Could Star Pact Warlocks gain power from Thoon?

Discuss 4th Edition rules, PoL setting concepts, and the GSL here.
The Book-House: Find 4th Edition products, Find D&D Essentials products.

Moderators: Idabrius, Blacky the Blackball

Could Star Pact Warlocks gain power from Thoon?

Postby Big Mac » Sat Aug 13, 2016 3:38 pm

I don't quite get Star Pact Warlocks, yet, but I saw a couple of Piazza members saying that they gain power from the Far Realm.

Monster Manual V (from 3rd Edition) had a Far Realm faction called Thoon (that was trying to take control of mind flayer society).

So, if Star Pact Warlocks use the Far Realm could they use Thoon as a power source?
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 20780
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: Could Star Pact Warlocks gain power from Thoon?

Postby Zeromaru X » Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:24 pm

Indeed. Star Pack Warlocks get their powers by doing pacts with Far Realm entities. It is said that the first ones to create those pacts were a faction of tieflings of Bael Turath, as they sought a way to free themselves from Asmodeus clutches, so they compacted with other entities to gain freedom from their recently forged infernal pacts that created their race. So, they pleaded themselves to a power that can rival even that of a god: the dreadfully powerful Far Realm entities. As you can imagine, Asmodeus was (and still is) not amused. That's why most of the present-day Nerath world's tieflings aren't slaves of the Nine Hells.

mmm... I have to post this in the lore section of the Nentir Vale forum.

They are called "Star Pact" Warlocks because in the Nentir Vale the Far Realm is associated with stars, and the most active Far Realm forces in the Nerath world are the Far Realm-infested stars that dot the "Nerathspace". But, in 4e Eberron, for example, Star Pact Warlocks gain their power by compacting with Xoriat denizens, and in 4e Forgotten Realms they gained their powers from compacting with any Far Realm denizens, like the Abolethic Sovereignty.

5e call them "Elder One Pact" Warlocks, and I believe that is a more accurate name for their pact.

Regarding your question, if Thoon is a powerful Far Realm entity and want to grant "his" (?) power with a foolish mortal stupid enough to pact with that kind of creatures, yeah, that pact would be called "Star Pact" under 4e rules.
User avatar
Zeromaru X
The Elder Wizard
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:24 am

Re: Could Star Pact Warlocks gain power from Thoon?

Postby Big Mac » Tue Aug 16, 2016 12:40 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:Indeed. Star Pack Warlocks get their powers by doing pacts with Far Realm entities. It is said that the first ones to create those pacts were a faction of tieflings of Bael Turath, as they sought a way to free themselves from Asmodeus clutches, so they compacted with other entities to gain freedom from their recently forged infernal pacts that created their race. So, they pleaded themselves to a power that can rival even that of a god: the dreadfully powerful Far Realm entities. As you can imagine, Asmodeus was (and still is) not amused. That's why most of the present-day Nerath world's tieflings aren't slaves of the Nine Hells.

mmm... I have to post this in the lore section of the Nentir Vale forum.


Thanks for the history.

I'm not sure how the power of Thoon matches up against the power of Asmodeus, but they both sound like big threats to the world.

They are called "Star Pact" Warlocks because in the Nentir Vale the Far Realm is associated with stars, and the most active Far Realm forces in the Nerath world are the Far Realm-infested stars that dot the "Nerathspace". But, in 4e Eberron, for example, Star Pact Warlocks gain their power by compacting with Xoriat denizens, and in 4e Forgotten Realms they gained their powers from compacting with any Far Realm denizens, like the Abolethic Sovereignty.[/quote]

Ah. So is "Star Pact" more correct for Nentir Vale than for Forgotten Realms and/or Dark Sun? :?

(If this is a Nentir Vale specific thing, I'll have to ask a moderator to shunt this topic over to the Nentir Vale forum. I thought it was a generic 4e thing.)

Zeromaru X wrote:5e call them "Elder One Pact" Warlocks, and I believe that is a more accurate name for their pact.


That does sound better.

I was interested in the name, because it had the word "Star" in it, but if "Nerathspace" has stars that are portals to the Far Realm, but other crystal spheres/settings have stars that do not do that, then the concept wouldn't work there. Using the term "Elder One Pact" implies that the warlock has a pact with one of the Elder Evils (or another creature from that era) without specifying exactly how the connection has been made.

Zeromaru X wrote:Regarding your question, if Thoon is a powerful Far Realm entity and want to grant "his" (?) power with a foolish mortal stupid enough to pact with that kind of creatures, yeah, that pact would be called "Star Pact" under 4e rules.


Monster Manual V does not explain exactly what Thoon is. They leave the question open for the GM to interpret. But if the Star Pact Warlock stuff from 4e...and the Elder One Pact Warlock stuff from 5e has created a context for Far Realm powers, I think it would be logical to look for them for inspiration. :)

Do the PHB entries for Warlocks give a list of entities that a Star Pact can be made with? Are there extra ones that get added in later PHBs or magazine content or is it a fixed list?

Does the 5e stuff cover the same ground as the 4e stuff, or does it go in a different direction?

Do Forgotten Realms and/or Dark Sun swap out any Far Realm powers for new ones customised for their own settings? (Or is this a universal thing?)
David "Big Mac" Shepheard
Please join The Piazza's Facebook group, The Piazza's Facebook page and The Piazza's Google + community so that you can stay in touch.
Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project - Spelljammer Wiki - The Spelljammer Image Group.
Moderator of the Spelljammer forum. My moderator voice is green.
User avatar
Big Mac
Giant Space Hamster
 
Posts: 20780
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:52 pm
Location: London UK

Re: Could Star Pact Warlocks gain power from Thoon?

Postby Zeromaru X » Tue Aug 16, 2016 3:14 pm

Big Mac wrote:Ah. So is "Star Pact" more correct for Nentir Vale than for Forgotten Realms and/or Dark Sun? :?

(If this is a Nentir Vale specific thing, I'll have to ask a moderator to shunt this topic over to the Nentir Vale forum. I thought it was a generic 4e thing.)


Is generic 4e stuff. The term was coined for the Nentir Vale setting, but was used in the 4e Eberron (there is a warforged star pact warlock in the player guide) and 4e Forgotten Realms (they are mentioned in a Dragon article about the Red Wizards). It just that the term is not appropriate for those settings, as in those settings any Far Realm creature not related with stars can grant you a star pact :? . Call it Hasbro executive meddling

(In 4e Dark Sun, the only warlocks mentioned are the Sorcerer-Kings pact Warlocks).

Zeromaru X wrote:Do the PHB entries for Warlocks give a list of entities that a Star Pact can be made with? Are there extra ones that get added in later PHBs or magazine content or is it a fixed list?

Does the 5e stuff cover the same ground as the 4e stuff, or does it go in a different direction?

Do Forgotten Realms and/or Dark Sun swap out any Far Realm powers for new ones customised for their own settings? (Or is this a universal thing?)


1. The PHBs don't give any list, only say that you made deals with the Far Realm entities to get your star pact. A couple of dragon articles list some stars and a constellation (that is comprised by the creatures from the 3.5 Elder Evils book), that are normally the entities warlocks from both, the Nentir Vale and Faerun, can call upon to make star pacts. You can check here, in the third post, in the Far Realm section: viewtopic.php?f=72&t=15117

Though, technically, any Far Realm entity can grant you a "star pact" in 4e.

2. Yeah. Mechanically-speaking aside, "star pact" and "elder one pact" have the same flavor.

3. Nope. You can use any spells from whatever source you want. There is no unique spin.
User avatar
Zeromaru X
The Elder Wizard
 
Posts: 695
Joined: Sun Jan 10, 2016 8:24 am

Re: Could Star Pact Warlocks gain power from Thoon?

Postby dulsi » Sun Oct 16, 2016 1:14 am

The description from the Player's Handbook for star pact struck me as different than fey and infernal. It actually doesn't mention that you make a deal with any being. It seemed more like you figured out a way to siphon their power. (That doesn't mean the being(s) don't know what is going on. You may still be serving them unknowingly.)

The Abolethic Sovereignty Book 3 Key of Stars, which takes place in Forgotten Realms, has the fey pact warlock switch to star pact. For that he looks to the stars I believe so there is some cannon about star pact power coming from the stars.
Dennis Payne -- Identical Games
Support Roon's Raccoon Sprintladder on Lego Ideas.
ImageImage
User avatar
dulsi
Storm Giant
 
Posts: 1743
Joined: Mon Aug 11, 2008 12:20 am


Return to D&D 4th Edition

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest