[FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

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AllanP
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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by AllanP »

Thanks for the feedback agathokles!

That all helps.

As you may have noticed from my preliinary map on page 4 of my Church District Design Notes, I haven't yet decided on the lovation opf the Church of Thyatis building. At the moment I'm debating between blocks 9, 10, 15, 16 and 20 - do you have any preference?

Also, anything else about Flavian Osteropoulos? Why does he have a column erected here?

Finally (for the moment), in addition to the Great Church of Karameikos and the Church of Thyatis, can we expect to see a few other small shrines/temples in this district? I;m toying with the idea of one building still innruins from the AC900 invasion that hasn't been re-biilt or whatever - local legend has it cursed and there may be a hidden entrance that leads down to ancient Traldar (Nithian?) remains...

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by agathokles »

AllanP wrote: As you may have noticed from my preliinary map on page 4 of my Church District Design Notes, I haven't yet decided on the lovation opf the Church of Thyatis building. At the moment I'm debating between blocks 9, 10, 15, 16 and 20 - do you have any preference?
I'd say 16 -- it's near the bathhouses, as well as the column.
Also, anything else about Flavian Osteropoulos? Why does he have a column erected here?
IIRC, Flavian was the general who led the Thyatian conquest of Traladara. He erected the column here because the district was supposed to become the Thyatian center of civil power in the city. The column itself is, like Colonna Traiana in Rome and many other similar Roman buildings, a celebration of the conquest.
He chose to have it in Specularum because only Emperors would raise such monuments to themselves in Thyatis city.
Finally (for the moment), in addition to the Great Church of Karameikos and the Church of Thyatis, can we expect to see a few other small shrines/temples in this district? I;m toying with the idea of one building still innruins from the AC900 invasion that hasn't been re-biilt or whatever - local legend has it cursed and there may be a hidden entrance that leads down to ancient Traldar (Nithian?) remains...
Given the presence of two major churches, we can't expect too many other shrines, but there could be one associated more specifically with Vanya, used mostly by the Order of the Griffon. Having a ruined Traladaran shrine, OTOH, is an excellent idea.

GP

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by AllanP »

Once again, many thanks for your feedback GP.

OK - block 16 it is for the location of the Church of ?Thyatis building.

I'll look up that column example to get inspiration for its size,etc.

I think a Temple of Vanbya near/attached to the Order of the Griffon Hall will be just right.

And block 6 with the Granaries will be the location of the ruined Traldar temple. No-one is too sure about what it is now - it's been about 100 years since it was demolished at the Invasion, and as this is now predominantly a Thyatian district, not many knowledgeable Traladarans come to the site.

I'm hoping that I can make a start on the detailed map next week...

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by agathokles »

AllanP wrote: I think a Temple of Vanbya near/attached to the Order of the Griffon Hall will be just right.

And block 6 with the Granaries will be the location of the ruined Traldar temple. No-one is too sure about what it is now - it's been about 100 years since it was demolished at the Invasion, and as this is now predominantly a Thyatian district, not many knowledgeable Traladarans come to the site.
Ok, I'll update the list of buildings accordingly.

GP

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by AllanP »

Just a brief progress report...

Map of the Church District is developing. I've used a slightly different style for the buildings this time which shouldn't make them too "blotchy" when zoomed out. I guess I'm about a third of the way through this one, and hope to have more time at the end of this week to expand it further.

In the meantime, here's a sample of what it looks like so far
Image
and this is tharea as shown onthe GAZ1 inside cover
Image

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by Havard »

Wow Allan,
that looks fantastic! :)

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by agathokles »

Agreed, this new snippet is excellent!

GP
Last edited by agathokles on Tue Oct 21, 2008 8:14 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by Atendoro »

Astonishing! Really a good job.

What about Glantri City?

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by agathokles »

Atendoro wrote: What about Glantri City?
We've still got 6 more Specularum districts to cover, not to mention writing them down with full history, building descriptions, notable figures, and adventure hooks. Then we can worry about the next Fantasy City to do ;)

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by AllanP »

Thanks for the positive comments Havard and GP
agathokles wrote:
Atendoro wrote: What about Glantri City?
We've still got 6 more Specularum districts to cover, not to mention writing them down with full history, building descriptions, notable figures, and adventure hooks. Then we can worry about the next Fantasy City to do ;)

GP
Yes... as GP indicates, there'splenty of work to do on Specularum yet! But if anyone else wantsto take up the challenge with Glantri City, I won't stand in their way...! ;)

While I'm adding more to the Church District map of Specularum, I'm wondering which city district to tackle next.. I haven't made up my mind yet. If people want to suggest their choice, we'll see if there's any favourite district to work on next (although the Cartographer's decision will be final).

The Specularum City districts to be tackled are:
  • The Hill
  • Bricktop
  • North End
  • South End
  • Merchant Quarter
  • Old Quarter
  • The Nest
  • Foreign Quarter
  • Traders' Corridor
(hmmm. that's 8 districts - were you combining some GP?)

Any thoughts?
regards,
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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by agathokles »

AllanP wrote: (hmmm. that's 8 districts - were you combining some GP?)
No, I was forgetting some of them ;)

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by AllanP »

agathokles wrote:
AllanP wrote: (hmmm. that's 8 districts - were you combining some GP?)
No, I was forgetting some of them ;)

GP
And when I typed "8", I should actually have typed "9" ! :oops:
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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by metal »

Great looking map!
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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by AllanP »

Church District Map

This sample below is part of my latest map of Specularum Districts.
Image

You can see the full PDF map by clicking [here

As before I welcome your constructive comments.

Thanks to other members of the Piazza, especiallu agathokles and Lozampatore, among others for their inspiration and support.

regards,
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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by Havard »

AllanP wrote:You can see the full PDF map by clicking [here
This is a thing of beauty Allan! Give us more! :)

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by Hugin »

Looks beautiful! Don't know how you do it but keep it up!

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by AllanP »

Thanks for the compliments Havard and Hugin.

I'm not sure how I'm managing this either ;) But positive feedback always helps.

Perhaps one or two people might like to take a an individual block or street in the Stronghold or Church Districts and flesh them out a bit more? Drop me a line if you want to discuss that a bit more.

I think the Foreign Quarter is next on the list, but I have a few questions about the variety of nationalities, etc that we can expect to find there - and I'll post my thoughts for this in due course, once I've reviewed agathokles' notes on notable buildings in the FQ.

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by agathokles »

AllanP wrote: I think the Foreign Quarter is next on the list, but I have a few questions about the variety of nationalities, etc that we can expect to find there - and I'll post my thoughts for this in due course, once I've reviewed agathokles' notes on notable buildings in the FQ.
I think there's quite a bit of variety, but primarily the Foreign Quarter will house Darokinians, Ierendians, Hin and Dwarves, and to a lesser extent Ylari, Elves and Minrothaddans (though some might choose the Trader's Corridor instead). Other nationalities would certainly occur, but in much lower numbers -- you might find the odd Glantrian or Northman adventurer, but not sizable communities of them.

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by AllanP »

The Foreign Quarter
agathokles wrote:I think there's quite a bit of variety, but primarily the Foreign Quarter will house Darokinians, Ierendians, Hin and Dwarves, and to a lesser extent Ylari, Elves and Minrothaddans (though some might choose the Trader's Corridor instead). Other nationalities would certainly occur, but in much lower numbers -- you might find the odd Glantrian or Northman adventurer, but not sizable communities of them.

GP
We're thinking along the same lineshere, GP.

My feelingsre that inorder of most populous, the communituies in the Foreign Quarter would be:
1, Hin
2. Darokinian
3. Dwarves
4. Minrothaddans
5. Ylari
6. Ierendi
7. Elves
8. Other (Glantrians, Ethengars, Northmen, etc)

I'm trying to decide how to distribute these communities ariound the FQ district.
Here's the GAZ1 map (split in two to fit the forum page better, and with blocks numbered.
Image

The green shaded areas either side of the North Road and at the west end of the district (near theestron Gate) are market/merchant areas.
We need to cater for the notable buildinbgs you've identified earlier in this topic - including the City Jail, temples, and Foreigners' Graveyard (is it OK for different nationalities/races to beburied in the same graveyard?)

Your list is:
Cee Salt (Lathan's Gold)
Dagger's Fencing School (informal) (new)
Augrist Temple (new)
Church of Darokin (new)
Shrine of the Eternal Truth (new)
House Hallonica (Darokin House article)
City Jail (Lathan's Gold)
Foreigners' Graveyard (new)
Jockle Rumbottom's Pipe Shop (Joshuan's Almanac, on Crooked Street)
Crooked Street (Joshuan's Almanac)
Cozy Burrow Inn (Joshuan's Almanac)

I see the Darokinians operating most of the market in block 9.
The "Foreign Market" (maybe locally called "The Grand Bazaar" (?) in blocks 20/22/23/24/26/28 being a mixture of Hin/Darokinian, Minrothaddan and Ylari.
Darokinian and Hin communities largely in the western half of the district, Minrothaddan, Ylari and Dwarven in the eastern half.
Perhaps the graveyard is in that area above block 10? with the Jail and District Courthouse being in either/both blocks 10 and/or 11?
A range of building styles - your contributions elsewhere describe the temples. Perhaps there are also some tents associated with the Ylary? What sort of buildings will the Dwarven and Elven residents inhabit? I imagine the odd Glantrian might have something a bit "gothic"...

As always, I welcome further input and suggestions, particulary in names for taverns, inns and streets!

regards,
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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by agathokles »

Here's the relevant fragment from K:KoA:
Foreign Quarter
Most of the people from other nations, as well as the majority of demihumans who reside in the city, live in this area of town, which sprang up outside the original city walls. Thyatians are the exception. They prefer to reside in more “acceptable” neighborhoods. In the Foreign Quarter a character can encounter a dwarven merchant from Rockhome, a shadow elf diplomat, an Ethengar barbarian, an Ylari desert rider, or a Glantrian mage on the run from his own country. The largest and most visible population group is made up of halfling immigrants from the Five Shires who have swelled the district in the past few years.
Natives of Mirros (called Mirrans) tend to view the Foreign Quarter with disdain and a little fear, as there are often battles in the streets between rival nationalities.
Note that this description refers to AC 1012. In AC 1000, the number of Hin residents would be much lower -- though still they would make up a sizable portion of the district population.

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by AllanP »

agathokles wrote:Note that this description refers to AC 1012. In AC 1000, the number of Hin residents would be much lower -- though still they would make up a sizable portion of the district population.

GP
Aha! I should hacve known you'd straighten me out on this, GP!

Good point there, I'll look at revising the table of nationalities by populatio in the Foreign Quarter accordingly.

For completeness, the GAZ1 description of the Foreign Quarter is much briefer:
This area of town, built outside tthe original city walls, is where most foreigners in Specularum live - this includes not only humans from other nations, but demihumans living within the city as well. As you might expect, street gangs tend to belong to one ethnic group or anotherand have heated clashes. Note: thyatians don't end up on the Foreign Quarter; they're too much like the ruling Karameikans to be discriminated against.
While thinking about "foreigners" in Specularum, I note that in the Mystara "PlayerSurvival Kit", there's an example "Letter of Credit" issued on the Bank of Darokin. Adventurers and others can deposit their gold at the bank and receive a letter of vredit which tghey can redeem at another branch of the bank.The document reads (in part): "...this Letter of Credit may be redeemed for that full amount at any branch of the Bank of Darokin..., whether in Darokin City itself, Selenica, Glantri City, Mirros, or Thyatis City."

I'm assuming that the Bank of Darokin has its branch in Specularum (later Mirros) in AC1000. I'm also assuming that as it's an international operation, rather than being situated in the Foreign Quarter, the Specularum branch is located in the Merchant District...

Has anyone any further thoughts on the Foreign Quarter?

regards,
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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by Ville Lahde »

The notion of a unified Bank of Darokin does not in my mind fit very well with the depiction of the Darokin Gazetteer. Instead of true banks
and true currency there are merchant houses whose letters of credit have become so stable that they have began to circulate as primitive
"bank notes". I would propose that "Bank of Darokin" is an enterprise of several Great Houses which acts as a clearing house for trade and
finance. Merchants can pay their debts throught the system of letters of credit, and outsiders can cash on the letters they have received from
Darokin traders. But perhaps this institution has also begun to act as a bank/moneylender in a more modern sense. However, in this level of
social development I'd say that a bank would charge the customer for cashing in checks or for keeping their money.

I suggest that it's likely to be situated in the Merchant or diplomat quarters. Foreign Quarter is for the poorer
foreigners or the ones with no stable property in Karameikos?

For Ylari: do not forget the clashes between the two religious casts (Kin/Preceptor), and the two cultural groups (nomad/hazar)
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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by AllanP »

Ville Lahde wrote:The notion of a unified Bank of Darokin does not in my mind fit very well with the depiction of the Darokin Gazetteer. ...
Thanks for your feedback, Ville Lahde.

I was also a bit wary of the concept of a bank as such. I suspect the reason for the inclusio of this in the "Players' Survival Kit" was to provide a means whereby Adventurers didn't have to continually transport their accumulated gold pieces with them - it was somewhere for them to deposit their wealth while retaining the value i the form of a "letter of credit". I shall have to dig out my copy of the Darokin Gazetteer and review things there.
Yes, the "Bank of Darokin" will be best placed in the Merchant District, along with various moneychangers and the like (although there will be moneychangers in other parts of the city as well).

Not sure that the Foreign Quarter is for poorer foreigners - it may be a case that there are some well-to-do foreigners there who prefer to reside with their fellow nationals, rather than live with the Karameikans/Thyatians/Traldarans...
For Ylari: do not forget the clashes between the two religious casts (Kin/Preceptor), and the two cultural groups (nomad/hazar)
Thanks for flagging up this point. I giess there may not be one unified Ylari community in the Foreign Quarter, then? Where's my copy of GAZ2?

Many thanks for taking the time to post your comments,
regards,
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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by Ville Lahde »

AllanP wrote: Not sure that the Foreign Quarter is for poorer foreigners - it may be a case that there are some well-to-do foreigners there who prefer to reside with their fellow nationals, rather than live with the Karameikans/Thyatians/Traldarans...
True, true, I was hasty with that. But perhaps those foreigners whose businesses are more strongly linked to the main economy of Specularum
are more likely to have their shops etc. in the Merchant quarter. Of course they can still choose to live in the FQ.

What about having strong class distinctions in the Foreign Quarter precisely on this point? I would think that the dwarven and the Hin communities
might be more egalitarian and closely knit (sort of Chinatowns), with local leaders and social arrangements that the Karameikan officials can work with.
Whereas with the other nationalities you can have wider economic and social gaps... shantytowns alongside rich manors? There might be some areas that are
controlled so well by the ethnic gangs that the town guard refuses to go there. These again may offer safe havens for other undesirables - dark deals with
the Iron Ring, Traldar rebels, Veiled Society, Minrothaddan thief/spy network...

And of course: if Karameikos has some restrictions on certain practices and substances (I do not remember whether this is the case though), Foreign Quarter would be a logical place for illicit activities. Prostitution will be most likely widespread in any case, although FQ may offer some "exotics", but I am
thinking about bloodsports, serious narcotics et cetera.

I will soon start a new campaign in Specularum (based on a series of Specularum adventures which I wrote years ago and translated in the Vaults), and
this all is very very helpful.

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Re: [FC:Specularum] Notable buildings by district

Post by AllanP »

Ville Lahde wrote:
AllanP wrote: Not sure that the Foreign Quarter is for poorer foreigners - it may be a case that there are some well-to-do foreigners there who prefer to reside with their fellow nationals, rather than live with the Karameikans/Thyatians/Traldarans...
True, true, I was hasty with that. But perhaps those foreigners whose businesses are more strongly linked to the main economy of Specularum
are more likely to have their shops etc. in the Merchant quarter. Of course they can still choose to live in the FQ.
Yes - I agree with that; a lot of "foreigners" will have businesses in that district, but tere will be some who have a prescence i the Merchant districts.
What about having strong class distinctions in the Foreign Quarter precisely on this point? I would think that the dwarven and the Hin communities might be more egalitarian and closely knit (sort of Chinatowns), with local leaders and social arrangements that the Karameikan officials can work with. Whereas with the other nationalities you can have wider economic and social gaps... shantytowns alongside rich manors? There might be some areas that are controlled so well by the ethnic gangs that the town guard refuses to go there. These again may offer safe havens for other undesirables - dark deals with the Iron Ring, Traldar rebels, Veiled Society, Minrothaddan thief/spy network...
Very good thoughts there! I'm trying to work out where the boundaries are - which communities are likely to be neighbours (I don't imagine you'll see any Elves near the Dwarves, for instance). This district could be quite interesting.
And of course: if Karameikos has some restrictions on certain practices and substances (I do not remember whether this is the case though), Foreign Quarter would be a logical place for illicit activities. Prostitution will be most likely widespread in any case, although FQ may offer some "exotics", but I am thinking about bloodsports, serious narcotics et cetera.
Another interesting suggestion. While "Th Nest" district is relatively "illegal", there will be some activities of this sort which may be more prevalent in the FQ, or have transferred there.
I will soon start a new campaign in Specularum (based on a series of Specularum adventures which I wrote years ago and translated in the Vaults), and this all is very very helpful.
Well if your campaign throws up any interesting aspects relating to Specularum, please report on them here so that we can incorporate things.

Again, many thanks for the feedback,
AllanP
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