Stone Shape --> Metal Shape?

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Stone Shape --> Metal Shape?

Postby Angelika Tatsu » Thu Feb 02, 2017 5:44 pm

This just hit as an idea right now. Take the concept of the spell stone shape and allow it to work on metal. How high of a spell level bump should this require to be balanced?
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Re: Stone Shape --> Metal Shape?

Postby Sock Puppet » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:14 pm

I'm not sure I'd want to allow for such a spell. A core part of stone shape is that it fails against worked stone. Only natural rough stone is a valid target. There isn't really such a thing as uncorked metal.

If I had to put it somewhere though maybe plus two levels on stone shape would be my first guess.
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Re: Stone Shape --> Metal Shape?

Postby Michael Silverbane » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:46 pm

Stone Shape
Transmutation [Earth]
Level: Clr 3, Drd 3, Earth 3, Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S, M/DF
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Touch
Target: Stone or stone object touched, up to 10 cu. ft. + 1 cu. ft./level
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No
You can form an existing piece of stone into any shape that suits your purpose. While it’s possible to make crude coffers, doors, and so forth with stone shape, fine detail isn’t possible. There is a 30% chance that any shape including moving parts simply doesn’t work.
Arcane Material Component: Soft clay, which must be worked into roughly the desired shape of the stone object and then touched to the stone while the verbal component is uttered.


Personally, I would make it clr 6, drd 6, sor/wiz 7.
Also, I would remove the restriction about working parts, and require a craft check for any sort of intricate designs...
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Re: Stone Shape --> Metal Shape?

Postby Big Mac » Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:47 pm

Sock Puppet wrote:I'm not sure I'd want to allow for such a spell. A core part of stone shape is that it fails against worked stone. Only natural rough stone is a valid target.


That doesn't seem to be the case in the 3.5 SRD:
Stone Shape page on Hypertext d20 SRD wrote:Stone or stone object touched, up to 10 cu. ft. + 1 cu. ft./level


Were you looking at the 3.0 SRD? :?

Sock Puppet wrote:There isn't really such a thing as uncorked metal.


Unworked metal is ore, which is really the same thing as stone. I would expect the normal Stone Shape spell to work on metal ore

Sock Puppet wrote:If I had to put it somewhere though maybe plus two levels on stone shape would be my first guess.


Lets have a think. People are taking metal ore, breaking it down into bits and then melting it and refining it. If that process is concentrating something, perhaps it would be concentrating the amount of magic needed to shape the metal.

The material component might need to change from clay to something else (maybe lead would be a good replacement component).

You might even want to reduce the volume of material that is targeted, to take into account that the metal has been concentrated from the ore level to the smelted version.
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Re: Stone Shape --> Metal Shape?

Postby Angelika Tatsu » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:47 pm

Michael Silverbane wrote:Personally, I would make it clr 6, drd 6, sor/wiz 7.
Also, I would remove the restriction about working parts, and require a craft check for any sort of intricate designs...
Fabricate spell wrote:You must make an appropriate Craft check to fabricate articles requiring a high degree of craftsmanship.
I would say that working parts would be inclusive to a high degree of craftsmanship. Bumping up to the level you suggest might be a good idea if one wants to bypass making the craft check. Since that is not the design goal for this new spell, even though it is going to be of a higher level than fabricate, I don't think it should be included.

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Big Mac wrote:You might even want to reduce the volume of material that is targeted, to take into account that the metal has been concentrated from the ore level to the smelted version.
Not a bad idea.

Fabricate spell wrote:If you work with a mineral, the target is reduced to 1 cubic foot per level instead of 10 cubic feet.
So lets make it a little better than Fabricate, considering it is going to be a higher level spell.

Stone Shape - Target: Stone or stone object touched, up to 10 cu. ft. + 1 cu. ft./level
Metal Shape - Target: Metal or meal object touched, up to 5 cu. ft. + 1/2 cu. ft./level

Stone Shape - Arcane Material Component: Soft clay, which must be worked into roughly the desired shape of the stone object and then touched to the stone while the verbal component is uttered.
Metal Shape - Arcane Material Component: A miniature replica of the object to the metal will be shaped into and touched to the metal while the verbal component is uttered.

I am thinking that only a one spell level bump is necessary for these changes.

What do you think?
Last edited by Angelika Tatsu on Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Stone Shape --> Metal Shape?

Postby Ashtagon » Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:49 pm

Okay, that was a bit surprising. I re-read all my sources, and in no edition does stone shape by RAW require unworked (as opposed to worked) stone as a valid target. Now I'm wondering where I heard that line from.
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Re: Stone Shape --> Metal Shape?

Postby Michael Silverbane » Tue Feb 07, 2017 1:06 pm

Ashtagon wrote:Okay, that was a bit surprising. I re-read all my sources, and in no edition does stone shape by RAW require unworked (as opposed to worked) stone as a valid target. Now I'm wondering where I heard that line from.


Probably from transmute rock to mud

This spell turns natural, uncut or unworked rock of any sort into an equal volume of mud.
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Re: Stone Shape --> Metal Shape?

Postby Big Mac » Tue Feb 28, 2017 3:39 pm

A helpful person, called Leon, pointed out that there is a Shape Metal spell in Races of Faerûn. It's on page 191.

It's a 4th Level spell for Clerics and a 5th Level spell for Sorcerers and Wizards.
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