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Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:33 pm
by Havard
From Dragonsfoot:
Finarvyn wrote:1. GAMMA WORLD is owned by WotC and they recently put out a new edition of the game based on a simplified version of D&D 4E.
2. It's a dead game already. They put out a core boxed set, two supplements, two fiction books, and are now done with the product line.
Is this true, or is the new GW supported through DDI perhaps?

-Havard

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Fri Nov 25, 2011 9:18 pm
by Cthulhudrew
Haven't really followed anything 4E in a while, but from what I gather, GW is dead, and they're already starting to make some big(?) changes to 4E.

I always kind of got the sense that it Gamma World 4E wasn't going to be something they kept ongoing, though; more just like a fun one-off of "Here's a new game based on the same rules you can all play" anyway. Kind of surprised they put out as much supporting product for it as they did.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 8:51 am
by Havard
Cthulhudrew wrote:I always kind of got the sense that it Gamma World 4E wasn't going to be something they kept ongoing, though; more just like a fun one-off of "Here's a new game based on the same rules you can all play" anyway. Kind of surprised they put out as much supporting product for it as they did.
You may be right about that. This seems to be the attitude with the lot of the WotC products these days. Does it even make sense to say they are dead anymore, as the idea of supporting a setting has pretty much been abandoned?

I am also getting the impression that WotC is encouraging the type of play that resembles board games, in the sense that you sit down and play a game of Gamma World or D&D Dark Sun one night and then don't return to it, as opposed to traditional campaign type play. Has the idea of running campaigns been abandoned?

-Havard

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:01 am
by BlackBat242
With 4E having a strong emphasis on board-style play underlying its role-playing veneer, is this really a surprise?

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 2:29 pm
by dulsi
Before Gamma World came out they announced that it would be limited to three products. They also said in interviews that they didn't see it as a long term campaign which is one of the reasons it has only 10 levels. The fact that it got an article on vehicles in Dragon (or Dungeon) was a surprise.

There is still a lot of fan made material on the WotC forums. I used to consider 1e and BECMI dead games but the internet has shown plenty of life in the old editions.

I do think that Gamma World was a trial run of adding collectible cards to rpgs. While the designer worked to make an interesting game, I think they were giving a goal from the beginning to incorporate the collectible cards.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 9:06 pm
by Havard
BlackBat242 wrote:With 4E having a strong emphasis on board-style play underlying its role-playing veneer, is this really a surprise?
True. I wonder if this will affect the players, or if the idea of campaign style gaming has an appeal that will survive even if companies stop supporting it?

-Havard

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:34 pm
by dulsi
There is also a downloadable game for Gamma World coming to PS3, Xbox360 and PC. It was planned for Fall 2011. Looks like it hasn't come out yet.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:10 pm
by Big Mac
I don't think you can really say that any part of 4e is "dead". The 4e business model seems to be to provide enough information for gamers to use a specific setting with 4e rules and then move on.

You can only really say that Gamma World is dead if we go all the way through 5th edition and they don't bother to support it before the 6e announcement.

But even then, Dark Sun has shown that setting necromancy can always be done, so it is impossible to ever call Gamma World, or any other TSR or WotC IP dead.

Although, I suppose you could have a "sweepstake" for fun and have people all guess on what might get published before 5e comes out. ;)

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:27 pm
by night_druid
Gamma World must have an amazing constitution...that setting has had "Raise Dead" cast on it so many times by now that by rights it should be a sickly weakling ;) It'll probably be back sometime during 5E's run I'm sure.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 4:11 am
by Dragonhelm
Gamma World was never meant to be an ongoing product line. From day one, it was meant to be limited.

I can understand the criticism. However, WotC doesn't want to spread itself too thin with various settings, like TSR did. So they're not giving as much ongoing support for each setting. Some are getting support in Dragon and Dungeon, like the Realms, Eberron, and Dark Sun.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 12:47 pm
by Havard
Dragonhelm wrote:Gamma World was never meant to be an ongoing product line. From day one, it was meant to be limited.

I can understand the criticism. However, WotC doesn't want to spread itself too thin with various settings, like TSR did. So they're not giving as much ongoing support for each setting. Some are getting support in Dragon and Dungeon, like the Realms, Eberron, and Dark Sun.
The idea of publishing a limited number of books per setting and channeling support to the magazines is not a bad idea. I wish they had moved away from the high crunch/low fluff policy so that articles would become more interesting.

-Havard

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:04 pm
by Tom Kalbfus
A role playing game is not a board game though, it is designed so that new adventures can be created, So I suppose there is no possibility of Third Party support? That is if Wizards doesn't want to do it, maybe someone else might? Or are they just going to shoot themselves in the foot?

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 5:15 pm
by night_druid
3rd party support is very unlikely at this point; I doubt Gamma World is covered by the GRS. Even it it was, I doubt you'd find too many companies jumping onboard (3rd party response to the GRS was luke-warm at the very best; most won't touch it with a 10' pole). Best to either look towards fan-written materials or wait until a new edition comes out.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 6:42 pm
by Havard
I think it is pretty clear WotC is no longer interested in 3rd party support for any of their IPS.

-Havard

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2011 11:31 pm
by Dragonhelm
Havard wrote:
Dragonhelm wrote:Gamma World was never meant to be an ongoing product line. From day one, it was meant to be limited.

I can understand the criticism. However, WotC doesn't want to spread itself too thin with various settings, like TSR did. So they're not giving as much ongoing support for each setting. Some are getting support in Dragon and Dungeon, like the Realms, Eberron, and Dark Sun.
The idea of publishing a limited number of books per setting and channeling support to the magazines is not a bad idea. I wish they had moved away from the high crunch/low fluff policy so that articles would become more interesting.

-Havard
Actually, they have moved away from that. The fluff is MUCH better now.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 1:42 am
by Dragonhelm
Tom Kalbfus wrote:A role playing game is not a board game though, it is designed so that new adventures can be created,
Product lines do not go on forever, though. Yes, WotC could continue with support for all the D&D settings, but they would then spread themselves thin like what happened with TSR. Where RPGs differ, though, is that their fans are the ones generating new content. I've seen a blog or two out there with some GW stuff, which is cool.

I think, though, that the reason we're having this discussion is because we care for Gamma World. WotC nailed this version, and when we only got 3 products, we got vocal. Woot!

Oh, and if you want to support Gamma World further, I'd recommend submitting an article to the D&D Nexus.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 2:58 am
by BlackBat242
Dragonhelm wrote: I think, though, that the reason we're having this discussion is because we care for Gamma World. WotC nailed this version, and when we only got 3 products, we got vocal. Woot!

Oh, and if you want to support Gamma World further, I'd recommend submitting an article to the D&D Nexus.
Some of us haven't purchased anything for a new Gamma World edition since 3E (GW3e, that is) came out in 1985 (and I still regret buying that, as there were better gaming things I should have spent that money on).

We just hate to see the game system further dragged through the mud, as it means fewer people will be willing to look at any edition of the game.

There is a lot of fan-created material for GW1E/2Evailable on-line.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 3:28 am
by Dragonhelm
BlackBat242 wrote:Some of us haven't purchased anything for a new Gamma World edition since 3E (GW3e, that is) came out in 1985 (and I still regret buying that, as there were better gaming things I should have spent that money on).

We just hate to see the game system further dragged through the mud, as it means fewer people will be willing to look at any edition of the game.

There is a lot of fan-created material for GW1E/2Evailable on-line.
"Dragging through the mud" is kind of subjective. I've picked up a product or two from prior to the D&D version, and never got into it. That includes the d20 Modern version. It wasn't until it became a D&D setting that I got into it.

There's all sorts of flavors of Gamma World. Each one is somebody's favorite.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 9:08 am
by Havard
Dragonhelm wrote:
BlackBat242 wrote:Some of us haven't purchased anything for a new Gamma World edition since 3E (GW3e, that is) came out in 1985 (and I still regret buying that, as there were better gaming things I should have spent that money on).

We just hate to see the game system further dragged through the mud, as it means fewer people will be willing to look at any edition of the game.

There is a lot of fan-created material for GW1E/2Evailable on-line.
"Dragging through the mud" is kind of subjective. I've picked up a product or two from prior to the D&D version, and never got into it. That includes the d20 Modern version. It wasn't until it became a D&D setting that I got into it.

There's all sorts of flavors of Gamma World. Each one is somebody's favorite.
Good point :)
Maybe we could start a thread about each incarnation of the setting/game to highlight what is great about each?

-Havard

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 4:15 pm
by Tom Kalbfus
Maybe they should start calling the Game OmegaWorld, because whenever this setting is published, it seems that the Gaming system is done, they leave all the people who bought it holding the bag as they move onto another system, they did it with Alternity after all, when you start seeing a GammaWorld version of it, that gaming system's days are numbered.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 5:16 pm
by Cthulhudrew
Tom Kalbfus wrote:Maybe they should start calling the Game OmegaWorld...
Already happened. (See Dungeon Magazine/Polyhedron #94.)

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:43 pm
by Dragonhelm
Tom Kalbfus wrote:Maybe they should start calling the Game OmegaWorld, because whenever this setting is published, it seems that the Gaming system is done, they leave all the people who bought it holding the bag as they move onto another system, they did it with Alternity after all, when you start seeing a GammaWorld version of it, that gaming system's days are numbered.
That's kind of the nature of the beast, though. Almost every game system/setting is like that. Gamma World just had a shorter run than most.

That being said, there are many people who still play games no longer being supported, whether it be WEG's d6 Star Wars, Star Frontiers, or AD&D. The beauty of this particular beast is that gamers can generate content and continue to have fun for years to come.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:48 pm
by Bouv
Dragonhelm wrote:
Tom Kalbfus wrote:Maybe they should start calling the Game OmegaWorld, because whenever this setting is published, it seems that the Gaming system is done, they leave all the people who bought it holding the bag as they move onto another system, they did it with Alternity after all, when you start seeing a GammaWorld version of it, that gaming system's days are numbered.
That's kind of the nature of the beast, though. Almost every game system/setting is like that. Gamma World just had a shorter run than most.

That being said, there are many people who still play games no longer being supported, whether it be WEG's d6 Star Wars, Star Frontiers, or AD&D. The beauty of this particular beast is that gamers can generate content and continue to have fun for years to come.
As long as you have the core rule books to any system you can keep playing. And with the internet nowadays, someone somewhere has probably made more material you can snag if you run out of ideas.

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2011 6:59 pm
by Havard
Dragonhelm wrote:
Tom Kalbfus wrote:Maybe they should start calling the Game OmegaWorld, because whenever this setting is published, it seems that the Gaming system is done, they leave all the people who bought it holding the bag as they move onto another system, they did it with Alternity after all, when you start seeing a GammaWorld version of it, that gaming system's days are numbered.
That's kind of the nature of the beast, though. Almost every game system/setting is like that. Gamma World just had a shorter run than most.

That being said, there are many people who still play games no longer being supported, whether it be WEG's d6 Star Wars, Star Frontiers, or AD&D. The beauty of this particular beast is that gamers can generate content and continue to have fun for years to come.
In any case I think Alternity is a bad example here. Alternity probably would have been much more successful had not 3E been released so soon thereafter, calling for the next modern system to be d20 based (D20 Modern) instead of continuing Alternity. So this had more to do with TSR being bought by WotC than it had to do with Gamma World.

-Havard

Re: Is WotC Gamma World dead?

Posted: Sat Dec 03, 2011 12:45 am
by Tom Kalbfus
Havard wrote:
Dragonhelm wrote:
Tom Kalbfus wrote:Maybe they should start calling the Game OmegaWorld, because whenever this setting is published, it seems that the Gaming system is done, they leave all the people who bought it holding the bag as they move onto another system, they did it with Alternity after all, when you start seeing a GammaWorld version of it, that gaming system's days are numbered.
That's kind of the nature of the beast, though. Almost every game system/setting is like that. Gamma World just had a shorter run than most.

That being said, there are many people who still play games no longer being supported, whether it be WEG's d6 Star Wars, Star Frontiers, or AD&D. The beauty of this particular beast is that gamers can generate content and continue to have fun for years to come.
In any case I think Alternity is a bad example here. Alternity probably would have been much more successful had not 3E been released so soon thereafter, calling for the next modern system to be d20 based (D20 Modern) instead of continuing Alternity. So this had more to do with TSR being bought by WotC than it had to do with Gamma World.

-Havard
I think a game system should live or die based on its own merits rather than one what's coming down the pike next. I suppose the WotC folks didn't want to compete with themselves by selling two very different game systems, but there was nothing really wrong with the Alternity Game system, I just dislike the fact that the product cycle had grown so short that I was suckered into buying all those products, and I even designed a few spaceships for that game, only to have the game system go out of print. I was used to AD&D which was produced for about 2 decades, and my expectation was that a new game system would last equally long so we can learn the ins and outs of it, rather than the company becoming a Core Products mill. Why is it they don't constantly reinvent the game of Monopoly? It is still the same game system as it was in the 1930s with the same 1930s prices after all, what makes RPGs so different that they have to have whole game systems constantly go in and out of fashion?