another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Sun Dec 11, 2016 2:13 pm

so with a plan in mind... time to start wrapping all this up, the underdeveloped history of western Glantri to be touched upon in the Sablestone and New Averoigne Principality writeups.

Starting with revising my Sablestone writeup.. I had touched upon the Outerworlders as the original settlers of the region.. but purposefully left it vague pending the completion of the big picture history which was the Averognians and their messy history and piecing together their part in this.
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by Robin » Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:13 pm

Micky?? What's your opinion on my last suggestions on Redstone?
And on the map thus far?

Any additional input of yours is very welcome, especially the Silver Sierras Free Province...because that is a sociocultural blanc slate at the moment.

I have the feeling (3-6) more settlements can be placed in/near the hills either for coal mining or sheep/goat herding. It is a large area seemingly without much sociocultural use...thusfar...any ideas on this?


From that idea I can create trails, mines, wizard towers, local oddities, etc.
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Sun Dec 11, 2016 5:36 pm

I'm heading to the maps in a little bit Robin. My head is hurting after all the number crunching I just did in the Sablestone writeups and need a break from that.

I'll take a look at the latest version of Redston and give ya my feedback. Sorry for lack of attention... too many things going on at once hahah
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by Robin » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:15 pm

I understand.
don't forget to read/judge the suggestions I made above.

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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:39 pm

Robin wrote:Here a merger map guideline to your question
I took Both Your and Sean Meaney's map, and merged those http://sta.sh/01z60c004qjq

As Sean's map was 1014 with meteor I removed the meteor section as that did not happen yet, so that area was taken over by your map (Sean's section "Remove", Your Section "keep")

makes sense... I'm not familiar with Sean's maps as I have a mental block against anything meteor related for obvious reasons
:lol:

Image

As Sean's map was set with mountains and valleys, these must have existed prior so that Area was base there (Sean's "keep") but details from your map like the village Solen, Mountain tops, etc was merged with sean's map (Your "detail merge") and thus appeared on the opposite site lake.
The remaining sector was merged totally. I tried to use Sean's map as base but kept all geological areas from your map, then added details from your map.

I agree that the hexes SW of the Redstone rock are hills on your map, but as Sean's earlier map was set as base that area I chose as dominant.

as you see the final result. both maps together set patterns for your streams, and a fertile area to life from.

I do agree that the hilly forest region from your map (dots) could be added
and that the line of hills along the east could be expanded somewhat (lines).But as Sean's map holds grass, i preferred it to be of agricultural use (12-17) produce hexes and (15-23) cattle hexes (2nd numbers without the extra hills) is not that much if you see these are 1 mile hexes, to enable a stable food for a decent population.

note though Redstone is an agriculturally deficient area. It doesn't grow all the food it needs. It has to import food. It is a frontier borderland dominion. Set in a bit of a barren hinterland location


If indeed that section would be infused in an 8 mile hex it would be 64 hex where most would needed to be the same. if doing the extra hilly/forest hexes the grassy/production hexes remaining would be 12+15=27 is less than half, the remaining hexes are variations of hill or rock, so it would become a hill hex. :P :geek: it looks larger/more due its shape, some other production hexes strech into the next 8 mile hex, but that is an optical illusion. if you reflect it upon your nicely drawn red hex lines it does fit as 8 mile hex filledwith mostly hill in variations
. (sorry sometimes --especially when I am tired --(its03;30 here, and i can't sleep..again :? )-- i can become somewhat defensive.., nothing against you)

none taken :cool:

I myself think the grassy hills north of the lake should hold some more trees (not evergreen). which belong to the habitat/feeding and living patterns of beavers. As thus I suggest the first 2 miles to be forested, even around Solen.(pink lines)

I see no reason why they can not!

I also think the barren hills South should have some more trees (pine I think), but as this region is more wind instead fluvial(water) erosion prone, thus less minerals to feed upon are available. yet still the wetter sections should have some more vegetation, don't you agree?(purple lines),

I think the barren hills fit Redstone well and for the reasons you say... wind erosion and all that jazz.

the orange lines I am unsure if they should have forest or not, one way not resembles your map more, one way yes it deems more natural, and sociocultural realistic.
What's your choice in this?

not seeing orange... just some red

The two red blobs were mountain on your map, grass on sean's. they could be produce or hills. what's your idea about these?

I am a bit hesistant to agree with making this dominion too flat or too grassy... but I defer to you completely Robin. I have a notion of Redstone being not exactly a pretty place. Rolling featureless barren hills are a fact of Glantri, like G;KoM :lol: notes... just the place where you come upon a lonely wizards tower out of nowhere. I sort of saw, and wrote this dominion upis a prime example of such a place. Big difference between the hills of Westheath for example and those of Redstone. I am hesitant in my maps to get too creative with them, some places are simply plain and boring and again.. Redstone is a perfect example of it. It gets by by mining and herding livestock. It gets its produce from elsewhere it isn't really a good place to try one's hand at farming... unlike Westheath which by the 8 mile hex map.. has the same terrain.


The Lake is an undeep lake (20-35'at best. sides slowly sloping) slow running water, as I said earlier; 7 the swamp at Maltid. There must be a reason. If this is geological, this will widen the river there and create swampy edges, if it is biological (like a beaverdam--which according to Canon seem to life in abundance in Glantri..as they are one of the most hunted skin/fur stock) that must have a clear location, and a sort of lake behind it. Many glantrian small lakes could well be beaver lakes created with a dam.

being a hot blooded Oregonian male...I am all about Beavers. Bring 'em on....

As following to this idea, combining it with ecological and geological fundamentals and the strange shape of the lake while the river still runs through, I indeed chose the beaver lake, but with three dams...so several sets of beaver families, each lake lowering the levels some feet. From top 7820' an easy decent over12 miles to 7810', then dam 1, lowering water 15' to roughly 7795' abveraging to 7790'with an easy decent over6 miles to dam2, lowering water 10'to roughly 7780'with an easy decent over 8 miles to 7770' to the last dam, lowering water 10-15' going further down in a moderate decent in 4 miles to 7650' and then moderate further down with rapid sections in between. Due to the easy decent borders are extremely moist and prone to swampy vegetation. This is exactly what I saw growing in my head. :o :lol: :o :roll: when i envision your and sean's map together.
The lake has no name as of yet so if you have any suggestions: Local history, important identities (lake "person's name"), or the lakes use(Beaver lake or ssuch) deem best.
Beaver Lake it is!!! :cool:
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:42 pm

Robin wrote:Draft 6
http://sta.sh/027hjarri9re
I have not yet implemented any of the above suggestions, therefor I need your input too. :P
I have , though, followed the laws of nature, ecology, gravity and weather to determine vegetation and agricultural use of the area in between the eastern part of the map and Redstone. I've also added more detail to the Silver Sierras.

As you brought up the idea of grassy hills and I implemented these by a new Hex for it, I also devised the agricultural use of the region; Mostly these would be Goat or Sheep and some cattle, the first in vast herds with shephards, the second in medium herds often on the edge of the mountainous regions and drier hills, cattle in small herds.. all very similar to Scotland agriculture anno 1600.
As thus Redstone and the Silver Sierra free Province would have a great use of wool, milk, cheese and fabric making.
I see magic spinning wheels, shearing fests, cheese roll runns, and cattle games,.
agreed... I could see a roaring business in livestock based products. Much less so in growing things...
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:49 pm

Robin wrote:I understand.
don't forget to read/judge the suggestions I made above.

Keep y'r head on da stickImage
:lol: perfect picture of me after 2 hours of crunching population and demographic numbers to make sure my Glantrian population numbers match Gaz and the post war post plague Glantri. I do think I am going to need to cut some of my 1014 numbers a bit. Suprisingly enough a strict application of the Gaz3 per hex population formula gives us Glantri a population of just over 800k which I think was very close to the actual total given in Gaz3.

where it gets fun is killing off population to get us around the 700k mark given in the PWA. I'm at just over 700k with just 5 dominions to be added.. figure a 1000 per... means I'll have to do a bit of trimming.. likely will trim off the larger Free Provinces like Nyra to reach the population goal. I used pretty much an across the board 10% reduction when doing 1014 population totals... probably should have done 12%.
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by Robin » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:35 pm

Ok
Nice your input as thought feed :mrgreen:

Beaverlake it is ;)

maybe weird idea....in the Champions of Mystara boxed set page 57 are Mugumba Mud Dwellers; aka sentient Beaverman, Mugumbas are relatively peaceful creatures. They canonically are described to exist only in the Okwonga Lowlands, but the accompaning art suggest evergreen mountainous region too!!
You were looking for a creature, it this befitting your idea? They would fit in the region ..!! :o


To the map
7th draw (some earlier versions removed)http://sta.sh/022whawg335y
Added the hill suggestions, as you disliked the flat areas, thus decreased the amount of flat areas.
Added some forested evergreen hills along the creek to give credence to the villages.
Added forested deciduous hills (propably mostly birch, beech and populus) north of the lake
added the Solen plank bridge over beaverlake
Image
Added some more mines
Named the three beaverdams, and Beaverlake.
Added a mine disaster with village ruin (they dug underneath settlement and mine collapsed https://fromalaskatobrazil.files.wordpr ... o-mine.jpg
Causing a region 2 miles diameter to decent several hundred feet, destroying the village and killing many. The location still is as it was left. Some of the dead might have become undead (mostly ghosts) or are taken by nearby mages as animated tools/slaves. This disasters caused the main redstone mine to be carefully scrutinized in fear of collapse, as that mine is several layeres and hundreds of yards wide in either direction but up, and could (they thought) suffere the same, but this is metallic rock instead packed crushed mountain eroded by time and weakened by extensive overzealous mining. :P The name of the village is removed, and it is now coalled "Mine disaster"
Added some mage towers
added several hamlets
added minor trails
Added some monsters (Hillgiant and Cyclops the Northern Hills) as these were described canonically within this region.

Redstone annual Cheese run to bring the first fresh cheese of the Year (month 2 after winter when the animals are released from the stables and eat the first fresh grass...in fact this is the best cheese existing...as Dutch cheese devouring human, I know best ;) ...just 80 kilo/year :mrgreen: :lol: ) and choose the most daring Redstone inhabitant as the year's local hero/fool/daredevil
https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/20 ... 897434.jpg

Hope you like this :shock:

I still think some more villages should be in the SS free Province (either mining, or produce)
Last edited by Robin on Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:56 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:41 pm

Robin wrote:Ok
Nice your input as thought feed :mrgreen:

Beaverlake it is ;)

maybe weird idea....in the Champions of Mystara boxed set page 57 are Mugumba Mud Dwellers; aka sentient Beaverman, Mugumbas are relatively peaceful creatures. They canonically are described to exist only in the Okwonga Lowlands, but the accompaning art suggest evergreen mountainous region too!!
You were looking for a creature, it this befitting your idea? They would fit in the region ..!! :o

I really like that.. instead of giving the region 'spice' through interesting varied terrain..not every area is so blessed.... do so with the inhabitants. I like that. I like that a lot. :D


To the map
7th draw (some earlier versions removed)http://sta.sh/0ojm6ftcfng
Added the hill suggestions, as you disliked the flat areas, thus decreased the amount of flat areas.
Added some forested evergreen hills along the creek to give credence to the villages.
Added forested deciduous hills (propably mostly birch, beech and populus) north of the lake
added the Solen plank bridge over beaverlake
Image
Added some more mines
Named the three beaverdams, and Beaverlake.
Added a mine disaster with village ruin (they dug underneath settlement and mine collapsed https://fromalaskatobrazil.files.wordpr ... o-mine.jpg
Causing a region 2 miles diameter to decent several hundred feet, destroying the village and killing many. The location still is as it was left. Some of the dead might have become undead (mostly ghosts) or are taken by nearby mages as animated tools/slaves. This disasters caused the main redstone mine to be carefully scrutinized in fear of collapse, as that mine is several layeres and hundreds of yards wide in either direction but up, and could (they thought) suffere the same, but this is metallic rock instead packed crushed mountain eroded by time and weakened by extensive overzealous mining. :P The name of the village is removed, and it is now coalled "Mine disaster"
Added some mage towers
added several hamlets
added minor trails
Added some monsters (Hillgiant and Cyclops the Northern Hills) as these were described canonically within this region.

Redstone annual Cheese run to bring the first fresh cheese of the Year (month 2 after winter when the animals are released from the stables and eat the first fresh grass...in fact this is the best cheese existing...as Dutch cheese devouring human, I know best ;) ...just 80 kilo/year :mrgreen: :lol: ) and choose the most daring Redstone inhabitant as the year's local hero/fool/daredevil
https://metrouk2.files.wordpress.com/20 ... 897434.jpg

Hope you like this :shock:
Taking a looksie at the map! I'm sure I will Robin. I'm easy to please, just pointed with feedback when asked (or even when not)
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by Robin » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:43 pm

Feedback in any decent form is always right and never wrong.

I thrive upon feedback :P
My mind could thus enter a sort of mental rolercoaster..like with the Mugumba above...I'll add them ecologically correct in semblance to beavers.

This would also mean that the villages Solen and Maltid are often visited by these creatures. Some interesting social aspect could come forth. Mugumbas will not be pleased, nor offended by beaver hunters, as long they are NOT the target.
Last edited by Robin on Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Sun Dec 11, 2016 8:46 pm

love it Robin! I need a break from writing and thinking hahha. I need to catch up with some map work. I'll translate that Redstone to my map and perhaps do some further work with it in some areas you haven't gone yet this evening.
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by Robin » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:20 pm

Ok nice Mugumbas. This made me think...
But how do they come here ...in Glantri...far, far away from their original habitat.
http://oi66.tinypic.com/xn6kpx.jpg
Some options,.
1 young adventurous ones travelled the world and found Glantri...Not very logical; Not only is there a very vast desert, the highest mountain chain on the continent, and an ocean in the way. These areas are all opposed the the ecological adaptations of the creature and thus will very severely hinder or even totally prevent functioning, let alone passing through the area (without any goal in mind). The only solution could be high level Mugumba's on an Immortal guided quest, along the coast, through Atruaghin, then either west around Lake amsorak or east through the Malpheggi Swamp, Darokin, to finally go through the silver Sierras into Darokin. an epic quest indeed. staying behind in the Malpheggi would be more logical. secondly this must have happened just a few years prior or even during the Great War, making it even a greater difficulty. Either way, ....if succesful...several HIgh level Mugumba must be available on their destination, and one maybe even on its Immortality Quest.

2 Another more logical and more reasonable solution is that several Mugumba's were captured either locally and sold as slaves to.., or were captured by Hulean agents. Some could have survived their capture, imprisonment, ordeal and even the travel to Darokin during the beginning Great War. As most of the Known World was someway affected or drawn already into the war it is logical to assume the Mugambas were intended to be used as digger/fortification sappers and or spies. As thus they could have been captured, or freed from the Huleans. As impossible due local circumstances to return them, they could have been sold to some eager mage, interested in a new species to examine. One of these mages could have seen the semblance to normal beavers and could have collected several specimen and brought them to Redstone(amongst others), in an environment made by beavers, (thus more or less equal to their own). Eitherway if you use the Meteor as Canon, or Micky's option as Thar War, the region they were placed survived (though damaged and altered severely due the impact quake(s)), and hence could give a new race to Glantri. Btw Glantri city, as being a morass, would seem different but warm and wet enough to resemble "home".

3 An immortal (or human able to transport/teleport) could have purposedly or accidently send them here. I don't like this option, as it removes the charm of the creatures and possible greatness.


Havard made this Basic D&D addition http://www.pandius.com/mugumba2.html
Jamie Baty this later D&D edition alteration http://www.pandius.com/mugumba.html
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:40 pm

I did some translation in the south. did some addition in the north...


coming along nicely. I am going to have some feedback Robin (duh duh dah :lol: ) but my eyes are about to fall out of my skull so I'll get to them tomorrow.

picture is too big to post on the forum haha.. so here is a link to it.

http://s5.photobucket.com/user/magnific ... x.png.html
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:46 pm

aren't those the cutest of D&D critters... :lol:
Robin wrote:Ok nice Mugumbas. This made me think...
But how do they come here ...in Glantri...far, far away from their original habitat.
http://oi66.tinypic.com/xn6kpx.jpg
Some options,.
1 young adventurous ones travelled the world and found Glantri...Not very logical; Not only is there a very vast desert, the highest mountain chain on the continent, and an ocean in the way. These areas are all opposed the the ecological adaptations of the creature and thus will very severely hinder or even totally prevent functioning, let alone passing through the area (without any goal in mind). The only solution could be high level Mugumba's on an Immortal guided quest, along the coast, through Atruaghin, then either west around Lake amsorak or east through the Malpheggi Swamp, Darokin, to finally go through the silver Sierras into Darokin. an epic quest indeed. staying behind in the Malpheggi would be more logical. secondly this must have happened just a few years prior or even during the Great War, making it even a greater difficulty. Either way, ....if succesful...several HIgh level Mugumba must be available on their destination, and one maybe even on its Immortality Quest.

2 Another more logical and more reasonable solution is that several Mugumba's were captured either locally and sold as slaves to.., or were captured by Hulean agents. Some could have survived their capture, imprisonment, ordeal and even the travel to Darokin during the beginning Great War. As most of the Known World was someway affected or drawn already into the war it is logical to assume the Mugambas were intended to be used as digger/fortification sappers and or spies. As thus they could have been captured, or freed from the Huleans. As impossible due local circumstances to return them, they could have been sold to some eager mage, interested in a new species to examine. One of these mages could have seen the semblance to normal beavers and could have collected several specimen and brought them to Redstone(amongst others), in an environment made by beavers, (thus more or less equal to their own). Eitherway if you use the Meteor as Canon, or Micky's option as Thar War, the region they were placed survived (though damaged and altered severely due the impact quake(s)), and hence could give a new race to Glantri. Btw Glantri city, as being a morass, would seem different but warm and wet enough to resemble "home".

3 An immortal (or human able to transport/teleport) could have purposedly or accidently send them here. I don't like this option, as it removes the charm of the creatures and possible greatness.


Havard made this Basic D&D addition http://www.pandius.com/mugumba2.html
Jamie Baty this later D&D edition alteration http://www.pandius.com/mugumba.html
hmmm.. my vote...

subject for magical experiments... and the wizard who bought them to Glantri to do nefarious and dastardly things in the name of science just couldn't do it... I mean .. look at them. They are so cute, so rather than take them back to the monster dealer to get his jack back man... and become the laughing stock of all Glantri City he instead set them free. When he did they multiplied like cute little critters do when not chaperoned.
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by Robin » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:58 pm

They are indeed cute
Image

Oww I like your idea even better. Nasty & Nice

I'll check your map...when my PC stops jamming on Photobucket...(probably tommorrow)
Hmm...and giving me a map that is not as hazy as if I am Drunk or nearsighted.
I'll try again tommorrow.

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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Mon Dec 12, 2016 1:23 pm

two things I noted Robin when I translated yesterday...

I think that valley north of Redstone is far too large. Again, if one scaled up that hex would be a hill hex on the 8 mile map, it is a mountain hex so I'd narrow that valley significantly

also a bit of nitpicky pick... to me it is odd to have green hill hexes.. grassy, fertile.. depending on ones interpretation of them....sitting one mile from permafrost mountain hexes. Am I wrong to think that odd Robin? I would think those hills should be barren as barren could be.
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by Robin » Mon Dec 12, 2016 3:01 pm

point taken.. as i have so much in my head, all these effects dictating choces of human behavior on a map.
to explain my choices; I agree that I enlarged the borders to accomodate the sociocultural effect of choosing border locations based on geological variations...aka mountains, water, river etc.
as taking sean's map into accounts, the valleys and hills sides and the water shifted the border and the village solen somewhat. these hills are steep though forested. and the only border locations logical would be the water (smaller area, mountain feet (as i did) or the mountain ridges(even larger still). as solen would fall beyond the border if i chose the water variation, i chse mountain feet instead.
as following the canon 8 mile map you could presume the canon hexes of the area are predominantly that type (50%+) but many other hex types will exists depending on the region and its use.
Sean's map gave broken lands by the meteor (what i turned into hills, alpine meadows, forested hills, to reflect the area before meteor), the 8 mile hex of that area is still mainly mountain, as is the redstone area itself, but optically it seems there is much more hills. (a significant amount, yet still less than he 50% dominant mountain hexes) what makes it into an 8 mile mountain hex. I could decide that some of his Broken land hexes are caved in mountains due the impact tremors, so I could reduce the amount of hills somewhat, but geologically this is a line of mostly no more than 1 mile, as tremor causing mountains to collapse rarely or not at all disintegrate larger areas. Just say what's your thought on all of this
Either way, the border choice would affect the region, the water border would exclude Solen from Redstone (illogical in some way), the others enlarge the Redstone, though the area is barren mostly, so some more miles really do not matter.
Thirdly, the borders as suggested in the 8 mile maps are chosen along the hex sides, and would rarely trully encompass that region. Borders always follow some basic rules. A natural dividing effect (water, clif, rift, canyon, mountain feet or top, forest, or significant geological difference like vegetation or overall equal area), or it follows political borders which mostly are still set along the same parameters, but like some RL reagions follow other parameters (like the USA straight statelines, which follow global latitudes, rarely done in earlier times--i know only one exeption the roman border in the tundras was determined by the amount of distance a unit could march in a day from a set location/settlement), however, these are very difficult to keep, and more regularly broken then maintined where above mentioned natural borders exist. a small fertile section in front of a natural border sectioned off politically would still mostly be used by the other side, unless measurements like walls, roads, forts are placed.
For example the grassy hills of the SSFP could also easily be seen as a border, but the political size of Redstone limits their eastern border to between a rock, a creek and the northern mountain.

the grassy hillls...do you mean the lightgreen ones?..those are alpine meadows, not really fertile, mostly herbs, some grass end lots of moss, not very fertile. they are high up the mountain and ecologically adapted to nearby height cold. the 1 mile difference means that the altitude differences there are very steep.
if you mean another location, please point me, because that is indeed wrong..for example the SSFP mountains south, i still have to add the meadows, remove some trees to encompass the treeline.

so your not nitpicking. ;)

though i could not get your map in a sharp resolution :( i could see you replaced the red river over the northern hills, which could not be due altitude ( it there at least as high as the west part where the river comes in on the map), secondly, following Sean's map the river clearly follows the crooked lake path, which also fits much better with the dams created by beavers. this series effect the do regularly in nature..dam after dam https://arattlinblog.files.wordpress.co ... -gorge.jpg
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:34 pm

perhaps it will be more clear on my map Robin which has the canon 8 mile hexes laid out. Thus it would be very clear that that hex, which is a mountain on all the canon maps.. has perhaps.. a small handful of mountain hexes within it. Not even close to 50% I was a bit tired last night so I didn't get posted a good detailed picture. I'll upload it with big picture in dropbox folder as soon as I fire this post off. I'll definitely be changing that particular 8 mile hex to make it more mountainous.

I am shoehorned it by my traditional geometric boundries for these dominions and it would be far too much trouble for me to go back and change them all now. Again, if I knew then what you've shown me now... oh yeah I would have done them differently but the edge of insantiy is to even think about completely revising those maps now hahah. I'd consider them more campaign guides which I use for myself, or could be for anyone interested enough to use them.

ahhh.. on my map they are fertile.. that explains a lot. Thanks Robin... I'll likely do an adjustment to mine and change the types of hills since I have several types of hills available and alpine are not one of them haha. I'm not sure what exactly are Alpine hills ... I sort of have a idea of alpine hills being... forested hills but that might be just me whose only expertise with geography is an unfailing knowledge of where the closest bar or 7-11 might be found in an urban setting :lol:

uploading last night works in higher detail to my dropbox folder now...
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by Robin » Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:06 pm

It could indeed well be that, Sean's map was flawed in that region. And since the canon and that map were used as a base it could indeed be that the amount of Hexes is flawed, however..to make sure, could you specifically point which hexes/area you mean? If it is the area NW of Solen, then I could add extra mountain hexes along the mountains, but the the river must indeed be relocated as I did, and not your idea through the rock, but alongside. Sean map's broken Land hexes could thus be remains of caved in mountain sides. I could do this 1or 2 miles at best in a geologically context.

I got the dropbox map sharp now ..with a strange grey hex line in the middle :?
Shoehorning a size 39 foot in a 36? You do agree that the 8mile hex borders are far from realistic and ordained by the hexmapping structure of 8 mile hexes? That "natural"borders are more logical/realistic?
Whatever, Even though your maps have their own imperfections, like my maps have their own (in my opinion the not so straight hex structure and thus shifting hexes), I do abosolutely like your maps, they brought me great detail to work upon, and much more.

Alpine meadows are actually not really hills, but more flat/slanted slightly overgrown mountain areas with mostly herbs, some grass, and moss, and some rare trees(small evergreen) along the upper treeline-lower snowline. Hope this typical picture reveals all to you.
http://previews.123rf.com/images/alexey ... -Photo.jpg

There is one issue with Sean's map, that is the gray "dust" area around the top label, Here I absolutely agree with you this is flawed. Ok, meteor dustcovered, but the mountains there, we both have estimated its proximate boundaries, are gone. and within the dus dead hill trees can be seen. on itself not a problem, but the regional canon vs Sean is seriously having a severe discrepancy. I could imagine the flat areas being broken, duscovered even having some hilly trees dead, but not whole miles and miles of hills dissapearing where the meteor did not even hit the ground, without creating broken land, what is not depicted.
To backtrace to "before the meteor", I could install the hilly trees, and flat where producelands where, but the canon mountains left out by sean here should be placed whatsoever.

Don't you agree?
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by Greenbrier » Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:50 am

Very much enjoying all of this new Glantri activity. Also would like to wish a very Merry Christmas and a safe and Happy New Year to everyone!

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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:15 am

and a very merry Christmas and Happy New Year to everyone as well. Been a bit quiet on the Glantri front Greenbrier I had a lot of work to do before I left and wasn't able to do much fun stuff hahah but since I'm on vacation and took the laptop, I hope to get a fair amount done. Actually, I got a lot done yesterday on the flight. What better way to spend 8 hours. Now safely in Rome and enjoying a well earned vacation. What a beautiful city, why did my wife ever leave it hahah. Oh yeah.. she did for me. :oops:

Updating the folder with the Red River Arnus update and added the newest map. The Lower Vesubian. Not much on that. I mainly wanted to stetch out the river widths so if I had to adjust earlier maps.

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9ta2j6mjk4qf ... zeona?dl=0
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:32 am

Robin wrote:point taken.. as i have so much in my head, all these effects dictating choces of human behavior on a map.
to explain my choices; I agree that I enlarged the borders to accomodate the sociocultural effect of choosing border locations based on geological variations...aka mountains, water, river etc.
as taking sean's map into accounts, the valleys and hills sides and the water shifted the border and the village solen somewhat. these hills are steep though forested. and the only border locations logical would be the water (smaller area, mountain feet (as i did) or the mountain ridges(even larger still). as solen would fall beyond the border if i chose the water variation, i chse mountain feet instead.
as following the canon 8 mile map you could presume the canon hexes of the area are predominantly that type (50%+) but many other hex types will exists depending on the region and its use.
Sean's map gave broken lands by the meteor (what i turned into hills, alpine meadows, forested hills, to reflect the area before meteor), the 8 mile hex of that area is still mainly mountain, as is the redstone area itself, but optically it seems there is much more hills. (a significant amount, yet still less than he 50% dominant mountain hexes) what makes it into an 8 mile mountain hex. I could decide that some of his Broken land hexes are caved in mountains due the impact tremors, so I could reduce the amount of hills somewhat, but geologically this is a line of mostly no more than 1 mile, as tremor causing mountains to collapse rarely or not at all disintegrate larger areas. Just say what's your thought on all of this
Either way, the border choice would affect the region, the water border would exclude Solen from Redstone (illogical in some way), the others enlarge the Redstone, though the area is barren mostly, so some more miles really do not matter.
Thirdly, the borders as suggested in the 8 mile maps are chosen along the hex sides, and would rarely trully encompass that region. Borders always follow some basic rules. A natural dividing effect (water, clif, rift, canyon, mountain feet or top, forest, or significant geological difference like vegetation or overall equal area), or it follows political borders which mostly are still set along the same parameters, but like some RL reagions follow other parameters (like the USA straight statelines, which follow global latitudes, rarely done in earlier times--i know only one exeption the roman border in the tundras was determined by the amount of distance a unit could march in a day from a set location/settlement), however, these are very difficult to keep, and more regularly broken then maintined where above mentioned natural borders exist. a small fertile section in front of a natural border sectioned off politically would still mostly be used by the other side, unless measurements like walls, roads, forts are placed.
For example the grassy hills of the SSFP could also easily be seen as a border, but the political size of Redstone limits their eastern border to between a rock, a creek and the northern mountain.

the grassy hillls...do you mean the lightgreen ones?..those are alpine meadows, not really fertile, mostly herbs, some grass end lots of moss, not very fertile. they are high up the mountain and ecologically adapted to nearby height cold. the 1 mile difference means that the altitude differences there are very steep.
if you mean another location, please point me, because that is indeed wrong..for example the SSFP mountains south, i still have to add the meadows, remove some trees to encompass the treeline.

so your not nitpicking. ;)

though i could not get your map in a sharp resolution :( i could see you replaced the red river over the northern hills, which could not be due altitude ( it there at least as high as the west part where the river comes in on the map), secondly, following Sean's map the river clearly follows the crooked lake path, which also fits much better with the dams created by beavers. this series effect the do regularly in nature..dam after dam https://arattlinblog.files.wordpress.co ... -gorge.jpg
as you can see Robin, I haven't spent much time on the southern part of this map yet. It took a LOT of work to do the northern half, which was translating the southern Averoignian, and Upper Vebusbian maps to this new one. I also wanted to take a stab at my 'improved?' efforts to model mountain ranges. I am working north to south on that so I will likely do in effect what you have been doing, taking the previously done maps and coming to good compromises. I've learned a lot from what you have been doing and from your feedback and thoughts. Thanks a bunch Robin, you are ace. Keep up your good work and let me know what you think of what I have done, and of course if you do any of the areas I've done, I'll adjust where your ideas smoke mine hahaha.

Have a very merry Christmas Robin! and thanks again for your work and interest. You sort of reinvigorated me to get back to this and hopefully finally finish it. :cool:
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by Robin » Sat Dec 24, 2016 4:35 pm

Hi Micky. Fine Yuletiden Yuletiden.




I haven't done much either. been a bit stressy/busy fighting my depression. ..Your mountains did improve indeed.

However..(sorry here I am again :oops: )..Mnt De Glace is a large, very larrge dominating mountain. Not a collection of loose mountains attached.
On itself your proposal is now NOT flawed, but not befitting the mountain itself.
If you take a look at my West Broken Lands maps where I had to draw the mountain...it is more similar to this https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/imag ... -rWIIR7kOQ which seems much more befitting a mountain called Alp.
Keep in mind that the Mnt the Glace is a mountain of about 25.100' which is still a 20.000 feet or so above the average ground level of surrounding areas.
As thus it is better to keep the whole area of the mountain region you drew containing Mnt De Glace...as one sinle mountain instead.
The Valley of Nocezi is perfect, just like the smaller valleys of Purgatorio and Vaireth. I did not cover those, but these are on the otherside of the mountaind and thus are fully acceptable valleys (keep in mind that they still rise quite steep though).
Then NW of Samaritas You drew another mountain collection. It is better to keep this as one single mountain too (this without the reeish valkey within).Not that it is wrong, it does not fit the description and the geological formation of the area.
You then have to shift your valley of Samaritas NW.I advise to put it 1 or 2 8-mile hex (your red lines) NW. Thus it has a huge mountain East and a large mountain North, forcing its actions either locally or West., with a small pass east between these two mountains.

I said that your suggestion thus far was not wrong and I mean it.You ciuld copy paste it and place it in the unfinished mountain area West of Two volcanoes/north of Redstone.
(NW of the strange grey hex line you created. There it would fit geologically like you did,and finish that area as it befits best.

I like how you did the rest.

I am still not very content with the hexbased borderlines. On a 1 mile hex scale these should more follow natural/sociocultural lines.
Castelbianco for example should encompass the village East and lose some in the west. Verazzano would thus also include Siapicchia north, and lose at least half the 8 mile hex SW of Narbolia.
Keep also in mind that 99% of all valleys are having a creek leading down to rivers etc, so more water will be available to you, especially since the mountains are thus high and snow/ice covered.

Then the Hickmana Glacier...excellent idea..however the mountains Above the "m" of Hickmana to that mountain top should be mouantainous instead of Glacier. It could be icefields, but a glacier NEVER flows in two opposing directions. Keep in mind a glacier is an icefield that glides in time between the surrounding rocks down. Take a look at the Ithel Glacier in the Red River map I made. it does ciover a vast area, but still follows the basic rule of Gravity, precipitation and flow into Lake Ithel. Back to the Hickhama glacier, remove the Snowcovered mountains there and add glacial hexes until it touches the creek you created there. That way you create a conjoining glacier Gliding from the NW and a lesser one from the S-SW.

Then due to the height of the mountains much more white/snow ice covered ones should be there. In fact almost everything above 10.000 feet would be cold. and thus much (especially between rocksides of a mountain) be snow ice covered.
The forested mountains N if Castelbianco would thus better be just mountain. The valleys you created there perfectly...follow the treeline about. this no mountains there.

In Caurenze you used dark green hexes witg a "grassy"like something within, and strange hill like hexes with the same symbol. What is this?
If these are fens/bogs of high fens there would be creaks flowing from each location down following gravity to the River.

Then About Caurenze. I totally agree to an increased amount of settlement there.As this was unknown I had not expanded that thus much. The Red River you laid down following Hex lines, that is different than I did in Red Rock /West Broken Lands map. Both our maps seem to conflict eachother there in one way or another. lets see how to come together.

I absolutely like the names you used...except one (twin sisters, which you used in redstone AND SW of Mnt de Glace...If you do like I advised enlarge Your Mnt de Glace like I did, the just remove that name. If you cut/paste it to the unfinished west mountains..also remove that name

You absolutely improved in Mountain work. :P

West before http://sta.sh/0v2kaj8icvn contains many flaws and missing things as of yet
And the 4th of this collection The area before the crater http://sta.sh/022whawg335y


A lot of advises I see in the end :? ..I hope you do not feel critizised...It is just well meant.. for a much better End result..
Happy holidays in Rome... nice source for background information, pictures, history, food, etc..enjoy :mrgreen:
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by micky » Sat Dec 24, 2016 5:13 pm

I thought I have improved haha. Thanks Robin.

I'm about to head off for the family get together and feast so I'll take a good look at the feedback tomorrow assuming my stomach doesn't explode haha. Don't worry about feedback, as I often joke. While the ego loves to be stroked with praise, what really helps is having people tell you you ain't all that and can improve LMAO! Seriously, I live for feedback, the more critical the better. :D

Uploaded my current working points on the RedArnus and LowerVesubian. Spent a fair amount of time doing translation to the new Lower Vesubian map so I can tackle the Westheath, Hightower, and hills between the Alps and Vesubian on the RedArnus Map.

Everyone have a very merry Christmas.
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Re: another week... another Glantrian project ahhaha

Post by Robin » Sat Dec 24, 2016 7:00 pm

You have...you have :ugeek: improved my pupil :ugeek:
Feast as much with your family as you desire. :mrgreen: I am a bit envious ..as I have no family :(
I'm here alone working on the map Caurenze side (even though the red river is somewhat botched)for all the settlements, eating a few pumpkin raisin pancakes. :? and filling in the lower region (Silver Sierra Fiera Province).

To you Vesubian map the same as I said above concerning Mnt De Glace.
Don't forget to look at my map. http://6inchnails.deviantart.com/art/De ... -615326279
The northern section near Glantri seems logically to have a bridge/ferry into the region and several settlements, along the river (every 3-4 miles orso, but deeper in Free Province De Glace much less, though the trail from the bridge/ferry will lead further to the Matera observatory for example viewtopic.php?f=3&t=2331&start=450#p186846. I say thus near to eachother, as not only Glantri city is overpopulated, and expanding out of its borders as per canon, (and your unfinished glantri city map...which shouldd encompass 2-3 miles diameter, thus do not draw it too small on the 1 mile map. You could also first finish that city map so better to superimpose it in a reduced scale equal to the 1 mile map to fit the region--similar like I did with the gorge of the Canolbarg Forest..see there).

One point
You intend to widen the river, but do not forget that a riverbed is wider than the river. Hence I did use Elven(darokin origin)dikes in Nyra/Erewan to limit the river. There are rarely rivers thus far inland )like Glantri)that are wider than half a mile, but their riverbed (with reed/sdandbanks, below dike farms, etc) can be much larger. When spring comes riverspan will be 2x to 3x normal, and dikes limit this. As the Dikes are only used in flat terrain, the higher areas are less prone to seasonal flooding, though the current will absolutely increase.

We keep in touch ;)
Have fun there
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