Day of Dread around Mystara

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Sturm
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Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by Sturm » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:20 pm

Joshuan's Almanac p 237 says the phenomenon occurs simultaneously worldwide, so Magic fails one hour after midnight for every 15 degrees of longitude east of Glantri city and before to the west. It seems it is not the midnight of 27 Kaldmont all over the world, but 6 AM of 28 Kaldmont 90' east of Glantri and 6 PM of 27 Kaldmont 90' west of Glantri, so at 180' midday of 28 Kaldmont.
This mean the Day of Dread actually begns in the evening of 27 Kaldmont in Western Brun and Western Davania, 3 AM of 28 Kaldmont in Alphatian sea/Bellisaria, early morning of 28 Kaldmont in Minaea, morning of 28 Kaldmont in Tangor, Midday of 28 Kaldmont in Eastern Skothar, while in the Farend Ocean is the afternoon of 27 or 28 Kaldmont, depending on the line of date change in a hypothetical common world calendar.
Still in Western Brun and Davania the Day of Dread begins in the evening to the evening after, while in Eastern Skothar from midday to midday, and in Glantri city from midnight to midnight.
I see why designers did this, otherwise a mage could just change time zone to avoid the failing of magic.
But the fact this was published in the Joshuan Almanac means we have to assume it is public knowledge by 1,013 AC that the effect is centered on Glantri city. Eventually other nations around the world will learn about this. Alphatian survivors, dragons, Hule, Herath or even far nations like Pelatan, which I imagined as powerful in magic.
Their natural reaction should be something like this:
"Our spies has found out it's probably something under Glantri city causing this".
"We have to stop them. Let's occupy that nation and torture the wizards until we discover why"
"They have allies"
"We have too, and we will find many others when we say we can stop the Day of Dread"
"And if the wizards do not talk?"
"We will destroy the place above and below ground until this stops".

Therefore, even if the Nucles of the Sphere does not nuke the nation, or Dolores does not destroys it, Glantri is doomed anyway, don't you think? :D
Last edited by Sturm on Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:37 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by Robin » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:00 pm

Sturm wrote:
Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:20 pm
<t>JA p 237 says the phenomenon occurs simultaneously worldwide, so Magic fails one hour after midnight for every 15 degrees of longitude east of Glantri city and before to the west. It seems it is not the midnight of 27 Kaldmont all over the world, but 6 AM of 28 Kaldmont 90' east of Glantri and 6 PM of 27 Kaldmont 90' west of Glantri, so at 180' midday of 28 Kaldmont. <br/>
This mean the Day of Dread actually begns in the evening of 27 Kaldmont in Western Brun and Western Davania, 3 AM of 28 Kaldmont in Alphatian sea/Bellisaria, early morning of 28 Kaldmont in Minaea, morning of 28 Kaldmont in Tangor, Midday of 28 Kaldmont in Eastern Skothar, while in the Farend Ocean is the afternoon of 27 or 28 Kaldmont, depending on the line of date change in a hypothetical common world calendar. <br/>
Still in Western Brun and Davania the Day of Dread begins in the evening to the evening after, while in Eastern Skothar from midday to midday, and in Glantri city from midnight to midnight. <br/>
I see why designers did this, otherwise a mage could just change time zone to avoid the failing of magic.<br/>
But the fact this was published in the Joshuan Almanac means we have to assume it is public knowledge by 1,013 AC that the effect is centered on Glantri city. Eventually other nations around the world will learn about this. Alphatian survivors, dragons, Hule, Herath or even far nations like Pelatan, which I imagined as powerful in magic.<br/>
Their natural reaction should be something like this:<br/>
"Our spies has found out it's probably something under Glantri city causing this".<br/>
"We have to stop them. Let's occupy that nation and torture the wizards until we discover why"<br/>
"They have allies"<br/>
"We have too, and we will find many others when we say we can stop the Day of Dread"<br/>
"And if the wizards do not talk?"<br/>
"We will destroy the place above and below ground until this stops". <br/>
<br/>
Therefore, even if the Nucles of the Sphere does not nuke the nation, or Dolores does not destroys it, Glantri is doomed anyway, don't you think?</t> :D
I dont know what you mean with <br/>, or <t>JA but I agree that Glantri is doomed anyway. I am sure you will like my solution to this...just wait for the proofreaders finishing. YOU know what I am talking about ;)
To come back to your idea...Since Alphatia is gone and Glantri has no world domination or expansionistic ideas, most nations (even if they discover the source of the day(s) of dread is/are Glantri City) wouldn't know anything of a source of magic (and even deny it poiting towards the immortals as a way of punishing the mortals for whatever), this would also make loose a discussion; why would mages make magic dissapear and become victimized by it themselves. They would not automatically think it is something underground, but would know only it is centered in Glantri City, and unknown to the populace (hence well hidden between the many secrets Glantri has. The search for this would either impy finding the source by the use of crystals like the Brotherhood of the Radiance does, (and keep in mind even they do NOT know the source of the Radiance is buried below them, they only know it is centered upon the city, where princes are ranked in power settlement depending on their power; they thus might more easily believe the radiance would be a source created either naturally or created by themselves (unaware)), and using it themselves. therefor they must settle near to Glantri, and if succesful would add to the degredation of the Nucleus of Spheres. The effect is not important enough to make an political based descission, on a short (aka decades) time , especially not on countries far away. Especially not, when these spies would notice the casualties are the greatest among the glantrians themselves; and thus would be more logical an unknown (natural??, demonic?, planar??, or??) source.
It would be even more logical foreign magical nations (thus also with los of damages and casualties) would try to work together with Glantri to resolve the problem. Yet this would take so much time the world changes inbetween, making finding the source even more difficult.
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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by Robin » Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:54 pm

btw...the growing Shell of Darkness (as canon per Test of Darkness from GKoM, and detailed here http://www.pandius.com/radusage.html), greatly will diminish war and spying from foreign nations, and many which have embassies will prefer to leave if able, instead investigating...better send suicidal adventurers into that growing pit of magic and darkness than to be swallowed themselves.

More on this soon...very soon :)
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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by BotWizo » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:09 pm

I have to agree with Sturm.
When it becomes common knowledge it is centered on Glantri, then look out, all that detest the day will go to the source and try and destroy it. It is irrelevant what Glantri's position is unless they are able to quickly stop it.
Therefore the almanac author's didn't realize that it would become an eternal war zone when beings are trying to find and destroy the source.
People could easily determine the focal point by times and then go after it.
Number of casualties at the source would be a non factor, some would assume it was an experiment gone wrong and that it must be shut down, etc.
If you are hindering the search for the problem, then likely you are part of the problem and they wont listen to pleas otherwise.
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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by Sturm » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:21 am

Well, replying to Robin and all,
I think if not immediately in the space of a few years everyone will know that something under Glantri city is causing this.
In canon Etienne D'Amberville threatened Alphatia with some magical weapons, and then Alphatia was hit, and many Alphatian knew this, all thousand wizards for start. Then there were the adventurers who saw the Nucleus and its powers, would not they say something about this? It seems difficult that the news does not come out somehow.
At the very least, Glantri city will be soon thick with adventures trying to find the source of what happened.
I find it very likely that powerful beings such as Beholders, Dragons or Giants may gather a large number of their folk, or even band together, to go to Glantri city demanding answers, and deciding to just destroy the place if they not get good ones.
Sure by offering cooperation Glantri may be able to forestall the attack for a while. But what about Alphatia? Even if it was destroyed in your campaign (not in mine) there are still thousands of Alphatian wizards around, very motivated to gather a huge magical force to exact revenge on Glantri and stop the Day of Dread. If they do not do it, HW Alphatia will do it, eventually. It seems very unlikely they may forget or forgive.
The growth of the darkness will only make more clear to the world that something is happening there, and more likely other powers will simply decide to destroy the place down to the ground until the darkness disappears.
All considered, I do not see a way for Glantri to escape destruction, unless they publicy say there is something wrong and invite wizards from all over the world to study it and stop the Day of Dread. The secret is simply not a secret anymore..

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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by Robin » Fri Sep 21, 2018 11:54 am

I don't think directly UNDER glantri, but more within.

I totally agree the Alphatians were on the brink of wiping Glantri from the face of Mystara. If it was not for Alphatia being destroyed (aka moved to the Hollow World). If they were not removed, their should have been a massive reason why they stopped attacking occupying Glantri, and Thyatis. And this reason might also be why they would not attack....mmaybe...and this is just a suggestion; the Test of Darkness adventurers would enhold at least one Alphatian origin character.; maybe the overwhelming darkness would be the reason.And as that darkness is growing, it will destroy Glantri...at least that assumption would lay credit to not attacking Glantri, yet would impose scrutinizing that nation of nations in detail. And the mages which succeed in gaining acces to the Radiance (remind there is no Rad around to restrict the members growth) would only increase the Sphere of darkness and thus would assume the alphatians are on the right way of defeating /overpowering glantri...until a week of no magic appears anew...and then it is actually too late...for glantri...and magic as the mystarans know...the decline will commence as the secret is now out. what happens to the nation is something different; it will probably fall apart due external influences.

and if alphatia was destroyed; It would be too fragmented and too egoistical individually to make such an effort (and leave their lands open to invade--as they have made many, many enemies). i agree they wonn't forget, and won't forget at all... yet their abilities doing so are limited or restricted; first most of their spells no longer work in the HW, and even if it would on their floating isle they would have to reach the OW massivly...I don't think they would do so.

Adventurers (aka spies, demoliahers, murderers, secret agents) sending from any of this options however, is something understandable, and possible, yet this would not make a stop to the day of dread..as not even he brotherhood of the Radiance is aware of that (only the immortals know). i would need a lot of adventures to only discover this spread over decades, and meanwhile the degradation continues.

Not even Glantrians (a few exceptions do apply) did not knew there was hidden something underneath Glantri...they did however knew there was a great source of magic available within the city. The few adventurers from WotI would know, but probably would either remain baffled and silent (they met a god of the gods after all and several immortals) or most mortals would not believe them (by immortal influence or just mortal stupidity).

Dragons and Beholders; hmm.. beholders are too choatic to make a concentrated attack on glantri city...they have absolutely no knowledge of the radiance, and the few which know are treated as outcasts. even if they know their number is too loow, their behavior mostly too solitary to even make a dent in the system. and the few hives/cities have their own problems of sustainability already.

dragons on the otherhand have a large social system, and are intelligent enough to make such discissions (eapecially against glantri as they have Dragomancy; magic feeding fromDragon souls--a great offense many dragons would desire to wipe away); yet even here the sphere of darkness from ToD would eventually stop their attacks..you can't attack something which can't be reached.

I totally agree however, Glantri can't escape its destruction; especially as it weakens/and thus destroys itself. And as soon as the secret is out (and the sooner or later this will happen (especially since there is no controlling Rad/Ettienne around for decades--meanwhile glantri will have changed .one way or another. And the world? they will focus on means of battling the day of dread effects, and especially when they learn of magic unaffected (floating isles of Ar, Serrainne, and later other sources) exsisting...this would eventually return the world to magic as it was BEFORE the FSS Beagle crashed on Mystara. More on this soon.
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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by pauldupuis » Fri Sep 21, 2018 12:58 pm

I have to disagree that a lot of nations will gang up to destroy Glantri. I think politically, just as many nations are likely to want a day without Magic to remain in place. A day with no magic reduced the massive power of high level mages. The remnants of Alphatia, Irendi wizards, Glantri, the Heldenic Freeholds, and more who have massive military advantages due to magic are lessened and nations like Darokin, Enthnegar and more will seek to keep that reduction in power in place. Even in Thyatis, the power of mages on Sclaras is curtailed, reducing risk that one of them decides to usurp the throne. The relative numbers of nations both for and against doing something may keep wide spread war from breaking out. Any conflict is more likely of a "Cold war: spy vs spy, adventures vs adventures variety. At least, that is where we would have headed had then been a Joshua's 2.
The intent was that this was a seed for high level adventurers to be the ones to unstabalize or stabilize the world, rather than result in a new world war.

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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by Robin » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:09 pm

Great Paul..
So that were some of the futuristic hints in Joshuan's Almanac were leading too....Great.
a sort of chaotic balance would thus be created.
and the decline of the radiance as in Gaz 3 would be eventually the end.
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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by Sturm » Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:34 pm

Thanks Paul, always nice to read about the behind the scenes intentions of designers.
I would be inclined to stabilize the situation somehow as if the Nucles continues to draw either Energy or Entropy bad things will happen and a reaction from interest parties may be more likely.
Yet even a stabilized Nucleus creating Energy Immortals would create imbalance in the Spheres so I'm not sure how the situation could reach a non-cataclysmic end :)

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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by Hugin » Fri Sep 21, 2018 2:37 pm

Really appreciate those thoughts, Paul. That sounds far more interesting than simply another world war. I think that the threat of war would be more useful in a campaign than an actual all-out war; at least in my opinion.

Thanks for sharing!

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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by BotWizo » Wed Sep 26, 2018 3:16 pm

Thanks Paul,

I wasn't thinking of nations in my comment. I was thinking more along the lines of those affected by the day, if you are a magical race or magic-user you eventually are going to want to stop the day. Whether or not they can stop it is another matter, it won't stop them from coming and investigating. Therefore, more and more entities whether they be organizations, nations, or individuals that want to halt the day will accrue in glantri and try and find the source and destroy it. Then Glantri becomes a very hostile place and probably no longer functions as a city. who would live in an area where magical races keep sending teams of adventurers or larger more determined forces in to solve an issue, and as time goes on those races will worry less about collateral damage to the local population due to the issues they face for their continued existence.

Think of a man made disaster in the real world, if the local and national organizations could not handle an event that would effect the globe, other nations step up and help or take charge. Chernobyl, Fukishima. You also have instances where maybe a nation can see something to gain or exert by becoming involved. Iraq.

You really can't get cloak and dagger when the day of dread is very direct and abrupt, that segment of the global population is going to mobilize and try and solve the issue for their own survival and the central point is discernable and reachable.
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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by Sturm » Mon Oct 01, 2018 12:04 pm

Yes I agree with BotWizo on this. Cloak and dagger could be for a while, but eventually dragons and such beings will arrive in full forces, stands to reason. That's why I cannot a see a way in which Glantri city is not doomed. Even should Rad return and personally protect it, that would just piss other Immortals and prompt them to direct intervention.

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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by MPA » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:36 am

n/t
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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by Sturm » Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:46 am

Definitely a return of Etienne would enrage Alphatians and a return of Rad would enrage Ixion. The only possible way the story could end peacefully is if Rad cooperates with Ixion to stop the Day of Dread and Glantri does the same with magical beings such as dragons and other powerful nations. In any other scenario, I think Glantri, or at least the city, will be invaded..

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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by RobJN » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:39 pm

Groom a few wizards to 36th level, teach them the Transcend Life Force spell, make sure they fail, Radiance replenished, problem solved :)
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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by Hugin » Tue Oct 02, 2018 2:55 pm

Sturm wrote:
Tue Oct 02, 2018 9:46 am
Definitely a return of Etienne would enrage Alphatians and a return of Rad would enrage Ixion. The only possible way the story could end peacefully is if Rad cooperates with Ixion to stop the Day of Dread and Glantri does the same with magical beings such as dragons and other powerful nations. In any other scenario, I think Glantri, or at least the city, will be invaded..
This made me think a bit. I think it would be interesting to have external forces begin to incite various, opposing, internal factions within Glantri in an attempt to create a civil war. Magic-users vs non-users; nobility vs commoners; "Rad"-icals vs traditionalists; Alphatian sympathizers vs patriotic Principality-ists.

Lots of potential for internal "wars". :evil:

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Re: Day of Dread around Mystara

Post by Sturm » Tue Oct 02, 2018 3:20 pm

it always was on the brink on civil war anyway :)
Rad indeed could sacrifice a couple of wizards :)
Smiling but both could be interesting adventures!

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