Geography of Specularum

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by agathokles » Mon Mar 11, 2013 4:40 pm

Nicely done, Scarecrow!

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Chimpman » Mon Mar 11, 2013 7:54 pm

Scarecrow wrote:I've been considering running some old Basic D&D red box for my group. Give them a taste of the good old days (before any of them were born!!!) and Karameikos seemed like an excellent place to use as a campaign setting so I thought I'd work up a nice bird's eye illustration of the city. Searching for info on Specularum (now apparently named Mirros), lead me first to the above topographical images and also to this thread.
Hey Scarecrow, and welcome to the Piazza!

I love the 3D renditions and I can't wait to see them completed! I'm not sure what opinion I have about the height of the city walls as compared to the Stronghold walls. They definitely wouldn't be higher... but it's possible they could be a bit shorter. Do whatever it is you have planned - I'm curious as to how the views will turn out.

I know there's a lot out there, but you might also be able to pull some very useful information for your upcoming game from this thread: [FC:Specularum] Status and Reviving the project
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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by AllanP » Mon Mar 11, 2013 8:59 pm

Scarecrow wrote:My plan is to first create a 3D block model of the city to use as reference, for drawing over. Of course, I'd love to do a fully detailed, textured 3D model of the city that one could run about, but it would probably take the rest of my life, so I'll settle for a paintover :) - something like this one I did for a friend's campaign:
Brilliant stuff, Scarecrow!!!

I'd actually been toying with trying to do something similar last year, but couldn't find a program that was easy enough for me to use. I tried using SketchUp but with limited results...

I really like this idea and think it would bring Specularum alive.
Don't hesitate to get in touch if you want to discuss any aspects of the city layout, etc.
If there's anything that's not clear from my maps,just yell!

For what it's worth, the base of Stefsn's Stronghold is 185 feet above sea level and the mound on which it stands is 15feet above the Bricktop Road that encircles the Hill. K:KoA page 41 has the detailwith the castle walls being 15feet high as well...

I assumed that as Specularum is upriver from the sea, that it would be higher than sea level, and that the deep harbour of Mirror Bay needed to be around 90 feet deep, so the contours of the "small rolling hillocks" (K:KoA page 38) derives from there.

Looking forward to seeing your progress on this!

regards,
AllanP
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My Specularum website includes Specularum City maps and FC1 Work In Progress

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by AllanP » Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:19 pm

Scarecrow wrote:Once I had my scales all sorted, I drew up an elevation which I'll share with you here and it pretty much confirms what's been discussed above. Quite a shallow incline and the hills are more like subtle undulations in the terrain rather than the sharp rise in the illustration mentioned (which makes Specularum look much smaller than it should be and places the Stronghold more around 400-500 foot above sea level, if not more.
I think the illustration you're referring to might be the one on the back of the K:KoA "Explorer's Guide" book
Image

the caption to the image says "...this piece of art tends to exaggerate on certain details (such as the size of King Stefan;s Castle and its height above the surrounding territory)."

I quite like the glimpse of the city that you can see in the illustration on page 99 of the K:KoA book, although that still exaggerates the height of the castle and the vertical dimension. But I have adapted it as the banner heading on my Specularum website
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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Scarecrow » Mon Mar 11, 2013 10:42 pm

Thanks, guys.

Well, this is a BIG city. I've started blocking in the buildings as you can see in these renders. I've also completed the blockout of the city walls.

Image Image

The houses I've put in, are scaled by eye to be a fairly average two-storey medieval half timber building. It says somewhere (K:KoA I think) that the buildings in the city are all two-storey almost without exception.

I've grouped them quite tightly but that's supposed to be the Merchant District, so I think the houses would be larger and have more grounds around them.

You can get a better idea of the size in this image:

Image

Now, I have K:KoA now and will get hold of GAZ1 again and a friend has Dungeon 13 he's happy to let me reference, but you guys will be absolutely invaluable in providing input on what everything should look like. A city of this size needs key features and striking, individual buildings to make it all feel less samey and bland. I'd ultimately like it to have as much character as these pictures of fallcrest and Winterhaven by Brandon Kruse:

Fallcrest
Winterhaven

I'd really like to have a discussion and get a concensus on the height and thickness of the city walls, the stronghold walls and the height and diameter of all the towers. At the moment (with the exception of the city walls which are 40' high and 9 feet thick) they feel a bit too wide across the board. I know the Stronghold towers are shown that diameter but they just feel a bit squat and I don't think they should be taller.

Because of it's scale, I'm thinking the final illustration will need to be pretty big and so I might make it a 40"x30" wall poster print. That's a long way down the line, though.

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by AllanP » Mon Mar 11, 2013 11:34 pm

Scarecrow wrote:Well, this is a BIG city. I've started blocking in the buildings as you can see in these renders. I've also completed the blockout of the city walls.
WOW!!! Just adding the city walls makes the map come alive.

Regarding wall/tower dimensions, etc. - can we use info from the Rules Cyclopedia about construction of castles, and the like as a guide?

I'll have a think about what key features/buildings could be included. There's the Hightower of course, the Great Churches (of Karameikos, Thuyatis and Traladara), the City Jail maybe, perhaps the Ministry buildings in Bricktop....

Have you checked my maps of the city districts at http://www.specularum.org.uk/districtmaps.htm for possible ideas about what's on each block?
Scarecrow wrote:Because of it's scale, I'm thinking the final illustration will need to be pretty big and so I might make it a 40"x30" wall poster print. That's a long way down the line, though.
Put me down first in the queue to purchase one please!!! :D

regards,
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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by AllanP » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:16 am

regarding the dimensions of city walls, etc.....

Extracted from the Rules Cyclopedia page 137 - Fortifications Table Construction Detail:

Tower, Bastion............. Stone (30' x 30')
Tower, Round I............. Wide tower, stone (30' x 30')
Tower, Round II............ Narrow tower, stone (30' x 20')
Wall, Castle................. Stone (20' x 5' x 100' ) with battlements and stairs

The inside cover of GAZ1 has a detailed map of the Mirror Bay area at a scale of 1 inch = 200 feet.
As far as I can make out from this map, the city walls are 50' wide across the battlements, and the towers along the wall are 100' in diameter... So, potentially the walls and towers are shown wider than they would be realistically. The Hightowrr is 200' wide on this map. Also looking at the GAZ1 map, the walls look out of scale with the quays/piers that project out into the bay from the dockside.

Image

Is this any help?

regards,
AllanP
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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Scarecrow » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:37 am

Allan, that does help, thank you. I can rescale the walls and towers to be more sensible sizes but my fear is that too much of that will result in something that looks like Specularum but isn't Specularum. If you see what I mean. I think if everybody is cool with any changes we make, then it's not a problem. The last thing I want is to put in a whole heap of effort and find eventually that the reaction is, 'yeah, it's nice, but I can't use it, it's not Specularum.' I've sort of progressed from doing it for myself to doing it for you guys as well. I mean, why not? It could probably be very useful for the city guide you were working on.

I'll have to see if I can get hold of the Mirror bay map form inside GAZ1 and check out the scales.

On a side note I got the map from Dungeon 13 scanned in last night and it's bigger again!

You can see in this image the three different scales of Specularum over the years:

Image

The green outline is the map from Dungeon 13, the red outline is the map from GAZ1 at '1 inch = 600 feet', the blue outline is the same GAZ1 map scaled to '1 inch = 500 feet' and finally the pink outline is the map of Mirros from K:KoA.

The sizes vary wildly and, to be honest, I think the smallest version from K:KoA is probably a more realistic size for a medieval city - provided you scale the Stronghold up to it's original size (or maybe you shouldn't even do that!). However, this is Specularum and the map from GAZ1 at 600' is the definitive map, I feel, so I'll go with that.

Just for interest's sake, I've created a similar map showing the variations in the Stronghold size.
The same colours apply, but notice how the closest fit is the GAZ1 map shrunk to '1 inch = 500 feet':

Image

Finally, Allan, I'd love to check out your Specularum website, but every link I click on takes me to the front page of the web host, ajpinternet.com :(

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by AllanP » Tue Mar 12, 2013 11:14 am

Scarecrow wrote:Allan, that does help, thank you. I can rescale the walls and towers to be more sensible sizes but my fear is that too much of that will result in something that looks like Specularum but isn't Specularum. If you see what I mean. I think if everybody is cool with any changes we make, then it's not a problem. The last thing I want is to put in a whole heap of effort and find eventually that the reaction is, 'yeah, it's nice, but I can't use it, it's not Specularum.' I've sort of progressed from doing it for myself to doing it for you guys as well. I mean, why not? It could probably be very useful for the city guide you were working on.
I think the accuracy/consistency of the various maps is something we have to live with. I imagine it was probably a case of getting them to fit the available space, and "what looks good". Yes! - the 3D map will be very useful for the FC1 project.
Scarecrow wrote:The sizes vary wildly and, to be honest, I think the smallest version from K:KoA is probably a more realistic size for a medieval city - provided you scale the Stronghold up to it's original size (or maybe you shouldn't even do that!). However, this is Specularum and the map from GAZ1 at 600' is the definitive map, I feel, so I'll go with that.
Yes - I think I had some issues when trying to compile my 2D maps using bits from the different maps. As I said above, I think in some cases, the "original" has been stretched/squashed to fir the available space?
Scarecrow wrote:Finally, Allan, I'd love to check out your Specularum website, but every link I click on takes me to the front page of the web host, ajpinternet.com :(
That's annoying :evil: Can you try www.ajpinternet.com/specularum ? (http://www.specularum.org.uk should redirect to that directory)

BTW - the drawing program I use to create the district maps has a "Export as CAD/CAM" option - to produce files in .dwg, .dxf or .plt format - I don't know how "good" these outputs are, if you could use them in the program that you're using to create the 3D model - just athought. I have no experience of using these sorts of files, so don't lnow anything more than the option exists.
regards,
AllanP
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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Scarecrow » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:53 pm

Sadly, no. No matter how I try to get to Specularum.org.uk, I end up at the ajpinternet front page. :(

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by AllanP » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:38 pm

Scarecrow wrote:Sadly, no. No matter how I try to get to Specularum.org.uk, I end up at the ajpinternet front page. :(

Crow
This is really puzzling! :?
The links work OK for me, and I'm unaware of anybody else having problems.
As I say, http://www.specularum.org.uk just points to a folder within the http://www.ajpinternet.com domain.
Do you think your ISP might niot be resolving the redirection correctly?
I'll try and think of a solution...

regards,
AllanP
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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Cthulhudrew » Tue Mar 12, 2013 5:32 pm

Just seeing the latest updates here; welcome, Scarecrow, and your work looks awesome! I see that AllanP has already linked to the picture I was thinking of when I first saw your 3D model. I think that picture looks a little exaggerated from how the city would/should look, but it might help to give you a grounding for what you want to do with it.

Looking forward to seeing more!
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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Scarecrow » Tue Mar 12, 2013 9:40 pm

I've been giving the towers and walls more thought. I've been looking at real castle towers and studying various plans, and it seems most towers are either around 20 foot diameter, or 40 foot diameter.

Warwick Castle in Warwickshire has a main structural feature called 'Guy's Tower' which is 40' dia (approx) and 128 feet tall.

Guy's Tower, Warwick

Put next to the towers for the Stronghold, looks like this:

Image

That's not bad, actually. I think the Stronghold towers could stand to all be that tall but I think could still stand some reduction in diameter. The towers in the city walls should be substantially smaller, I think. I also get the impression thyat whilst the Stronghold walls might be 40' tall, the city walls are more likely to be 25' - I'm not sure how well this trucks with the design rules mentioned above and I might need to do some more research.

Any suggestions?

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Scarecrow » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:15 pm

Oh, something else that's bothering me, the illustration in K:KoA shows the Stronghold sitting on a built up area. The sides slope away quite sharply from the base of the gate towers and walls. I think you've inlcuded this in the topography but the distances between the height lines makes it very shallow.

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Scarecrow » Tue Mar 12, 2013 10:39 pm

I'm looking at the map of the Stronghold and I genuinely think that somebody goofed with the scale in GAZ1 - unless that scale is only half an inch wide.
The towers are 65 feet in diameter, the gates are 70 feet wide, the walls are 30 feet thick and the stairs leading up to them are 15 feet wide. I think the Stronghold is simply too big. In fact, I think it's about twice the size it should be, but that's quite a substantial change to canon.

Thoughts, feelings?

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by AllanP » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:45 am

Scarecrow wrote:Oh, something else that's bothering me, the illustration in K:KoA shows the Stronghold sitting on a built up area. The sides slope away quite sharply from the base of the gate towers and walls. I think you've inlcuded this in the topography but the distances between the height lines makes it very shallow.
I quite like that illustration (K:KoA pgs 44-45); I think that's how I imagined the Stronghold Palace looking.

Regarding the shallowness of the mound - I think it's a result of my lack of skill/detail. What I was trying to show on the "topographic" map was that Bricvktop Road that runs around the mound is at 170' hign, the top of the mound is 185' high (the 15' difference described in K:KoA), but I haven't made it clear that Bricktop Road is flat across at the 170' height until it reaches the perimeter of the mound where it rises at a steep angle to 185'. So, I've always thought of it reflecting the K:KoA illustration, but just didn't show this clearly on my contour map (an example of my lack of knowledge). So the 170' height is a sort of plateau, with a smaller mound rising sharply from it. (The mound itself dates back to ancient times and the original building of a tomb on the Hill - see the History chapter of the FC1 Project).
Scarecrow wrote:I'm looking at the map of the Stronghold and I genuinely think that somebody goofed with the scale in GAZ1 - unless that scale is only half an inch wide.
The towers are 65 feet in diameter, the gates are 70 feet wide, the walls are 30 feet thick and the stairs leading up to them are 15 feet wide. I think the Stronghold is simply too big. In fact, I think it's about twice the size it should be, but that's quite a substantial change to canon.
I think it's even worse with the map of Stefan's palace on page 42 of K:KoA. There the scale is 1 inch = 200 feet, and the resulting stronghold is 1000' east-west; the version on the inside cover of GAZ1 is only 800'. At least that's consistent with the stronghold outline on the GAZ1 city map (1 inch = 600 feet). Meanwhile on the K@KoA city map (1 inch = 500 feet) the stronghold east-west appears to be 750 feet (nit 1000' as on page 42 as above).

I think all this means is that we have to make best guesses at the measurements. The original illustrators of the products may have been constrained by the available space they had to work in whilst endeavouring to make the buildings, etc clear enough for people to actually read/recognise. Physically on the GAZ1 city map, from the furthest western point of the city wall to the eastern point of the harbour gates is about 10 inches, and from the northernmost point of the city wall to the southernmost point is more lioke 9 inches. However, on the K;KoA poster sheet, if you look at the city map there, the same distances are both 8 inches, thus making the K;KoA city more squarer in shape!. And, for completeness' sake, measuring these distances on the Dungeon 13 map, they are both 6.5 inches - so that map is squarer than the original GAZ1 map - most likely because when it was set up for publication it was "adjusted to fit the dimensions of the Dungeon page size.

So, where doers that leave us? My thoughts are that the GAZ1 map is the original/best (and it';s the one that my district maps of the cuty are derived from ;) !) to give us the "shape" of the city. I do feel that the maps of the stronghold are exaggerated, and it would be interesting to see a "realistic"-sized version, although this might mean the mound has to shrink in diameter as I think the key feature here is that the stronghold sits on the edges of the mound. Looking at the K:KoA illustration of the front of the stronghold on pages 44-45, can we get an idea of the size by using the height (say 6') of the guards in front of the gate?

How does that sound?

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Scarecrow » Wed Mar 13, 2013 10:34 am

Okay, let's have a look.

Here is the illustration with a scale made by taking the guards as 6 feet. Obviously I can well believe that the illustration was done with only cursory reference to the floor plans and also this scale is very vague being defined by a nebulous property to begin with and being further distorted by perspective, however the results are pretty telling.

Image

The gate wall appears to be around 20-21 feet to the top of the battlements. The gate towers are around 27 feet tall and around 12-13 feet wide. Even if there was a way of making these measurements substantially more accurate, that's still way, way smaller than the 60 foot diameter on the GAZ1 map and, I think even still considerably smaller than the much smaller K:KoA map.

Something else I noticed last night as well, was that looking at the illustrated plan of the Stronghold in K:KoA on page 42, the illustrator clearly didn't realise how big it was either, unless the windows and doors and surrounding houses are designed for giants! Without verifying, it feels more like the size it's shown in the illustration.

Here's the problem. If we scale it down to the size it's shown in the illustration, and it needs to be scaled down to about a third of the size it's shown in GAZ1 - then it suddenly becomes a very tiny building in a vast sea of roofs.

You know, I'm leaning more and more towards using the K:KoA map of Mirros. This is for several reasons:

Firstly I think the city and the Stronghold are a much more realistic size. It also exaggerates the undulations in the hills of the city, which I think is visually more interesting and will allow the Stronghold to feel more elevated, which it should. It means fewer but bigger buildings which allows for more detail in the illustration. Even on a much smaller scale (and it's about 60% the size of Specularum), there is still plenty of room for all of the locations ever mentioned in GAZ1, K:KoA, Dungeon 13 and any other publications and adventures (including your city guide) and still leave a myriad unmarked buildings for future use.

It'd still be Specularum in all but surface area, really.

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Scarecrow » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:07 pm

Right then, I've spent some time googling maps of real castles from England and Wales and throughout Europe and scaled them all to 1 pixel = 1 foot and gathered them all together on a single image with the Stronghold map from GAZ1 scaled equally.

Image

I don't think I need to explain how broken that is.

I've also included the Stronghold map scaled down to a third it's original size. That is a much more realistic size, I think especially as it's essentially just a keep. The towers could stand to be slightly broader, but the gates are still very wide and the overall surface area of the Stronghold is still a little large, I think.

-EDIT-

And this is what it looks like on the GAZ1 map:

Image

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by AllanP » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:29 pm

This is great work, Scarecrow. very impressive stuff.
Scarecrow wrote: The gate wall appears to be around 20-21 feet to the top of the battlements. The gate towers are around 27 feet tall and around 12-13 feet wide. Even if there was a way of making these measurements substantially more accurate, that's still way, way smaller than the 60 foot diameter on the GAZ1 map and, I think even still considerably smaller than the much smaller K:KoA map.
Agreed.
Scarecrow wrote:Something else I noticed last night as well, was that looking at the illustrated plan of the Stronghold in K:KoA on page 42, the illustrator clearly didn't realise how big it was either, unless the windows and doors and surrounding houses are designed for giants! Without verifying, it feels more like the size it's shown in the illustration.
Here's the problem. If we scale it down to the size it's shown in the illustration, and it needs to be scaled down to about a third of the size it's shown in GAZ1 - then it suddenly becomes a very tiny building in a vast sea of roofs.
I think we're agreeing that the illustrations/maps of Stefan's Palace are "representative" rather than "scale drawings" - they're showing what's there, but do not reflect the actual dimensions. It ssems the scale quoted oin both the GAZ1 and K:KoA diagrams of the stronghld
Scarecrow wrote:You know, I'm leaning more and more towards using the K:KoA map of Mirros. This is for several reasons:

Firstly I think the city and the Stronghold are a much more realistic size. It also exaggerates the undulations in the hills of the city, which I think is visually more interesting and will allow the Stronghold to feel more elevated, which it should. It means fewer but bigger buildings which allows for more detail in the illustration. Even on a much smaller scale (and it's about 60% the size of Specularum), there is still plenty of room for all of the locations ever mentioned in GAZ1, K:KoA, Dungeon 13 and any other publications and adventures (including your city guide) and still leave a myriad unmarked buildings for future use.

It'd still be Specularum in all but surface area, really.
I don't have any great issues with this approach. I'm taking the view that the RW mapmakers were just fitting things to available space, and any Karameikan mapmaker was a bit "artistic" in producing maps that showed where things were in relation to one another, rather than necessarily being accurate on sizes. (After all, modern day guide books don't always have scale maps, rather maps that put things in relation to one another.) I don't think this contradicts my district maps of the city either, as again they're showing the position of things in relation to one another rather than being accurate fott-by-foot. yard-by-yard, mile-by-mile scale drawings of the city. (The scale bar on my maps is only an indication!)
I like the idea of the K:KoA map exaggerating the hillocks a bit more.
As you say, so long as we can fit in the identified buildings and still have room for all the anonymopus ones, it will still be Specularum.

BTW - am I right in thinking that we could end up with some street levl views in this model? That might make up for all the lack of Specularum street illustrations in the published products - I'd love to see a view standing near the Hightower and looking towards the palce, for example. ***sigh!!***

regards,
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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Scarecrow » Wed Mar 13, 2013 1:46 pm

This is cheering news, as the way things are going, there may well need to be some considerable scaling down and maybe even some fudging - especially around the Stronghold on Bricktop.
AllanP wrote:BTW - am I right in thinking that we could end up with some street levl views in this model? That might make up for all the lack of Specularum street illustrations in the published products - I'd love to see a view standing near the Hightower and looking towards the palce, for example. ***sigh!!***
Oh yes, yes indeed. Now, the 3D model will only be basic, grey block models but I'll be able to use them as a guide to draw/paint some fairly accurate illustrations.

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by AllanP » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:29 pm

Scarecrow wrote:Right then, I've spent some time googling maps of real castles from England and Wales and throughout Europe and scaled them all to 1 pixel = 1 foot and gathered them all together on a single image with the Stronghold map from GAZ1 scaled equally.

I don't think I need to explain how broken that is.
I've also included the Stronghold map scaled down to a third it's original size. That is a much more realistic size, I think especially as it's essentially just a keep. The towers could stand to be slightly broader, but the gates are still very wide and the overall surface area of the Stronghold is still a little large, I think.

And this is what it looks like on the GAZ1 map:
Nice work, Crow!

Yes - when compared against RW examples, Stefan's palace does look out of proportion. Incidentally, the castle that I keep thinking about is Chateau de Pierrefonds in France that was used as Camelot in the BBC's Merlin tv series. Not sure how that compares in size.

I guess that Stefan's castle has to be large enough to accommodate the royal family and its retinue, plus enough space in the courtyards for te two guard garrisons, etc.
Scarecrow wrote:This is cheering news, as the way things are going, there may well need to be some considerable scaling down and maybe even some fudging - especially around the Stronghold on Bricktop.
Yes - I sort of see the wide Bricktop road encircling the Hill nearest to the Hill Market etc, then coming in towards the castle, a very slight incline of grassed over area before the sharp almost vertical 15' rise of the mound to the base of the castle walls. Perhaps the land between Bricktop Road and the mound is used as training grounds by the garrisons, or sometimes for festivals and jousting, or perhaps some public fairs and the like? I've always thought the city seemed to lack that sort of area.
Scarecrow wrote:Oh yes, yes indeed. Now, the 3D model will only be basic, grey block models but I'll be able to use them as a guide to draw/paint some fairly accurate illustrations.
Sounds awesome! :D
AllanP
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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Scarecrow » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:17 pm

Chateau de Pierrefonds? Ah. Now then, that works really well. Not only is it a proper fantasy castle, it is really BIG! If we made the Stronghold more like that, then it could easily be closer to the size shown in GAZ1. I'll see if I can get a scale comparison put together.

Crow

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Scarecrow » Wed Mar 13, 2013 8:51 pm

Okay, then, here's a scale comparison with Chateau de Pierrefonds.

Image

You can see the Stronghold on the right and, as per the previous image it's ridiculously huge!
However, at half scale, it's more or less the same size as the Chateau. Not bad. It means making the Stronghold into something bigger and more impressive than the simple medieval fortification shown, but I'm all for that! I think Chateau de Pierrefonds is an excellent model to base the design on.

Crow

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by AllanP » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:06 pm

Scarecrow wrote:You can see the Stronghold on the right and, as per the previous image it's ridiculously huge!
However, at half scale, it's more or less the same size as the Chateau. Not bad. It means making the Stronghold into something bigger and more impressive than the simple medieval fortification shown, but I'm all for that! I think Chateau de Pierrefonds is an excellent model to base the design on.
Glad you like my suggestion of the Chateau/Camelot :)
I think the basic concept of Stefan's Palace still stands, i.e. inner and outer courtyards, garrisons, what remains of the old Marilenev Palace, etc. but all fitting together better than just the plain stronghold.
And I'd stick with the open tower tops rather than going to the pointy tops of the Chateau - I think that aspect would be mpre Glantrian than anything.

regards,
AllanP
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My Specularum website includes Specularum City maps and FC1 Work In Progress

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Re: Geography of Specularum

Post by Scarecrow » Wed Mar 13, 2013 9:19 pm

Fair enough. I also think that, like the Chateau, the main structures should connect with the walls rather than being free standing.

Crow

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