HELP needed from our native Italians

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Mortis
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HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by Mortis » Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:40 pm

Hi guys

I intend to use this thread to post some queries as I come across problems with the Immortal translations so if you could help I would be grateful.

First of all, Marco has an Immortal called Plasmatore from IM3 (unfortunately I don't have any of the Immortal scenarios) is this his correct name (looks Italian to me)? If not what would it be in English?

Another quick one is one of Mazikeen's nicknames namely Stirpicore il Serpentiform, the end which I presume is Serpentform or Snakeform but what does Stirpicore mean?

Finally, for now, in Brandan Earthshaker's entry Marco has the earthshakers powered by "pupe infuocate" which seems to translate to fiery doll! is this correct?

Regards
Mortis
Last edited by Mortis on Mon May 11, 2009 4:06 pm, edited 2 times in total.

agathokles
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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by agathokles » Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:40 pm

Mortis wrote: First of all, Marco has an Immortal called Plasmatore from IM3 (unfortunately I don't have any of the Immortal scenarios) is this his correct name (looks Italian to me)? If not what would it be in English?

Another quick one is one of Mazikeen's nicknames namely Stirpicore il Serpentiform, the end which I presume is Serpentform or Snakeform but what does Stirpicore mean?

Finally, for now, in Brandan Earthshaker's entry Marco has the earthshakers powered by "pupe infuocate" which seems to translate to fiery doll! is this correct?

Regards
Mortis
Plasmatore is Shaper.
Serpentiforme means "having the shape of a snake". Stirpicore is a word Marco made up, since it doesn't show up in Google except as associated with Mazikeen.
"Pupa" means doll, but also pupa or chrysalis as in the development stage of an insect. I think this is what Marco meant here. You can translate pupa infuocata as Fire larva or Fire pupa or something like that, as "infuocata" is simply the adjective we would use to translate "fire" when used as an adjective.

GP

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by LoZompatore » Mon Sep 29, 2008 9:40 am

Marco has the earthshakers powered by "pupe infuocate" which seems to translate to fiery doll! is this correct?
This sentence was inspired by the article Bruce Heard wrote about Snartapolis. You can find it on the Vaults here: http://pandius.com/snart.html

This is the explicit quote Marco used as an ispiration:

Much has happened during their long and rich history. Like many other Vulcanian gnomes, they did discover the secret of the volcanoes and their fire elemental pupae. Eventually they learned how to build their first earthshaker. With the many slaves they had captured, they transformed it into one truly gigantic machine upon which rests their mighty capital of Snartapolis.

I suggest avoinding a double translation and identify "pupe infuocate" = "fire elemental pupae" ;)

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by Mortis » Tue Sep 30, 2008 11:17 am

Thanks for your help guys, there's a few more at the end of this post. :)

I tentively had Stirpicore as Bloodheart but I might leave it as the original.

I definately missed that reference in Bruce's article - I changed Brandan to reflect that (He's nearly done).

Help List
gnoseologica
gammariana
berretto frigio (pileo) - Saturnius's symbol

Regards
Mortis

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by agathokles » Tue Sep 30, 2008 1:03 pm

gnoseologia means theory of knowledge, epistemology.
The berretto frigio is, well, a Phrygian cap, or pileus. It was made into an artifact in the Master set.

More later,
GP

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by agathokles » Thu Oct 02, 2008 11:29 am

As for "gammariana", I've found the following in an MML post by Chris Cherrington of two years ago.
I actually played a campaign once, where the adventurers brought back different mages from the Deltharian and Gammarian camps. They ended up making several new baronies in Glantri to accommodate their long lost brothers. Some factions did not want more Flaemish descendents, but the use of the phase ships came in real handy during an invasion effort of the Golden Khan.
So, the translation of the entire idiom would be Gammarian phase ship[\i].
I think it refers to one of the other planets of the Alphatian home solar system.

GP

Mortis
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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by Mortis » Fri Oct 03, 2008 11:11 am

That's great thanks :)

I have your greatest challenge below - I've tried a couple of times but keep getting stuck :( I'm obviously making a mistake (or three) along the way.

Here it is Raith's personality

Raith è un immortale molto determinato e che non ama i mezzi termini. Dalla sua esperienza ha appreso che nella vita ogni colpa deve essere lavata, ogni debito ripagato affinché la coscienza sia integra e la giustizia regni sovrana. Egli tuttavia non crede che la legge garantisca la giustizia tra i mortali, e per questo agisce con metodi più crudi e spicci, poiché il fine giustifica i mezzi. Non indica mai ai suoi fedeli di comminare punizioni più gravi della colpa, ma di adoperarsi con ogni mezzo affinché chi è colpevole venga giudicato e condannato. La filosofia di Raith è quella della legge del taglione: occhio per occhio, dente per dente.

That's probably the biggest single section left (in this chapter)

Regards
Mortis

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by agathokles » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:08 pm

Mortis wrote:That's great thanks :)

I have your greatest challenge below - I've tried a couple of times but keep getting stuck :( I'm obviously making a mistake (or three) along the way.

Here it is Raith's personality

Raith è un immortale molto determinato e che non ama i mezzi termini. Dalla sua esperienza ha appreso che nella vita ogni colpa deve essere lavata, ogni debito ripagato affinché la coscienza sia integra e la giustizia regni sovrana. Egli tuttavia non crede che la legge garantisca la giustizia tra i mortali, e per questo agisce con metodi più crudi e spicci, poiché il fine giustifica i mezzi. Non indica mai ai suoi fedeli di comminare punizioni più gravi della colpa, ma di adoperarsi con ogni mezzo affinché chi è colpevole venga giudicato e condannato. La filosofia di Raith è quella della legge del taglione: occhio per occhio, dente per dente.

That's probably the biggest single section left (in this chapter)
Here's my translation:

Raith is a very resolute Immortal, and doesn't like compromises. In his experience, in life every sin must be cleansed, every debt repaid for the conscience to be clean and for justice to reign. He, though, does not believe that law ensure justice among mortals, so he acts with decisive and quick methods, as in his opinion, the end justifies the means. He never tells his faithful to impose penalties greater than the sin, but to use all means to ensure that the guilty be tried and sentenced. The philosophy of Raith is that of mirror punishment: eye for eye, tooth for tooth.

Hope it helps,
GP
Last edited by agathokles on Fri Oct 03, 2008 4:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

LoZompatore
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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by LoZompatore » Fri Oct 03, 2008 3:09 pm

And here is mine: it is not very literal, but maybe it helps: ;)

Raith is a very determined Immortal who does not like half measures. To his experience he learnt that any guilt must be cleansed and any debt must be paid off so to have an upright conscience and to let justice triumph. Nevertheless, he does not believe that law is enough to grant justice among the mortals, and so he acts using faster and harsher methods, because he believes that the end justifies the means. He does never suggest to his followers to assign a punishment greater than the fault, instead he furthers them to do their best to bring guilty people to a trial and a sentence. Raith's philosophy is very similar to the tallion law: an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.
Last edited by LoZompatore on Tue Oct 07, 2008 1:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by TraverseTravis » Sat Oct 04, 2008 9:42 pm

Mortis wrote: Raith è un immortale molto determinato e che non ama i mezzi termini. Dalla sua esperienza ha appreso che nella vita ogni colpa deve essere lavata, ogni debito ripagato affinché la coscienza sia integra e la giustizia regni sovrana. Egli tuttavia non crede che la legge garantisca la giustizia tra i mortali, e per questo agisce con metodi più crudi e spicci, poiché il fine giustifica i mezzi. Non indica mai ai suoi fedeli di comminare punizioni più gravi della colpa, ma di adoperarsi con ogni mezzo affinché chi è colpevole venga giudicato e condannato. La filosofia di Raith è quella della legge del taglione: occhio per occhio, dente per dente.
I don't know where you guys learned your Italian. I expect a greater fidelity in translation from people who claim to be "native Italians". Frankly, the beautiful language of Dante deserves better.

But not to fret, I humbly offer my own rendition. (Please note that some less educated readers may quibble about my lofty diction -- all I can say is that one of the burdens of being an artiste is that one becomes a target for the jealousy of lesser poetasters.)

So without further adieu:

Raith, he's one immortal, molten, determined, and chez, non-lovable, and middling terminator. All of such experienced oppressors key in null lives in which Uni (the Unicorn) is culpable and deviant, yessir! lavoratory! Uni debates whether to repaginate toward the finches of conscience -- see how integral his juiciest reign sovereigns? Eh? Tooty-frooty is incredible, if the key of the leg guarantees the juiciest try of the mortals, he (on a quest) agonizes with mighty "phews!", crude and spicy, and piquant and fine justication in the mezzanine. No indication of my eye, so fetters of communists punish pews, graves of the culpable ones, and the mother of the Persian with Uni's middle finch, which keyed into the coal-pulverized vein, which he adjudicated and condemned. The philosophy of Raith is quelled by the leg of a talon: Pinocchio is Pinocchio, dentures are dentures.

I'm pretty sure I've done a professional-quality translation, but no doubt some may nitpick. If anyone has any suggestions for improvement (unlikely as that may be), I challenge them to respond, and I will consider them.

Ciao! (That's Italian for "chow" or "food" in case you didn't know!)
Travis

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by agathokles » Sun Oct 05, 2008 12:43 pm

RTOFL! :lol:

GP

LoZompatore
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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by LoZompatore » Mon Oct 06, 2008 10:15 am

Oh, my! How could have I missed the reference to Pinocchio in my translation? Shame on me! Shame on me! :cry:

:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by Mortis » Tue Oct 07, 2008 9:38 am

Thanks guys, let's see if I can combine all three efforts :)

Regards
Mortis

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by Mortis » Fri Nov 21, 2008 12:44 pm

Hi chaps

another one for you - atteoni

it would appear to be a fey or woodland creature.

Here's the almost completely translated sentence.

Ordana is still honoured by the sylvan creatures that inhabit the endless evergreen forests that cover nearly all the Vulcanian peninsula (for the most part dryads, fauns, treants and atteoni).

Regards
Mortis

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by agathokles » Fri Nov 21, 2008 10:38 pm

Mortis wrote: another one for you - atteoni
This one is easy (well, at least for us): Actaeons -- the stag-headed woodland beings from the Master Set.

GP

Mortis
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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by Mortis » Tue Nov 25, 2008 11:13 am

Cheers - not too likely to turn up in dictionaries or online translation sites, however :D

Regards
Mortis

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by agathokles » Tue Nov 25, 2008 5:02 pm

Mortis wrote:Cheers - not too likely to turn up in dictionaries or online translation sites, however :D
Of course, it's not likely at all. For this kind of words it's sometimes easier to rely on Wikipedia, e.g.:
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atteone
...and you can get translations to many (though often random) languages ;)

GP

Mortis
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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by Mortis » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:38 am

If I could impose upon you once again.

This is the last sentence in note 2 of the Minaea entry - it looks to be staight forward but my attempts got a bit mangled. :)

Anyway here it is

Ne deriva che la politica estera minaeana risulti aggressiva e dispotica per i vicini bellissariani e alphatiani che ne fanno le spese, e di certo il sovrano di Minaea non si prodiga per evitare che questo accada.

It obviously concerns the Alphatians, Bellissarians and Minaea's foreign policies. (I think)

Regards
Mortis

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by LoZompatore » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:51 am

My translation (not very close to the original, but keeping the meaning of the whole thing):

"As a consequence, Minaea keeps an aggressive and dominant politic towards its Alphatian and Bellissarian neighbours - who largely suffer it. For sure the King of Minaea does not act in order to prevent those bullyings."

Maybe Agathokles or somebody else can give a better translation than mine ;)

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by agathokles » Tue Dec 02, 2008 11:52 am

Mortis wrote: Ne deriva che la politica estera minaeana risulti aggressiva e dispotica per i vicini bellissariani e alphatiani che ne fanno le spese, e di certo il sovrano di Minaea non si prodiga per evitare che questo accada.
Therefore, the Minaean foreign policy appears aggressive and despotic to their Bellissarian and Alphatian neighbour -- and the Minaean king does nothing to avoid it.

GP

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by Mortis » Fri Dec 05, 2008 11:42 am

Thanks for the input chaps.

Combining both, mixing them up and adding my own special seasoning :) how about

Therefore, Minaea pursues an aggressive and despotic foreign policy, which the Minaean king does nothing to prevent, towards its Bellissarian and Alphatian neighbours - who largely put up with it.

Regards
Mortis

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by Mortis » Fri Dec 05, 2008 1:24 pm

To finish Chapter 6 here are the last few issues with the Merry Pirates.

The bits in bold are where the main issues are.

Note 1.
(che è cosa passeggera e infida)

Note 2.
Quelli che invece pregano gli immortali, lo fanno nella maggior parte dei casi

Note 3.
Esistono seguaci di Protius, Crakkak invece tra le creature acquatiche che vivono nell’Oceano Atlassano

Note 4.
e chiunque dovesse violarlo sa bene che l’intera compagnia della Mery Pirates non gli darebbe mai pace fino a che non fosse stato catturato, scotennato e torturato a dovere prima di darlo in pasto ai pescecani.

Last bit 'fed to the fishes'?

Regards
Mortis

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by agathokles » Fri Dec 05, 2008 3:33 pm

Mortis wrote: Note 1.
(che è cosa passeggera e infida)
Which is a transient and treacherous thing.

"Treacherous" is probably not the best word here -- the idea is that life is uncertain and mutable.
Note 2.
Quelli che invece pregano gli immortali, lo fanno nella maggior parte dei casi
lo fanno == do so

So: Those who pray Immortals do so mostly to call for help in extreme danger, or to invoke a blessing before a dangerous undertaking.
Note 3.
Esistono seguaci di Protius, Crakkak invece tra le creature acquatiche che vivono nell’Oceano Atlassano
Here there seems to be a small mistake in the Italian text -- I suppose there is an "e" between Protius and Crakkak rather than a comma.
It means: on the other hand, there are followers of Protius and Crakkak among the aquatic creatures who live in the Atlass Ocean.
Note 4.
e chiunque dovesse violarlo sa bene che l’intera compagnia della Mery Pirates non gli darebbe mai pace fino a che non fosse stato catturato, scotennato e torturato a dovere prima di darlo in pasto ai pescecani.

Last bit 'fed to the fishes'?
And whoever violated it (the compact mentioned before) knows that the entire fellowship of the Merry Pirates would never give him respite until he was captured, flayed, and tortured properly before being fed to the fishes (literally, to the sharks).

G.

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by Mortis » Tue Dec 09, 2008 11:50 am

Cheers for all the help.
agathokles wrote:Which is a transient and treacherous thing.
I've used undependable (at least for now)

Regards
Mortis

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Re: HELP needed from our native Italians

Post by Mortis » Mon May 11, 2009 3:27 pm

I've go another one for you chaps.

Here's the original (from the Heldannic Order section of Capter 4)

Essi considerano le antiche storie che narravano di come i primi conquistatori hattiani scorazzassero nell’Heldann dettando legge a proprio piacimento sui nativi come il vero modello di vita e il destino di tutti i Cavalieri Heldannici.

And here's what I've got so far.

They consider the ancient stories that tell of the first Hattian conquerors scorazzassero in Heldann dictating laws of their liking on the natives as the true model of life and destiny of all the Heldannic Knights.

Two questions
1. Is what I've got accurate?
2. How to translate scorazzassero?

Regards
Gary

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