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What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:42 pm
by Havard
What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign?

-Havard

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 5:46 pm
by Sturm
Anything :-) I could ask for more justifications only for later editions races..

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:18 pm
by agathokles
Basically anything except for later edition stuff -- since I rarely play any D&D later than 2e and don't feel the need to have those races in Mystara (there are already dozens of races).

Obviously, certain races may be not allowed in specific campaign regions -- e.g., Tortles in Norwold or Kna in a Great Waste campaign.
In general, the underwater races are better used in Undersea campaigns, or at least campaigns centered around the Sea of Dread. Rakasta and Lupins, while nominally Savage Coast-specific, are much more widespread than Tortles or Wallara, so I usually allow them in most regions (Karameikos is a bit of an exception, since neither Lupins nor Rakasta are found there).

Another reason for disallowing some races is the campaign level -- for example, Sea Giants are really out of place in a Basic-level campaign. A rather young one could fit in a low- to mid-Expert level campaign, though (I had one as a friendly NPC when the party split in the Sea of Dread campaign, joining the group that went to Undersea and played by one of the players whose character had remained in Ierendi).

I'd also allow basically any sentient being native to the campaign region -- creating custom racial classes with the Gaz10/PC rules is quite easy, as demonstrated by the many races we have created for Threshold Magazine.

In practice, however, I've seen that few player take these classes. Overall, I've had a Rakasta Druidic Initiate, a Gnome Wicca, the abovementioned semi-NPC Sea Giant sprat, and a Cleric / Wererat, though the latter was accidentally created out of a standard human cleric of Halav (the character later switched allegiance to Mrikitat).

GP

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 9:24 pm
by RobJN
My allowances would vary by the nature and location of the campaign. I'm not terribly fond of the later-edition races, since they aren't "native" to the setting. (Okay, I'd allow gnomes...)

If the player wants to put in the extra work required of a lycanthrope PC, that's fine, but they would also have to understand that the DM would take full advantage of the disadvantages of the race as the campaign arc/storyline progresses.

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 12:14 am
by pauldupuis
We've used PC (or detailed NPC) races of Rakasta, Gnomes, Lycanthropes, a variety of Humanoids (Orcs, Goblins, Gnolls, Hobgoblins). We've also had PC/fully developed NPC (i.e character levels, skills, etc.) for Dragons, Giants, and Griffons and a couple "special" (unique) creatures that were PCs.

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 8:01 pm
by Mike
Rakasta or Tortles. IMC gnomes and dwarves are essentially the same race so if a dwarf PC wants to call himself a gnome that's cool.

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 9:07 pm
by shesheyan
None I don't plan to make a Mystara campaign ! :x :lol: :lol: :lol:

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:34 pm
by Tim Baker
I know older editions of D&D weren't as focused on PC balance, so would there be any issues with any of these races being dramatically over/under-powered compared to "standard" races?

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:49 am
by RobJN
Tim Baker wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:34 pm
I know older editions of D&D weren't as focused on PC balance, so would there be any issues with any of these races being dramatically over/under-powered compared to "standard" races?
Have you seen the Basic D&D Elf experience table? ;) Just do the same for any "unbalanced" new race

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:37 am
by Helm
Maybe shadowelves and gnomes.

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 2:15 pm
by mah9
For a general Known World campaign:
Gnomes, yes.
Shadow Elves (if a good justification)
Lycanthrope (if a PC succumbs to Lycanthropy)

Most others I would allow in a campaign specific to a region or quest.
Later edition races - No.

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 5:35 pm
by agathokles
Tim Baker wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 11:34 pm
I know older editions of D&D weren't as focused on PC balance, so would there be any issues with any of these races being dramatically over/under-powered compared to "standard" races?
Balance can be rather different. However, take into account that powerful races require lots of XP to level up, which is why some monster PC races are unsuitable for low-level play (even a giant child would be more powerful than a first level fighter).

GP

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:20 pm
by Kilr Kowalski
5e.

I would allow any PC race in red steel, although aranea would be tricky,
all of the orcs of thar races except ogre or troll, ormaybe repurpose goliath as ogres
shadowelves - mostly as reskinned drow,
gnomes, incl sky gnomes, where I would allow the players to substitute a skill for expertise in tinkers tools.
Duergar could be moodriswerg
Lizard man-I would consider making subraces with the base race being the ator

From the 5e core races:
Dragonborn would be difficult but could come from glantri or wyrmskull
Tieflings could work as diaboli
Half orcs - no problem
Half elves - happy to retcon in.

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:35 pm
by BotWizo
I am running Mystara in 5e so I will allow all races from anywhere if we have the 5e setup for it.

my original Mystara BECMI campaign allowed everything, so I am still going with that, I think you can justify any race somewhere in mystara.

I would possibly reskin some 5e races if I needed to, but so far we haven't had to do that.
The campaign started with an all human party so I haven't had to worry about it.
We do have an elf and a dwarf now, but again, those are already part of the core mystara for lack of a better term

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:42 pm
by DirtSkull
I'm picky, just the Shadowelf

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:08 pm
by Cerulean
In my Mystara campaigns, I allow all of them. I think the huge variety of races in Mystara is a strength of the setting, one to be embraced, not something from which a DM should shy away. Even the newer (4e & 5e) races work because, in practical terms, I (as the DM) do not have to suddenly over-populate the entire setting with tieflings, revenants, et.al. just because I give my players the choice to play those races. I simply fit the new races in where and how I see fit then integrate them into the story I and my players are creating together.

—Shawn

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:59 pm
by Tim Baker
Cerulean wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 7:08 pm
In my Mystara campaigns, I allow all of them. I think the huge variety of races in Mystara is a strength of the setting, one to be embraced, not something from which a DM should shy away. Even the newer (4e & 5e) races work because, in practical terms, I (as the DM) do not have to suddenly over-populate the entire setting with tieflings, revenants, et.al. just because I give my players the choice to play those races. I simply fit the new races in where and how I see fit then integrate them into the story I and my players are creating together.
I've always liked that approach.

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:19 pm
by Robin
hmm
Initially I would allow all PC/Gaz/RC creatures...expanded with the GazF races.
However, The Giants, Sphinx, Nagpa, Treant, Lycanthropes, etc I feel are too difficult to be played correctly.
Not only is the Xp table for these races more age bound instead experience (as it clearly harbours child and elde stages) these creatures are also somewhat off the chart of easy playble races...in the sense they are literally overpowered and hence easily game disuptive if not played and steared by experienced players/DM.
I Do use them as NPC's though, where the increased levels give awe to these creatures
The rare times I allowed these as PC's it was even in the hands of experienced players always tricky to keep gamebalance...yet hey..even a Fly. Raise Dead or Teleport spell used abundantly can be disruptive.

In overall I accept ALL humanoids, Demihumans, and Human races as presented, thus limit Giants, Sphinx, Nagpa etc to NPC status...Currently one of my players has a werefox thief, which is playable, yet its immunities make it hard to have any opponent be less than a nuisance unless it is aware of the lycanthrope status and uses magic/silver...yet random encounters become less fun to play this way.

On the otherhand; the adventure Revenge of the Little Ones I wrote for the Eurogencon 1995 is full of new PC races; Sky Gnome, Tabi, Hin Master, Hin Sheriff, Sprite, Kobold Shaman

As to the newer edition races;
Tiefling, = in my opinion just another representation of diaboli---like colored human variaties exist, these have also varieties, yet more corporeal(and cultural) yet still are in essence normal Diaboli
Dragonborn, = NO NO NO no no no no...a dragon is mighty enough to be interesting in its original form. the figures of these are maybe interesting, but in my opinion a dragon must be a dragon and nothing more (even though it could alter itself to appear human(oid). creating a humanoid races as dragonborne disrupte the plausibility of Dragons totally, and hence also the dragonborne
Goliath, = a giant species or stalwart nothing more...the figures i use to represent Stone giants
Drow, = a corrupted shadow elf (as i suggested in the future of Mystara http://www.pandius.com/risefall.html in [ur=http://www.pandius.com/Threshold_10.pdfl]threshold 10[/url]
Half-dragon, = also no no...even a shapechanged creature will appear as being another race, it is still genetically incompatible with these races. The AD&D2 suggestion from GKoM is thus nonsense....however...i do accept the individual cases in these characters as presented in GKoM yet remove/alter the origin.....in my opinion it is best to assume these individuals were subjected to a planned, unplanned, or accidental permanent alteration of their body, and as such are still genetically the normal race they belong too.
Eladrin= another name for high elves, and these live in Norwold as far as I know
Half Elves were mentioned in Gaz Alfheim, and on the savage coast this was more explained as being an immortal influence...as such I keep these limited, and in essence a threatened demihuman race.
Half-orc mentioned in several canon sources....as being originally beastmen, a chaotic race with unstable genes, canonnically created by the Immortal Hell from reincarnated spirits (human, demi human, and other) and dead humans...the human component is thus strong that I accept the chance though small) for an orc, ogre, hobgoblin to create combined offspring (the other races are either too small, or to diverse to have a human strain capable of allowing this). most of these will be victims of humanoid brutality and could be raised on eitherside yet never will truly fit in...as such I accept not only half-orc, but also half-ogre, half hobgoblin from humans. and ofcourse the mixture of humanoid races as suggested in gaz 10, limiting them to goblinoids(Goblin, Bugbear, Hobgoblin), humanoids(Orc, Orgre, Kobold), and trolloids(Gnoll, Troll)

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:32 pm
by Tim Baker
Robin wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:19 pm
Dragonborn, = NO NO NO no no no no...a dragon is mighty enough to be interesting in its original form. the figures of these are maybe interesting, but in my opinion a dragon must be a dragon and nothing more (even though it could alter itself to appear human(oid). creating a humanoid races as dragonborne disrupte the plausibility of Dragons totally, and hence also the dragonborne
It's completely valid not to allow dragonborn in your Mystara campaign, of course. I thought I'd mention that in 4th Edition and 5th Edition, dargonborn are a unique race. They aren't half-dragons and aren't born from dragon eggs (as with Dragonlance's draconians). They're a race that was created by the dragon deity; they have some features similar to dragons, but aren't related.

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:47 am
by agathokles
Tim Baker wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:32 pm
It's completely valid not to allow dragonborn in your Mystara campaign, of course. I thought I'd mention that in 4th Edition and 5th Edition, dargonborn are a unique race. They aren't half-dragons and aren't born from dragon eggs (as with Dragonlance's draconians). They're a race that was created by the dragon deity; they have some features similar to dragons, but aren't related.
That's not terribly unique, though. In Mystara, the Wallara (Chameleon Men) cover that role.

GP

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:17 am
by Havard
agathokles wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 8:47 am
Tim Baker wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:32 pm
It's completely valid not to allow dragonborn in your Mystara campaign, of course. I thought I'd mention that in 4th Edition and 5th Edition, dargonborn are a unique race. They aren't half-dragons and aren't born from dragon eggs (as with Dragonlance's draconians). They're a race that was created by the dragon deity; they have some features similar to dragons, but aren't related.
That's not terribly unique, though. In Mystara, the Wallara (Chameleon Men) cover that role.

GP
You know, it could be interesting to use Dragonborn to replace the Wallara... The feel would be very different though :shock:

-Havard

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:39 pm
by agathokles
Havard wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:17 am
You know, it could be interesting to use Dragonborn to replace the Wallara... The feel would be very different though :shock:
Well, about the only connections are that they are both reptilian and connected to a dragon god. Other than that, Dragonborn are a (winged, IIRC) warrior race with dragon breath, whereas Chameleon Men are a race of "good savages", which in 4e/5e terms means they would be built for the Ranger and Cleric or Druid classes (I'd expect Wis and Dex bonuses, for example).

In the Savage Coast, the dragonborn could better cover the role of the Krolli (flying reptilian mercenaries from the Arm of the Immortal).

GP

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:07 am
by Robin
Tim Baker wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 11:32 pm
Robin wrote:
Mon Jan 07, 2019 6:19 pm
Dragonborn, = NO NO NO no no no no...a dragon is mighty enough to be interesting in its original form. the figures of these are maybe interesting, but in my opinion a dragon must be a dragon and nothing more (even though it could alter itself to appear human(oid). creating a humanoid races as dragonborne disrupte the plausibility of Dragons totally, and hence also the dragonborne
It's completely valid not to allow dragonborn in your Mystara campaign, of course. I thought I'd mention that in 4th Edition and 5th Edition, dargonborn are a unique race. They aren't half-dragons and aren't born from dragon eggs (as with Dragonlance's draconians). They're a race that was created by the dragon deity; they have some features similar to dragons, but aren't related.
I though Draconians from AD&D2 and Dragonborne were similar. thanx for the correction (still I don't like either....I prefer the monsters and races which have a Real World historic connection, one way or another, and not the weird created "things" from D&D3rd, 4th, 5th and even many AD&D2.
The feel which Mystara has, is that almost all creatures have a real world copy or real world legend/fairy tale origin, and hence could fill in the ecology, which makes it more real....Even though some later editions might be suitable AND with an ecological niche to be filled, most do not, hence in my opinion don't fit Mystara. Basic D&D, Gazetteers, and adventures, even most fan made/or adjusted still fit this bill, and many AD&D2 do, yet not most.)
At least that is my take on this matter.

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 1:41 am
by Cerulean
agathokles wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:39 pm
Havard wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:17 am
You know, it could be interesting to use Dragonborn to replace the Wallara... The feel would be very different though :shock:
Well, about the only connections are that they are both reptilian and connected to a dragon god. Other than that, Dragonborn are a (winged, IIRC) warrior race with dragon breath, whereas Chameleon Men are a race of "good savages", which in 4e/5e terms means they would be built for the Ranger and Cleric or Druid classes (I'd expect Wis and Dex bonuses, for example).

In the Savage Coast, the dragonborn could better cover the role of the Krolli (flying reptilian mercenaries from the Arm of the Immortal).

GP
Wallara are chameleon-men. So, they are essentially lizard-men right, not reptilian. Also, 4th edition dragonborn do not have wings (or tails for that matter). Just thought I’d clarify the details for those that didn't know.

Re: What non-standard PC races would you allow in your next Mystara Campaign? (Any edition)

Posted: Wed Jan 09, 2019 9:36 am
by Sturm
You were not replying to me but I failed to see any kind of 4ed bashing in this thread, certainly not in the phrases you quoted above, so I have to say the only "not proper approach in advocating some edition" here seems to be yours.
All the people who commented above were suggesting ways to use later editions races in Mystara. Some instead said they do not want to use them. Why are you actually making a fuss about other people's personal preferences, which by the way were expressed in the most polite way? This is not the proper approach to this forum at all.
Mostly because you are completely wrong. There isn't any kind of organized opposition to 4th edition here, indeed there was also a Mystara 4E Conversion Project sub-forum above, as you can see.
Your comments come out as unnecessary confrontational and out of line. I do not know where you ever encountered "continually bashing newer D&D editions on each and every thread that tries to discuss using Mystara with those newer D&D editions" but certainly it was NOT here.