blog;http://breathofmystara.blogspot.nl/
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Robin
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Re: [Glantri] The Great School of Magic

Postby Baron » Fri May 19, 2017 12:09 am

Wow, that's exciting! I'm really looking forward to the digital versions!
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Baron
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