Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Weird red metals, dominions, immortals, hollow planets, invisible moons, and a lot of glorified magic zeppelins. It's all here.
The Book-House: Find Mystara products, Find Known World products.

Moderators: Seer of Yhog, Gawain_VIII, Havard, Cthulhudrew

Post Reply
User avatar
paleologos
Ogre
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:51 am

Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by paleologos » Sat May 08, 2010 2:05 am

Up until recently, I'd thought that our Keep from B2 was actually officially moved to Greyhawk in "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands". I mean, who could blame me?

Then I actually, finally, read the thing (I posted some comments in the Reviews section on Dragonsfoot). Here is what the module has to say about Greyhawk (emphasis mine):
If you're using the World of Greyhawk setting, the Keep should be located in the southwesternmost part of the Yeomanry, a lordless land of freehold farmers shielded by monster-haunted mountains from the great desert beyond.
As I read on, it became pretty clear to me that Mystara remains the default setting for the Keep. (Just look at the elaborate changes required to actually adapt the module to the World of Greyhawk). The module was published in 1999, a few years after Mystara was officially transported into the 2e sphere (with the K:KoA and G:KoM boxed sets, etc). Furthermore, it requires virtually no "adaptations" for Mystara.

Here is a list of Mystara references in the module:

1) Dubricus d'Ambreville is a first-level mage, "scion of a famous family of wizards", who came to the Keep several months ago seeking an adventuring party to join up with.

2) "Third", warrior maid of "Maruda" (sic) "hails from the distant underground city of Cynidicea" from the desert across the mountains.

(She apparently doesn't speak Common, but if Cynidicean is related to an older dialect of Thyatian, then PCs may be permitted to roll an Int check to understand her. In fact, "Maruda" might simply be a clumsy mispronounciation of "Madarua")

3) Tomas and Holga are a couple of strangers who turn up at the Keep. True, they originally hail from the distant Lendore Isles, but are en route to distant Cathos City (another island).

4) Another reference to "Maze of the Riddling Minotaur" is a tapestry of "Lady Durnsay and the Bugbears." Lady Durnsay (of Cathos) is described as a famous adventurer of four hundred years ago.

Compared to that, the only Greyhawk references are the various deities, such as Erishkegal and Nergal, which could easily have Mystaran counterparts (like Orcus).

There's also the matter of Quasqueton (which still leaves me scratching my head, a bit) but that's easily explained away as a hoax (since even the entrance to the dungeon is not as described in B1).

Heck, the only thing required is a reasonable backstory for the original founder of the Keep, Macsen Wledig. Since there was a historical figure with this name from Roman times, a Thyatian connection is not hard at all.

(In fact, I would have that Macsen, or Lord "Maximus" originally hailed from Caerdwicca on the Isle of Dawn. He could have received a landed lordship from Duke Stephan in the 980s and built the Keep within a few years. According to the module, after twenty years or so "the disaster of war overtook the land" and Macsen marched away in the defence of his distant homeland, never to be seen again. This could have been the conflict detailed in "Wrath of the Immortals" and Karameikos becomes a kingdom not long afterwards. K:KoA is set in 1012 AC and so "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands" could take place sometime after that. Both products use the 2nd edition AD&D rules.)

It always kind of bothered me that the Keep was kidnapped and transplanted in the Yeomanry, but after reading the module cover to cover, I think the author must have actually started out with Mystara as the default setting, and the suggested location for those using the World of Greyhawk was just added later.

ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
Posts: 3412
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm
Gender: male

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by ripvanwormer » Sat May 08, 2010 8:19 am

Note that the Babylonian deities used in the module have nothing to do with Greyhawk, either. Ereshkigal and Nergal are not part of the World of Greyhawk setting any more than Mystara, and Return to the Keep doesn't mention any Greyhawk deities, or anything specifically Greyhawk other than the Yeomanry.

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 19745
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by Havard » Sat May 08, 2010 1:19 pm

Great ideas paleologos! This is something I have been wanting to see done as well. I even bought the novel based on the module to see if anything can be gleamed from that one, but I havent gotten around to reading it yet.
paleologos wrote:It always kind of bothered me that the Keep was kidnapped and transplanted in the Yeomanry, but after reading the module cover to cover, I think the author must have actually started out with Mystara as the default setting, and the suggested location for those using the World of Greyhawk was just added later.
That is my impression as well. The inclusion of many of the characters you mention would have been an odd addition to a Greyhawk module. I find the references to Cathos are even more interesting after Lo Zompatore posted his theory on the placement of Vacros and Cathos.

Which elements need to be altered/removed to purge this module of non-Mystaran elements?

Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
night_druid
Radiant Dragon
Posts: 6394
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:08 pm
Gender: male

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by night_druid » Sat May 08, 2010 4:35 pm

I always viewed "Keep on the Borderlands" as a very generic template site-adventure with the potential of being placed almost anywhere, be it Mystara, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, etc. With a little modification it could even suit Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, or even Kara-Tur.
Moderator: Spelljammer, Kingdoms of Kalamar. My moderator voice is green

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 19745
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by Havard » Sat May 08, 2010 4:53 pm

night_druid wrote:I always viewed "Keep on the Borderlands" as a very generic template site-adventure with the potential of being placed almost anywhere, be it Mystara, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, etc. With a little modification it could even suit Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, or even Kara-Tur.
This is more true for the original Keep on the Borderlands module than the 'Return of.." version. As Paleologos has shown, alot of setting elements have been added, alot of which fits better with Mystara than anywhere else.

Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
paleologos
Ogre
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:51 am

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by paleologos » Sun May 09, 2010 12:05 am

ripvanwormer wrote:Note that the Babylonian deities used in the module have nothing to do with Greyhawk, either. Ereshkigal and Nergal are not part of the World of Greyhawk setting any more than Mystara, and Return to the Keep doesn't mention any Greyhawk deities, or anything specifically Greyhawk other than the Yeomanry.
Really? I totally assumed they were part of the "core pantheon" or something. I found both to be very interesting, actually. I guess this might make them new "Mystaran" deities, perhaps?

Along those lines, is there a M-Babylon? I always used to think of the Alphatians as being somewhat Babylonian-inspired (based on the watermark from DotE). Maybe Ereshkigal and Nergal are somehow linked with Alphatia (covert "alien" gods) in a Battlestar Galactica kind of way?

There's mention of Wee Jas, though, but again - she could easily have a Mystaran presence (it's all 2e, right?)
Havard wrote:
night_druid wrote:I always viewed "Keep on the Borderlands" as a very generic template site-adventure with the potential of being placed almost anywhere, be it Mystara, Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms, etc. With a little modification it could even suit Spelljammer, Ravenloft, Dragonlance, or even Kara-Tur.
This is more true for the original Keep on the Borderlands module than the 'Return of.." version. As Paleologos has shown, alot of setting elements have been added, alot of which fits better with Mystara than anywhere else.
Agreed. The original is the least site-specific of any published adventure, (although was formally situated in Karameikos in Frank's edition of the Expert rulebook).

The true default setting for "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands" is obviously Mystara (and therefore in eastern or northeastern Karameikos). Nothing needs to be changed, only a very few details could possibly be fleshed out. The Yeomanry location is a mere suggestion if using WoG and is not referred to anywhere else in 64 pages of text.

User avatar
night_druid
Radiant Dragon
Posts: 6394
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 9:08 pm
Gender: male

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by night_druid » Sun May 09, 2010 12:38 am

The placement in Greyhawk always was odd; none of the details fit. :lol:
Moderator: Spelljammer, Kingdoms of Kalamar. My moderator voice is green

User avatar
Planefarer
Stone Giant
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:01 am
Gender: prefer not to say

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by Planefarer » Sun May 09, 2010 2:24 am

paleologos wrote:I totally assumed they were part of the "core pantheon" or something. I found both to be very interesting, actually. I guess this might make them new "Mystaran" deities, perhaps?

Along those lines, is there a M-Babylon? I always used to think of the Alphatians as being somewhat Babylonian-inspired (based on the watermark from DotE). Maybe Ereshkigal and Nergal are somehow linked with Alphatia (covert "alien" gods) in a Battlestar Galactica kind of way?
To each his own, but IMHO Mystara is already so overcrowded by Immortals that there really is no need for more. It seems far more convenient to make these new names for Immortals that are already established under other names. Assuming it fits their description, that is.
night_druid wrote:The placement in Greyhawk always was odd; none of the details fit. :lol:
Well, it was the default setting at the time. They just forgot to change the names. It's odd, though, that Dubricus d'Ambreville appears. for example. The d'Ambreville is so specifically Mystaran (and LaTerran) that it all but reveals the setting, and IIRC the d'Ambreville name was used neither in the original B2 or in its B1-9 incarnation. So, what? They put it in another setting and still put the d'Ambreville name in there?!? That's just weird!
"When a wizard is tired of looking for broken glass in his dinner, he is tired of life."

User avatar
RobJN
Dire Flumph
Posts: 4142
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 10:33 pm
Gender: male
Location: Texas, USA
Contact:

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by RobJN » Sun May 09, 2010 2:42 am

My gut-feeling was that the "Return to..." adventure was written for Mystara, but got Greyhawk-ed when the "Kingdom of.."* line was shelved.


*which reminds me: Why wasn't TSR 2511 called "Glantri: Principality of Magic"...?
Rob
Thorn's Chronicle: The Thread Index|Thorn's Chronicle Blog
My articles at the Vaults of Pandius; My W.O.I.N. adventure in ENWorld's EONS Patreon #56.
Follow Thorn's Chronicle on Facebook |twitter

User avatar
Planefarer
Stone Giant
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:01 am
Gender: prefer not to say

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by Planefarer » Sun May 09, 2010 3:04 am

RobJN wrote:*which reminds me: Why wasn't TSR 2511 called "Glantri: Principality of Magic"...?
It's not one prinicipality. Each prince or princess has his or her own. But they're still one nation, and using the plural (like the gaz did) would probably not have made the point that this was still one nation come across clearly enough. So since K:KoM had already used "Kingdom", I figure they just went with that, since it implied the single nation and used the same term as the previous "gazetteer" boxed set. Just conjecture on my part, though.
"When a wizard is tired of looking for broken glass in his dinner, he is tired of life."

ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
Posts: 3412
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm
Gender: male

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by ripvanwormer » Sun May 09, 2010 3:34 am

paleologos wrote:There's mention of Wee Jas, though
My mistake, then. Other than Wee Jas, there are no Greyhawk deities mentioned. My guess is that Ratecliff used Babylonian gods because they seemed appropriately ancient and sinister, and when Keep on the Borderlands was originally published, neither Greyhawk nor Mystara (which didn't yet exist) had published pantheons (apart from the saints mentioned in B1), and most gamers probably used historical deities. I suspect the specifically Mystaran references in Return to the Keep of the Borderlands were more along the lines of "Easter eggs" than a serious attempt at creating Mystara canon, though the adventure is definitely more Mystaran than anything else, and it's a Mystara adventure by virtue of its connection to B2 if nothing else. The logic of putting it in Greyhawk would be that Gary Gygax designed the original, and Greyhawk was his campaign world. One could say that Mystara "stole" it from Greyhawk, but the original was generic, and its ties to Mystara are definitely the strongest.

As for an m-Babylon, there's Nimmur, though that's very far away and its patrons aren't exactly the historical Babylonian pantheon.

I'd probably use Orcus, Demogorgan, and Leptar as patrons of the Cult of Evil Chaos, as in this article, along with possibly Arik.

User avatar
paleologos
Ogre
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:51 am

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by paleologos » Sun May 09, 2010 5:28 am

ripvanwormer wrote:My guess is that Ratecliff used Babylonian gods because they seemed appropriately ancient and sinister, and when Keep on the Borderlands was originally published, neither Greyhawk nor Mystara (which didn't yet exist) had published pantheons (apart from the saints mentioned in B1), and most gamers probably used historical deities.
I have to confess that I love the Mesopotamian flavour for the Shrine of Evil Chaos - brings to mind The Exorcist and stuff. I also like having some new deities for the baddies in B2 since it keeps connections with other things Mystaran at arm's length (and that's refreshing). I'm all for claiming Ereshkigal and Nergal as Mystaran immortals.

On another note, there are some Egyptian references here and there, which would be a great way to nuance Nithia into the picture.
ripvanwormer wrote:I suspect the specifically Mystaran references in Return to the Keep of the Borderlands were more along the lines of "Easter eggs" than a serious attempt at creating Mystara canon, though the adventure is definitely more Mystaran than anything else, and it's a Mystara adventure by virtue of its connection to B2 if nothing else.
I have to admit I think you're right. The author likely couldn't resist sprinkling all kinds of homage through his work. I'll bet there are quite a few that go right over my head.

That said, the Mystaran ones are pretty key. Cynidicea and Cathos City anchor the Keep geographically in Mystara, (the foreign duo from the Lendore Isles were on the run, and their presence on Mystara might be explained by fleeing through a gate or whatnot).

In the end, I'm just happily surprised that the module fits so neatly into that comfortable old corner in Karameikos!

User avatar
paleologos
Ogre
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:51 am

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by paleologos » Sun May 09, 2010 8:45 pm

Havard wrote:Which elements need to be altered/removed to purge this module of non-Mystaran elements?
I just completed an index of all the people and places mentioned in both modules (see companion thread).

The Greyhawk references are limited to the following:
1) the chapel is dedicated to St. Cuthbert
2) reference is made to Kurtulmak
3) reference is made to Wee Jas

There are new, Egyptian and Babylonian deities described:
1) the snake-god Hispis "Swallower of Small Evils"
2) Apep the Devourer "He Who Shall Devour the World"
3) Ereshkigal
4) Nergal, her consort

IMHO the Greyhawk references are relatively minor and not really worth changing. The exception might be the chapel, dedicated to St. Cuthbert. However, since I'm envisioning Lord Macsen/Maximus as originally hailing from in or near Caerdwicca on the Isle of Dawn, it might even make sense to keep the reference to St. Cuthbert (since he is a RW Scottish saint and his worship might have been ported over from Laterre by Klantyran immigrants. He might even serve as an appropriate patron saint for the Followers of the Claymore.) Finally, leaving him in as a tribute to Gygax isn't necessarily a bad thing.

The Egyptian gods can either be changed, or alternately used as the PC's first exposure to Nithia.

The Babylonian gods can also be changed, but their cult is so nicely detailed that I personally feel they are nice additions to the ranks of the Immortals. My take on Alphatia is that it has a Babylonian flavour and so I like the idea of making them alien (Alphatian) immortals...

User avatar
RobJN
Dire Flumph
Posts: 4142
Joined: Sun May 25, 2008 10:33 pm
Gender: male
Location: Texas, USA
Contact:

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by RobJN » Sun May 09, 2010 9:03 pm

Planefarer wrote:
RobJN wrote:*which reminds me: Why wasn't TSR 2511 called "Glantri: Principality of Magic"...?
It's not one prinicipality. Each prince or princess has his or her own. But they're still one nation, and using the plural (like the gaz did) would probably not have made the point that this was still one nation come across clearly enough. So since K:KoM had already used "Kingdom", I figure they just went with that, since it implied the single nation and used the same term as the previous "gazetteer" boxed set. Just conjecture on my part, though.
Just nit-pickin' :evil:
Rob
Thorn's Chronicle: The Thread Index|Thorn's Chronicle Blog
My articles at the Vaults of Pandius; My W.O.I.N. adventure in ENWorld's EONS Patreon #56.
Follow Thorn's Chronicle on Facebook |twitter

User avatar
Planefarer
Stone Giant
Posts: 620
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 12:01 am
Gender: prefer not to say

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by Planefarer » Sun May 09, 2010 10:35 pm

paleologos wrote: The Greyhawk references are limited to the following:
...
2) reference is made to Kurtulmak
Kurtulmak is also given as a alternate name for The Shining One in WotI (book I, p. 41).
"When a wizard is tired of looking for broken glass in his dinner, he is tired of life."

User avatar
Gawain_VIII
Storm Giant
Posts: 1579
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:36 pm
Gender: male
Location: Oklahoma, USA
Contact:

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by Gawain_VIII » Mon May 10, 2010 1:05 am

The Greyhawk references are limited to the following:
1) the chapel is dedicated to St. Cuthbert
On one hand I agree that retaining the name is appropriate, if we assume the suggestion of a Caerdwica/Laterre connection, otherwise this could easily be replaced with any number of Matter-sphere Immortals.
2) reference is made to Kurtulmak
Comment superfolus
3) reference is made to Wee Jas
She's hard to place given her dual-portfolio of both death and magic. I think Nyx is probably closest, but thats a lil bit of a stretch.
There are new, Egyptian and Babylonian deities described:
1) the snake-god Hispis "Swallower of Small Evils"
Loki (more fitting) or Atzanteotl (snake motif) Wikipedia points to Hispis as being the name of the smaller of two "twin cities" in Egypt, the larger twin being Aphroditopolis.
2) Apep the Devourer "He Who Shall Devour the World"
Thanatos or Atzanteotl (both equally fitting) (From Wikipedia)
I kind of like these two being identified with Loki and Atzanteotl respectively, but Thanatos does get too little play.
3) Ereshkigal
4) Nergal, her consort
Do we know anything about these two from the module other than names? Wikipedia offers us this:
Ereshkigal: Underworld Goddess
Nergal: (violent/destructive) Sun God
"Time does not heal all things--only swift and decisive action does." --Roger LaVern Girtman, II, 17 April 2010
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Classic Campaigns, my Mystara fansite
Moderator of The Piazza's Mystara and M3e Project forums.

User avatar
paleologos
Ogre
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:51 am

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by paleologos » Mon May 10, 2010 2:19 am

Planefarer wrote:Kurtulmak is also given as a alternate name for The Shining One in WotI (book I, p. 41).
I had totally forgotten about that - remove Kurtulmak from Greyhawk list and chalk up another Mystara reference!

Gawain_VIII wrote:
3) reference is made to Wee Jas
She's hard to place given her dual-portfolio of both death and magic. I think Nyx is probably closest, but thats a lil bit of a stretch.
Nyx would probably work - it's a very minor reference in the module.

Gawain_VIII wrote:
There are new, Egyptian and Babylonian deities described:
1) the snake-god Hispis "Swallower of Small Evils"
Loki (more fitting) or Atzanteotl (snake motif) Wikipedia points to Hispis as being the name of the smaller of two "twin cities" in Egypt, the larger twin being Aphroditopolis.
Hispis is actually a little-known Lawful Good deity, in the module.

Gawain_VIII wrote:
2) Apep the Devourer "He Who Shall Devour the World"
Thanatos or Atzanteotl (both equally fitting)
I kind of like these two being identified with Loki and Atzanteotl respectively, but Thanatos does get too little play.
A big, bad entropic immortal like Thanatos would do the trick.

Gawain_VIII wrote:
3) Ereshkigal
4) Nergal, her consort
Do we know anything about these two from the module other than names?
There is a ton about these two in the module (they're the main bad guys).

I was flipping through my old copy of Deities and Demigods (1e AD&D) this afternoon and found that Nergal is featured prominently in the section on Babylonian mythos.

Actually, Nergal makes me think of an old Conan story "The Hand of Nergal" involving a really cool relic/artifact (here's a short description, courtesy of wikipedia):

The Hand of Nergal, is an object of evil power in the form of an ivory sceptre with a clawed demon hand at one end grasping a crystal and inscribed with strange glyphs and runes. It fell to the earth from the stars in the ancient past and as it changed hands through the ages it granted whoever claimed it the promise of ultimate power as well as the curse of eventual destruction. The only way to counter the Hand's malevolent force is with the talisman known as the Heart of Tammuz, a golden amber stone shaped like a heart and warm to the touch.

ripvanwormer
Black Dragon
Posts: 3412
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2009 7:14 pm
Gender: male

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by ripvanwormer » Mon May 10, 2010 2:55 am

There's been some suggestion on basing Taymora on ancient Mesopotamian culture, which would fit if you put the Keep in Karameikos or thereabouts.

St. Cuthbert is mentioned in B1, so he's already tenuously Mystaran.

User avatar
paleologos
Ogre
Posts: 219
Joined: Thu Dec 31, 2009 4:51 am

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by paleologos » Mon May 10, 2010 3:12 am

ripvanwormer wrote:St. Cuthbert is mentioned in B1, so he's already tenuously Mystaran.
You're absolutely right - Tassit, Servant of St. Cuthbert.

So, we're down to a single, tenuous link to WoG. Namely the mention of Wee Jas.

Looks like Kendall Keep has finally landed.

User avatar
AuldDragon
White Dragon
Posts: 2213
Joined: Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:28 am
Gender: male
Location: Silver Spring, MD
Contact:

Re: Reclaiming "Return to the Keep on the Borderlands"

Post by AuldDragon » Mon May 10, 2010 4:53 am

Gawain_VIII wrote:
3) Ereshkigal
4) Nergal, her consort
Do we know anything about these two from the module other than names? Wikipedia offers us this:
Ereshkigal: Underworld Goddess
Nergal: (violent/destructive) Sun God
I would not put too much into the sun connection for Nergal. It hasn't appeared much in my research of Mesopotamian religion. When it does come up, it seems part of his destructive/natural disaster aspect; however, that's pretty minor. If you want to equate him with existing Mystaran Immortals, I'd look for one related to natural disasters, destruction from war, plagues, famine, death related to those things, etc.

As for Ereshkigal, Hel is an existing immortal IIRC. if she matches up well with Norse mythology, she might be a good choice to associate Ereshkigal with.

Jeff
Let's Play Old Games with AuldDragon (Youtube) | My 2nd Edition Blog
Monster Mythology Update Project | Spelljammer Livestream Campaign
"That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not."

Post Reply

Return to “Mystara”