Lupins as Atruaghin Clansmen

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Cthulhudrew
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Lupins as Atruaghin Clansmen

Post by Cthulhudrew » Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:25 am

Just a concept I was toying with earlier today, but what do the rest of you think about replacing the human tribes of Atruaghin with Lupins instead? Lupin culture has been described in terms resembling that of native american cultures in various places (Savage Coast materials, a Dragon magazine article, and one or two other places, IIRC). I was thinking this might give them a somewhat more unique niche on Mystara than they currently have and might make an interesting change.

Of course, that would have bigger ramifications than just the Atruaghin Clans tribal lands; I'd need to think how that might reflect on the Azcan and Oltec cultures of ancient history, and what that would mean for those peoples' interactions with human societies, changes that it would subsequently have on Mystara history, not to mention the Hollow World.
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Re: Lupins as Atruaghin Clansmen

Post by Mike » Thu Mar 08, 2018 4:37 pm

I've been thinking lately that each of the the cultures might have a different home continent as their "cradle" or at least current geocultural center. My initial thought is to put the tanagoro in skothar, neathar in Brun, and oltec in Davania.

Obviously the KW is a crossroads and a patchwork, but central/western Brun would be primarily neathar, central/eastern skothar primarily tanagoro lands, and central/southern Davania would have many oltec groups. Such a scheme would provide a loose blueprint for how to flesh out these continents, keeping in mind there are lots of humanoid and isolated groups sprinkled in as well, as is seen on the savage coast. Everything touching the sea of dread or sea of dawn is a patchwork of mixed groups, not homogenous.

In such a scheme id move Atruaghin to Davania, maybe SE of the hinterlands and SW of the Milenians (both of which are immigrant neathar cultures of course)

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Re: Lupins as Atruaghin Clansmen

Post by Chimpman » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:52 pm

This is an interesting idea! I've actually toyed with the idea of wolf-people in a "native-american" like culture (see Windswpet Worlf - though those ideas were never fully fleshed out).

Are you thinking of retconning it so that all "peoples" of Azcan descent are lupins? Or are you just thinking about integrating some lupin peoples into the Atraughin clans? I think both ideas have some merit, depending on the amount of change that you want to introduce into the campaign.

With the amount of cat imagery that normally accompanies the Azcans/Aztecs would it be more natural to make them rakasta rather than lupin? I didn't quite go that far when working up my Azcan article for Threshold #9 (Children of Azca), but I did have the Azcans conquering/integrating several rakasta tribes into their own culture.

Another idea (sorry, I'm just transcribing a bunch of random brain farts at this point), but what if Azcans remained human, but actually conquered/assimilated several other races pre-GRoF? They could have assimilated both lupin and rakasta tribes, resulting in pocket populations of these folk with Azcan culture ingrained into their lives. Perhaps after the Azcans fled beneath the Great Plateau in BC 2800, all that remained on the outer world were the tribes of humanoids. The lupins may have gone on to form the Atraughin Clans (and been contacted and led by Atraughin when he emerged from the Hollow World), while perhaps a few rakasta tribes held onto the "old ways" (eventually becoming Tiger/Viper Clan).
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Re: Lupins as Atruaghin Clansmen

Post by Mike » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:12 pm

I would think that there would be a connection between Atruaghin lupins, hutaakans and possibly gnolls and kobolds, both of whom are dog-like. Like how elves and dwarves are demi-humans (and tend to work together), maybe hutaakans and gnollsa and kobolds are demi-lupins. Lupins are human-like, hutaakans are elf-like and magical, gnolls are dwarf-like and tough, and kobolds are halfling-like. Not exactly inter-fertile subraces, but definitely related. It also strikes me that there may be a link also to the werewolves of Traladara and Glantri... a sort of demi-canine racial group?

If lycanthropy was a disease (from Taymor?) perhaps it was an attempt by renegate Lupin priests to "transform" other races into demi-lupins via a magical contagion, like a genetic engineering or zombie virus. But it only halfway succeeded, resulting in victims being caught halfway through the transition.

Rakasta could similarly be related to bugbears (who are sometimes described as purring) and weretigers. I can't think of any other canonical feline folk, which is kind of surprising. Since Lion Castle exists on the plains of Ethengar it seems reasonable that there was once a Rakasta presence on the plains, leaving behind a sphinx-like ruin. The wizard of Lion Castle did not build it, only refurbished the ancient enigma he found there. Perhaps there are ancient rakasta secrets beneath the castle.

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Re: Lupins as Atruaghin Clansmen

Post by Mike » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:14 pm

If the Tiger/Viper clan is related to Rakasta, maybe it is also related to ancient lizard-men from Malpheggi, or a venomous "serpent-man" variant? Rakasta and Malpheggi could have coexisted or competed in the region before the arrival of humans.

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Re: Lupins as Atruaghin Clansmen

Post by Cthulhudrew » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:46 pm

Chimpman wrote:Are you thinking of retconning it so that all "peoples" of Azcan descent are lupins? Or are you just thinking about integrating some lupin peoples into the Atraughin clans? I think both ideas have some merit, depending on the amount of change that you want to introduce into the campaign.
I hadn't gotten very far with the idea yet, but yeah- I was thinking that all of what are currently known as the Atruaghin (human) clansmen would be lupins instead. Given how much the Oltec figure into the ancestry of so many human cultures, though (Savage Coast, Sind, among others) that might be problematic, so I was toying with the idea of having either the ancient Oltecs or the ancient Azcans be lupins and the other human (and thus the great war between them would be as much of a racial war as a cultural one).
With the amount of cat imagery that normally accompanies the Azcans/Aztecs would it be more natural to make them rakasta rather than lupin? I didn't quite go that far when working up my Azcan article for Threshold #9 (Children of Azca), but I did have the Azcans conquering/integrating several rakasta tribes into their own culture.
Hm, that's an interesting idea. What if the Oltecs and Azcans were Lupins and Rakasta instead of humans? I'm going to have to give that some thought. Again, there would be a lot of historical issues to resolve, but that could result in the modern Atruaghin lands being populated by both races (the Rakasta being the modern Tiger Clan).
Another idea (sorry, I'm just transcribing a bunch of random brain farts at this point), but what if Azcans remained human, but actually conquered/assimilated several other races pre-GRoF? They could have assimilated both lupin and rakasta tribes, resulting in pocket populations of these folk with Azcan culture ingrained into their lives. Perhaps after the Azcans fled beneath the Great Plateau in BC 2800, all that remained on the outer world were the tribes of humanoids. The lupins may have gone on to form the Atraughin Clans (and been contacted and led by Atraughin when he emerged from the Hollow World), while perhaps a few rakasta tribes held onto the "old ways" (eventually becoming Tiger/Viper Clan).
Definitely something to consider, as well. I think for sure that I'd like to see some more lupin and rakasta integration into the Known World, as opposed to how things stand now with them really being a minor part.

That said, I was also thinking of having the Ochaleans predominantly being rakasta (and not Alphatian humans), with the Atruaghin being lupins. Part of it has to do with some rethinking of how to portray those races in class/race terms for a kind of "rework" of the BECMI rules that I'm working on, and providing some different class options that are more exclusive to rakasta and lupin, rather than just having them use the standard human classes (or monster rules).
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