Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

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Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby LordJuss » Fri Nov 07, 2008 2:54 pm

Hiya,

I thought I'd break this conversation out from the main Expansion Series thread as most of the info there was about the first GazXF. Thanegioth seems to be a popular venue (and I can see why) so I thought I'd try to starts collating some of the info we have thus far with an eye towards working out a structure for the final Gaz.

As a first step it seems sensible to list all the canon sources that deal with the region. We can then synthesize the information from them and work out what new islands (including those developed over the years) we want.

As a first pass...

X1 The Isle of Dread
X7 The War Rafts of Kron
X8 Drums on Fire Mountain
XSOLO Lathan's Gold (I don't own this module so I have no idea what's in it)
GAZ 4 Ierendi
Gaz 9 Minrothad
PC3 The Sea People
PWA1-3

So what other canon sources have I missed that may have useful info?

Cheers,

LJ.
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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby Havard » Fri Nov 07, 2008 3:22 pm

NM2: Treasure of Crocodile Island is only available in Norwegian language, but does seem to be TSR approved somehow, and set somewhere in the Archipelago. It would be cool if you were to make a reference to it. I can provide you with maps and info if you are interested.

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby Seer of Yhog » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:07 pm

Havard,

How long is this module? Would it be at all possible to work out a translation? If there's new info, I think the community could really benefit from this.

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby Havard » Sat Nov 08, 2008 4:24 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:How long is this module? Would it be at all possible to work out a translation? If there's new info, I think the community could really benefit from this.


I'll see what I can do :)

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby maddog » Mon Nov 10, 2008 2:30 pm

LordJuss wrote:Hiya,
So what other canon sources have I missed that may have useful info?


Although we could probably argue over the "canoness" of it, I would add Paizo's Savage Tide Adventure Path to the list. It was in Dungeon magazine awhile back.

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby Havard » Mon Nov 10, 2008 3:47 pm

maddog wrote:Although we could probably argue over the "canoness" of it, I would add Paizo's Savage Tide Adventure Path to the list. It was in Dungeon magazine awhile back.


I agree. It needs to be mentioned in some way or other.

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby LordJuss » Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:56 pm

maddog wrote:Although we could probably argue over the "canoness" of it, I would add Paizo's Savage Tide Adventure Path to the list. It was in Dungeon magazine awhile back.


Sounds interesting. What's in it?

On another front, I've been looking at maps and doing a little research. Apart from the tiny atolls shown in PC3 (and they really are tiny!) the best map of the sea between Thanegioth and Ierendi/Minrothad is from X1. Apart from the archepelago, it shows 10 islands on a 24 m/hex scale. As far as I can tell all 10 of these are fleshed out in XSOLO (to a greater or lesser extent). The only canon islands that seem to be missing from that map are Teki-Nura-Ria (X8) and the burning mountain (XSOLO) which is presumably quite small.

Given X1 covers the isle of dread, we only need completely new information for the islands of the archepelago itself. The rest will simply be more information based on the XSOLO canon. Sound fair?

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby LoZompatore » Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:09 pm

About official sources I would also add these:

- TM1 and TM2 trail map have tables including a few lines about the Thanegiot Archipelago, showing the (supposed) total human population and other bits of info;
- AC10 "Bestiary of dragons and giants" has a couple of adventures ("The isle of the storm giants" and "Thyralax and the ruby amulet") that could easily be set in the Thanegiot Archipelago or in the Sea of Dread;
- Dungeon Magazine #247 (article "Rakasta of Mystara"): it is mentioned a rakasta subspecies who lives also on the Thanegiot archipelago (it likely specifies the subspecies of rakasta met in X1 module);
- X10: In the Ierendi part of the diplomatic missions at the beginning of the module there is the description of the Roc Island, somewhere south of the Ierendi Archipelago;

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby Havard » Wed Nov 12, 2008 2:26 pm

Seer of Yhog wrote:How long is this module? Would it be at all possible to work out a translation? If there's new info, I think the community could really benefit from this.


Okay, looking at this module, it is bigger than I thought. I will try to get a translation done, but its going to take some time. I might post some more extensive summaries first to give you guys something to work with before a complete translation of NM2 is done. Would be fun to get both NM1 and NM2 translated. Im still trying to figure out if they ever did an NM3, but so far it looks like two modules were all they got published.

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby LordJuss » Wed Nov 12, 2008 7:07 pm

Thanks for all the new canon input. Very helpful.

To help with the process I thought I'd put a map together of the area of interest so we know which isles we're talking about as we go (thanks as usual to Thorf for providing the original).

Image

I've labelled up the ones from XSOLO and a few others that aren't on this map (my positioning's off but it only needs to be rough at this stage).

I've also numbered the islands on the archepelago.

I've picked up the rough idea for the XSOLO islands but I haven't got much clue what the lost temple on Spider Island is about or what happens at Three Sisters Keys. Could someone who has the module let me know?

Cheers,

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby maddog » Wed Nov 12, 2008 11:55 pm

LordJuss wrote:
maddog wrote:Although we could probably argue over the "canoness" of it, I would add Paizo's Savage Tide Adventure Path to the list. It was in Dungeon magazine awhile back.


Sounds interesting. What's in it?


That's a hard question to answer. In the orginal X1 the PCs go to the island in search of the black pearl of Rory Barbarosa but in the Paizo adventure path, they travel there to stop Demogorgon from using the black pearl to destroy the world.

I made this map for the campaign which is based off of the Paizo information as presented in Dungeon.

http://pandius.com/iod.png

The Isle of Dread section of the campaign begins with Dungeon #142, Here There Be Monsters, where the PCs are shipwrecked (wreck of the Sea Wyvern on the map) on the coast of the IoD and must travel overland to the colony of Farshore which is on an island just south of Mora. In Dungeon #143, Tides of Dread, the party learns that Farshore is going to be attacked by the Crimson Fleet (Greyhawk CE pirates) and must prepare for the coming attack as well as gain allies such as the native islanders and the phanaton. A short "gazetteer" of the IoD is included on pages 30-36. Dungeon #144, has the PCs travel to the northern part of the island and venture deep underground in Lightless Depths. This adventure didn't really fit in the campaign IMO and can simply be skipped over. Dungeon #145, City of Broken Idols takes the PCs to the Central Plateau and through a modified version of the same dungeon that appears in the original IoD to stop the production of the "Shadow Pearls" that can destroy the world. This is the end of the adventures on the IoD but not the campaign. The PCs continue after the Crimson Fleet in Dungeon #145, Serpents of Scuttlecove. This module takes the PCs to the heart of the Fleet's base to destroy it's power in the region by killing Cold Captain Wyther. This issue also has a short gazetteer covering Scuttlecove and the Island of Sekorvia.

In the modules after Serpents of Scuttlecove, the PCs go after Demogorgon which to me is "jumping the shark" so I'm going to either end my campaign after Serpents or move it to other adventures on the Prime Material plane.

If you decide to include Scuttlecove, the Island of Sekorvia could be #2 or #9 but I would go with #9 myself as the IoD already has a small group of pirates from Rat's End on Emerald Island (or area #8 on the orginal IoD map). Sekorvia is described as, "a volcanic tropical island dominated by tangled jungles and stinking salt marshes. Barely 40 miles across at its widest point, a jagged spine of mountains (including no less than three active volcanoes) runs down its length. While a few demented hermits and feral folk dwell in lonely huts and tiny thorps, and the Crimson Fleet maintains a hidden stronghold several miles to the northwest of the city, the majority of humanoid life on the island dwells in Scuttlecove" (Dungeon #145, 77).

Scuttlecove "is a diseased, filthy pit of salty depression" (Dungeon #145, 78). This is a small port city of CE pirates that would cut your throat for a few gold pieces and let your body lay in the street. No one would think anything of it in Scuttlecove.

That about covers it. :)
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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby OldDawg » Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:27 am

A question, LordJuss.

are you planning for this to be a GazF product or one under your own brand/no brand?

Either way is cool, and personal initiative is great and applauded. I want folks bringing their "book" projects here for group work. But if the intent is that it's "GazF official" vs. GazF Compatible [i.e. "Gaz XF1" vs "Gaz LJX1"], there are some constraints and directions that I'd need to impose (e.g. the Dragon's Reef and ocean depth contours would be taken from X6 and X7 with adjustments to the southern limits of the Sunlit Sea).

Which way would you like to proceed?

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby LordJuss » Thu Nov 13, 2008 10:42 am

Hiya OldDawg,

My intention was for this to come under the GazF line. I realise how busy you are so I thought I'd help get the information together in some sensible format then put it in your direction for re-editing (much as we did with Heldann).

Happy to work within whatever constraints you want.

Cheers,

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Re: The Expansion Series

Postby OldDawg » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:00 am

LordJuss wrote:My intention was for this to come under the GazF line. I realise how busy you are so I thought I'd help get the information together in some sensible format then put it in your direction for re-editing (much as we did with Heldann).


Sounds good to me. I pulled over the old Expansion posts that dealt with TA/SoD, but alas they got merged at the top. I'll clean it up after we collate the information.

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Re: The Expansion Series

Postby OldDawg » Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:14 am

HERE IS THE ROUGH COLLATION OF THINGS FROM THE OLDER THREAD [To be refined] - OD

[Cab]
Happy to offer a more complete writeup of the Arachne culture for Dread, see:

http://pandius.com/arachne.html
http://pandius.com/arachneh.html
http://pandius.com/ctyheart.html

[Geoff]
I would also be happy to contribute what I can to the Isles of Dread. Would you consider James Mishler's Nueva Ispanola material, or perhaps some of the other things I've written?


[Me]
It's funny; The Thanegioth Archipelago originally was supposed to be the third area to get the Gazetteer treatment.
Everything got reordered after I settled on thematic-regional groupings.

for the XF1 product, I definitely want to collate all of the existing Sea of Dread information - this includes the other islands and features of the SoD. Of course, this does not mean final adoption. Noted problem areas include elves and Nueva Ispanola. I would prefer the islands be a little less familiar to Known Worlders - they know some of the isles are out there, but they don't have good maps and positionings. I am leaning towards "Thanegioth" being an elvish-derived word (< Thanegia + oth (non-elven)), as per the linguistic rules developed for the Idrisian Sphere.


Thematically, I'd really like to make the setting literary - Verne, Swift, etc. - as well as cinematic. One island the domain of a Dr. Moreau-like figure working on lycanthropy/hybrids, the IoD as our standard Kong Island, somewhere the Dance of the Seven Dwarves, etc.

Obviously, finishing Norwold - including the central regions - is a higher priority at the moment for me, so this will definitely require someone else to step up and take charge.

Cab, if you could synthesize the Arachne information, that would be good.

[Havard]
Also, it would be pretty cool if you included a reference to NM2: Treasure of Crocodile Island which features a tiny island somewhere in the Thanegioth Archipelago.

[Hugin]
This would certainly be my preference as well. The name Sea of Dread has no meaning if it does not indeed fill a sailor's soul with dread! Mystery and the unknown are the basic elements of dread. That's why we fear the dark; we don't know what may be in it!

[Geoff]
Agreed - Lathan's Gold is an excellent source. We should also check out War Rafts of Kron and Drums of Fire Mountain, too. I think the thematic approach is a good way to go, but we should take care to ensure it all fits together well; otherwise, the setting will look like a cartoonish mish-mash that's been glued together...

Captain: "Okay, to the west is the Isle of Giant Monsters, and a little further away is the Island of Cursed Cannibals Living Amongst Ruins of a Great Civilisation, and beyond that is the Isle of Willing Wenches Who Guard a Dark Secret."

First Mate: "Cap'n, I say we skip the first two islands and go straight to the wenches!"

*ragged cheer from the crew*

Midshipman: "Sir, can't we sail east to Shadow-Cloaked Island of Reclusive Sorcerers instead?"

*sound of midshipman being tossed overboard*

FWIW, I've pulled up an old ASCII map developed by Daniel Boese (anyone else remember him?) from the Vaults. I know I'm dating myself here, but I remember when he first posted this to the MML.

Anyhow, for those who don't have Lathan's Gold, it presents some useful nuggets. You know, the more I think about this, the more I'd like to contribute. Given the work on Kaarjala, you'd think I would know better. :oops:

[Me]
Now we know why so little is known about the Archipelago - no one ever leaves

The Willing Wenches of Westwick - putting the T&A in the TA since 970 AC

[It's all fun and games, till somebody cites you. You do realize, of course, that this is exactly how Prince Joffa and poor Captain Solomaih came to be?]

Seriously, though, the Western Alliance was inspired by Shakespeare's histories and comedies, Chaucer's Canterbury Tales, English folk and fairy tales, and some modern child-lit giant stories. I think it successfully blended them without turning silly.

The Sea of Dread and Thanegioth Archipelago are a huge stage - enough for a variety of different tales to transpire.


(via the ASCII link)
our free islands in the sea include


Termite Atoll (Salt water termites attack any ships at anchor.
Insect Island (Watch your rations: worms and beetles will infest them.)
Three Sisters Keys (rumoured to be magical, nobody has ever found anything here... except those with a talking parrot called Paco... )
No Name Island (Little more than a sand bar that has inedible plants growing on it.)
Spider Isle (An ancient building surrounded by eight standing pillars rests in the centre of the island. The roof of the building is shaped like the body of a spider. This is the Lost Temple of Araknee.)
Skeleton Key (Thousands of bones litter the ground near the centre of the island. This is the battlesite of the Aquapopulus War, a legendary war against the merpeople.)
Pirate Rock ("As you dig up roots while harvesting rations, you discover d100 gold pieces. This gold was buried here by pirates, and is in the form of coins.)
Burning Mountain (A mountain that spouts dark, grey clouds, ash and smoke, boulders, red lava, all deadly; and also rivulets of raw gold, if you survive to find them.)

The Burning Mountain was seen in X7 (I think) but not X1.

In addition to the Isle of Dread, there are nine other islands visible at 24mph in the eastern archipelago.

Where were the various locales like Nueva Ispanola, and Geoff's Dark Worshippers supposed to be?


[Zendrolion]
I think X1's map scale should be adjusted to reflect the size of the Isle of Dread shown in the 24-miles maps of the KW.

[Geoff]
I know that Neuva Ispanola was supposed to be the crescent-shaped island at the eastern end - here's the map, from Tome of Mystara.

The OB-worshipping troglodytes live on Bararna Island (named after an unfortunate explorer - the backstory can be put together later), which I intended to be the long island due east of the Isle of Dread.

[metal]
I agree the 6mph map and the 24mph map just don't jibe.

I think Thorf's map here fixes this problem-
http://pandius.com/isle-of-dread-4.png


[Thorf]
It was actually Mark Howard who discovered this little mapping error. The original thread is here. Basically, we decided to change the scale of the map from 6 miles per hex (mentioned in X1) to 4 miles per hex (which fits with the 24 mile per hex map).

[Geoff]
I've pulled this info from one of the threads in the mapping section, which may be relevant to any work on Thanegioth:

About Teki-nura-ria, the island's history is quite well told by X8. Most of the smaller (i.e. numbered on the map) come from PC3 and are simply volcanic atholls. The islands described in GAZ8 have some details more. Nameless Island (aka Island of Dried Skins) instead it's told in PC3 to host a timely migration of shark-kins (IIRC) and is considered sacred ground.

On of the most interesting is Skeletons' Key, which in XSOLO1 is told to have been the site of a battle within the Aquapopulus War: mermen butchered a garrison of human soldiers defending the island. On the Italian MMB we thought this could be the result of an early attempt by Ierendi and/or Minrothad to use these islands as trading posts toward Davania - effectively countered by the merrows' Twaelar Empire.
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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby LordJuss » Fri Nov 14, 2008 2:40 pm

Thanks OldDawg. Useful to get all that info together.

I agree with your core idea that the area should be relatively unknown. A sort of film/book 'edge of the map' feel sounds good.

In terms of approach, my plan (as much as there is one) is to collate all the canon stuff first, then discuss what older fan material we want to keep and then fill in areas of the map that aren't covered.

I do have various thoughts on the fan stuff on Pandius but I'm going to leave that discussion until the canon info is roughly sorted.

So...

I've had a read of Gaz 4 and Gaz 9 and can't really find anything particuarly relevant to the area other than the geological history. For society and politics they concentrate on the sunlit sea. If anyone has spotted some info I've missed in there please let me know.

PC3 however is somewhat better. There is a good map showing the depths of the whole region and a short entry on Twaelar (the Merrow Empire in Thanegioth) that will need fleshing out. The history section is also pretty good. I don't think there's much more though.

I'll be looking at X1, X7 and X8 shortly and I think the bulk of the material will be in there. Does anyone know whether there's anything helpful in the Almanacs?

Still need some guidance on the islands in XSOLO from someone who has a copy. I'm not sure how much info is in there, but a few lines describing each island and what can be found there would be handy (beyond the basic one that's laid out on Pandius).

Regarding the Savage Tide adventure path, I think it's great! How much problem do we run into through it being Greyhawk based? Is there a copyright issue here? Personally I think we should definitely include Scuttlecove. I think the Crimson Fleet is a great idea too and fits nicely with an area that inspired dread in those who come near it.

Cheers,

LJ.
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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby Andaire » Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:19 pm

In the almanacs, there is a war between the Twaelar and Thyatis. I don't remember if there is an actual geo entry though.
Also, I think one of the Milenian city-states whose name escapes me at the moment colonized some islands north of Davania, called Mykonos and maybe another one. I don't remember the exact placement; it might be closer to the Davanian coast than the Thanegioth.
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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby Seer of Yhog » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:40 pm

The city-state that founded the colony was Kastelios. We never specified the location - we only said the Kastelian vessels "dropped anchor at one of the westernmost islands of the Thanegioth Archipelago". Mykonos is a small island, as shown on the map I created for the MA, so it could be added to the archipelago without changing the look of the setting at all (three 8-mile hexes could contain it):

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby OldDawg » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:09 am

LJ,

I'd like you to post up a series of initially blank (or merely titled) posts in the thread to serve as a means of organizing information. That way, both you and I can edit the thread's end-product.

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby LordJuss » Sat Nov 15, 2008 10:23 am

Hi OD,

OK, that can be done.

Not certain how many you want. How do you feel about this for a set of posts:

GazXF1 Sea of Dread: XSOLO Islands
GazXF1 Sea of Dread: Teki-Nura-Ria and environs
GazXF1 Sea of Dread: Twaelar
GazXF1 Sea of Dread: The Isle of Dread
GazXF1 Sea of Dread: Thanegioth Archepelago
GazXF1 Sea of Dread: Fan canon discussion

We can create more for the various fan canon areas as we establish whether to include them or not.

Care to amend the list?

Cheers,

LJ.
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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby Seer of Yhog » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:13 pm

LJ,

This looks good - if no one minds I'll start pulling info from X8.

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby Seer of Yhog » Sat Nov 15, 2008 4:16 pm

LordJuss wrote:Care to amend the list?


I think this is good as a start. I'll share my info on Mykonos and Bararna Island, and the M'kar, and drop it into the fan section.
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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby LordJuss » Sun Nov 16, 2008 12:01 pm

OK, I've set up the initial threads. If anyone thinks we need more to cover other regions not yet mentioned (Kron perhaps?) then either set it using the same convention or float the idea here.

Cheers,

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby Havard » Mon Nov 17, 2008 5:00 pm

I just started a new thread doing some translation work on NM2 over here.

I also posted a map of Crocodile Island which can be found here.

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Re: Gaz XF1 The Islands of Dread - collating information

Postby LordJuss » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:58 am

Hi,

I've had a little look at X7. Most of the content is dealt with in PC3 apart from Kron itself (although the depth map is good). I've been envisaging Gaz XF1 as dealing with the Sea of Dread and not the sunlit sea but it seems fair to include something on Kron if people think we should. So, any opinions?

While we're about it, has anyone any thoughts on how to deal with the mismatch between X7 and PC3 as regards Suthus being a city of Tritons vs Shark-Kin?

Cheers,

LJ.
LordJuss
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