Platea: a challenge to the community

Weird red metals, dominions, immortals, hollow planets, invisible moons, and a lot of glorified magic zeppelins. It's all here.
The Book-House: Find Mystara products, Find Known World products.

Moderators: Seer of Yhog, Gawain_VIII, Havard, Cthulhudrew

Post Reply
LoZompatore
Stone Giant
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 8:40 am
Gender: male
Location: Fano, Italy

Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by LoZompatore » Mon Oct 25, 2010 1:21 am

I've just noticed here on the boards some rather depressing thoughts about how Mystara is dead and how we old fans would soon follow its fate (as Mystaraphiles, not as human beings, of course - I hope :mrgreen: ), mostly because we've lost the will to collectively work on something new to the setting.

Now, I would like to test whether these beliefs are justified or not.

Here is a challenge for the whole Message Board: Describe the suggested virgin region of the setting (see below) by working as a team.


First of all, a few FAQs:

- Will the new produced material be considered as canon? No, I don't think such a thing is possible.
- Will the new produced material be considered as estabilished fanon? I dont' know (and, honestly, I don't care): this is just an exercise to prove that our community is still able to produce some quality material by working together.
- What does "working together" exactly mean? Basically, try to expand what the other authors wrote before you or, at least, try not to contradict their contributions with yours. Of course, you may always team with some other author, and plan together the course of your contributions, if you like. ;)
- What is exactly "a contribution"? Anything you like: from a map to a NPC entry, from a country description to a new set of spells. This is a truly virgin area to describe, so anything is welcome.
- What if I don't like previous contributions/new contributions do not fit with what I had already in mind for the setting? Be creative: are you really really sure that there is not any chance to peacefully merge both views? The aim of this project is to work together (life is too short to start flame wars about topics like these): moreover you may always publish you own alternate version of the setting in a later time, if you like.
- Is there any deadline? No, this project will always be opened to new contributions. If, at present time, there is an adverse mood in the community about embarking on a task like this, maybe things will change in the future.
- Will there be any summary of the setting/any update to the maps? I hope so. Depending on the amount of contributions, and spare time on my side, I volunteer to do this work when necessary ;)
- Which rule system (BECMI, 2E, 3E, 3.5E, etc.) should I follow when posting my contributions? The rule system you like most: do not worry about inconsistencies among different D&D editions. There will always be time to make a full rules conversion in the future, if needed ;)


Said so, let's talk about the suggested setting.

There are several underdeveloped areas on Mystara, many of them were more or less covered by fan authors in the last decade. I managed to find a nearly true virgin region, which is neither covered by canon (except for the two very general maps you see below) nor by fans (to the best of my knowledge, see below ***). The area I suggest to develop is here:


Image
A full resolution map can be downloaded here

Just to give this region a name to start with, I'd call it "Platea", which is the latin word for "flatland" but it also has the secondary meaning of "piazza" (does it remind something to you? :D). Please note this name is provisional, it could be changed anytime if you do not like it. ;)
In my opinion the area of Platea is pretty promising, as it is located at the same latitudes of the Known World (on the opposite emisphere), so both maps can be compared without worrying about cartographic distortions. Moreover, Platea shows a pretty varied terrain in a limited area. In fact, from west to east we have: mountains, forests, plains (with a couple of big rivers flowing in them), arid terrains and then deserts.

*** About fan coverage of Platea and surroundings: actually there is a map on the Vaults showing an unnamed settlement/country in the eastern area of Platea - you can find the original picture here but no description were given in the related entry (which is here).
A couple of territories close to the borders of Platea were described by fans - mostly by Geoff Gander. I added the names of these areas to the map above just in case someone would like to make reference to them in its contribution (descriptions about these territories can be found here and here)


Going a step further, here is an hexed map of the region (72 miles/hex scale, I hope it is good enough for large-scale descriptions). I made it by merging all the available info from HW global map of Mystara and Mentzer's global map. I also made a copy with numbered hexes, I hope it could help to better define locations:

Image
A full resolution map can bde downloaded here


The map is rather sketchy: this is intentional, to give more freedom to future developments. As you see from the picture above, Platea is as large as about half of Known World mainland, so there is enough room for about half a dozen of medium-sized countries, or a maybe single medium size empire, or a lot of petty fiefdoms / city-states.

Let's see what the community is able to produce from these sketches (and let's keep our fingers crossed! :D)
Last edited by LoZompatore on Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Seer of Yhog
Outer Being
Posts: 3232
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 1:29 am
Gender: male
Location: Ottawa, Canada

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Seer of Yhog » Mon Oct 25, 2010 2:42 am

This is a great idea for a project!

Off the top of my head, I would think the "civilised" region of Platea would naturally be sandwiched between the mountains and the river - the eastern desert (whatever you wish to call it - you don't have to use the name on my map) should be filled with all manner of nasty critters to keep any single nation from becoming a huge empire. Otherwise, such a realm would logically expand to the Adakkian Sound, build a navy, and possibly become known to the larger world. Possibly.

I could see 2-3 kingdoms/realms nestled in the mountains or forested hills, extracting minerals and/or timber for export to the nations of the plains, which would be the local breadbasket. There would probably be some river trade, so there should be a few sizable towns on the river, and definitely a city in the hex where the waters meet. This city could be a city-state (surviving off of trade, and possibly renting its soldiers out as mercenaries whenever a war bubbles up), or it would be the capital of one of the more powerful states.

You're probably looking at 4-5 kingdoms in the plains area, for a total of 6-8 nations. You can reduce this by having one of the states be a petty empire, which would probably take up 1/4 to 1/3 of the territory.

So who are these people? I would think the human stock would likely be at least of partial Varellyan descent (if you use my timeline), but at the very least some Neathar stock. There may be a branch of elves living on the margins - descendants of some who decided to abandon the migration. I think this would be an ideal place to throw in some old stock halflings - descendants of those who never left the homeland. These folk would speak a form of Lalor, and have their own unique culture - some of Andrew's ideas from the short story he and I worked on years ago might come in handy here. I'd invite him to chime in and share what he remembers.
Moderator for Mystara. My moderator voice is heliotrope.

My Blog is here!

User avatar
Seethyr
Couatl
Posts: 1456
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:07 am
Gender: male
Location: The City of Gold

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Seethyr » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:04 am

I would love to contribute to something like this, but unfortunately my knowledge of Mystara is limited. Though I greatly enjoy reading 1e and 2e products also, I am not up to the standard in understanding the rules of those editions (because its been so long since I played in either).

Do you accept 3rd edition materials? I'm on a monster building kick atm, and would love to send one in if you wish.
Follow the Maztica (Aztez/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign

yellowdingo
Fire Giant
Posts: 1199
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:26 am
Gender: male

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by yellowdingo » Mon Oct 25, 2010 5:51 am

Frankly i would rather THorfin do the final Colour 8-mile Hex maps but I can generate a few in B&W with some effort. So a Gazetteer with Map and Art...interesting Prospect.

Technological Influences in the Region
Ilsundal's Elves migrating north have not gotton rid of all their Blackmoorean technology. They abandon it progressivly. That leaves us with a few Artefacts of a Technological Nature in our area. So lets say a Steamtrain designed to cross the desert without Rail-tracks is abandoned just north of the Desert in the South East of our Region (2800BC). This offers the opportuinity for Communities to arise based on some aspect of the Abandoned Tech.

1. Architectual influences on Buildings of some who settle in the region are long narrow dwellings (like a train carriage). Building Windows and Skylights are Circular Portholes.
2. The 'Wheel is Discovered' Some Neathar develop Carts as early as 2000BC allowing movement of larger volumes of goods during migrations.
3. Timber, Metal, and glass working technologies are quickly developed.
4. Writing - Early Vulcanian Elven letters are adapted as post Neathar Pictograms in a form of writing (although it is still unrelated to elven).

We have sacrified enough
The Dyr Clan, decide that the Dyl's (Ilsundyl's clan) tree hugging anti-technology philosophies go too far. They abandon the others and settle in to establish a Farming Community. They are later over-run by the Neathar Migration and forced out of the region. Some are taken hostage as Slaves to Neathar Warriors causing part elven bloodlines and the rise of a cast system where those of 'Dyr Lineage' must live outside the city gates.

User avatar
Cthulhudrew
Green Dragon
Posts: 4396
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 2:13 pm
Gender: male
Location: Long Beach, CA

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Cthulhudrew » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:39 am

Seer of Yhog wrote:I think this would be an ideal place to throw in some old stock halflings - descendants of those who never left the homeland. These folk would speak a form of Lalor, and have their own unique culture - some of Andrew's ideas from the short story he and I worked on years ago might come in handy here. I'd invite him to chime in and share what he remembers.
You probably remember about as much as I do. As I recall, I was thinking of having those halflings be black/dark-skinned halflings, and being more of a tribal sort of culture than the mainland halflings of the Shires. Their history was going to be tied to the Carnifex and/or Serpentines; they were the possessors of lore handed down from generations of fighting against such creatures, and they were sort of the guardians against their reincursion into Mystara. Though they were more tribal, they weren't necessarily more primitive; in fact, their shamanic/mystical heritage would be much greater than the mainland halflings.

I swear I had a lot more thought out than that, but I can't remember much of it at the moment, and I never did really write it down, I don't think. Hopefully some of it will get jogged out of the depths of memory here.
Moderator of the Mystara and Greyhawk forums. My moderator voice is gray-green.
Image

yellowdingo
Fire Giant
Posts: 1199
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:26 am
Gender: male

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by yellowdingo » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:03 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:
Seer of Yhog wrote:I think this would be an ideal place to throw in some old stock halflings - descendants of those who never left the homeland. These folk would speak a form of Lalor, and have their own unique culture - some of Andrew's ideas from the short story he and I worked on years ago might come in handy here. I'd invite him to chime in and share what he remembers.
You probably remember about as much as I do. As I recall, I was thinking of having those halflings be black/dark-skinned halflings, and being more of a tribal sort of culture than the mainland halflings of the Shires. Their history was going to be tied to the Carnifex and/or Serpentines; they were the possessors of lore handed down from generations of fighting against such creatures, and they were sort of the guardians against their reincursion into Mystara. Though they were more tribal, they weren't necessarily more primitive; in fact, their shamanic/mystical heritage would be much greater than the mainland halflings.

I swear I had a lot more thought out than that, but I can't remember much of it at the moment, and I never did really write it down, I don't think. Hopefully some of it will get jogged out of the depths of memory here.

So what sort of Halfling are we talking here? The sort who throw the Kids in Pits to fight for Survival untill their age of Assention? Or Goat hearders?

User avatar
Gecko
Storm Giant
Posts: 1635
Joined: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:51 am
Gender: male
Location: Marooned in California

Hills of 'Platea'

Post by Gecko » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:07 am

hmm... That second map doesn't have any hills, so that go me thinking about the hills of the area, I see perhaps 3 possibilites:

A) There's a pronounced fault scarp resulting the mountains rising rather abruptly from the lowlands (any one familiar with the east side of the sierra nevada's in Owen's valley?) This could result in fairly regular earthquakes in the area.

B) ALL of those forests should actually be forested hills, the vegetation growing there due to an increase in moisture generated by orographic weather patterns. This could make the lowlands near the river rather arid with only the resulting surface water providing water for the vegetation holding the desert back.

C) Some sort of older tectonic setting where the hills are limited to a smallish strip of just the west parts of the forest (or north and west). this might even involve some sort of massive "benches" and/or scarps.

(or of course there's always D) Reason? It's magic/immortal created/etc. :lol: )

yellowdingo
Fire Giant
Posts: 1199
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:26 am
Gender: male

Re: Hills of 'Platea'

Post by yellowdingo » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:18 am

Gecko wrote:hmm... That second map doesn't have any hills, so that go me thinking about the hills of the area, I see perhaps 3 possibilites:

A) There's a pronounced fault scarp resulting the mountains rising rather abruptly from the lowlands (any one familiar with the east side of the sierra nevada's in Owen's valley?) This could result in fairly regular earthquakes in the area.

B) ALL of those forests should actually be forested hills, the vegetation growing there due to an increase in moisture generated by orographic weather patterns. This could make the lowlands near the river rather arid with only the resulting surface water providing water for the vegetation holding the desert back.

C) Some sort of older tectonic setting where the hills are limited to a smallish strip of just the west parts of the forest (or north and west). this might even involve some sort of massive "benches" and/or scarps.

(or of course there's always D) Reason? It's magic/immortal created/etc. :lol: )
Trees so old that they are 20 feet diameter and a hundred feet high? Like Canada and Australia during early settlement of the ancient forests.

User avatar
Ashtagon
Hierarch
Posts: 3749
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 5:45 pm
Gender: female
Location: Hillvale, Isle of Dawn
Contact:

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Ashtagon » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:22 am

The most obvious thing that strikes me is that this area is the original source of the halfling race; the arrows start here. This suggests to me that there should be multiple halfling kingdoms. They should probably be the dominant race.
Emma Rome, otherwise known as Ashtagon
Image
Overall site admin for The Piazza. My moderator colour is pink!

User avatar
Cthulhudrew
Green Dragon
Posts: 4396
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 2:13 pm
Gender: male
Location: Long Beach, CA

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Cthulhudrew » Mon Oct 25, 2010 8:22 am

yellowdingo wrote:So what sort of Halfling are we talking here? The sort who throw the Kids in Pits to fight for Survival untill their age of Assention? Or Goat hearders?
Ummm... neither?

I was envisioning the halflings as being nomadic groups that lived on and around the desert region there. Looking at the maps LoZompatore provided, there's a really gigantic area to play with, so like Ash suggests, there are probably multiple sorts of groups in the region. The desert region in those maps alone covers most of the area of the eastern Known World (Karameikos, plus Thyatis, Ylaruam, the Northern Reaches, and a hunk of Darokin and Rockhome.)

If they were to be pastoralists, I'd suppose they could domesticate small antelopes or camels or something, rather than goats.
Moderator of the Mystara and Greyhawk forums. My moderator voice is gray-green.
Image

yellowdingo
Fire Giant
Posts: 1199
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:26 am
Gender: male

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by yellowdingo » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:19 pm

Ashtagon wrote:The most obvious thing that strikes me is that this area is the original source of the halfling race; the arrows start here. This suggests to me that there should be multiple halfling kingdoms. They should probably be the dominant race.
But in what way? The halflings seem to leave the region about the same time as Ilsundyl's Elves migrate through. Almost as if Ilsundyl shows up and tells them the old world is comming to an end and they should embrace a new natural way of life before it is too late...all the while waving swords and spears. The Zealots attacking anything even slightly technological.

"Yours is the false faith! Embrace Nature!"

yellowdingo
Fire Giant
Posts: 1199
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:26 am
Gender: male

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by yellowdingo » Mon Oct 25, 2010 12:23 pm

Cthulhudrew wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:So what sort of Halfling are we talking here? The sort who throw the Kids in Pits to fight for Survival untill their age of Assention? Or Goat hearders?
Ummm... neither?

I was envisioning the halflings as being nomadic groups that lived on and around the desert region there. Looking at the maps LoZompatore provided, there's a really gigantic area to play with, so like Ash suggests, there are probably multiple sorts of groups in the region. The desert region in those maps alone covers most of the area of the eastern Known World (Karameikos, plus Thyatis, Ylaruam, the Northern Reaches, and a hunk of Darokin and Rockhome.)

If they were to be pastoralists, I'd suppose they could domesticate small antelopes or camels or something, rather than goats.
Gargantuan Wooly Rhinos popped into my head. On the back of them - a Halfling clan's equipment and supplies, perhaps even a family hut.

Dang it...I had a map outlined when I realized the scale was out...got to go back and do it at 8 mile hex.

User avatar
Hugin
Messenger of Odin
Posts: 4154
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 9:40 pm
Gender: male
Location: Fergus, Ontario

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Hugin » Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:42 pm

Having halflings as the main race here seems appropriate. I would suggest that we find some core common-grounds between these halflings and those of the Five Shires. In other words, what did halfling culture look like when these two groups first diverged. From there we can envision the unique developments of Brunian halflings and Davanian halflings. What influences were in effect to cause these two groups to evolve as they did?

Another thing I'd like to suggest is the Davanian theme of (giant-)mammals. (Not sure exactly why I have this impression but it must have come from somewhere; comments?). If we have this theme, it could be used in an overall feeling of "little folks in a big world" to the setting. This could be combined with dingo's massive tree idea.

For what it's worth, I'd prefer to see any humans as an Oltec-Neathar mix (or, have both of these separate and frequently skirmishing against each other, and perhaps with the halflings as well). Finally, I'd like to see a tribal structure or city-state type setup for this region, and for the halflings we could use this as the basis for clans and shires. After all, not everybody has to be in larger 'nations'.

User avatar
Ashtagon
Hierarch
Posts: 3749
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 5:45 pm
Gender: female
Location: Hillvale, Isle of Dawn
Contact:

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Ashtagon » Mon Oct 25, 2010 6:25 pm

Regarding other races, I'd say dwarves should be essentially nn-existent in this area. This is probably a good place for tortles, rakasta, and lupins to be plentiful too, although I'm a bit hazy on their migration patterns.
Emma Rome, otherwise known as Ashtagon
Image
Overall site admin for The Piazza. My moderator colour is pink!

LoZompatore
Stone Giant
Posts: 603
Joined: Fri May 23, 2008 8:40 am
Gender: male
Location: Fano, Italy

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by LoZompatore » Mon Oct 25, 2010 7:42 pm

WOW, guys! Way better than any expectation!! :D :shock:
I suppose this community is still pretty alive and kicking, isn't it? :cool:

I'll add my own contributions in a later time. Now I just want to congratulate with all of you who embraced this project so wholeheartedly. Thanks a lot! :D

A little technical note answering to Seethyr's post:
Do you accept 3rd edition materials? I'm on a monster building kick atm, and would love to send one in if you wish.
Please, do! Do not feel hindered by rule systems in any way. I just edited the FAQs section in my first post dealing about this rule compatibility issue. Feel free to post your ideas following the edition you feel most comfortable with! ;)

agathokles
Red Dragon
Posts: 7703
Joined: Sat May 24, 2008 6:42 pm
Gender: male
Location: Milan, Italy
Contact:

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by agathokles » Mon Oct 25, 2010 9:49 pm

Well, considering I'm (part of) the source of the depressing thoughts, I suppose I'd better contribute.

I agree with a primarily Halfling population. However, I think the cause of the migration should be taken into account -- whatever the Hin fled from, is it still there? Or did the threat end at some point?
In the former case, the thread would have shaped the lifestyle, mindset and possibly other characteristics of the local Halflings, and may as well be a major enemy or problem in the setting. In the latter case, how did it come to its end? There should be heroes involved, who would have taken a place in the local culture.

GP

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 20353
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Havard » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:18 pm

Cool thread!
agathokles wrote:Well, considering I'm (part of) the source of the depressing thoughts, I suppose I'd better contribute.

I agree with a primarily Halfling population. However, I think the cause of the migration should be taken into account -- whatever the Hin fled from, is it still there? Or did the threat end at some point?
In the former case, the thread would have shaped the lifestyle, mindset and possibly other characteristics of the local Halflings, and may as well be a major enemy or problem in the setting. In the latter case, how did it come to its end? There should be heroes involved, who would have taken a place in the local culture.

GP

I was wondering if this region could have a connection to the Vulture Peninsula as a sort of analogy to the movie Dark Crystal, perhaps with some Nagpa with Umber Hulk slaves terrorizing the Halflings?

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
Seethyr
Couatl
Posts: 1456
Joined: Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:07 am
Gender: male
Location: The City of Gold

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Seethyr » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:44 pm

agathokles wrote: I agree with a primarily Halfling population. However, I think the cause of the migration should be taken into account -- whatever the Hin fled from, is it still there? Or did the threat end at some point?
In the former case, the thread would have shaped the lifestyle, mindset and possibly other characteristics of the local Halflings, and may as well be a major enemy or problem in the setting. In the latter case, how did it come to its end? There should be heroes involved, who would have taken a place in the local culture.
GP
In the 3rd edition book, Monsters of Faerun, a creature known as the Tall Mouther was described. They are defined as being the "natural enemies" of the halflings of Faerun. Perhaps a huge population of these creatures were decimating the halfling populations and they had to flee?

If you've seen a few of my recent posts, I've been on a kick using the article "Thunder and Fire" from Dragon Magazine Issue 289 to stat up kaiju based on other creatures. Perhaps a gigantic version of the Tall Mouther woke from thousands of years of hibernation and was actually the source of an exodus? It's only gone now because it fell back into hibernation...

I know the idea is over the top but just thought I'd throw it out there. If you go for it, I could stat up the creature in my next post.
Follow the Maztica (Aztez/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign

User avatar
Havard
Dragon Turtle
Posts: 20353
Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 7:32 pm
Gender: male
Location: Norway
Contact:

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Havard » Mon Oct 25, 2010 10:48 pm

Cthulhudrew wrote:You probably remember about as much as I do. As I recall, I was thinking of having those halflings be black/dark-skinned halflings, and being more of a tribal sort of culture than the mainland halflings of the Shires. Their history was going to be tied to the Carnifex and/or Serpentines; they were the possessors of lore handed down from generations of fighting against such creatures, and they were sort of the guardians against their reincursion into Mystara. Though they were more tribal, they weren't necessarily more primitive; in fact, their shamanic/mystical heritage would be much greater than the mainland halflings.

I swear I had a lot more thought out than that, but I can't remember much of it at the moment, and I never did really write it down, I don't think. Hopefully some of it will get jogged out of the depths of memory here.
I like these ideas. In general I think that Davania should have an overall Africa/South America feel, obviously also with room for pulpy variations such as remnants of the Milennians, Heldannic Knight explorers etc etc.

-Havard

Aliases: Håvard Frosta, Havard Blackmoor, Blackmoorian, Dragon Turtle etc
Where to find me on the Web
The Comeback Inn - My Blackmoor Forum
The Blackmoor Blog
THRESHOLD Magazine - The Mystara Fanzine
My Articles at the Vaults of Pandius
Moderator of the Mystara, Blackmoor and Thunder Rift forums.
My moderator voice is
GREEN.

User avatar
Cthulhudrew
Green Dragon
Posts: 4396
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 2:13 pm
Gender: male
Location: Long Beach, CA

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Cthulhudrew » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:28 pm

Ashtagon wrote:Regarding other races, I'd say dwarves should be essentially nn-existent in this area. This is probably a good place for tortles, rakasta, and lupins to be plentiful too, although I'm a bit hazy on their migration patterns.
I know that a couple of rakasta "sub-races" live in Davania, probably in/near this area- the sherkasta and simbasta, I believe.
agathokles wrote:I agree with a primarily Halfling population. However, I think the cause of the migration should be taken into account -- whatever the Hin fled from, is it still there? Or did the threat end at some point?
Going back to what I'd started thinking about when Geoff and I worked on our short story, I'd envisioned the Davanian halflings (or at least those near the desert) having contended with lizard/serpentine creatures with connections to the Carnifex. In particular, I know that I was thinking that sis'thik in the desert would have been among their primary opponents both historically (prompting the migration) and currently.
Moderator of the Mystara and Greyhawk forums. My moderator voice is gray-green.
Image

yellowdingo
Fire Giant
Posts: 1199
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:26 am
Gender: male

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by yellowdingo » Mon Oct 25, 2010 11:44 pm

THe problem is the Timeframe of Exodus for Halfling and Ilsundyl's Elves. The Elves arrive in the region 2800BC in the South, and the Halflings flee the Arrival of the Elves - not some other foe. THe Elves Stick around and only depart the Halfling Lands in 2600BC (200 years later).

2800BC: The Arrival of Ilsundyl's Elves in the South (having crossed the Great Desert) causes the Hin peoples a thousand miles north to flee North West. They have no intention fighting this coming horde of Strangers.

Either Directly, or by Pushing Other more hostile peoples ahead of them into the Halfling Lands, Ilsundyls Elves force the Halflings from their lands.

2600BC: Ilsundyl's Elves Migrate north from the old Hin Territories that they have spent the last two hundred years in. Stragglers having caught up after the Desert Crossing.

Ilsundyl's Elves spend the time divesting themselves of the last vestige of Blackmoorean Technology. Some of the Elves decide that they have sacrificed enough of Civilization to this fool's venture and that Ilsundyl is an Anti Technology Zealot(and the Dyl Clan not much better). The Dyr Clan decide to Settle in and re-establish some degree of Civilization.
Last edited by yellowdingo on Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:12 am, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
Cthulhudrew
Green Dragon
Posts: 4396
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 2:13 pm
Gender: male
Location: Long Beach, CA

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Cthulhudrew » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:03 am

yellowdingo wrote:THe problem is the Timeframe of Exodus for Halfling and Ilsundyl's Elves. The Elves arrive in the region 3800BC in the South, and the Halflings flee the Arrival of the Elves - not some other foe. THe Elves Stick around and only depart the Halfling Lands in 3600BC (200 years later).

3800BC: Ilsundyl's Elves Drive the Davinian Halflings out. Either Directly, or by Pushing Other more hostile peoples ahead of them into the Halfling Lands.
Not sure where you're getting those dates from. Ilsundal's migration is in 2800 BC. According to the map from the HW boxed set, halflings are either present in 2800 BC, or leave in 2800 BC (it isn't really clear what/how those dates apply), with elves present in the same region (from the migrations) until around 2600 BC. It may be that the elves drove them out, but in light of the elves' and halflings traditionally friendly ways (and given the way the halflings embrace the elves they find in the Shires later), it seems unlikely to me.

Now, the halfling migration northwards takes a considerably longer time than the elvish one (elves leaving the region in 2600 BC and arriving in Brun by 2200 BC; halflings leaving c.2800 and not arriving until 1500 BC). That can be interpreted many ways, but to me it seems like they were more leisurely about it, not feeling the pressure of needing to find somewhere new to live in the way the elves did. So it could be that this was not the entirety of the halfling nation that was moving, but rather just an isolated group of folks exploring and eventually finding its way to the Shires (and from there, other places.)

I tend to think there is still a very viable "core" of halflings in that region, who remained all throughout this period, and that the elves' departure in 2600 BC was not because they were driven out (or had driven out the halflings) but simply because the elves themselves were still restless and wanting to find a land of their own, rather than encroach upon the lands of the halflings.
Moderator of the Mystara and Greyhawk forums. My moderator voice is gray-green.
Image

yellowdingo
Fire Giant
Posts: 1199
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:26 am
Gender: male

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by yellowdingo » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:19 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:THe problem is the Timeframe of Exodus for Halfling and Ilsundyl's Elves. The Elves arrive in the region 3800BC in the South, and the Halflings flee the Arrival of the Elves - not some other foe. THe Elves Stick around and only depart the Halfling Lands in 3600BC (200 years later).

3800BC: Ilsundyl's Elves Drive the Davinian Halflings out. Either Directly, or by Pushing Other more hostile peoples ahead of them into the Halfling Lands.
Not sure where you're getting those dates from. Ilsundal's migration is in 2800 BC. According to the map from the HW boxed set, halflings are either present in 2800 BC, or leave in 2800 BC (it isn't really clear what/how those dates apply), with elves present in the same region (from the migrations) until around 2600 BC. It may be that the elves drove them out, but in light of the elves' and halflings traditionally friendly ways (and given the way the halflings embrace the elves they find in the Shires later), it seems unlikely to me.

Now, the halfling migration northwards takes a considerably longer time than the elvish one (elves leaving the region in 2600 BC and arriving in Brun by 2200 BC; halflings leaving c.2800 and not arriving until 1500 BC). That can be interpreted many ways, but to me it seems like they were more leisurely about it, not feeling the pressure of needing to find somewhere new to live in the way the elves did. So it could be that this was not the entirety of the halfling nation that was moving, but rather just an isolated group of folks exploring and eventually finding its way to the Shires (and from there, other places.)

I tend to think there is still a very viable "core" of halflings in that region, who remained all throughout this period, and that the elves' departure in 2600 BC was not because they were driven out (or had driven out the halflings) but simply because the elves themselves were still restless and wanting to find a land of their own, rather than encroach upon the lands of the halflings.
The Elves are a thousand miles south (having just emerged from the Desert) when the Halflings pack up and flee...They might be fleeing a rumor, or something real. If the Halflings are Nomads and Primitives, the Elves are Hi-techs looking to divest themselves of that Influence. That kind of Zealotry can take many forms. We know what the 'back to nature' cults are like amongst humans in the real world.

User avatar
Cthulhudrew
Green Dragon
Posts: 4396
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 2:13 pm
Gender: male
Location: Long Beach, CA

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by Cthulhudrew » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:30 am

yellowdingo wrote:The Elves are a thousand miles south (having just emerged from the Desert) when the Halflings pack up and flee...They might be fleeing a rumor, or something real. If the Halflings are Nomads and Primitives, the Elves are Hi-techs looking to divest themselves of that Influence. That kind of Zealotry can take many forms. We know what the 'back to nature' cults are like amongst humans in the real world.
That's certainly a valid interpretation, but it's not the only one. For one thing, there is no indication that the halflings are "fleeing" anything. The only info we have on the halfling migrations are 1) the HW migration map, 2) a mention of them in Champions of Mystara (pausing at Thanegia Island in their northern migration, being unsatisfied, and moving onwards), and 3) Gaz8, in which their history begins with them already arriving at Faerdinel (the Shires). None of which gives any reason for their migration to the north.

We're pretty much able to fill in the blanks as we please. We could describe the exodus as the entire group of clans picking up and moving to the north to escape the (real or imagined) ravening hordes of southern elves, but I think it would be a grave disservice and missed opportunity to do something different and exciting with the halflings if we do. Halflings always seem to be treated as more of an "afterthought" than anything (doubtless having to do with their origins as Tolkienesque hobbits.)

EDIT: Speaking of the southern halflings, I do remember now that as I was looking through Gaz8 for ideas on how to differentiate the Davanians, there were some clans whose names seemed less "modern" and possibly more "Lalor" in their word formation and sound, and I was going to use those as the basis of the original clan names. Offhand, names like Zursannatch, Nixnoddle, Quaeromore, Xebel, Quizzinglas, Elintel, Lamintar, Ilingall, Upplemiir, and probably a couple of others sounded less like the "descriptive craft or cultural" type of clan names, and more like other languages.
Moderator of the Mystara and Greyhawk forums. My moderator voice is gray-green.
Image

yellowdingo
Fire Giant
Posts: 1199
Joined: Sun Jan 18, 2009 10:26 am
Gender: male

Re: Platea: a challenge to the community

Post by yellowdingo » Tue Oct 26, 2010 12:40 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:
yellowdingo wrote:The Elves are a thousand miles south (having just emerged from the Desert) when the Halflings pack up and flee...They might be fleeing a rumor, or something real. If the Halflings are Nomads and Primitives, the Elves are Hi-techs looking to divest themselves of that Influence. That kind of Zealotry can take many forms. We know what the 'back to nature' cults are like amongst humans in the real world.
That's certainly a valid interpretation, but it's not the only one. For one thing, there is no indication that the halflings are "fleeing" anything. The only info we have on the halfling migrations are 1) the HW migration map, 2) a mention of them in Champions of Mystara (pausing at Thanegia Island in their northern migration, being unsatisfied, and moving onwards), and 3) Gaz8, in which their history begins with them already arriving at Faerdinel (the Shires). None of which gives any reason for their migration to the north.

We're pretty much able to fill in the blanks as we please. We could describe the exodus as the entire group of clans picking up and moving to the north to escape the (real or imagined) ravening hordes of southern elves, but I think it would be a grave disservice and missed opportunity to do something different and exciting with the halflings if we do. Halflings always seem to be treated as more of an "afterthought" than anything (doubtless having to do with their origins as Tolkienesque hobbits.)

EDIT: Speaking of the southern halflings, I do remember now that as I was looking through Gaz8 for ideas on how to differentiate the Davanians, there were some clans whose names seemed less "modern" and possibly more "Lalor" in their word formation and sound, and I was going to use those as the basis of the original clan names. Offhand, names like Zursannatch, Nixnoddle, Quaeromore, Xebel, Quizzinglas, Elintel, Lamintar, Ilingall, Upplemiir, and probably a couple of others sounded less like the "descriptive craft or cultural" type of clan names, and more like other languages.

In that case LALOR could just as well be the name of the Halfling Clan that flees North. Their Reasons could be fear of these foreigners, avoiding conflict with any monster races being pushed ahead of the elves, or simply because they heeded Ilsundyl's Call and departed on their own Journey North (their Hin scouts could have made contact early on and learned of Ilsundyl and the elves following him/her north).

Post Reply

Return to “Mystara”