Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

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Robin
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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Robin » Fri Nov 23, 2018 4:35 pm

Sturm wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:56 pm
Those PCs are indeed good choices, probably more could be raided from modules set in Karameikos. I thought about Lathan too.
I will look into the Minrothad GAZ and X6, thanks.
For goods, I will consult the Darokin and Minrothad Gazs.
The good thing is most needed statistics are already created, and assuming they ended the adventure, they would know the region well
Other local characters could be the other PC's from Lathan's Gold , as these are also clearly originating from Karameikos, some old B adventures might have additional options, I would however refrain from using the ones in the AD&D2 sources on Karameikos, as these are somehow unbalanced or overpowered.
I used the X6 tables often,...and made adjusted and expansion of these...forgot where I stored these...I'll release them here when recovered.

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Sturm » Mon Nov 26, 2018 11:46 am

I'd like to have X9 pregens as natives of Slagovitch, as there are not much other characters in the region, so they could be useful as people encountered by the Pioneer, which will join the expedition lately as local guide.
Slagovitch is in fact the most likely first destination of the Pioneer.
Lathan however should absolutely be present, and I will soon look into other pregens once I have time..

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by agathokles » Tue Nov 27, 2018 9:40 pm

Sturm wrote:
Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:56 pm
Those PCs are indeed good choices, probably more could be raided from modules set in Karameikos. I thought about Lathan too.
I will look into the Minrothad GAZ and X6, thanks.
For goods, I will consult the Darokin and Minrothad Gazs.
The pre-gens from X6 are relatively well done (better than those from, say, X3), although they come from the Shady Dragon Inn, according to a note in the module. Most of them have a Norse undertone (names such as Hrotgar the Sly, Harold Forkbeard, or Magnus the Mage). The Elf PC is oddly named "Idris Darkelf", which is per se suggestive, but not particularly Karameikan.

The pre-gens from X9 don't look much better -- the priest and wizard have "talking names" (as Robin noticed, Aber Kadra is obviously a pun on Abracadabra, and I'll add that Kantik is likely a pun on "cantique" or "cantico", i.e. a lithurgic hymn), while the Elf and Dwarf have Norse names. Khan Harlan might be even Ethengaran if "Khan" is a title rather than a first name, and the thief's name is likely another pun (Luki for Lucky?).

Lathan's gold has the titular character, who is indeed an excellent choice. The other PCs are also good choices, IMO, although none of them is named, AFAIR.

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Robin » Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:10 pm

I updated the Lathan's Gold PC's (in their statistics and equipment) to reflect that (or similar) adventure(s) and the Great war. and gave them a wee bit more historic personality and Karameikan foundation. Let it be useful to thee ;)

Elrem Nessumsar Of the Everast Clan
Chubby blond bearded, braided hair &beard out of practicallity)DW6 to now DW10, Male
ST13 due training, IN16, WI10, DX11, CO16, CH7 ALNG
9HDHP63(incl +2/HD bonus)
Equipment; Dwarven Plate +2, Dwarven Shield +2, War Hammer+1, scroll of Communication to the Dwarven Court(mostly responded by the leading general
Languages; Thyatian (common), Dwarf(neutral), Medusa, Mermen, Gnomish, Goblinoid, Kobold
Skills; Know Terrain, Outdoorsman, Non-Human Cultures (Thanegioth), extra skill slots; +1(base=4)+2 (Intelligence)+2 (Level5&9)=+5
he's certainly an unusual dwarf. As such, his original mission might have been due to his unreliable character (for a dwarf). Indeed it's said he would be disgraced if he didn't come back in 35 days (unusual, and might be due to the fact that he wasn't trusted to return).The Great War and the temporary going underground of the Dwarves radically altered the Quest of Elrem. During the retreat of the dwarves from surface politics, Elrem is likely stranded in Specularum with little or no communication with Rockhome. He is likely working on his own at this point, rather than being an envoy of Rockhome.With the return of the Dwarves from below and a new King, he was given a second chance, and a scoll of communication to deliver information directly. The search for new Dwarven locations to settle is now lower on the Agenda, and the gaining of Knowledge (political, but also foes & friends)for the new King Everast XV takes precedence. You have made friends in karameikos. You have made a profit out of the wealth on the Isle of Dread, and have a smithy in Mirros with a profit of 150gp/month

Brother Octave (Octavius Herialdus of the Church of Karameikos--especially dedicated to Korotiku the Trickster) Brown hair, White cut beard, Male
C9 ST10, IN16, WI14(due magic and age), DX 10, CO11, CH13
HD9, Hp42, AL LG Hide in shadows ability due Immortal
Equipment Elven Mythril Chain (50% weight) +1, Gnome Shield (+2 due size), Mace of Obhnok (effects unknown retrieved from Lathan's gold adventure finds)
Spells; 3, 3, 3, 2
Languages; Thyatian (common), Traladaran (lawful), Bromdinag(Cloud Giant), Merrow(mermen)
Skills; Boating, Survival (Ocean), Religion (Sea of Dread region). extra skill slots; +1(base=4)+2 (Intelligence)+2 (Level5&9)=+5
Returned after locating a spider temple in the Sea of Dread, you returned. Your knowledge was enough for the Church of Karameikos to absorb your diminishing order when returned.(see http://www.pandius.com/cokara2.html) Your skills and knowledge were welcomed in Mirros by Patriach Oliver Jovett, You have an earning of 100gp/month out of the temple, but are fee lodging and basic food/clothing free.

Kuat the Dragonhearted (Kuat Affame of an Tanagoro Island Tribe in Sea of Dread)Dark Skinned male
F11,
ST16, IN13, WI10, DX10, CO13 (due a few years of training)CH10. ALNG
Languages; Thyatian (Common)Tanagoro(Neutral), Pearl Islander. Ierendi
Skills; Non-Human Cultures (Sea of Dreadincluding; Kna, Kopru, Sea Giant, Merrow(Mermen),?), Survival (Ocean), Boating. Cultural extra skill;Swimming . extra skill slots; +1(base=4)+1 (Intelligence)+2 ( Level5&9)=+4
Weapon Mastery Expert Sword Due above mentioned training, adventure and war background
HD9, hp 68(incl+1/HD bonus)
Traldar Plate mail+1, Merrow Shell shield+3, Nsword +2 (grant water breathing once a day to wearer)
Discovered the Aquapopulus War remains and returned with a large war bounty. Opened a shop in shells, pearls and other sea-jewelry and tools in Mirros with a profit of 125gp/month. Your resentment against the merrow grew due your discovery of the battlesite.

Suparjo (Suparjo Minithia of Machetos, Teacher in Sea monsters in the Karameikan School of Magecraft of Krakatos)
M8 ST9, IN18, WI12, CO 9, DX 11, CH11 AL CN, redhaired (long)female. HD8, 24hp
Languages; Thyatian (common), Skotharian(Neutral), Medusa, Pearl Islander, Traladaran
Skills; Non-Human Cultures (Malpheggi; including Harpies &Giants=Bromdinag(cloud giant) &Bratak(Hill Giant)), Navigation, Nature Lore. extra skill slots; +1(base=4)+3 (Intelligence)+1 (level5)=+5
Robes of Flying, Dagger+1, Dagger +3, Wizard staff (11 charges left-Detect Magic, or detect Disease or Detect Curse once a day no charge, made from Hydra bone), Hydra Cap(AC+3 to called shots to the head--reactions to Dragons/Hydra -1--) The teaching in Krakatos earns you a hefty 4000GP, yet your research devours 90% of this. hence you also have a small market stand once a week in Krakatos and once a week in Mirros selling dragon/hydra bones, scales, blood, etc to help ends meet.
This and the strange languages he speaks and the fact he was searching for a hydra could indicate he is from Skothar and maybe studied in Alphatia or Thyatis. She was a female from Yasuko tribal lands, bought as a slave by a Thyatian wizard, freed by him and now heir of his wealth and researches.

Krag Skraddle Son of Merry
T9/ Minrothad Merchant 3, 9HD, 33 hp ALCG
ST9, IN14, WI11, DX14(due training and magic), CO10, CH9, Male http://www.pandius.com/3strflwr.html
Languages; Thyatian (common), Minrothaddan (Chaotic), Medusa (rarely used so declining in understanding and speaking), Thieves Cantina (recently acquired and still learning)
Skills; Boating, Helmsman/Captain, Ship Building.. extra skill slots; +1(base=4)+1 (Intelligence)+2 ( Level5&9)=+4
Leatherarmor of blinking(3x day), Sword+2 of Detect Evil, and any nonmagical common weapon
Arrived from Minrothad in search of the treasures of dead pirates, Krag, who has a talking parrot named Paco, has become a sort of provider of everything on the island, through carefully cultivated relations with everyone, particularly Medusas. He also proposes treasure hunts on this and other islands. Your treasure finds have brought you enough money to release you from poverty (as being a street orphan), current resident of the town of Hideout in Pirate's Rock; you now own a small shop in 2nd hand weapons, thus far the Thievesguild accepted you not being aligned with them, as you saved some important figures from the Iron Ring, yet you know you have to be careful not stepping on their toes...especially the iron Ring, but also the Thieves guild.You have a monthly earning of 75GP
Last edited by Robin on Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:29 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Sturm » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:17 am

Very interesting, I'd would add them to crew. I will look also into the X6 and X9 PCs despite what Agathokles rightfully noticed :)
As I am reviewing Karameikos adventures for my article in incoming Threshold #22, I will soon have more info on Karameikos adventurers..

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by agathokles » Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:41 pm

Robin wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:10 pm
I updated the Lathan's Gold PC's (in their statistics and equipment) to reflect that (or similar) adventure(s) and the Great war. and gave them a wee bit more historic personality and Karameikan foundation. Let it be useful to thee ;)
Ah, I did not remember correctly! All PCs in Lathan's Gold even have a short description.

Rereading them, I think your expansions are quite good. Some comments follow.

Elrem this one is Merle Rasmussen spelled backwards :roll: . Anyway, during the retreat of the dwarves from surface politics, Elrem is likely stranded in Specularum with little or no communication with Rockhome. He is likely working on his own at this point, rather than being an envoy of Rockhome. BTW, I support the idea that Elrem is a male: while -em is not one of the name endings provided in the gazetteer, there are no female endings in -m, while there is one such male ending (-um). On the other hand, he's certainly an unusual dwarf, since in XSOLO he is Neutral. As such, his original mission might have been due to his unreliable character (for a dwarf). Indeed it's said he would be disgraced if he didn't come back in 35 days (unusual, and might be due to the fact that he wasn't trusted to return).

Octave: this one is tricky. I suspect he might be a member of the Church of Thyatis rather than the Church of Karameikos, since the latter is much more Lawful-oriented, and Korotiku was never a member of the Pantheon. Another odd point is that, as a follower of Korotiku, Octave should be Chaotic, but in XSOLO he is Lawful (he's the only Lawful PC, another odd choice). He may still be Karameikan -- there are almost certainly some followers of the Church of Thyatis, although that order would certainly be "diminishing" by 1000 AC.

Kuat: I'd make him a Pearl Islander rather than a Tanagoro from the southern Sea of Dread. In the latter case, both the war and him being based in Specularum would make little sense. As a Thyatian from the Pearl Islands, his presence in Karameikos is unusual but not entirely impossible.

Suparjo lacks languages; she speaks Giant, Medusa, and Harpy in XSOLO.

Krag lacks languages; she speaks the Medusa language in XSOLO. Note that Krag appears also in a Threshold article by Sturm, although he's male there.

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Sturm » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:34 pm

agathokles wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:41 pm
Suparjo lacks languages; she speaks Giant, Medusa, and Harpy in XSOLO.
Suparjo is an indonesian name (male, really). This and the strange languages he speaks and the fact he is searching for a hydra could indicate he is from Skothar and maybe studied in Alphatia or Thyatis. I think in the module all pregens are meant to be male because in the 80s TSR gave for granted most of the audience was male. But we could decide she was a female from Yasuko tribal lands, bought as a slave by a Thyatian wizard, freed by him and now heir of his wealth and researches.
Krag lacks languages; she speaks the Medusa language in XSOLO. Note that Krag appears also in a Threshold article by Sturm, although he's male there.
The name struck me as decisely Minrothaddan. He is clearly a classic pirate type in the module, parrot and all. I made him a resident of the town of Hideout in Pirate's Rock

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Robin » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:40 pm

agathokles wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:41 pm
Robin wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 11:10 pm
I updated the Lathan's Gold PC's (in their statistics and equipment) to reflect that (or similar) adventure(s) and the Great war. and gave them a wee bit more historic personality and Karameikan foundation. Let it be useful to thee ;)
Ah, I did not remember correctly! All PCs in Lathan's Gold even have a short description.

Rereading them, I think your expansions are quite good. Some comments follow.

Elrem this one is Merle Rasmussen spelled backwards :roll: . Anyway, during the retreat of the dwarves from surface politics, Elrem is likely stranded in Specularum with little or no communication with Rockhome. He is likely working on his own at this point, rather than being an envoy of Rockhome. BTW, I support the idea that Elrem is a male: while -em is not one of the name endings provided in the gazetteer, there are no female endings in -m, while there is one such male ending (-um). On the other hand, he's certainly an unusual dwarf, since in XSOLO he is Neutral. As such, his original mission might have been due to his unreliable character (for a dwarf). Indeed it's said he would be disgraced if he didn't come back in 35 days (unusual, and might be due to the fact that he wasn't trusted to return).
lol that's funny. I followed the same routine to determine his gender. The background you supply sounds very credible. I'll add it to the description.
agathokles wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:41 pm
Octave: this one is tricky. I suspect he might be a member of the Church of Thyatis rather than the Church of Karameikos, since the latter is much more Lawful-oriented, and Korotiku was never a member of the Pantheon. Another odd point is that, as a follower of Korotiku, Octave should be Chaotic, but in XSOLO he is Lawful (he's the only Lawful PC, another odd choice). He may still be Karameikan -- there are almost certainly some followers of the Church of Thyatis, although that order would certainly be "diminishing" by 1000 AC.
Tricky indeed. At first I saw this as not possible as the Spider immortals known are either chaotic or even evil. Studying the Churches of Karameikos I saw Korotiku mentioned, and deemed it best fitting to the declining order of Aranee. Both his alignment and his acquired knowledge in the Lathan's gold adventure I saw as reason for the Church of Karameikos to absorb this Cleric AND his order...to bring it more in line with a lawful tract instead chaotic..espcially as Korotiku was already part of the Church of Karameikos,....The origin of this church is Thyatian, so Your suggestion of the Cult being original Thyatian has its merit. I deemed this the best solution. One point of Notice; according the WotI list of Immortals Korotiku accepts all alignments not only Chaotic...so Lawful , though maybe rare, yet still possible
agathokles wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:41 pm
Kuat: I'd make him a Pearl Islander rather than a Tanagoro from the southern Sea of Dread. In the latter case, both the war and him being based in Specularum would make little sense. As a Thyatian from the Pearl Islands, his presence in Karameikos is unusual but not entirely impossible.
I choose Tanagoro more out of the racial (dark-skinned) human aspect due his name, which is a old RL easter island name...hence the reference. A Pearl Islander would be acceptable, yet were these island not more chinese/japanese in style/culture? or am I wrong? In my opinion this culture would be home to one(or more) of the small islands of the Sea of dread(similar to the dark-skinned inhabitants of the Isle of Dread), and for some (at least to me)unknown reason these came in real conflict with the merrow, many survivors fled while Kara-Kara took over their lands---maybe the war was even incited by the karakara covered in the fog of Kal-Maru.
agathokles wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:41 pm
Suparjo lacks languages; she speaks Giant, Medusa, and Harpy in XSOLO.
oops forgot these I add them in the altered form as I did above. To me remains however, why so many of this group speak languages so rare and obscure....Medusa? There must have a large group of Medusa active to enable this. Giant; first which species of Giant, secondly see Medusa. Harpies speak normally a corrupted simplified form of the local tongue, the real Harpy is a sound of screeching and sqeeling, unable to be pronounced by non-harpies....so I assume it is more an understanding of Harpy than speaking it (thus not needing a language slot)...as result of some explorations this character did in respect to Harpies. I would even add a Knowledge Skill of Harpies die this.
agathokles wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:41 pm
Krag lacks languages; she speaks the Medusa language in XSOLO. Note that Krag appears also in a Threshold article by Sturm, although he's male there.
I had no idea he was male...I chose female, just due the possibility of it, and the overall lack of female heroes in the PC/NPC canon descriptions. I change it. thanx for the extra information
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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Robin » Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:44 pm

Sturm wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 2:34 pm
agathokles wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 1:41 pm
Suparjo lacks languages; she speaks Giant, Medusa, and Harpy in XSOLO.
Suparjo is an indonesian name (male, really). This and the strange languages he speaks and the fact he is searching for a hydra could indicate he is from Skothar and maybe studied in Alphatia or Thyatis. I think in the module all pregens are meant to be male because in the 80s TSR gave for granted most of the audience was male. But we could decide she was a female from Yasuko tribal lands, bought as a slave by a Thyatian wizard, freed by him and now heir of his wealth and researches.
Krag lacks languages; she speaks the Medusa language in XSOLO. Note that Krag appears also in a Threshold article by Sturm, although he's male there.
The name struck me as decisely Minrothaddan. He is clearly a classic pirate type in the module, parrot and all. I made him a resident of the town of Hideout in Pirate's Rock
To suparjo...Indeed indonesian name...the background you give here seems perfectly fitting. yes TSR was male chauvenistic..sortoff.
I add your description to the PC
Minrothaddan seems allright to Krag
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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Robin » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:08 pm

adjusted all with the new additional information
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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by agathokles » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:22 pm

Regarding Kuat, Pearl Islanders are dark skinned (Tanagoro), with a Polynesian-like culture. That's why Pearl Islands would fit equally well. BTW, Kuat means "strong" in Indonesian (according to Google translate), so maybe Merle Rasmussen took inspiration from Indonesian (which apparently was quite popular with TSR).

Regarding the gender, it is evident only for Lathan (through the portrait, etc.) and Octave (since he's a "Brother"), since the text always uses the second person. It is quite likely indeed that they were intended to be all males (but leaving the option to turn them to female, as no gender is stated), although really there was no reason to do so, since most quests are very gender-neutral. It would have been trivial to provide alternate names, or simply make some of them female from the start.

Anyway, while Suparjo is indeed an Indonesian male name, it can also be a surname. Besides, Karameikan wizards are often known to take a single, mysterious-sounding name (Krollan, Teldon, Golthar, and Bargle all go by a single name that is not particularly Thyatian or Traladaran). I suspect some of these names might be simply made up by the mage for their sound, or they may be Alphatian words or names. I'd make Suparjo a similar case, making her a Karameikan wizard who simply chose an M-Indonesian (that would be most likely Skotharian Rakasta) name as her "stage name", perhaps after spending some time in the Gulf of Tangor area.
Alternately, it could be her surname.

Finally, another worthy addition to the crew could be Cee Salt, as navigator and cartographer. There should be a full writeup in the Specularum issue of Threshold.

GP

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by agathokles » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:40 pm

Regarding languages: I agree with Robin. It is an artifact of the early BECMI rules, which imposed a set of additional languages to be chosen instead of more general skills. I think Medusa, Merman, and Harpy were chosen to give these PCs specific advantage when dealing with creatures in the adventure, since, AFAIR, there are no goblin, orcs, and the other more typical choices in the module.
I therefore support modifying the skills from "language" to something else. There is a skill in the Northern Reaches gazetteer which deals with (knowledge of the local) "Non-human cultures", including minimal communication capabilities, which can be used, if adapted to the Thanegioth Archipelago, Sea of Dread, or Undersea.
Furthermore, these characters would likely speak at least two human languages (e.g., Thyatian and Pearl Islander or Traladaran or Ierendi, etc), so it would be a good idea to remove some of the more far-fetched languages.
Appropriate general skills would include Boating, Helmsman/Captain, Know Terrain, Navigation, Ship Building, Outdoorsman or Survival (Ocean). Given their expertise and travels in the Sea of Dread, I think all of the characters would have at least one such skill.

Here's a proposal, leaving at least one open skill each:
Lathan: Boating, Know Terrain, Outdoorsman.
Elrem: Know Terrain, Outdoorsman, Non-Human Cultures (Thanegioth).
Octave: Boating, Survival (Ocean), Religion (Sea of Dread region).
Kuat: Non-Human Cultures (Sea of Dread?), Survival (Ocean), Boating.
Suparjo: Non-Human Cultures (Malpheggi), Navigation, Nature Lore.
Krag: Boating, Helmsman/Captain, Ship Building.

GP

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Robin » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:04 pm

I did not knew/remember the Pearl Islanders were thus, in that case Your idea seems fitting , except that the Pearl Islands are much further east....And the description in the PC information seemed to guide the culture to have been existing on an island in war with the mermen(merrow)...This was the first reason I took Tanagoro

Indeed the common and alignment languges of the early BECMi soon proofed to be ridiculous...
Yet even if these languages are chosen, there must have been a reason of significance to learn them,
That skill knowledge of the local "Non-human cultures" perfectly fits the bill

Ohw nice choices of skills
I'll enter them...and add the number of extra skillslots they have depending on intelligence and level

I should add an updated Lathan to the list (doing this later)
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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by agathokles » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:24 pm

Here's a possible list of personnel on the Pioneer:
  • Captain: Lathan Spearhand
  • Lieutenants:
    • First Lieutenant: Kuat the Dragonhearted
    • Second Lieutenant
    • Navigating Lieutenant: Krag Skraddle
    • Marines Lieutenant: Elrem Nessumsar
  • Administrative Lieutenant:
    • Purser
    • Chaplain: Brother Octave
    • Clerk
    • Ship Mage: Suparjo
  • Senior Sergeants
    • Boatswain
    • Artillerist
    • Quartermaster
    • Assistant Chaplain
  • Sergeants
    • Mate (2)
    • Midshipman (2)
    • Ropemaker
    • Carpenter
    • Caulker
    • Master-at-arms
    • Boatswain's Mate
  • Supernumeraries (passengers): Cee Salt
Obviously a survey ship going on such a dangerous journey would have more expert characters taking the roles of lieutenants, etc. then is typical of Karameikan ships.

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Robin » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:26 pm

The crew grows together.
;P

Btw I think Krag with his selling and other background would also serve well as quartermaster (i belive to remember that is the person responsible for the storage food/items. hence i made him also a merchant (minrothad)
Cee Salt, as navigator and cartographer
I don't know this individual..which Threshold? the name gives a good feel indeed
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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by agathokles » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:32 pm

Robin wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:04 pm
I did not knew/remember the Pearl Islanders were thus, in that case Your idea seems fitting , except that the Pearl Islands are much further east....And the description in the PC information seemed to guide the culture to have been existing on an island in war with the mermen(merrow)...This was the first reason I took Tanagoro
Yes, but given that the Merrow are an extensive culture, and the war is named "Aquapopulus" (which shows a clear Latin derivation), I always took it to mean that the war happened between Thyatis and the Twaelar Merrow.

Also, at the time of Lathan's Gold, Thanegioth is essentially unexplored -- so how would a Tanagoro from Thanegioth happen to live in Specularum? On the other hand, the Pearl Islands are known and have dealings with the mainland since a millennium at least. One of Kuat's ancestors may have even been a sailor or legionnaire involved in the battle of Aquapopulus, even if it happened at a significant distance from the Pearl Islands.

GP

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Robin » Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:38 pm

agathokles wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:32 pm
Robin wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:04 pm
I did not knew/remember the Pearl Islanders were thus, in that case Your idea seems fitting , except that the Pearl Islands are much further east....And the description in the PC information seemed to guide the culture to have been existing on an island in war with the mermen(merrow)...This was the first reason I took Tanagoro
Yes, but given that the Merrow are an extensive culture, and the war is named "Aquapopulus" (which shows a clear Latin derivation), I always took it to mean that the war happened between Thyatis and the Twaelar Merrow.

Also, at the time of Lathan's Gold, Thanegioth is essentially unexplored -- so how would a Tanagoro from Thanegioth happen to live in Specularum? On the other hand, the Pearl Islands are known and have dealings with the mainland since a millennium at least. One of Kuat's ancestors may have even been a sailor or legionnaire involved in the battle of Aquapopulus, even if it happened at a significant distance from the Pearl Islands.

GP
The Lathan's gold adventure locates this Aquapopulus war in the Sea of Dread, Hence I assume it would also designate the location. I have to check this in detail to know for sure. The Twaelar/Thyatis connection would seem right though, especially in regard to War Rafts of Kron happening in the same general area and time.

He could have been lost on sea in a war or fish canoe, being one of the few survivors, found by merchants, sold as servant or slace, and being one of the few to be able to buy his freedom, finding in his absense the Aquapopulus war had taken place between his people and the merrow, with devastating results...just an idea...but one spurring a great resentment towards merrow and the Twaelar, and thus giving a viable living character background
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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by agathokles » Wed Nov 28, 2018 5:27 pm

Robin wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:38 pm
The Lathan's gold adventure locates this Aquapopulus war in the Sea of Dread, Hence I assume it would also designate the location. I have to check this in detail to know for sure. The Twaelar/Thyatis connection would seem right though, especially in regard to War Rafts of Kron happening in the same general area and time.
He could have been lost on sea in a war or fish canoe, being one of the few survivors, found by merchants, sold as servant or slace, and being one of the few to be able to buy his freedom, finding in his absense the Aquapopulus war had taken place between his people and the merrow, with devastating results...just an idea...but one spurring a great resentment towards merrow and the Twaelar, and thus giving a viable living character background
The War Rafts of Kron happens in the same general area, but the battle of Aquapopulus took place a long time ago. Indeed Kuat heard stories about this war when he was a child, and it's widely considered a legend. So, it can't have happened in recent times. By the same token, Kuat cannot be a survivor of that war.

The battle itself is part of a larger struggle, which is briefly mentioned in Kuat's background. Thus, it cannot involve just the local population of Skeleton Key (the site of the Battle of Aquapopulus). However, the Skeleton Key itself is distant from all other human lands (it's north-west of the Isle of Dread), so it appears to me that the larger struggle must have been fought by the Twaelar Empire (the Merrow of the Sunlit Sea are too distant and not aggressive enough) and a more distant human power from the mainland.

GP

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by agathokles » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:05 pm

Robin wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:26 pm
The crew grows together.
;P

Btw I think Krag with his selling and other background would also serve well as quartermaster (i belive to remember that is the person responsible for the storage food/items. hence i made him also a merchant (minrothad)
Cee Salt, as navigator and cartographer
I don't know this individual..which Threshold? the name gives a good feel indeed
It depends whether the quartermaster is the helmsman or is the officer in charge of the provisions (this changes depending on the different navies, unfortunately) -- in my listing it should be the helmsman. Of course Krag could be the Purser rather than the navigating lieutenant, but she/he is quite high level for such a role.

As to Cee Salt, he's an NPC from XSOLO Lathan's Gold. The PC(s) can get information from him at a cost on how to reach their destination.

GP

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Sturm » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:07 am

I think we should also find a Torenescu scion for the expedition, and maybe also a Vorloi as I find it likely they could be the financiers of the expedition.
Suparjo could also have entered the School of Magecraft in some position, making her also a representative of the School.
Maybe a brother or niece of Halia Vorloi Antonic would be appropriate. A brother could be around 45 in 1013 AC, while a nephew/niece could be 20-25 years old.
Stephanos Torenescu could be appropriate too, as I used him as an adventurous type, and he should be about 38 years old in 1013 AC.
Generally it is more likely for young and not married men or women to face a voyage which could last years, in the case of nobles maybe not of the main line as it would be too dangerous for the heir of a major House. If Stephanos had a child, he or she could be present instead of him or with him.
Nichola Torenescu and Zogrev Yarol could also have a 30+ years old child by now. He/She could be acceptable both as representative of the government and the Torenescu.
It is also not impossible one would travel with his/her whole immediate family in such a long voyage. It is potentially dangerous, but magic still gives you much better chances than in the real world and we could assume there is no superstition about women on board in Mystara (and even in the RW, that was very relative).

Beside that, there are a lot of pre-gens in Karameikos modules which could be used too.

If you do not have other suggestions or info, I think I will determine all the above randomly.

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by agathokles » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:52 pm

I agree there is likely no superstition about women on board, at least in Karameikos and Thyatis. Other nations may have different customs. The presence of a Torenescu or Vorloi indeed depends mainly on who is funding the expedition. If it is the Vorloi, then probably a senior member of the family could be present, while the Torenescu may have a friendly. Someone cultivated by Yarol, most likely, although not necessarily a son -- especially if it is the only one, no one who risk his sole heir on a dangerous expedition.

Indeed some other pre-gens could be used. However, most of them do not have names -- B11, B12, and B6 don't have named pre-gens, and are the most Karameikos-related ones. I don't think B10 has named pregens at all -- unless you want to use Stefan or one of the younger people from Sukyskin.

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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Robin » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:50 pm

I first thought TSR 2509 MYS2 Night of the Vampire would have interesting pregens, but it had none. Their would be a interesting background story generated if a Vandevicsny member (alive , nosferatu -able to be active day, or vampire-active only at night) would be present.
There are perfect, lower level Pregens in TSR 9271 - DDA3 - Eye of Traldar page 15, yet they are unnamed. They have a solid functional Karameikan background and would certainly fit the bill of lower ranking crew. they may have finished that adventure(and a 1 or 2 more) but as that adventure is based after 1010AC, they most probably will NOT have gained more than 1 level and a few minor magical items. They only need really fitting names.


In CD1-TSR2502-AD&D2-Mystara-Hail the Heroes-boxed set there are on page 8 to 11 very interesting NPC's who (in my opinion) would also have a chance to be fitting to the scene
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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Robin » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:53 pm

agathokles wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:05 pm
Robin wrote:
Wed Nov 28, 2018 4:26 pm
The crew grows together.
;P

Btw I think Krag with his selling and other background would also serve well as quartermaster (i belive to remember that is the person responsible for the storage food/items. hence i made him also a merchant (minrothad)
Cee Salt, as navigator and cartographer
I don't know this individual..which Threshold? the name gives a good feel indeed
It depends whether the quartermaster is the helmsman or is the officer in charge of the provisions (this changes depending on the different navies, unfortunately) -- in my listing it should be the helmsman. Of course Krag could be the Purser rather than the navigating lieutenant, but she/he is quite high level for such a role.

As to Cee Salt, he's an NPC from XSOLO Lathan's Gold. The PC(s) can get information from him at a cost on how to reach their destination.

GP
I was unnaware of this naval confusion; as far as I knew it was always the quartemaster respinsible for the provisions (i.e.; making quarter= in Dutch Kwartier make...is making a pause to eat, drink, pee, polish weapons, redone clothing, shave if needed, brush hair if needed, in general taking care of yourself and your equipment, etc
I found him...indeed he might be a good character onboard.
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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Robin » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:59 pm

Sturm wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:07 am
I think we should also find a Torenescu scion for the expedition, and maybe also a Vorloi as I find it likely they could be the financiers of the expedition.
I Agree in this
Sturm wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:07 am
Suparjo could also have entered the School of Magecraft in some position, making her also a representative of the School.
That was what I suggested in the character background. She is a teacher there due her experience in Hydra/dragons.
Sturm wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:07 am
Maybe a brother or niece of Halia Vorloi Antonic would be appropriate. A brother could be around 45 in 1013 AC, while a nephew/niece could be 20-25 years old.
Stephanos Torenescu could be appropriate too, as I used him as an adventurous type, and he should be about 38 years old in 1013 AC.
Generally it is more likely for young and not married men or women to face a voyage which could last years, in the case of nobles maybe not of the main line as it would be too dangerous for the heir of a major House. If Stephanos had a child, he or she could be present instead of him or with him.
Nichola Torenescu and Zogrev Yarol could also have a 30+ years old child by now. He/She could be acceptable both as representative of the government and the Torenescu.
It is also not impossible one would travel with his/her whole immediate family in such a long voyage. It is potentially dangerous, but magic still gives you much better chances than in the real world and we could assume there is no superstition about women on board in Mystara (and even in the RW, that was very relative).
All could be interesting...I would not use a direct family member, maybe more a side member, that still has to proof its value to the family...by going onboard...then he/she or even a couple would not be over 30 in age.
Sturm wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:07 am
Beside that, there are a lot of pre-gens in Karameikos modules which could be used too.

If you do not have other suggestions or info, I think I will determine all the above randomly.
See my suggestion in the post on the AD&D2 box sets above.
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Re: Ops everybody forgot about The Pioneer!

Post by Robin » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:02 pm

As to the Aquapopulus war...I could not find data placing this. Further Agathokles seems to be right on this point.
I would still have the character be originating from one of the islands in the Sea of Dread and not the further east Pearl Islands, although they are not outright wrong, the Sea of read Origin would fit better...in my opinion at least
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