Bloodsucking creatures and Reality in D&D

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Robin
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Bloodsucking creatures and Reality in D&D

Post by Robin » Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:45 pm

There is one important rule to keep in mind using bloodsucking creatures like;
Leeches, Giant leeches, Stirges, Lamprey, Giant Mosquitoes, and even Vampires and Nosferatu amongst some rarer others

They never suck more blood from the victim ((N)PC than they have hit points themselves.
Then they release, disperse, digest and /or reproduce somewhere else in a 'safe' location.
These creatures will see veins with blood coarsing through it from 120' distance by their ultraviolet vision, and hence they will negate any armor (unless fully covered=AV6+, then it ignores you as it might smell your blood, it can't see its intended target veins, or dripping blood)
They will smell blood creatures (not from insects, lowlife, undead, nor creatures with a natural Armor Value of 6 or higher=> or if not using Armor Value rules an Armor Class of 2 or lower) or loose blood (on the ground or in a sack) from a distance of 500! in a windless environment in less than 4 rounds. Any wind will push this with the windspeed further away in the direction of the wind, stretching the area permeated with the scent linear(dimiishing the sideway expansion by the same percentage).
The creatures will allways prefere 'exposed' veins above others, so it will not only ignore Armor, it will know the weak locations of familiar targets and attack there also ignoring dexterity effects on armor class.
Such a creature will be difficult to be removed or attacked by the target (-4 to hit, and any miss is a hit on oneself 25% chance), but if the target remains unmoving, the bloodsucking creature may be attacked by others at a +4 to hit.
They will make one attack unless driven off and the former wound is covered.
They will be able to be lured with exposed or loose blood. 1cn of blood equals 1 hp food for the creature.
each hp the creature ingested is enough to feed it for 1 HD for a week at most. This means a Stirge of 1 HD can feed itself for 1 week per hp, and a Giant leech of 6HD needs a minimum intake of 6 blood from any target to be able to do the same.
The blood can also be naturally used to heal any wounds the creature has at 1hp/day /HD of the creature. A wounded creature thus resores easily, yet it will need food sooner.
These creatures mostly will prefer unmoving(ie sleeping) creatures above moving creatures due the risk of self wounding.
Often females need a full dosage of blood to reproduce/lay eggs.

A typical Stirge has 1 HD=1d8 hp lets say 6 hp, allways negates any armor of AV6 or lower, thus preferring to attack neck and shouders, and will not suck more than 6 hp.
Image
A typical Giant Leech (http://www.pandius.com/Monster_Manual_3.pdf page 65 )of 6 HD =6d8 hp, lets say 25 hp, will attack exposed skin or through any armor of less than AV4 (damaging the armor in the process and lowering its effects by 1 for each attack) thus preferring to attack legs, crotch and belly, and will not suck more than 25 hp. (this is contradictionary to the Rules Cyclopedia information that it has to be killed to be removed. it will also release if exposed to fire or acid, or if carefully sliced off=succesful Healing skill required)
A typical Nosferatu has 7 to 9 HD lets take 8 HD =8d8hp so lets say 50 hp This creature is intelligent, and requires only 8hp (demi)human(oid) blood per week maximum to sustain itself. it will prefer to suck from Neck, wrist, armpits, crotch, ankles, kneepits. As being intelligent it will release at will and use its other attack forms to defend or defeat (it will feast on fallen ones after there is no more fight).

Most of these creatures (except the Vampire and Nosferatu) have an anti coagulant in their saliva, causing any wound to continue bleeding foor 1 hp/round thereafter unless stopped by any curing spell/potion/treatment/wound binding(these do need a succesful Healing skill though in addition)

As these creatures drink blood, they often also carry blood diseases/poisons, which they themselves are immune against. And thus have a chance to infect surviving targets with this disease.For examples of infection/diseases see http://www.pandius.com/diseases_and_healing.pdf page 18 and for incubation periods on page 4
A Stirge makes a wound of at least 3 inches deep and only 1 inch diameter where its proboscis beak penetrated the skin/clothing has a 10% of carrying a disease and transferring it to the target unless a save vs poison at -4 is made (due the depth of the wound). such an infection has a incubation period of depending on the onset/incubation period of the disease (mostly 2 days. a Cure Disease spell or treatment(ie herbs, drinks, ointment) will prevent the disease from becoming active or remove it afterwards
A Lamprey or Giant leach will leave an undeep but superficial skin wound of several inches diameter and a few millimeters deep. it has a 20% of carrying a disease and transferring it to the target unless a save vs poison is made (due the depth of the wound)
A Vampire/Nosferatu bites with two deep but small fangs has a 5% of carrying a disease and transferring it to the target unless a save vs poison at -2 is made (due the depth of the wound).

Other similar creatures will resemble these.

As common leeches (http://www.pandius.com/Monster_Manual_3.pdf page 65 )of only 1-3 inch have these same abilities , they however
suck away 4 times normal amounts of blood and take more time (4 hp/hp 1 Turn or more). They attack only in wet surrounding or underwater, and they do NOT need to make hit rolls. They have an painsensitive reducing salive and/or slime due which the target will not notice. The attack in greater numbers on each single target and fall off when saturated. The wound will continue to bleed for 10-Con adjustment rounds for 1 hp but will not become infected due the antibiotics in the saliva. You have to search for these creatures and remove them individually with a succesful healing skill and 3 rounds of time . (any failure is not removed at all= try again) salt, ash, or other dehydrating substances cause them to release their hold quickly, as will an open flame. An attached leech which is slain continues to draw blood at the normal rate for an additional 1d4 rounds.
Image
Maggots will act similar yet only eat dead flesh, and actually can be helpfull in healing processes on old wounds (depending on temperature 4 hours if warm/humid, 8 hours if war/dry, 1 day if temperate, 2 days if cold )with the use of a succesful healing skill
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Re: Bloodsucking creatures and Reality in D&D

Post by Havard » Fri Feb 08, 2019 10:29 pm

Very interesting concept. I like placing all of these creatures into the same category.

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Re: Bloodsucking creatures and Reality in D&D

Post by Khedrac » Sat Feb 09, 2019 8:57 am

Some interesting ideas, but others might be good for game-play but I don't think they can be called "realistic".
Robin wrote:
Thu Feb 07, 2019 4:45 pm
They never suck more blood from the victim ((N)PC than they have hit points themselves.
Then they release, disperse, digest and /or reproduce somewhere else in a 'safe' location.
Good start.
Robin wrote:These creatures will see veins with blood coarsing through it from 120' distance by their ultraviolet vision, and hence they will negate any armor (unless fully covered=AV6+, then it ignores you as it might smell your blood, it can't see its intended target veins, or dripping blood)
They will smell blood creatures (not from insects, lowlife, undead, nor creatures with a natural Armor Value of 6 or higher=> or if not using Armor Value rules an Armor Class of 2 or lower) or loose blood (on the ground or in a sack) from a distance of 500! in a windless environment in less than 4 rounds. Any wind will push this with the windspeed further away in the direction of the wind, stretching the area permeated with the scent linear(dimiishing the sideway expansion by the same percentage).
For a start I believe mosquitos etc. home in on the CO2 animals breathe out (probably plus other aspects of breath). So no, if you want to be realistic they are not seeing your blood and homing in on it. (Also what about cold-blooded animals that are not active?) I think some of the aquatic blood feeders home in on ammonia excreted?
I totally agree that they want to target unprotected skin, but most are not intelligent and have to find it - they just don't attempt to bite (usually) on think hide/clothes.
For the really small blood-suckers this probably equates to taking a few extra rounds to get to the unprotected skin before biting.
For stirge-sized creatures it's probably like snakes (especially spitting cobras) who target the lighter covered areas that move about - which tends to be face and hands. This is not the same as ignoring armour - if it approaches from the wrong directing it is not going to hit anything but armour - but it probably counts as a penalty to attack and a chance of ignoring armour.
Straight ignoring armour is way too powerful for things that are probably on the dumb side for animals.
Robin wrote:The creatures will allways prefere 'exposed' veins above others, so it will not only ignore Armor, it will know the weak locations of familiar targets and attack there also ignoring dexterity effects on armor class.
I'm sorry, but there are no grounds for ignoring Dex bonuses to AC unless the victim is unaware - that it a huge "power-up" with no justification in what you have written. It equates to saying that a dwarf knows how to attack goblins so ignores dexterity modifiers (all goblins dodge left) and ignores armour (always strike for the face).
Robin wrote:Such a creature will be difficult to be removed or attacked by the target (-4 to hit, and any miss is a hit on oneself 25% chance), but if the target remains unmoving, the bloodsucking creature may be attacked by others at a +4 to hit.
I would make this depend on the size of the attacker.
Robin wrote:...more good ideas...
Robin wrote:A typical Giant Leech of 6 HD =6d8 hp, lets say 25 hp, will attack exposed skin or through any armor of less than AV4 (damaging the armor in the process and lowering its effects by 1 for each attack) thus preferring to attack legs, crotch and belly, and will not suck more than 25 hp. (this is contradictionary to the Rules Cyclopedia information that it has to be killed to be removed. it will also release if exposed to fire or acid, or if carefully sliced off=succesful Healing skill required)
And now we are damaging armour - again, unless this is something the PCs and do (and quite a lot of other monsters can do) DON'T DO THIS - you are unbalancing the game for no clear reason.
Robin wrote:Most of these creatures (except the Vampire and Nosferatu) have an anti coagulant in their saliva, causing any wound to continue bleeding for 1 hp/round thereafter unless stopped by any curing spell/potion/treatment/wound binding(these do need a succesful Healing skill though in addition)
And you can add to that that all known bloodsuckers make a triangular hole which is very slow to heal - so why not allow the nosferatu to have anti-coagulant effects too? That said, I think 1hp/round too fast (especially at lower levels), 1hp/turn might be better, and it should naturally stop after some interval (say 1/20 total hp) - otherwise most low-level PCs will die from their first encounter unless the healer has spare cures left over.
Robin wrote:...more interesting ideas...
I wouldn't give leeches a chance to be antiseptic - medical leeches are very carefully raised to be disease free - I think wild ones are very likely to infect victims.
"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might just be a crow".

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Re: Bloodsucking creatures and Reality in D&D

Post by Robin » Sat Feb 09, 2019 1:01 pm

Thanx for the information and compliment :D

You are absolutely right :ugeek: Mosquitoes as bloodsucking creatures locate their targets from afar by the exhaled CO2, however, the sense the veins by ultraviolet/infrared and vibrations in close proximity. You could gamewise say these visions have a range of 1-2' and the larger ones 10'-20'
The aspect of ammonia secretion in water atracting aquatic bloodsuckers is also correct...yet even here in close proximity they notice movement and see the veins.I would set the distances as above.
Mosquitoes (small ones atleast) do land on a target, without stinging often. and this has varous reasons (competion, available veins, scent/sweat target, coverage, and visible target veins in sight).

A swarm of small mosquitoes does minimal amounts of damage and must be treated as an insect swarm. the bloodloss is also minimal. chance of disease contraction depends on the DM/location. and indeed such damages would begin at a minimal of 4 rounds after onset of the attack.

As to larger mosquitoes(D&D large mosquitoes are 8 to 30 inches), stirges (stirges are 2'wingspan)etc, they would be dependend on larger amounts of blood. These would not attack hands...their battle tactics (not intelligence based but natural experience) would make them prefer the neck, and back of target creatures out of two reasons, first they are themselves more difficult to be attacked or evicted, second the major veins are located there is a corporeal less protected (due movement requirements) area.
Of course a bikiniclad warrior maiden would be attacked on sides too when more of these creatures attack. The game rule of you can't be attacked by more than 7 creatures at the same target from all directions (11 if flying) i would also take in mind. and as soon as preferred places are taken by bloodsuckers less preferred might be chosen instead.

As to the Dexerity ignoring I agree to a point,...I would only allow this if attacked on the neck/top back section. so limiting such an attack to 1 or 2 depending on size indeed. I also agree the creature would need to have a surprise attack (or the target is as you said unaware of the attack) for such a bonus to apply. A large mosquitoes could not surprise from its sound but a Stirge might be able to do so...attavcking in a silent glide bracing just as the attack happens.
I agree this is a power up...As are the typical attack forms of any animal in reality; wolves attacking appendages and a strong (mostly alpha) attacking the throat, large cats using their mass to triple target, attacking back neck an/or throat to suffocate. These might be seen as powerups, yet these attacks are for real...In my MMMC1 you will notice more examples on pages 29-37
To bloodsucking cratures I forgot to add the surprise attack only as explained here. sorry :oops:

I agree size would make attacks on the bloodsucker sucking more difficult or easier. The stats I proposed are for an average of 1 to 2 feet sized creature. for each doubling of the size the bonusses would double too. and otherway around. others attacking a bloodsucker on someone else missing the attack or using brute force would also have a chance of harming the victim. make a secondary hit roll based on the victim to see if damage occurs or not.

As to damaging armor... I see this as something real...no armor would leave multple battles unharmed. They would need to have repairs or atleast checkups afterwards. of course magical armours would be more resilient, and need special care to be repaired, yet even these can be improvised.
An improvised repair would need material, and some minor tools (most fighter have these tools as needed for the daily weaponsharpening/care) and do not even need a special skill...any person able to wear armor, would be easily be explained by the first wear how to do this.
Of course these improvisations do not last long, so all armors must be checked at the earliest convieniance (smith, jeweler, toolcrafter, or any else with a special relatable crafte and tools) which would be a possible reason other than regulations why most adventurers do not wear armor in town. This would cost 2 to 8 sp per damaged Armor Value of the armor and afterwards it is as new (even if magical). An armor damaged multiple times before any such repair, would fall apart or otherwise becomes useless for each armor value point x 2 times the magical charge....a chain mail of AV 4 would fall apart after 4 such damages. if it is magical it could resist much more such damages(which would be smaller or less significant) an chain +1 would be 8 such inflictions, a plate +4 (AV6) would need 6x4=24 damages before becoming useless. once useless it can't be repaired.
This rule would make it logical for characters to exchange damaged armors for better ones found/taken/stolen/robbed, and also enables humanoids for bearing armor (damaged of course, yet even they might be able to restore this primitively...)

So I do not see this as something not to do...I don't see an unbalancing of the game in it. It would even be a goodtool to regulate overflow of items used and found. This is ofcourse for each DM and player group individually to determine. ;)

Nosferat with anticoagulat effects...hmm it feels logical :geek: , maybe the affliction gives the creature this effect, however i (thus far) see Nosferats as mildly altered humanoid creature with a limited (though powerful) set of requirements and traits. There is nothing against this.
1hp/round(10 seconds) felt for me too fast too, yet 1/turn(10 minutes=60 rounds) would be too slow...maybe 1hp/minute (6 rounds) might be better, or 1/two minutes(12 rounds). Your idea of a natural stop would seem reasonable. I would say 30 minus character's current constitution in rounds then the blood stops...so a weakened PC with a natural Constitution of 16, lowered to -4 due a disease, drain, magic or similar) would stop bleeding after 30-14=16 rounds.

I would agree to a point, yet even the most befilled leech has this ability in its saliva...however the amount of filth around its beak would logically negate this.

Thanx for the backup and discussion...it makes me think things over. ;)
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