GazH Timeline (working thread)

Continuing the Gazetteer and Module Tradition Beyond the Known World.

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GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:33 pm

Ok, I'm open to suggestions, but I think a good way to get this started would be to choose a time period chunk (ex: Taymora's Sinking BC 2000 - BC 1700) and then start posting some straw man timelines for discussion (just as we've done for The BC 1700s Catastrophes thread.

Anyone posting a time period should be responsible for keeping that post up to date. I'll reserve the first post for keeping an index of each of the time periods.

BC 6000 to BC 3100: Dawn of Time Outline
BC 3000: Great Rain of Fire Outline, Full References
BC 2000 to BC 1700: The Sinking of Taymora Outline, Full References, Condensed for GazH


Historical Overview BC 3000 to BC 1700 Outline
Historical Overview BC 1699 to BC 1009 Outline
Historical Overview BC 1000 to BC 800 Outline
Historical Overview BC 795 to BC 528 Outline
Historical Overview BC 500 to BC 2 Outline
Historical Overview AC 0 to AC 488 Outline
Historical Overview AC 500 to AC 793 Outline
Historical Overview AC 800 to AC 898 Outline
Historical Overview AC 900 to AC 998 Outline


Detailed Discussions:
Elven Migrations
The Belcadiz Origin
Shadow Elf Lineages
Elven Ethnicities: canon sources

The Mordrigswerg

The DA Blackmoor of Mystara

History of Thothia and Aran

[GazH] Ethnography workshop
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Mon Sep 14, 2009 11:36 pm

I am re-posting the following from The BC 1700s Catastrophes
Hmmm... I'm going to try doing this in two posts. The first I'll leave as is and label as "Full References", and the second I'll condense down into something more readable than this (mainly by removing most of the references - but I want to keep the references handy in case we need them again at some point).

BC 2000 to BC 1700: The Sinking of Taymora

BC 2000
  • [circa?/overview]Roughly 1,000 years after survivors of the Azcan state found refuge in the shadow of the great plateau a new age darkness fell upon them. The region that they lived in, which is now the north coast of the Sea of Dread, was geologically unstable. A series of violent tremors caused the plateau to collapse and many of their lands to break away from the continent and drift south. Later, these places became the island chains that are now known as the Kingdom of Ierendi and the Minrothad Guilds. The survivors of the Azcans and Oltecs were reduced almost to barbarism.
    GAZ 14 DM's manual
    [Note: This seems to describe an overview of the period in question. Based on dates further down I would say the overview was from 1750 to 1700, which would place the timing of this event 1250 years after the GRoF - close enough to the 1000 years stated.]
  • [circa?/overview]Series of great elemental upheavals split several large land masses from the main continent. The Taymora civilization is destroyed. Meditor elves are left on the newly made islands in the Sea of Dread (see GAZ9).
    PC3, The Sea People Book, page 42

    [Note: The mention of Meditor elves and the reference to Gaz 9 does it for me. Looking at Gaz9 shows that Meditor Elves weren't mentioned until BC 1700 (an event we have moved to BC 1720 here), so this could imply that this date should be taken as a "circa" date.

BC 1750
  • (Approximate date) Series of great volcanic eruptions and quakes split several large land masses from what is now the Five Shires and the Atruaghin Clans, stranding aboriginal peoples, the Makai, and lizardmen creatures from the Malpheggi Swamp.
    Gaz4 - pg 5
    [Previously BC 1700] Notes: Since this event seems to be inconsistent with other events in Gaz 4, and since Gaz 14 is a later product, I am taking the Gaz 14 timeline to be correct in this case.
  • Cataclysms split land masses and ocean floods create islands; Meditor elves are left on the new-made Isles of Dread.
    Gaz9 - pg 6
    [Previously BC 1700]
  • Geological disasters-volcanic eruptions and earthquakes-splinter off much of the land south of the modern day lands of the Five Shires and the Atruaghin Clans. The plateau under which the surviving Azcans have been living largely collapses, killing many of them and leaving the survivors in a shattered, hostile land.
    Gaz14 - pg 5
  • In 1750 BC, a series of great volcanic eruptions and earthquakes extending eastward from the Burning Waste split several large land masses away from the coast of what is now the Kingdom of Sind, the Atruaghin Clans area, and the Five Shires. Nothing remained of this land but scattered islands (now the Kingdom of Ierendi and the Minrothad Guilds).
    The earthquakes caused the collapse of a plateau to the east of the Great Waste (the predecessor of today's Atruaghin Plateau). This drove some of the surviving human inhabitants out into the desert where game could still be found. Conflicts between the copper-skinned newcomers (descendants of ancient Oltec an Azcan cultures) and the light-skinned nomads of the desert eventually resolved into cooperation and intermarriage as the refugees from the east adopted Urduk ways for themselves.
    This second cataclysm changed the prevalent weather patterns again. After half a century of continued earthquakes, storms and droughts, shifts in prevailing winds and temperatures brought good rainfall and mild waether to the region. The eastern forest spread over the scars of the fallen plateau and along the coast of the Sea of Dread. The desert bloomed. Only the Plain of Fire remained inhospitable. Its porous bedrock, carved by deluges of wind and water, channeled the abundant rainfall underground, leaving little water on the surface.
    CoM, Explorer's Manual, pages 4-5
  • In 1750 BC, the earthquakes that rocked the Sea of Dread drastically changed the Serpent Peninsula. Rising seas flooded most of the central lowlands, forming the Dhiki Namazzi. Suddenly deprived of major cities, countless villages, and their best farmland, the Tanagoro culture collapsed into tribes fighting over the remaining land. Some carved out territories on the newly formed Thanegia Island. Other moved north into the rain forest, slashing and burning forest into farmland as they went.
    CoM, Explorer's Manual, page 35
  • He (Yav) finally found it (the cause of prophetic powers among the people of the Serpent Peninsula) in a crack in the floor of the shallow sea separating the Serpent Peninsula from Thanegia Island. It was an artifact of the Sphere of Time buried long ago to keep it from causing mischief. The earthquake of 1750BC had disturbed its resting place, and successive earthquakes in intervening centuries had carried it closer to Mystara's surface.
    CoM, Explorer's Manual, page 37

BC 1725
  • King Loark raises Great Horde at Urzud and migrates eastward, continuing his Quest for a Blue Knife.
    Gaz10 - pg 4 DM's Book.
  • King Loark raises great hord at Urzud and migrates eastward, continuing his Quest for a Blue Knife.
    Gaz13 - pg 8 DM's Guide
  • King Loark of the humanoids organizes an army of humanoids known as the Great Horde. They move south, into the lands of men and bring savage destruction to these places.
    Gaz14 - pg 5

BC 1722
  • Great Horde ravages Norwold and learns Norse culture.
    Gaz10 - pg 4 DM's Book.

BC 1720
  • Akkila-Khan conquers the southern steppes.
    Gaz10 - pg 4 DM's Book.
  • (Approximate date) Land masses split further, forming 10 islands south of the Five Shires.
    Gaz4 - pg 5
  • Verdier elves build ships and join their cousins in the Sea of Dread.
    Gaz9 - pg 6
  • The land masses split further, forming the Ierendi isles.
    PC3, The Sea People Book, page 42

BC 1711
  • Great Horde reaches pre-khanate Ethengar. Akkila-Khan allies with King Loark against the Ethengarian nomads.
    Gaz10 - pg 4 DM's Book.

BC 1710
  • The Great Horde of humanoids led by King Loark invades the Steppes and enslaves the primitive Ethengars. King Loark's horde is joined by Akkila-Khan's humanoid horde. Together they ravage the Steppes.
    Gaz12 - pg 5

BC 1709
  • Akkila-Khan betrays King Loark in exchange for lands west of the Dol-Anur. Great Horde defeated at the Battle of Chongor, in ancient Ethengar. Goblins flee south. King Loark reaches Broken Lands and settles.
    Gaz10 - pg 4 DM's Book.
  • Akkila-Khan joins with the Ethengars and defeats King Loark at the battle of Chongor. King Loark's Great Horde splinters: the trolls head east, the goblins south, and the rest of the Great Horde is driven out of the steppes into the Broken Lands.
    Gaz12 - pg 5
  • Loark's Great Horde settles in the Broken Lands after ravaging and destroying many human cultures.
    Gaz14 - pg 5

BC 1701
  • Resurgence of faith in Ethengar; Akkila-Khan betrayed by Ethengar allies; retreats from Dol-Anur.
    Gaz10 - pg 4 DM's Book.

BC 1700
  • Local cataclysm rakes Broken Lands and buries the Great Horde. King Loark dies, his horde breaks apart.
    Gaz10 - pg 4 DM's Book.
  • Elves leave Glantri.
    Gaz11 - pg 6
  • Elves in Glantri trigger a cataclysm that has a profound affect on the lands of the steppes. The Land of Black Sand is formed.
    Gaz12 - pg 5
  • Elves find artifact of Blackmoor in the Broken Lands and trigger a cataclysm which buries the Hoard. Loark dies, the remains of the hoard break apart. Elves driven out of Glantri by local cataclysm.
    Gaz13 - pg 8 DM's Guide
  • Glantri elves discover a lost Blackmoor device and detonate it, destroying their nation. The survivors begin a migration deep underground as the blast sends a huge cloud of ash and smoke into the air that does not dissipate for many years.
    Gaz14 - pg 5-6
  • Local cataclysm. The elves disappear and the Broken Lands become unstable.
    Gaz3 - pg 5
  • Giants, trolls, and gnolls are driven south into the Northern Reaches in successive waves of migration.
    Gaz7 - pg 6
  • An event occurs on the outer world which will profoundly affect the course of Azcan civilization, Elves in Glantri discover and accidentally detonate a Blackmoor device, resulting in a minor cataclysm. The survivors hide in the caves beneath Glantri and the Broken lands. Split into tribes, they travel widely; these are the ancestors of the Hollow World's Gentle Folk, Icevale Elves, and the Azcans' mortal Hollow World enemies, the Schattenalfen. A fourth group, led by an elf named Atziann, had no survivors save that king.
    HWR1 - pg 10 Adventurers Book
  • Goblinoids settle in the Yazak Steppes.
    SB - pg 18 book 1 approximate dates
  • This situation did not last. Around 1700 BC the other, earlier elven settlers in Glantri found a strange artifact from the Blackmoor civilization, in the Broken Lands. They tinkered with it, and it exploded cataclysmically. Great, impenetrable clouds of smoke and ash rose into the sky and did not disperse for years. A dreadful rotting plague affected many creatures in the area, with the ancestors of the shadow elves partly affected. When they first felt the explosion and saw the clouds, these elves fled for the caves below out of instinct and racial memory. This instant flight possibly saved them from extinction.
    GAZ 13 DM's manual

Arguments could be made for making changes other than what I've outlined, however these changes leave us with a relatively simple timeline for the catastrophes being composed of 2 events (+1 unrelated event).

BC 2000 - geological activity (earthquakes and volcanic eruptions) in southern Brun increases - this does not split land masses or create islands at this point. The geological activity will continue through BC 1720.
BC 1750 - the first event, created "Big Ierendi"
BC 1720 - the second event, creates all 10 Ierendi isles
BC 1700 - the elven cataclysm - not actually involved in island creating events

EDIT: Modified to include RobJN's, LoZompatore's, and Zendrolion's additions to the timeline.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Tue Sep 15, 2009 12:08 am

BC 2000 to BC 1700: The Sinking of Taymora (GazH Condensed)

BC 2000 - BC 1700 Overview
Roughly 1,000 years after survivors of the Azcan state found refuge in the shadow of the great plateau a new age darkness fell upon them. The region that they lived in, which is now the north coast of the Sea of Dread, was geologically unstable. A series of violent tremors caused the plateau to collapse and many of their lands to break away from the continent and drift south. Later, these places became the island chains that are now known as the Kingdom of Ierendi and the Minrothad Guilds. During this time period the Taymoran civilization rises and falls. The destruction of the landscape leaves many races and cultures fractured including the survivors of the Azcans and Oltecs, the elves of the Sea of Dread, and the survivors of Taymora.

BC 2000: Southern Brun enters into a heightened state of geological activity. Earthquakes intensify and volcanic activity becomes more common.

BC 1750: A series of great volcanic eruptions and earthquakes extending eastward from the Burning Waste split several large land masses away from the coast of what is now the Kingdom of Sind, the Atruaghin Clans area, and the Five Shires. The earthquakes caused the collapse of a plateau to the east of the Great Waste (the predecessor of today's Atruaghin Plateau) and drastically changed the Serpent Peninsula. Rising seas flooded most of the central lowlands, forming the Dhiki Namazzi.

The Makai, lizardmen from the Malpheggi Swamp, and the Meditor elves were left stranded on the newly formed islands (Ierendi and Minrothad). Aztec/Oltec descendants escaping the collapse of the Great Plateau find their way to Sind where they mingle with nomad Urduk. Tanagoro culture on the Serpent Peninsula collapses into fighting tribes, while some carved out territories on the newly formed Thanegia Island.

Yav finally finds the artifact of Time that he was searching for in a crack in the floor of the shallow sea separating the Serpent Peninsula from Thanegia Island.

BC 1725: King Loark of the humanoids organizes an army of humanoids known as the Great Horde. Continuing on his Quest for a Blue Knife, they move south into the lands of men, and bring savage destruction to these places.

BC 1722: Great Horde ravages Norwold and learns Norse culture.

BC 1720: Akkila-Khan conquers the southern steppes. The land masses in southern Brun (including Big Ierendi Island) split further, forming 10 islands south of the Five Shires. Verdier elves build ships and join their cousins in the Sea of Dread.

BC 1711: Great Horde reaches pre-khanate Ethengar. Akkila-Khan allies with King Loark against the Ethengarian nomads.

BC 1710: The Great Horde of humanoids led by King Loark invades the Steppes and enslaves the primitive Ethengars. King Loark's horde is joined by Akkila-Khan's humanoid horde. Together they ravage the Steppes.

BC 1709: Akkila-Khan betrays King Loark, defeating him at the battle of Chongor, in exchange for lands west of the Dol-Anur. King Loark's Great Horde splinters: the trolls head east, the goblins south, and the rest of the Great Horde is driven out of the steppes into the Broken Lands.

BC 1701: Resurgence of faith in Ethengar; Akkila-Khan betrayed by Ethengar allies; retreats from Dol-Anur.

BC 1700:The earlier elven settlers in Glantri found a strange artifact from the Blackmoor civilization, in the Broken Lands. They tinkered with it, and it exploded cataclysmically. Great, impenetrable clouds of smoke and ash rose into the sky and do not disperse for years. In Ethengar the Land of Black Sand is formed. A dreadful rotting plague affected many creatures in the area, with the ancestors of the shadow elves partly affected. When they first felt the explosion and saw the clouds, these elves fled for the caves below out of instinct and racial memory. This instant flight possibly saved them from extinction.

Split into tribes, the elves travel widely, amny finding their way to the Hollow World; these are the ancestors of the Hollow World's Gentle Folk, Icevale Elves, and the Azcans' mortal Hollow World enemies, the Schattenalfen. A fourth group, led by an elf named Atziann, had no survivors save that king. Those that remain underneith Glantri and the Broken Lands become the Shadow Elves.

King Loark dies in the explosion as much of his remaining hoard is buried. The remnants soon break apart and scatter. Giants, trolls, and gnolls are driven south into the Northern Reaches in successive waves of migration. Goblinoids settle in the Yazak Steppes.
Last edited by Chimpman on Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Tue Sep 15, 2009 4:23 am

Excellent start. I'll have to wait til tomorrow to help with the condensing.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Tue Sep 15, 2009 3:56 pm

Hugin wrote:Excellent start. I'll have to wait til tomorrow to help with the condensing.

Thanks. I've got a good first draft down, but look it over and see if I've missed anything (or if anything needs changing).
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Tue Sep 15, 2009 7:37 pm

Chimpman wrote:BC 2000 - geological activity (earthquakes and volcanic eruptions) in southern Brun increases - this does not split land masses or create islands at this point. The geological activity will continue through BC 1720.
BC 1750 - the first event, created "Big Ierendi"
BC 1720 - the second event, creates all 10 Ierendi isles
BC 1700 - the elven cataclysm - not actually involved in island creating events

You know, I really like this presentation concept for our 'skeleton' timeline (i.e. the main events of the big picture). Nothing overly descriptive or lengthy, looking much like a newspaper heading. We don't need minor events such as specifics relating to an individual, mainly just geological, national, and political. Something easy to see how things develop over large chunks of time at once.

Then the next layer would essential be our full canon history, followed by any of our additions and notes that 'bridge' the canon items together (i.e. events in between canon-listed events). In my analogy of the skeleton, this would get us to having the muscles and tendons placed on. From there, our more detailed endeavors can be added over top as the organs and skin (i.e. gazetteer-like information).

This should allow us to take small bites at a time and hopefully keep everything in focus as we "zoom in". How does that sound to you?
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:39 pm

Alright, so here's a (poorly formatted) example of the skeleton timeline up to just prior to the GRoF. Notice that it is trimmed down and excludes much of the details and descriptive elements of these events. Those would be included in the next layer of "zooming in".

  • Dawn of the Sentient Races
    -5000 AY, 6000 BC
    Old Stone Age.
    Humans are tribal hunter-gatherers.
    Dwarves are mountain and foothill dwellers, mostly goatherders.
    Elves are sheltered, do not need to work or suffer.
    There are no monstrous humanoids.
    The Known World region is under the arctic ice cap.
    -4300 AY, 5300 BC
    Brute-Men tribal wars.
  • Dawn of Civilization
    -4000 AY, 5000 BC
    The elves are forced to leave paradise. The first great elf civilization of Evergun arises, then begins urbanization (city building). Elves learn magic easily, all knowing some magic, but limited to low orders of magic use only.
    The Immortals destroy corrupt elements of the Brute-Men culture, placed in Hollow World; Spell of Preservation cast on the Hollow World.
    On another world, Alphatians begins to rise to pre-eminence and to study mighty magics.
    -3500 AY, 4500 BC
    Beastmen appear in the Borean Valley
  • The Era of Blackmoor
    -3000 AY, 4000 BC
    Blackmoor conquers and assimilates all surrounding human tribes and quickly grows very powerful.
    Oltecs begin their rise toward civilization, colonize the Savage Coast, encounter Tortles and Manscorpions.
    Aranea and Wallara civilizations thrive.
    Alphatians defeat the Cypris civilization
    -2850 AY, 3850 BC
    A group of warlike flatland tribes are conquered and colonized by the Oltecs.
    -2500 AY, 3500 BC
    The elves and Blackmoor find each other at the height of their cultures, conducting trade and intermittent war with the elves. Four clans of elves colonize in the region near Blackmoor, try technology and grow great at it. The elves of Evergrun also embrace technology.
    Blackmoor's priests promote holy wars to hunt down and destroy the beastmen in the Borean Valley.
    Azcan cities declare their independence and begin to wage war on the Oltecs.
    The widespread Neathar tribes rapidly develop very different dialects; no longer recognize a kinship among themselves. Some Neathar placed in the Hollow World.
    The Alphatian/Cypris civilisation begins colonization and conquest of nearby planets and explore the elemental planes.
    -2300 AY, 3300 BC
    Ka now implements Korotiku's idea for a massive centre of mortal knowledge in the Hollow World.
    -2200 AY, 3200 BC
    Blackmoor crusades drive Beastmen into Hyborea; they adapt to the colder climate and survive.
    -2100 AY, 3100 BC
    Aquarendi elves enter the waters to begin a new life.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Tue Sep 15, 2009 8:47 pm

I like it.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Wed Sep 16, 2009 5:54 pm

Ok, here is an attempt at covering the BC 2000 to BC 1700 period using Hugin's format:


  • Elemental Upheavals
    -1000 AY, 2000 BC
    Geological activities (including earthquakes and volcanoes) intensify in southern Brun. This activity lasts for the next 300 years.
    -750 AY, 1750 BC
    Series of volcanoes and earthquakes split land masses from continent of Brun
    "Big Ierendi" island formed off the coast of Five Shires
    Large Minrothad islands formed off the coast of Karameikos and Thyatis
    Great Plateau collapses (in Atraughin)
    Rising seas flood the Serpent Peninsula, forming the Dhiki Namazzi
    Taymora proper is destroyed, although remnants remain
    Makai, lizardmen, and Meditor elves stranded on newly formed islands
    Azcan/Oltec descendants crushed under Great Plateau and scattered
    Tanagoro move to newly formed Thanegia Island.
    -720 AY, 1720 BC
    Mount Kikianu erupts
    Big Ierendi splits, forming 10 islands
    Verdier elves build ships and join their cousins in the Sea of Dread
    -700 AY, 1700 BC
    Early elven refugees in Glantri detonate Blackmoorian artifact
    Radiance poisoning covers the area for years
    Land of Black Sands is formed in Ethengar
    Second elven migration flees underground
    King Loark dies and Great Hoard sunders
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:29 pm

Looks good, Chimpman! I really think that starting very basic like this will help us achieve the big picture we need before getting to the next level of detail.

Another aspect that I am working on is a series of geo-Immortal (?) maps showing the when and where Immortals focused their influences. I plan to use this in exploring the development of various peoples' cultures and beliefs throughout Mystara's history. They are not likely to be very detailed maps (or pretty for that matter) just as long as it shows the info I'm looking for.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Wed Sep 16, 2009 7:34 pm

Hugin wrote:Another aspect that I am working on is a series of geo-Immortal (?) maps showing the when and where Immortals focused their influences. I plan to use this in exploring the development of various peoples' cultures and beliefs throughout Mystara's history. They are not likely to be very detailed maps (or pretty for that matter) just as long as it shows the info I'm looking for.

:D I think this is a really cool idea! You should float this by Thorf as well - it seems like it would make an excellent addition to the Atlas (I'd even go so far as to say it could compose an entire section all its own). Something like that might also be very useful to someone wanting to run immortal level campaigns... not that that happens all too often, but still.

Looking forward to seeing this.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:24 pm

You won't believe this; after finally getting a working internet connection back at home, the stupid PC decides it doesn't what to show me anything beyond the Windows screen. When the login screen should come up the monitor (tried two different ones) goes into a sleep mode (i.e. the connection is fine but it's as if the PC was shut down, which it hasn't)! Strange stuff.

The bad news is that I can't do any work on the PC at home, including posts here. The good news is that practically everything I need for this project can be found between my office PC and jump drive and I can still look up things in all my hardcopy books at home and take notes, etc.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Thu Sep 17, 2009 8:44 pm

Hugin wrote:You won't believe this; after finally getting a working internet connection back at home, the stupid PC decides it doesn't what to show me anything beyond the Windows screen. When the login screen should come up the monitor (tried two different ones) goes into a sleep mode (i.e. the connection is fine but it's as if the PC was shut down, which it hasn't)! Strange stuff.

The bad news is that I can't do any work on the PC at home, including posts here. The good news is that practically everything I need for this project can be found between my office PC and jump drive and I can still look up things in all my hardcopy books at home and take notes, etc.

Uhg... I sorry to hear this Hugin. I had a similar experience several months ago... turns out it had nothing to do with the screen (which is what I also thought at first). The screen was timing out and going into sleep mode because I had some corrupted driver and Windows never actually loaded in all the way. I had this problem whether I tried logging in normally or in Safe Mode. Eventually I had to reinstall the OS.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:53 pm

Here is an attempt to outline the Great Rain of Fire timeline events:


  • Age of Blackmoor
    -3000 AY, 4000 BC
    Blackmoor and surrounding civilizations grow and thrive
    The present day Known World is located at the north pole and currently under sheets of ice.
    -2200 AY, 3200 BC (??? not sure on date)
    Elves establish an outpost near the north pole (Glantri/Broken Lands area) to study strange anomalies. They bring with them a Blackmoorian power source.
    Blackmoor establishes colony of Urzud at outer edges of its empire
  • Great Rain of Fire
    -2000 AY, 3000 BC
    Blackmoor civilization comes to a violent end
    Blackmoor device in Glantri/Broken Lands not affected because it lies under anti-magic zone
    Planet axis is shifted, leaving Blackmoor at the new north pole and bringing the Known World into a more temperate climate
    Radiance poisoning covers the planet, extending outward from former location of Blackmoor
    Blackmoor elves forced underground (traveling to meet their brethren in the polar colony)
  • Ice Age
    -1999 AY, 2999 BC
    The entire planet enters into an ice age caused by the polar shift, debris from the GRoF that blocks out the sun.
    Ice builds up in the new polar regions, and the sea level steadily declines
    -1900 AY, 2900 BC
    The Ice Age ends and climates become warmer
    The glaciers in the Known World (pre-GRoF north pole) begin to melt.
    Sea levels begin a steady rise
    -1500 AY, 2500 BC
    Dwarves and gnomes settle in Rockhome and the Northern Reaches as the continental ice sheets recede

This isn't fully agreed upon at this point, but I did want to put something up that we can look at. Also, I still need to incorporate OD's quotes from PC3 and CoM.
Last edited by Chimpman on Thu Sep 24, 2009 12:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:24 pm

Thanks Chimpman. I'm not sure about the glaciers having been receded by 2500 BC though. I'm sure we'll figure that out soon though.

Btw, I'll be working on that Geo-Immortal project this weekend. I think it will be important in establishing our histories by giving us direction on who influenced who (both culturally and geographically) and help identifying migration paths (again, by canon references and by inferred internal information). I'll be relying quite a bit on Marco's Codex Immortalis since he was very intentional about staying canon first, then being creative around that.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:36 pm

Hugin wrote:Btw, I'll be working on that Geo-Immortal project this weekend. I think it will be important in establishing our histories by giving us direction on who influenced who (both culturally and geographically) and help identifying migration paths (again, by canon references and by inferred internal information). I'll be relying quite a bit on Marco's Codex Immortalis since he was very intentional about staying canon first, then being creative around that.

Cool, I can't wait to see it. I've been using the Codex as well, but we shouldn't be afraid of modifying any information there if it makes sense for us to do that (and still conforms to canon). In many ways immortal research is one of the hardest things to do because most of the references are indirect (rather than the fairly straight forward direct statements we are used to in dealing with timelines). Dates for ascension are particularly tricky, and I've come across a few Codex dates that could be debatable. Nonetheless, this is an excellent place for us to start.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Fri Sep 18, 2009 9:38 pm

Chimpman wrote:Cool, I can't wait to see it. I've been using the Codex as well, but we shouldn't be afraid of modifying any information there if it makes sense for us to do that (and still conforms to canon). In many ways immortal research is one of the hardest things to do because most of the references are indirect (rather than the fairly straight forward direct statements we are used to in dealing with timelines). Dates for ascension are particularly tricky, and I've come across a few Codex dates that could be debatable. Nonetheless, this is an excellent place for us to start.

Once again, we are definitely on the same page!
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Mon Sep 21, 2009 5:59 pm

To give you an update on what I'm working on, I've been looking at the time period up to immediately prior to the GRoF. I'm basically trying to establish which population groups existed and roughly where they were located. That will be intrinsically tied into establishing where the various Immortals have their main influences.

With all the reading I've been doing on weekend (official material as well as parts of Marco's Codex Immortalis), I have a working picture of things very early in history. I lean towards having humans created (or at least altered at various stages) in the same manner as the demi-humans. The HW book suggests that modern man was developed from the Brute-men (Neanderthals) and that the later were left to languish as the new tribes expanded. I doesn't matter, as far as the GazH project is concerned, whether the Neanderthals were created or evolved.

Side Note: I think it may be a good idea to have optional views or suggestions within the GazH material as "side-bar" type entries. For example, the above origins of the Neanderthal, or other things like how to incorporate other fan works that have different assumptions than the GazH project.

So here are some of the assumptions of the GazH project:
- Mystara is not Earth. Despite the physical resemblance to earth's past, canon seems to suggest that "Earth" is in a different plane/dimension.
- Technology does not work well on the Prime Plane because its laws and physics are based on different realities. Although the results are seen to be very similar to what you would expect to see on Earth, the causes of these effects are significantly different. Mystara's universe is based on the interactions of the Four Elements and the Spheres of Power, not on the modern theories of science we know today.
- Although evolution exists on Mystara, it is usually the result of an external influence on the species (either on some or all). Many creatures arrived at their present state due to intentional meddling by powerful forces, be that mortal or Immortal, while others were altered by other happenstances such as wild magical forces, elemental imbalances, or the Spheres' of Power struggle for dominance. Because of this, 'evolution' tends to occur in large, clear steps.
- There have been beings and forces that have acted and influenced Mystara's far past that are no longer in existence. This means that even the Immortals are 'in the dark' about any type of 'beginning' for some things, such as the planet or even life itself.
- The HW material gives insight into the cultures and beliefs of the peoples that once existed on the Outer World (once their HW history is filtered out).
- These assumptions are not yet cast in stone. ;)

Alright, now for some of what I've come up with on the weekend:
I like much of what Marco has written about very early Mystaran history such as the Age of Giants. I'm looking at having the Neanderthals based along the eastern Endworld Mountains (which would be the northern side back then) in around the vicinity of The Cradle. (The bonus is that it allows us to say that "The Cradle" derives its name from being the location of the infancy of humans and even other races as well, as I'll show). This puts them in a latitude between roughly 50 and 60 degrees North which sounds very good to me. They took refuge among the caves and hills and roamed out onto the plains for big game such as the Aurochs.

The Garls (similar relationship to Giants as Neanderthals have to man), are found among the Black Mountains. They spread out to inhabit the northern plains and glaciers. Then came the wars of the giants and the development of the giant subspecies; the Mountain and Cloud Giants moved to the Arm of the Immortals (Neanderthal and later humans see them as Immortals of those mountains). The giants are a huge factor in why the Neanderthal and later Neathar migrated in directions away from the Arm of the Immortals / Savage Coast region

Lunch time - more to come...
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Mon Sep 21, 2009 8:56 pm

Continuing...

The dwarves were mainly found along the mountain region of present-day Norwold known as the Ice-Reach Range, but were by no means restricted to only the mountains. As a matter of fact they tended to inhabit the valleys and foothills far more than truly mountainous terrain. Their contact with the Neanderthals was almost non-existent. Instead, they dealt mainly with the giants, and exchanged limited cultural aspects, however even this was relatively rare.

Other populations appear on Brun throughout this time as well. (I'm not exactly sure of which ones or when but we do know that it will happen sooner or later).

The Neanderthals are hemmed in by these various populations, as well as their environment, and begin to lose in the competition for resources to their superior neighbours. Every attempt by Kagyar and Ka to indirectly guide or improve them has been quashed by invasions or through natural causes. As a race, they seem too weak to hold on to any advantage they find that they have.

Some tribes attempt migrations, only a few are successful. Eventually they manage to find small footholds in Norwold and even as far as Skothar(?) (I'm assuming that some Neanderthals still exist on the OW as suggested by canon). The Immortal Kagyar (once a Neanderthal himself) sees that they are at risk of disappearing altogether around 10,000 BC (such a round number is very approximate IMO) and sees them as candidates for the great experiment known as the Hollow World).

A few thousand years later (somewhere between 1000 and 3000 years I'd say), the Neanderthals are still barely managing to survive despite the difficulties, much to the growing surprise (and sympathy) of those interested Immortals. It is a hard, gloomy, hopeless life for the Outer World Neanderthals while the Hollow World Neanderthals live a considerably easier life. No race is consistently 'crushed' as they are. The Immortals are forced to ask themselves if they have done a great injustice by leaving some on the surface to a sentence of perpetual doom.

Although no Immortal now active on Mystara can claim the Neanderthal as their creation, it is clear to them that something must be done; do they transport the remnant to the Hollow World? Do they orchestrate the Neanderthal extinction? Or do they further the race by altering them and giving them a competitive boost to be at least or par with others? They choose the later and as Immortals state their interest in the process (for no Immortal could claim 'ownership') a council was formed for the task.

In short, it was decided to diversify 'man' and three divisions were made for three divisions; man was now divided into three groups that were divided by geography, nature, and appearance.
Tanagoro man was given to the vast savannas of the more southern continent of Skothar. They are tall and lean and were given a great warrior instinct, and as such, their war-like tradition was quickly developed. Despite this, it was imputed upon them to be relatively peaceful toward their fellow tribes, rarely being aggressive but fierce and tactical to protect their own. They are given a very dark complexion.
Oltec man was given to the other northern continent of Davania where they were placed around the Addakian Sound. They were blessed as great explorers, seafarers, and travelers. Unlike the other two groups, this one was given a preferred habitat of forests and deep jungles. Their swift advancements were tempered inter-tribal warfare; more so than either of the other groups. They are given a coppery complexion.
Neathar man was given to the same continent as the Neanderthals struggled on, Brun. They were placed where the Neanderthal were taken from but equipped to be more competitive, as well as very prolific. Their numbers swelled forcing them to migrate and branch out. They are given the fair complexion of the Neanderthal.

This diversification was to satisfy the many desires of the Immortals on the council and also to contribute to their chances of success. The continental separation was to keep them from either warring against each other right from the start or from intermingling too quickly and losing the advantages of making them unique.

The above description stays within all the canon I've read so far. Furthermore, I can explain all the canon human migrations from this standpoint as well. We'll have to see how things develop though.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:22 pm

It's nice work so far Hugin. What are the main sources that you're pulling information from? I'm assuming a big contributer is the HW Boxed Set, but perhaps there are others?
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Mon Sep 21, 2009 9:56 pm

Chimpman wrote:It's nice work so far Hugin. What are the main sources that you're pulling information from? I'm assuming a big contributer is the HW Boxed Set, but perhaps there are others?

Hollow World and Marco's Codex Immortalis mainly. There's not much canon at all dealing with stuff this far back. One of the reason's I'm using Marco's stuff is that he includes which books contain relevant material as a reference.

My main goal here (besides determining canon) is making sure that things are properly staged for the Rise of Blackmoor era. Once populations are located I can also work further on the geo-Immortal maps.

Here's a quick map to give an idea of relative positions:
Image
Notice I've made a rather feeble attempt at showing land bridges, etc., and the Blackmoor area does not show the correct coastlines.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Mon Sep 21, 2009 11:34 pm

That's a cool map! 8-) I've been wondering just where the pre-GRoF arctic would be, and that map helps a lot.

Hugin wrote:My main goal here (besides determining canon) is making sure that things are properly staged for the Rise of Blackmoor era. Once populations are located I can also work further on the geo-Immortal maps.

Here is a question to ask: What exactly are we considering canon? Does this include material published specifically for Blackmoor, or only material that references Mystara. Not sure I have a preference, but probably can't help much with Blackmoor only products (as I don't own many of them).
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Hugin » Tue Sep 22, 2009 12:20 am

Chimpman wrote:Here is a question to ask: What exactly are we considering canon? Does this include material published specifically for Blackmoor, or only material that references Mystara. Not sure I have a preference, but probably can't help much with Blackmoor only products (as I don't own many of them).

That's actually a real good question to get answered (and added to the GazH assumptions). I'd like to include the DA1-4 Blackmoor products if all possible, given that I don't own all of them. It wouldn't include the more recent non-TSR published Blackmoor stuff (since I don't have any of it and I don't know how compatible it is. If desired, I'm sure someone with those books could insert things in themselves.

Good news! I have my home PC working again :!: :D
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Chimpman » Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:45 am

Hugin wrote:
Chimpman wrote:Here is a question to ask: What exactly are we considering canon? Does this include material published specifically for Blackmoor, or only material that references Mystara. Not sure I have a preference, but probably can't help much with Blackmoor only products (as I don't own many of them).

That's actually a real good question to get answered (and added to the GazH assumptions). I'd like to include the DA1-4 Blackmoor products if all possible, given that I don't own all of them. It wouldn't include the more recent non-TSR published Blackmoor stuff (since I don't have any of it and I don't know how compatible it is. If desired, I'm sure someone with those books could insert things in themselves.

Good news! I have my home PC working again :!: :D

Nice. I've got all the DA series, so no worries there.
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Re: GazH Timeline (working thread)

Postby Havard » Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:03 am

I like what you guys are doing here. Seems like we are on the same page with regards to my earlier questions! :)

Hugin wrote:Tanagoro man was given to the vast savannas of the more southern continent of Skothar. They are tall and lean and were given a great warrior instinct, and as such, their war-like tradition was quickly developed. Despite this, it was imputed upon them to be relatively peaceful toward their fellow tribes, rarely being aggressive but fierce and tactical to protect their own. They are given a very dark complexion.
Oltec man was given to the other northern continent of Davania where they were placed around the Addakian Sound. They were blessed as great explorers, seafarers, and travelers. Unlike the other two groups, this one was given a preferred habitat of forests and deep jungles. Their swift advancements were tempered inter-tribal warfare; more so than either of the other groups. They are given a coppery complexion.
Neathar man was given to the same continent as the Neanderthals struggled on, Brun. They were placed where the Neanderthal were taken from but equipped to be more competitive, as well as very prolific. Their numbers swelled forcing them to migrate and branch out. They are given the fair complexion of the Neanderthal.


I like this setup with one people per continent. Is the Oltec connection to Davania canon? The only known canon placements of the Oltec I know are on Brun. OTOH, I like the idea of these being Brun colonies. Similarly we know that there were Neathar colonies on Davania. These peoples later encountered the Milennians.

I know this is the H-continuity, so sorry if I am talking too much about canon here.. :)

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