M-Mars Gazetteer?

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Princess Strega
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M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Princess Strega »

It's a bit early in my exploration of Mystara to project myself to M-Mars. Before I do, I am rather curious if there has been a fannon gazetteer going over it in any level of detail.

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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Sturm »

Threshold issue #15 was about Mystaraspace http://pandius.com/thrs_mag.html#15 and my article in particular summarized the existing fan information about M-Mars http://pandius.com/mspcgude.html which would be named Vaniae - Ares - Rathanos - Sarimaar - Loth - Henrin or Zugzul by different cultures
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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Princess Strega »

Thanks Sturm!

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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Cthulhudrew »

I'll just chime in here to note that there has been very little canon exploration of the other planets besides Mystara. Some brief descriptions of one of Mystara's moons (Matera) and some geographical (bad term, I know) information about a few key points in space around the planet is about it. Everything else that is currently out there is largely fan-written/imagined based on extrapolations from very little data. While space travelers to Mystara appeared and were influential (ex. the crew of the Beagle in Mystara's past), space travel by Mystarans was never much of an area of development (ie, no Spelljammer supplements for Mystara back in the TSR era).

This might not have always been the case; at one point Bruce Heard was considering taking the Princess Ark crew on an extended journey into outer space, but instead opted to have them return to their more earthly explorations.
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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Seer of Yhog »

^^^This.

It's wide-open for development and experimentation - much like everything outside the Known World was, back in the early days of the Mystara Mailing List. Virgin territory beckons! :geek: :cool: :)
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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Chimpman »

We did some good speculation on M-Mars here on the Piazza as well in this thread:
[Mystaraspace] Map of M-Mars
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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by KtA »

Yes, there's some really cool stuff there... I especially like the Cydonia / Nithia connection, with pyramids and such.

I would imagine M-Mars as being mostly desert, but probably "cold desert" like the Gobi rather than classic Arabia / Sahara style hot desert. Probably with steppes in somewhat wetter regions, for Thark-type nomadic cultures. Maybe volcanic regions like the Craters of the Moon area in Idaho...

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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by RobJN »

There isn't much, but Thorn's Chronicle has a take on M-Mars....
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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by KtA »

Nili Fossae ought to be another old Nithian site, along with Cydonia. This area is really interesting on the real-world Mars since it has a significant carbonate deposit, kind of a relic of an once denser Martian atmosphere that has now mostly escaped into space - on the fantasy Mars of Mystara's system it might contain a prison for trapped Air Elementals. Perhaps Nithians on M-Mars/Vaniae fought with the Alphatian Followers of Air when they entered the Mystara system, before they settled on Mystara itself?

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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by KtA »

Hmmm, also, another region that is really interesting on the real Mars is Tharsis, with its incredibly enormous volcanoes. On M-Mars/Vaniae, this might be a homeland for Hephaestons.

The high plateau would probably be a severe cold desert, and might largely be limited to more elemental earth-oriented/mineral life forms, like Sandfolk, Rock Men, Kryst, etc. The cold desert could also be a home to Blue and White Dragons, especially on the fringes where they lair in the higher elevations and hunt in lower ones.

It's also close to Noctis Labyrinthus, which the old thread had as a realm of (possibly vampiric, possibly winged) minotaurs.

And, Olympus itself. Surely this must have some connection to the Immortals...

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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by KtA »

I see there is a planetary map by Chimpman in that old thread. Has anyone done anything on a more regional/local scale?

I'm thinking of tackling the Olympus / Tharsis / Amazonis Planitia area.

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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Robin »

I have somewhere an old 3d mapping /imaging software on which Mons Olympus was detailed.
You literally could add vegetation to it and view if from all sides. I'll take a peek if I still have it. So I can share what it is,
in the mean time, maybe this helps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvDQOiBEePw

https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bestand ... pus_3D.gif

Image
Image
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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by KtA »

Thank you!

Given the name, I think Olympus would have to be linked to the Immortals... the local name would perhaps be "the Torch of the Immortals" - Olympus on Vaniae (M-Mars) being a currently active volcano, unlike the one on our universe's Mars. The mountain would emit a continuous cloud of smoke and perhaps a dull red glow... it would be seen by the inhabitants of Vaniae as something like an 'eternal flame' combined with a sacred mountain.

While the large scale geology/topography is similar to our universe's Mars, the fact that the Torch is active would mean that there are more geothermal features around it... secondary cones and vents, maybe hot springs and pools...

The upper slopes of the mountain would be impossible for normal living creatures to reach without powerful magic, as the air is far too thin to survive (Olympus is something like 3x taller than Everest). There would probably be a major shrine at the upper end of 'climbable' altitude, on the east side (as shown on the contour map Robin posted, the steep cliff/escarpment/whatever that mostly surrounds it is missing on part of the east side.) This area would be a sacred land which is open to all and not claimed by any nation.

The area would probably be relatively remote from major nations anyway ... on a "living" version of Mars, the Tharsis plateau would probably be high, cold desert. It might be inhabited by a nation of Sandfolk tribes, as they are silicon-based so could probably live in a very dry and barren environment. Maybe Rock Men also.

To the east is Amazonis Planitia, which according to the old thread is inhabited by a nation of Pyrithian Amazons. So the Torch might mark a divide between those territories, as well as being a sacred location.

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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by KtA »

A hex map of the Torch of the Immortals (Olympus area), between the Amazonis Planitia grasslands and the cold desert of the Tharsis Plateau.

EDIT - Scale: 24 miles per hex. (At the widest point, the Torch of the Immortals is a bit over 380 miles across.)
Image

Some notes:
- The shape of the mountain is not quite identical to our universe's equivalent, both because it is active (thus the extra volcanic vents at the base) and because either the Immortals or some powerful ancient hero (perhaps a Paragon candidate?) reshaped the western side to create the Sacred Approach. Thus, it's a bit less symmetrical.

-The dashed white line around the central crater and its surroundings represents the highest altitude that air-breathing creatures can survive.

- The Great Shrine, reached by the Sacred Approach up the mountainside, is devoted to all Immortals, but is tended by archons. Since these are creatures of Energy, this may support the idea that the Sacred Approach was created by a Paragon.

- Since the area is considered sacred and not claimed by any nation, groups of exiles, outcasts, fugitives, outlaws etc. have gathered here, forming two small settlements.

-Night's End (population 400) is a poor village founded by a group of minotaurs exiled from Noctaurus (the Labyrinth of Night). About 200 years ago, a prince and his following and servants chose to "settle the wilderness" to avoid execution after losing a conflict over succession; their descendants now inhabit this small canyon oasis at the edge of the grasslands.

-Fire Lake (population 1,000) is named after the volcanically-heated lake of the same name and inhabited primarily by an ancient Nithian-derived fire cult that worships the Elemaster of Fire and the Immortals of Energy, especially Ixion, though Pyrithian outcasts from Amazonis Planitia have settled here more recently as well.
Last edited by KtA on Sun May 17, 2020 1:58 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Sturm »

Great material, following with interest!
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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Robin »

Indeed nice map. I assume 72 mile hexes? or bigger?

If tou read this http://pandius.com/Immortals_of_Mystara.pdf page 648...it might be of some Immortal use
The mars volcano Mount Olympus could have an open gate to/from the Outer Plane Olympus, even able to view Mars on other locations
The other Immortals suitable are on other pages.
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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by KtA »

Robin wrote:
Fri May 15, 2020 1:34 pm
Indeed nice map. I assume 72 mile hexes? or bigger?
Oops, forgot to specify... actually it should be 24 mile hexes. Olympus isn't THAT big. (The real-world one is about 370 miles wide; on the map it's 16 hexes north-south at the widest point, so 16 x 24 = 384 miles.)

Which is still pretty enormous... the Big Island of Hawaii is less than 100 miles across and is made of five different shield volcanoes stuck together, two of which (Mauna Kea/Mauna Loa) are among the largest on Earth.
If tou read this http://pandius.com/Immortals_of_Mystara.pdf page 648...it might be of some Immortal use
The mars volcano Mount Olympus could have an open gate to/from the Outer Plane Olympus, even able to view Mars on other locations
The other Immortals suitable are on other pages.
I had kind of imagined it as a place to petition Immortals in general, at the Great Shrine... and really high-level characters planning to embark on a quest might reach the peak itself to petition their patron Immortal, surviving via magic items or spells, or maybe other means (help from an air-elemental creature perhaps) etc....

Linking to an Outer Plane of Olympus would certainly make sense. Thank you!

It might have a variety of links to different Outer Planes in different areas - perhaps lining up with the elemental associations of the Spheres... planes of Energy link to the regions with active lava, planes of Matter link to regions of cooled solid rock, planes of Time link to hydrothermal features like geysers and hot springs, planes of Thought to the unbreathably thin air above. Not sure about Entropy. Perhaps there is a graveyard of those who died in attempts to climb it, tended by some undead mortal servant of Entropy?

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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by KtA »

I should give credit to everyone who contributed to the old M-Mars thread linked above, especially Chimpman. His planetary maps (linked in that thread) are what I'm using as a baseline, and the nation names largely come from there as well - either the map or the thread.

Noctaurus

Real-world Mars Equivalent: Noctis Labyrinthus
Origin: Taymora on Mystara

Noctaurus is a realm of canyons, mesas, and rocky hills -- a harsh landscape between the cold wastes of Tharsis, the waters of the Valles Marineris, and the spider-ruled desert of Mygalla. It is a militaristic empire in a largely barren land. Noctaurus is not terribly populous, compared to the other powerful nations of Vaniae, but it has the advantages of rich mineral and water resources, the great strength of minotaur soldiers, and the terrible powers of its monstrous rulers.

Demographics
Population: 90,000
Composition: 90% normal minotaurs, 5% winged minotaurs (<<1% vampire minotaurs), 5% other (mostly sandfolk)
Largest City: Arx Phoboi (10,000)
Other Cities: Oppidum Deimoi (8,000); Urbs Caeli (6,000)

The vast majority of the population of Noctaurus are ordinary minotaurs, except that their intelligence is somewhat greater than that of the minotaurs of Mystara, comparable to orcs. They serve as farmers, hunters, laborers, soldiers, and ordinary craftsmen.

Winged minotaurs form the nobility. These are as intelligent as humans and are responsible for the most skilled and valued crafts, as well as for directing and overseeing the labors of the ordinary minotaurs, serving as officers in the military, and administering the provinces and smaller dominions.

Some of the nobility are vampires as well - about 400 overall.

Non-minotaurs are either aranea spies or diplomats from Mygalla, giff mercenaries or traders from the eastern Valles Marineris, tribal sandfolk in the Western Province, or captured sandfolk taken in raids (either as slaves or for sacrifices to the Immortals of Entropy).

Government Structure:
Three great houses - Phobos (vampire minotaurs), Deimos (vampire minotaurs), and Caelus (living winged minotaurs) - rule the land. The emperor is chosen from among them (theoretically by election; in practice intimidation, assassination, and even outright war also contribute to the decision).

The current emperor is of the House of Phobos and has ruled for 200 years; his predecessor, of the House of Deimos, ruled for 1,500 years before being assassinated.

Each House rules a province of its own, nearly independent except for providing taxes and troops to the emperor. The other two provinces (Central and Western) are ruled by governors appointed by the Emperor.

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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by KtA »

OK, first big decision to make... what to do with the canals?

The map from the old thread (by Chimpman) shows three canals going into the Tharsis area and joining up. If we are assuming that the broad topography of Vaniae is that of our Universe's Mars, just with life and magic added on top, this doesn't seem like a very good place for canals. The Tharsis Rise is a very high plateau, so the canal-builders would have had to cut nearly miles deep. And it doesn't seem that there is much reason to irrigate the area.

Perhaps the Alphatian settlers / early Empire used Paragon-type landscape reshaping magic to make the canals. If the Old Alphatians could blow up a planet, digging canals even miles deep seems pretty small in comparison. But why would they bother, in an area they don't seem to control? Maybe they did once...

I cut off the Torch of the Immortals map immediately south of the mountain to avoid having to decide yet. But for Noctaurus and the plateau of Tharsis itself, I can't do that.

So - what do you think? Should I take the planetary map and canals as 'canon'?

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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Sturm »

Couldn't they be lava canals? I agree that irrigation maybe would be a bit strange. Yet the local people should have some source of water somewhere.
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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Robin »

Glad to have helped

as to the canals on Mars
these apparent systems of long, straight linear markings on the surface of Mars that are now known to be illusions caused by the chance alignment of craters and other natural surface features seen in telescopes near the limit of resolution.
Image
that real life response said; this means they are illusions created by geological incidents.features. it would not be logical these to be canals, and lava ways would affect the trajectory continuously...
in my humble opinion, these lines could me the single and only major trackroads. thus being very wide for the gargantuan rolling cities that move along these ways over the planet following a mseasonal agenda similar to the movie Mortal Engines
Image
Image
Image

this would make much more sense...in a fantasy way...for these lines to exist, and even sometimes change (tracks eventually erode away, and new ones are chosen)
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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Robin »

Instead of engines, or magical powered constructs these cities could be Earthquake beetles
Image

Or huge turtles
https://www.ecopetit.cat/wpic/mpic/90-9 ... rtoise.jpg
Image

Or huge mammoth-like beings
Image

Or a surface crawling wurn
Image

Just some crazy ideas :o :mrgreen:
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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by Wangalade »

just got the mars atlas from the kickstarter, and it is beautiful. really makes me want to get my players on mars now
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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by KtA »

Sturm wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 8:18 am
Couldn't they be lava canals?
Do you mean, holding molten lava, or (water-holding) canals formed by volcanism (rather than by technological or magical means) - like open lava tubes?
Yet the local people should have some source of water somewhere.
Well, I was thinking Tharsis itself (as opposed to the villages around the Torch of the Immortals on the east, and Noctaurus on the southwest) would be mostly populated by 'alien' creatures that didn't really need much if any - primarily Sandfolk, but with various Earth creatures as well (earth elementals, kryst, maybe desert ghosts...)

There would, however, be 'oases' of ordinary biological life where hot springs / geysers / etc. provided liquid water.

EDIT:
Robin wrote:
Mon May 18, 2020 9:33 pm
Instead of engines, or magical powered constructs these cities could be Earthquake beetles
[...]

Or a surface crawling wurn
OK, that is so awesome. Yeah, that must be what they are - tunnels or gullies made by gigantic burrowing / crawling creatures. That could even fit with the idea that Tharsis is full of creatures tied to elemental earth.

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Re: M-Mars Gazetteer?

Post by KtA »

EDIT: Somehow I accidentally made a new post that was just quoting my last post... Weird.

Well, while I have the space, a bit more about Noctaurus:

Religion: Orcus is the patron Immortal of the ruling House of Phobos, so the worship of Orcus is the 'official' religion of the empire. In Arx Phoboi, the Emperor's own city, captured enemies, criminals, rebels etc. are often sacrificed to Orcus at midnight ceremonies presided over by the Emperor.

However, worship of Orcus is not required, and is rare in much of the Empire. The House of Deimos gives some attention to Orcus, as prince of the undead, but their primary patron is Thanatos instead. The House of Caelus favors Korotiku and is leery of many of the Immortals of Entropy, but they do give some lip service to Thanatos. The lesser nobility usually honor some combination of these three, as well as other Immortals of Thought or Entropy.

Common minotaurs usually follow either Thanatos (the sacrifices tend to make them leery of Orcus) or one of several Immortals of Matter. Their beliefs are rather informal and without ceremonies.

Clerics usually derive from the nobility, but rarely become truly powerful. (In BECMI rules, they are shamans; in 5E, they have normal cleric abilities, usually of the Knowledge or Death domains, but few rise beyond 4th level.)

Military Forces: Noctaurus has standing military forces composed of about 1,000 common minotaurs and 100 nobles. With the exception of the Emperor's personal honor guard, none of the nobles in the military are vampires, since they cannot fight in daylight.

Each city has a garrison, numbering about 2% of its overall population, and under the control of the House that rules that city and province. Other garrisons occupy castles in the Imperial provinces (Central and Western) or on the Mygallan border - these are under Imperial control, through a general appointed by the Emperor.

Each garrison is divided into units of 20 common minotaurs commanded by 1 noble. Smaller outposts scattered across the Empire in defensible locations support one unit each.

City Garrisons
Arx Phoboi - 200 + 10 nobles
Oppidum Deimoi - 160 + 8 nobles
Urbs Caeli - 120 + 6 nobles

Other Garrisons
Western Province - 100 + 5 nobles
Central Province - 180 + 9 nobles
Mygallan Border - 120 + 6 nobles

Outposts (total) - 120 + 6 nobles

Elite Units
Honor Guard - 10 vampire nobles
Frontier Scouts - 50 nobles

Relationships with other Nations
Noctaurus receives trade along the waters of the Valles Marineris, from the giff and gren nations to the east. Mygalla, to the south, is considered dangerous and untrustworthy, but overt conflict is rare (beyond occasional border skirmishes). The highlands of Tharsis block most contact with the west.

The minotaurs of Noctaurus are aware of, and very wary of, the Alphatians (Empire of Rabdriss), but have little to no contact. Still, the potential threat is one reason (beyond preventing internal rebellion / coup attempts by other Houses, and watching the Mygallan border) that Noctaurus maintains its military forces at this level.

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