What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Mezo-American adventures in Maztica, the True World.
The Book-House: Find Maztica products.

What would you like to see completed for the next "Maztica Alive!" project?

Poll ended at Mon Aug 15, 2011 12:44 am

The Land of the Holy Sun: A Guide to Lopango *
2
17%
Claw and Venom: The Scorpionfolk of the True World *
1
8%
Myths and Legends of the True World
1
8%
Remnants of the Past: Ruin based Adventures in the True World
3
25%
Blood Offering Adventure*
1
8%
Islands of the True World
2
17%
The Great Pyramid: Maztica and Planescape
1
8%
Fangs and Feathers: A Guide to Hishna and Pluma Magic
1
8%
 
Total votes: 12

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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Big Mac »

Seethyr wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
Seethyr wrote:....as for right now I am digesting an entire turkey and I really can't write anymore.
An entire turkey? That must have seriously distended your stomach!
Why do I get the strange feeling that Seethyr barbecued a turkey on the roof of a pyramid-shaped garden shed he built recently! :shock: :o
Well, that is only after cutting out it's poor little turkey heart and giving Zaltec his due first :twisted: !
Funny you should mention that. Without seeing your post, I was catching up on your Maztica Alive group and thinking of Hishana magic for spelljamming ships that look like critters that was powered by hearts from those critters. :lol:
Seethyr wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Tom Kalbfus wrote:The Maztica Setting doesn't seem to have as many islands for our would be "Pirates of the Carribean", as our Carribean does.
Judging by Auld Dragon's map of Abeir-Toril, it looks like "3. Islands of the True World" is going to have to be dealing with the curve of smaller islands to the north-east of Maztic, the two bigger islands to the north-east of Maztica and the few islands in the bay created by the curved bit of Maztica that spreads down the easten side of the main part of the continent.
There are some islands called the Brown Sisters found here, and the Lopango Payos located here. In one of the Candlekeep Compendiums, there is also an Island chain called the Waikaloni Islands (Hawaii/Fiji) and a chain of islands called the Punjabbi Archipelago which I'd like to work with. In my mind, anything written in the compendiums is as close to canon as homebrew can get.
I saw those islands. There is also a fairly long island directly north of the Brown Sisters.
Seethyr wrote:
Seethyr wrote:3. Islands of the True World
Though this book is perhaps some distance away, I had thought this might make a decent working title...

White Sands and Turquoise Waters: The Islands and Seas of the True World.

Too long?

As louisbowwow had once suggested, to increase the value of this book, it could also include the underwater civilizations that exist nearby. The Sea of Corynactis has yet to be written up in the Realms along with its shalarin inhabitants, so that might make a great start. Louisbowwow also suggested they worship Dagon (I think there might be a canon reference to that somewhere).

EDIT: Found that "somewhere" right here.
I like Louisbowwow's idea too.

Having looked at maps of Toril recently, I've realised that both Evermeet and Lantan are very very close to the western continents and many of the islands you are looking into working on. I think that both of them should have some sort of influence on what you do.

I love the idea of elves that are similar (not identical to) one or more Native American societies.

And if you want some Jamacan (and other Caribbean stuff), you either need some black-skinned people to be native to the islands, change the background, or have another way to have black-skinned people migrate in. How about having gnomes be common in the southern area and then creating a group of gnomes that have either helped (or forced) humans from Katashaka to get onto some of the islands that you want to have a Caribbean feel. I think that non-Lantanese gnomes could be the key for connecting a "displaced Africa" and a "modified Caribbean" together.

It might even be more interesting to have a Caribbean culture that is not tied to slavery. Perhaps there could be a Katashaka empire of "African-ised" gnomes that tie into some of the mythology of Africa somehow. They could have an empire that includes humans (and maybe other races) and could at some point have a force that rows north to try to invade Lopongo and Maztica. Give them several (failed) attempts to break into the northern lands and they could settle on some of the islands instead. You could then have a mixture between Katashaka-humans and Mezoamerican-humans to give you a similar sort of mix to what the Caribbean islands actually have.

SJR2 Realmspace has some pretty aggressive halflings on Anadia, so perhaps you could look to that for inspiration for what to do with gnomes. Or perhaps Katashaka could have both gnomes and halflings (and maybe even dwarves) filling in for the role of pigmies. You would obviously need to take care (more care than me) to stop it being cheesy, but it could be an opportunity to give all these demi-human races homelands in that area of Toril.

I know that modern South America has more of a racial mix, and I think that you could have a racial mix for some of the islands and nations or a cross race mix with Mezoamerican or Amerindian half-elves or other combinations. You could even use the muls (half dwarf/half human) from Dark Sun.
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Big Mac »

Seethyr wrote:
Twin Agate Dragons wrote: I've been jonesing for a Hawaiian themed rpg book for about a half a decade.
Me too! Maybe even longer here. I've heard some good things about Ierendi but I haven't really looked into it yet.

Somehow, in this one book I will try to throw just as much Caribbean lore in as well. I'm frankly tired of every Caribbean book I ever read always being about pirates. It's not that I hate pirates or pirate settings, it just makes people overlook the vast amount of native legends and magic that can be mined for a good supplement/setting.

I spent some time in Jamaica last summer and spent a good 2 hour ride talking with a bus driver about native legends. He told me about duppies and specifically about Rollin' Calf. My imagination for gaming potential ran wild. I did more research when I got home and found every island has its own potential. Xaymaca (Jamaica's original name in fact) might be the first island developed for this book.
Duppies look great. I see they have an alternative term of "jumbies" and it would be good if you could make both of these "ghosts" into something for the game.

I bought Ghostwalk a couple of years back and thought that was pretty interesting. There is also a nation ruled by undead elves in Eberron. (We have threads about both on The Piazza.) SJR1 Lost Ships has a variation on the lich called an archlich. Archliches can be good (or at least neutral) so they could fight against liches. Perhaps duppies and jumbies could be two types of people that have remained on the world as some sort of undead. Perhaps they could be two factions with one allied with an evil god (and maybe Hishna magic) and the other allied with a good god (and maybe Pluma magic).
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Tom Kalbfus »

Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
Seethyr wrote:....as for right now I am digesting an entire turkey and I really can't write anymore.
An entire turkey? That must have seriously distended your stomach!
Why do I get the strange feeling that Seethyr barbecued a turkey on the roof of a pyramid-shaped garden shed he built recently! :shock: :o
Well, that is only after cutting out it's poor little turkey heart and giving Zaltec his due first :twisted: !
Funny you should mention that. Without seeing your post, I was catching up on your Maztica Alive group and thinking of Hishana magic for spelljamming ships that look like critters that was powered by hearts from those critters. :lol:
Seethyr wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Tom Kalbfus wrote:The Maztica Setting doesn't seem to have as many islands for our would be "Pirates of the Carribean", as our Carribean does.
Judging by Auld Dragon's map of Abeir-Toril, it looks like "3. Islands of the True World" is going to have to be dealing with the curve of smaller islands to the north-east of Maztic, the two bigger islands to the north-east of Maztica and the few islands in the bay created by the curved bit of Maztica that spreads down the easten side of the main part of the continent.
There are some islands called the Brown Sisters found here, and the Lopango Payos located here. In one of the Candlekeep Compendiums, there is also an Island chain called the Waikaloni Islands (Hawaii/Fiji) and a chain of islands called the Punjabbi Archipelago which I'd like to work with. In my mind, anything written in the compendiums is as close to canon as homebrew can get.
I saw those islands. There is also a fairly long island directly north of the Brown Sisters.
Seethyr wrote:
Seethyr wrote:3. Islands of the True World
Though this book is perhaps some distance away, I had thought this might make a decent working title...

White Sands and Turquoise Waters: The Islands and Seas of the True World.

Too long?

As louisbowwow had once suggested, to increase the value of this book, it could also include the underwater civilizations that exist nearby. The Sea of Corynactis has yet to be written up in the Realms along with its shalarin inhabitants, so that might make a great start. Louisbowwow also suggested they worship Dagon (I think there might be a canon reference to that somewhere).

EDIT: Found that "somewhere" right here.
I like Louisbowwow's idea too.

Having looked at maps of Toril recently, I've realised that both Evermeet and Lantan are very very close to the western continents and many of the islands you are looking into working on. I think that both of them should have some sort of influence on what you do.

I love the idea of elves that are similar (not identical to) one or more Native American societies.

And if you want some Jamacan (and other Caribbean stuff), you either need some black-skinned people to be native to the islands, change the background, or have another way to have black-skinned people migrate in. How about having gnomes be common in the southern area and then creating a group of gnomes that have either helped (or forced) humans from Katashaka to get onto some of the islands that you want to have a Caribbean feel. I think that non-Lantanese gnomes could be the key for connecting a "displaced Africa" and a "modified Caribbean" together.
The original Jamacans, Bahamians, and Hatians were Native Americans and not blacks. Blacks got there because the Native Americans(Indians) did not make good slaves, they kept dying of European diseases, and so the colonists who wanted to run the plantations in the Carribean brought in slaves from Africa. Why is it a problem to have the Amnites do the same? There is some location the the Forgotten Realms that corresponds to Africa isn't there? The point is that without slavery, there would be little reason for most of the inhabitants of a number of Carribean islands to be black.
It might even be more interesting to have a Caribbean culture that is not tied to slavery. Perhaps there could be a Katashaka empire of "African-ised" gnomes that tie into some of the mythology of Africa somehow. They could have an empire that includes humans (and maybe other races) and could at some point have a force that rows north to try to invade Lopongo and Maztica. Give them several (failed) attempts to break into the northern lands and they could settle on some of the islands instead. You could then have a mixture between Katashaka-humans and Mezoamerican-humans to give you a similar sort of mix to what the Caribbean islands actually have.
Somehow, I have difficulty picturing the Amnites wanting to have Gnomes to be slaves, for one thing they are small, and wouldn't be able to do as much work as a human could, in fact the most likely race for the Amnites to makes slaves out of would be Orcs, as they get bonuses to strength and could do the heavy lifting that some humans and definitely gnomes could not do. Also Orcs and humans don't typically get along in Faerun, so humans would have plenty of reason to try and enslave them.
SJR2 Realmspace has some pretty aggressive halflings on Anadia, so perhaps you could look to that for inspiration for what to do with gnomes. Or perhaps Katashaka could have both gnomes and halflings (and maybe even dwarves) filling in for the role of pigmies. You would obviously need to take care (more care than me) to stop it being cheesy, but it could be an opportunity to give all these demi-human races homelands in that area of Toril.
Diminutive races don't make very good slaves, they would die more quickly than humans would having to perform the same work. A Halfling is the size of a child, standing 3 feet tall, I have problems picturing a human plantation owner sitting on his front porch drinkin mint julips, and a bunch of 3-foot-tall halflings work his fields to bring in the tobacco or cotton, this just doesn't make any sense to me.
I know that modern South America has more of a racial mix, and I think that you could have a racial mix for some of the islands and nations or a cross race mix with Mezoamerican or Amerindian half-elves or other combinations. You could even use the muls (half dwarf/half human) from Dark Sun.
How about this for an idea, what if we made the Northern Continent something like Narnia from the movie The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe? Imagine a continent where humans are scarce and instead we have centaurs, minotaurs, and other sorts of wild creatures in charge of a wilderness continent. Not exactly like C.S. Lewis' Narnia of course, but perhaps something like that to a degree. Lets see, Centaurs, Unicorns, Griffens, Giant Eagles, Orcs, Goblins, Minotaurs, mermaids, dragons, giants, and intelligent talking animals like beavers and wolves, how does that sound?

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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Big Mac »

Tom Kalbfus wrote:The original Jamacans, Bahamians, and Hatians were Native Americans and not blacks. Blacks got there because the Native Americans(Indians) did not make good slaves, they kept dying of European diseases, and so the colonists who wanted to run the plantations in the Carribean brought in slaves from Africa. Why is it a problem to have the Amnites do the same? There is some location the the Forgotten Realms that corresponds to Africa isn't there? The point is that without slavery, there would be little reason for most of the inhabitants of a number of Carribean islands to be black.
I do know about real-world slavery. The problem is that with Zakkhara not being Africa and the Toril analogue of Africa actually being Katashaka (which for those who have not read the thread is an island south of Lopongo and Maztica) the link to real-world culture does not stretch that far. You can't have the Amnians picking up people from Katashaka and taking them to those islands. They would need to import slaves from elsewhere.

To be honest, the area could be done without adding in black slaves, and Seethyr could instead just have more Mezoamericans on the islands. However, I got the idea that his duppies were routed with the culture created when African people were taken to a Mezoamerican island. I guess it is his call.
Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Big Mac wrote:It might even be more interesting to have a Caribbean culture that is not tied to slavery. Perhaps there could be a Katashaka empire of "African-ised" gnomes that tie into some of the mythology of Africa somehow. They could have an empire that includes humans (and maybe other races) and could at some point have a force that rows north to try to invade Lopongo and Maztica. Give them several (failed) attempts to break into the northern lands and they could settle on some of the islands instead. You could then have a mixture between Katashaka-humans and Mezoamerican-humans to give you a similar sort of mix to what the Caribbean islands actually have.
Somehow, I have difficulty picturing the Amnites wanting to have Gnomes to be slaves, for one thing they are small, and wouldn't be able to do as much work as a human could, in fact the most likely race for the Amnites to makes slaves out of would be Orcs, as they get bonuses to strength and could do the heavy lifting that some humans and definitely gnomes could not do. Also Orcs and humans don't typically get along in Faerun, so humans would have plenty of reason to try and enslave them.
I was thinking of gnomes as slavers, rather than slaves. Perhaps I did not make myself clear. I was thinking of a powerful gnome race from Katashaka that made several migrations north.
Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Big Mac wrote:SJR2 Realmspace has some pretty aggressive halflings on Anadia, so perhaps you could look to that for inspiration for what to do with gnomes. Or perhaps Katashaka could have both gnomes and halflings (and maybe even dwarves) filling in for the role of pigmies. You would obviously need to take care (more care than me) to stop it being cheesy, but it could be an opportunity to give all these demi-human races homelands in that area of Toril.
Diminutive races don't make very good slaves, they would die more quickly than humans would having to perform the same work. A Halfling is the size of a child, standing 3 feet tall, I have problems picturing a human plantation owner sitting on his front porch drinkin mint julips, and a bunch of 3-foot-tall halflings work his fields to bring in the tobacco or cotton, this just doesn't make any sense to me.
Again, these Anadian-halflings are slavers - not slaves.

I think that Seethyr was shooting for having an area north of Maztica that did not have a large amount of Faerunians in it. So I'm guessing that "white folk running plantations full of black slaves" might not be a best fit. I was trying to offer an alternative to that sort of thing. Maybe my alternative is not workable. I'll wait to see what Seethyr says.
Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Big Mac wrote:I know that modern South America has more of a racial mix, and I think that you could have a racial mix for some of the islands and nations or a cross race mix with Mezoamerican or Amerindian half-elves or other combinations. You could even use the muls (half dwarf/half human) from Dark Sun.
How about this for an idea, what if we made the Northern Continent something like Narnia from the movie The Lion, The Witch, and the Wardrobe? Imagine a continent where humans are scarce and instead we have centaurs, minotaurs, and other sorts of wild creatures in charge of a wilderness continent. Not exactly like C.S. Lewis' Narnia of course, but perhaps something like that to a degree. Lets see, Centaurs, Unicorns, Griffens, Giant Eagles, Orcs, Goblins, Minotaurs, mermaids, dragons, giants, and intelligent talking animals like beavers and wolves, how does that sound?
I was talking about the islands.

I suppose that races similar to some of the ones from the Narnia novels could be used in some of the Northern Continent. It could make up for the fact that the Maztica line was dominated by humans.

The hurwaet from MC7 Spelljammer Appendix was actually based on a creature, called a marsh-wiggle, from the Chronicles of Nartia books.
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Tom Kalbfus »

I'm trying to picture halflings and gnomes enslaving humans, and I'm having just a little bit of difficulty with this imagine. Could you imagine halfling and gnome slaver ships descending on Waterdeep to capture those humans living there and shipping them to the New World in chains to work on the gnome and halfling run plantations there? I couldn't. One possibility would be to use magic to charm humans into slavery, but that would require alot of gnome and halfling wizards and sorcerers to accomplish this task, and usually D&D isn't this magic heavy with races such as gnomes and halflings. I could imagine surface dwelling cousins of the drow doing this perhaps. Cultures that have slavery tend to be more evil in alignment in fantasy traditions than cultures which do not have this institution. The races which have slavery tend to be the aforementioned drow, and also orcs, gnolls, hobgoblins, as well as illithids (mindflayers) and the like, humans partake of it to a lesser extend, elves probably not much, neither do dwarves, halflings, gnomes, and other races with good alignment tendencies.

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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Big Mac »

You could just have some humans migrate north from Katashaka then, Tom. But there should be some gnomes in the region to fit in with Lantan.
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Tom Kalbfus »

Big Mac wrote:You could just have some humans migrate north from Katashaka then, Tom. But there should be some gnomes in the region to fit in with Lantan.
Katashaka is the displaced Africa right? More precisely Subsaharan Africa.

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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

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Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Big Mac wrote:You could just have some humans migrate north from Katashaka then, Tom. But there should be some gnomes in the region to fit in with Lantan.
Katashaka is the displaced Africa right? More precisely Subsaharan Africa.
Yes. It is the island-continent below Lopongo. The one that has replaced South America's position.

If you have an Africa-like continent close to some Caribbean-like islands, you could have African-like people in both places without needing to involve anyone from Faerun (or Zakhara).
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Tom Kalbfus »

Big Mac wrote:
Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Big Mac wrote:You could just have some humans migrate north from Katashaka then, Tom. But there should be some gnomes in the region to fit in with Lantan.
Katashaka is the displaced Africa right? More precisely Subsaharan Africa.
Yes. It is the island-continent below Lopongo. The one that has replaced South America's position.

If you have an Africa-like continent close to some Caribbean-like islands, you could have African-like people in both places without needing to involve anyone from Faerun (or Zakhara).
Those Africa like people probably came through some magic gates from the real Africa, otherwise they wouldn't be so different from the people of Maztica, you'd have an "Africa" populated by American Indians with Elephants, tigers, lions, giraffes, and gorillas and chimpazees. Typically in Earth history humans come out of Africa and from there move to Europe and Asia, and from Asia they move to the New World and then spread southward to North and South America. Zakhara is basically North Africa seperate from the Southern Africa represented by Katashaka.

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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Big Mac »

Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Tom Kalbfus wrote:
Big Mac wrote:You could just have some humans migrate north from Katashaka then, Tom. But there should be some gnomes in the region to fit in with Lantan.
Katashaka is the displaced Africa right? More precisely Subsaharan Africa.
Yes. It is the island-continent below Lopongo. The one that has replaced South America's position.

If you have an Africa-like continent close to some Caribbean-like islands, you could have African-like people in both places without needing to involve anyone from Faerun (or Zakhara).
Those Africa like people probably came through some magic gates from the real Africa, otherwise they wouldn't be so different from the people of Maztica, you'd have an "Africa" populated by American Indians with Elephants, tigers, lions, giraffes, and gorillas and chimpazees. Typically in Earth history humans come out of Africa and from there move to Europe and Asia, and from Asia they move to the New World and then spread southward to North and South America. Zakhara is basically North Africa seperate from the Southern Africa represented by Katashaka.
I believe the main reason for Forgotten Realms having that name was something to do with it once being connected to the real world, as well as lots of other planets. I know that the Mulhorandi (Egyptian-like people) were hijacked from another world and dumped on Toril. Having the same thing happen in Katashaka could be a logical way to go.

Mind you, we have to remember that Toril is a fantasy world and that it does not necessarily have certain real-world things like evolution. So what we think of as the natural migration of the people of the Earth and the mutations that changed some of us into the various human racial groups may not be applicable on Toril. In a universe where the gods can create elves and then send them to the planet, they can probably also create all of the human subgroups in the blink of an eye and have them all get transported to multiple worlds.

I'm not too aware of the African creation myths, but if Katashaka was to be created, I think they (rather than real-world facts) might be more useful tools for working out how to create the area.

One thing I would say for real-world Africa is that the current thinking is that the human race originated there and migrated out of the area to (eventually) colonise the entire world. So perhaps the natives of Katashaka could have migrated there from another planet or an outer plane where the African-like pantheon was worshipped. So I think the idea is do-able.
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

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The "Africa analog" of the Realms would be the Chult peninsula. Not just the jungles at the end, but the nations that run the length of the peninsula all the way into the grasslands of Shaar.

The world of origin for the Mulan people (Unther & Mulhorand) would be a little blue ball called "Earth". ;)
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Princess Strega »

night_druid wrote:The "Africa analog" of the Realms would be the Chult peninsula. Not just the jungles at the end, but the nations that run the length of the peninsula all the way into the grasslands of Shaar.

The world of origin for the Mulan people (Unther & Mulhorand) would be a little blue ball called "Earth". ;)
Where's the ability to like a post when you need it?

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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by night_druid »

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:Where's the ability to like a post when you need it?
Heh. Of course, now I'm wondering, given what the Spellplague did to the Old Empires (basically...EXTERMINATE!!!), I could see the survivors getting ahold of a few spelljammers and the Barge of the Gods and set off in search of a shining planet...Earth.

:mrgreen:
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by BlackBat242 »

There is no Spellplague (nor a Time of Troubles, either).

These are the work of writers of fantastic tales, that have been taken by the gullible as "ancient truths".

The multiverse is as it was in the beginning.


;)
Catapultam habeo. Nisi pecuniam omnem mihi dabis, ad caput tuum saxum immane mittam.
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Tom Kalbfus »

BlackBat242 wrote:There is no Spellplague (nor a Time of Troubles, either).
There's got to be some troubles, having an Idyllic Life makes for a boring basis in a role playing game. I'm sure the Mazticans will have troubles aplenty.
These are the work of writers of fantastic tales, that have been taken by the gullible as "ancient truths".

The multiverse is as it was in the beginning.


;)

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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Big Mac »

BlackBat242 wrote:There is no Spellplague (nor a Time of Troubles, either).

These are the work of writers of fantastic tales, that have been taken by the gullible as "ancient truths".

The multiverse is as it was in the beginning.
Did the Time of Troubles actually have an effect on Maztica?

From what I can tell (of how Maztica and Faerun works) Ao would have control over both of them. If the Time of Troubles was an event designed to force the gods of the Faerunian Pantheon, would it actually affect Maztica? Or would Ao, wrap some sort of magical bubble around Maztica and isolate it from the ToT effect?

It would be interesting to see if there is any canon to support a Maztican god being involved in the events of the Time of Troubles.

If there is no canon there, it would be nice to speculate on what Maztica would be like with and without its own version of the Time of Troubles.

As for the Spellplague (and I speak as someone that does not possess the 4e FRCG) what canon evidence do we have to show how this spread throughout the world? Do we have anything to show that it got off of the surface of the planet and went to Selune, the Tears of Selune or any of the other worlds of Realmspace?

If Maztica was swapped out for Abeir, maybe they didn't see fit to do anything about messing with the people there first. Again, I think this is something we could work on in another thread. IIRC, Abeir was in another plane of existence (or another demi-plane) then maybe Maztica could turn into a Planejammer setting.
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Seethyr »

If my endless thread bumping is causing an issue, please give me a virtual slap and I will gladly crawl into my little hidey hole for a bit!
Disappearing for a few years certainly does give you some stuff to catch up on though!

This might actually be my favorite thread to look back on. It is making me proud to see what actually made it to "print." I'd like to start by going through the original poll and seeing how each part actually ended up, then I'll post the newer version of what might one day get completed. Even if they never do, its fun to think that there is such a big library yet unwritten. :D

The Land of the Holy Sun - A Guide to Lopango
This became Netbook III: Lopango - Land of the Sacred Sun and is linked in my sig. :)

Claw and Venom: The Scorpionfolk of the True World
This became Netbook IV: Claw and Sting - Scorpionfolk of the True World

Myths and Legends of the True World
The two that were written ended up in Itla Tlayohua - Something Dark.

Remnants of the Past: Ruin based Adventures in the True World
The two that were written ended up in Itla Tlayohua - Something Dark, again.

Blood Offering Adventure
In Itla Tlayohua!

Islands of the True World
Never saw the light of day (yet) but I have a lot of notes and donated artwork ready to go.

The Great Pyramid: Maztica and Planescape
Became The Great Skyhome - Maztica and Spelljammer

Fangs and Feathers: A Guide to Hishna and Pluma Magic
Still on the priority list! With 5e ready to go soon, this will be all the more fun to tackle.

So here is the new crop. Many have been started! Ideas/material is always welcome!

Netbook VI - Maztica Basic
This book will attempt to do what D&D Basic is attempting for the game in general. The format will be similar and hopefully it will introduce a new generation of fans to the True World.

Netbook VII - Azure Skies (Novel)
This novel will be Maztica's "Sundering" novel, featuring a chosen of Qotal and a return to Toril as a backdrop.

Netbook VIII - White Sands and Turquoise Waters - Islands of the True World
The True World's answer to the myths and legends of islands like Jamaica and the Bahamas.

Netbook IX - Anchorome
A guidebook to major settlements of the northern continent. Based off of FMQ1 City of Gold and the mythology/culture of Native Americans.

Netbook X - The Seventeen Tenemos
A guide to the afterlife for Mazticans and its planar cosmology.

Netbook XI - Fangs and Feathers - Hishna and Pluma Magic
A deeper look into the magic, magical items and spellcasters of the Maztica setting.

Netbook XII - Gill and Scales - Undersea Kingdoms of the True World
All of the major undersea settlements including the sahuagin, ixitxachitl and particularly the shalarin of the sea of Corynactis.

Netbook XIII - Katashaka
The guidebook for the southern Africa based continent of Katashaka. This is where the Sleeper (the dreaded Tarrasque) will be found in the Realms!

Netbook XIV - Mezospace
An entire crystal sphere for the Spelljammer setting with entire WORLDS based on mesoamerican cultures. Can be loosely connected to Maztica.

Netbook XV - Domincus
A Ravenloft crossover with Maztica. A new domain in Ravenloft whose darklord betrayed Cordell and pushed for the eradication of the Maztican people. His hatred was so deep after the sacrifice of his daughter and his own subsequent sacrifice that he arose as powerful undead and was drawn into the mists.


[EDIT] At some point I think an Arcane Age Maztica would be amazing, even just a short article.
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Havard »

There are no rules against thread bumping on The Piazza. :)

Your planned projects all sound awesome, but I am especially interested in this one:
Seethyr wrote:Netbook VI - Maztica Basic
This book will attempt to do what D&D Basic is attempting for the game in general. The format will be similar and hopefully it will introduce a new generation of fans to the True World.


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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Seethyr »

Havard wrote:There are no rules against thread bumping on The Piazza. :)
I took such a beating for this on another forum once, in my freshmen days of posting, that I have become totally gun shy. It was really bad! :lol:
Havard wrote: Your planned projects all sound awesome, but I am especially interested in this one:
Seethyr wrote:Netbook VI - Maztica Basic
This book will attempt to do what D&D Basic is attempting for the game in general. The format will be similar and hopefully it will introduce a new generation of fans to the True World.


-Havard
I am really going to consider this the most important one without a doubt. Let's be honest...there isn't, as far as I know, a massive population of gamers who run their campaigns primarily in Maztica. It is an old setting that was really niche even to start off with. All I have ever wanted to do was change that and I think this might be the best opportunity in years. I would LOVE for someone to do this in another setting <cough>Mystara<cough> so that I could jump right in and actually know what was going on. Is that what you were trying to go for actually in this thread?
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by night_druid »

Seethyr wrote:
Havard wrote:There are no rules against thread bumping on The Piazza. :)
I took such a beating for this on another forum once, in my freshmen days of posting, that I have become totally gun shy. It was really bad! :lol:
Some forums have a 'no bumping' policy in place due to problems with posters bumping threads with 'I agree'-style comments to inflate their post-counts. I think that problem as a whole has diminished, and Piazza has not really had a problem with it.

I am really going to consider this the most important one without a doubt. Let's be honest...there isn't, as far as I know, a massive population of gamers who run their campaigns primarily in Maztica. It is an old setting that was really niche even to start off with. All I have ever wanted to do was change that and I think this might be the best opportunity in years. I would LOVE for someone to do this in another setting <cough>Mystara<cough> so that I could jump right in and actually know what was going on. Is that what you were trying to go for actually in this thread?
To me, the biggest obstacle to a Maztica game (beyond having regular gaming groups) is that there's a lack of adventures out there with a good Maztica theme, to tie together into a campaign. That, and I'd think there would be a great desire for PCs to explore a bit, so there would need to be some fairly swift modes of transport available so they can go out and do stuff. :)
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Seethyr »

night_druid wrote: To me, the biggest obstacle to a Maztica game (beyond having regular gaming groups) is that there's a lack of adventures out there with a good Maztica theme, to tie together into a campaign.
Which is so strange because of the unreal amount of untapped potential. Yeah, that needs to be remedied.
night_druid wrote: That, and I'd think there would be a great desire for PCs to explore a bit, so there would need to be some fairly swift modes of transport available so they can go out and do stuff. :)
A system of portals left from the Aeree days could suffice! Batrachi even.
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by night_druid »

Seethyr wrote:Which is so strange because of the unreal amount of untapped potential. Yeah, that needs to be remedied.
Oh certainly, but I think that, with Maztica being fairly "alien" to most gamers, a bit of guidance towards running a successful Maztica campaign would help, along with plenty of place-set modules ala things like Keep on the Borderlands.
A system of portals left from the Aeree days could suffice! Batrachi even.
Hadrosaur-drawn carriages would work, too...;)
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Big Mac »

Seethyr wrote:If my endless thread bumping is causing an issue, please give me a virtual slap and I will gladly crawl into my little hidey hole for a bit!
Disappearing for a few years certainly does give you some stuff to catch up on though!
IMO, bumping old topics (with relevant information) is the only way for sub-communities that follow obscure D&D settings and products to come together and grow. Online communties need new members to grow and if a new person joins a forum and has an interest in things that were discussed years back, I really don't see the logic in telling them off for being interested in something that was discussed before they arrive. (Although it might be appropriate to let them know that the discussion is so old that the people who started it might not be around, or might not remember everything they were discussing.)

I think that the lack of "thread necromancy" bans at The Piazza has really helped this forum go beyond the small number of campaign settings that were supported on the Other Worlds section of the Wizards COMmunity Boards/Gleemax and grow into a place that supports the much larger number of campaign settings (and rules systems) you see today. (And even when a sub-community hits critical mass and moves up through the 100 topic/1,000 post level, you will still find niche areas within that setting/system that many fans ignore. So thread necromancy is still potentially "helpful" to a community.)

There is also the fact that some random newbie might stumble across a long unanswered question and actually be able to solve a problem that has bugged the orginal poster for years.

There are times when people can abuse the bumping of old topics, but a general fear of being told off for signing up to a community and joining in with an open discussion is something that discourages growth. So a blanked ban on "thread necromancy" is bad for the community, it's bad for the person making the post and it's bad for the original poster.

Your bump here certainly has some useful information that I had not seen before. (And I missed this, when you posted it, so it's my turn to bump it with questions.)
Seethyr wrote:Islands of the True World
Never saw the light of day (yet) but I have a lot of notes and donated artwork ready to go.
Are these islands to the east or west of Maztica? (Or both sides of it?)
Seethyr wrote:The Great Pyramid: Maztica and Planescape
Became The Great Skyhome - Maztica and Spelljammer
Wow! So Spelljammer "stole" this from Planescape. (Sorry Planescape! :lol: )

Maybe we should have a discussion about the Forgotten Realms cosmology (2e, 3e, 4e and 5e - if anything has been published for that) and how Maztica would connect to that. I don't know if Abeir was supposed to be an Alternate Material Plane, before it merged with Toril, but perhaps a discussion that focuses strictly on the planes might be useful in deciding how this stuff should fit into Maztica.
Seethyr wrote:Fangs and Feathers: A Guide to Hishna and Pluma Magic
Still on the priority list! With 5e ready to go soon, this will be all the more fun to tackle.
That does sound fun. Maybe you could build bits in public.

Have you looked at that combination of Hishna and Pluma that was hinted at in the Maztica novels (with the character that learned both Jaguar Knight and Eagle Knight skills). I think that more could potentially be done with that.

Maztica seems to have taken away the idea of wizards, because they don't really fit so well, but I wonder if 3rd Edition's sorcerers could be given a Maztica makover. Failing that, how about Eberron's Artificer class (which focuses on building things with magical properties, rather than casting spells). Something similar to that (not that exactly) might be a really good replacement for a wizard.
Seethyr wrote:So here is the new crop. Many have been started! Ideas/material is always welcome!

Netbook VI - Maztica Basic
This book will attempt to do what D&D Basic is attempting for the game in general. The format will be similar and hopefully it will introduce a new generation of fans to the True World.
That's out now. :cool:
Seethyr wrote:Netbook VII - Azure Skies (Novel)
This novel will be Maztica's "Sundering" novel, featuring a chosen of Qotal and a return to Toril as a backdrop.

Netbook VIII - White Sands and Turquoise Waters - Islands of the True World
The True World's answer to the myths and legends of islands like Jamaica and the Bahamas.
Did this change into TWC4 Esmeralda - Island of Revolution and Supernatural Threats or are there other islands to come?
Seethyr wrote:Netbook IX - Anchorome
A guidebook to major settlements of the northern continent. Based off of FMQ1 City of Gold and the mythology/culture of Native Americans.
I've just been reading your topic about this. :)
Seethyr wrote:Netbook X - The Seventeen Tenemos
A guide to the afterlife for Mazticans and its planar cosmology.
17 huh?

Three thoughts:
  • If you are going to include cosmology for the other regions around Maztica (Anchorome, the islands and Katashaka) then you probably should bump this down to the end of the schedule and
  • You might need to make some of the Tenemos into "layers" rather than full planes, in order to get this to be compatible with the Great Wheel.
  • I don't know how the 4e and 5e cosmology differs from the 1e/2e/3e/Planescape cosmology, but I suggest you add a couple of sidebars to explain "alternative cosmology models" that cover any differences.
Netbook XI - Fangs and Feathers - Hishna and Pluma Magic
A deeper look into the magic, magical items and spellcasters of the Maztica setting.[/quote]

Nice name! :cool:

I think you should have a section about magical rituals and places of power. For example, I think that sacrificing hearts allows for the harvesting of some sort of mystical energy. There are festivals in the calendar for the special days. They must have some sort of effect (stopping the world blowing up, IIRC). And of course you have the drow doing something special inside a volcano in the novels. But maybe there are some more rituals and/or places of power that I don't know about.

Seethyr wrote:Netbook XII - Gill and Scales - Undersea Kingdoms of the True World
All of the major undersea settlements including the sahuagin, ixitxachitl and particularly the shalarin of the sea of Corynactis.


I'll be interested to see what sort of underwater weapons you come up with. :)

Are there going to be underwater versions of Hishna and Pluma magic? Things like sharks have teeth, but there are no feathers. Would something like coral or sea plants work? Or would the underwater people want to capture seagulls and/or penguins?

Seethyr wrote:Netbook XIII - Katashaka
The guidebook for the southern Africa based continent of Katashaka. This is where the Sleeper (the dreaded Tarrasque) will be found in the Realms!


That's something that could work well with Nyambe, if you were not trying to go with DMs Guild. It's probably going to need its own religious system, magic and cosmology.

Seethyr wrote:Netbook XIV - Mezospace
An entire crystal sphere for the Spelljammer setting with entire WORLDS based on mesoamerican cultures. Can be loosely connected to Maztica.


I'd be surprised if you could get this onto DMs Guild before they open it up to Spelljammer. But a good hook for a crystal sphere connected to Maztica, would probably to go with the concept of people being brought to Maztica from another world (with that world being the main world in another crystal sphere). If you don't want to make all of the people of Maztica come from another world, you could pick one or more races to come in. (You could even have Mezoamerican humans coming into a Maztica that already had other Mezoamerican humans living in it. Going with the races that have pyramids could be a way to have some Mezoamerican people be the "special" ones that came in, as part of an attempt to colonise multiple worlds.)

Seethyr wrote:Netbook XV - Domincus
A Ravenloft crossover with Maztica. A new domain in Ravenloft whose darklord betrayed Cordell and pushed for the eradication of the Maztican people. His hatred was so deep after the sacrifice of his daughter and his own subsequent sacrifice that he arose as powerful undead and was drawn into the mists.



Now that Ravenloft is on DMs Guild, a Maztica/Ravenloft crossover should be OK with them. :)

I wonder if you have to include the Amnians in a Ravenloft theme. There are a lot of things that the Aztecs said they needed to do to stop the world being destroyed. Why not make one of the former destroyed worlds (Suns?) into your Ravenloft domain? (Or why not make all of them into domains?) Maybe not the whole world, but the part of the world that "let the side down".

Seethyr wrote:[EDIT] At some point I think an Arcane Age Maztica would be amazing, even just a short article.


It would be good to not have Amnians involved.

How about going back to the period, where Maztica's answer to the Aztecs had just arrived and decided to build a city on a lake?
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Re: What would you like to see next from "Maztica Alive!."

Post by Seethyr »

Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:If my endless thread bumping is causing an issue, please give me a virtual slap and I will gladly crawl into my little hidey hole for a bit!
Disappearing for a few years certainly does give you some stuff to catch up on though!
IMO, bumping old topics (with relevant information) is the only way for sub-communities that follow obscure D&D settings and products to come together and grow. Online communties need new members to grow and if a new person joins a forum and has an interest in things that were discussed years back, I really don't see the logic in telling them off for being interested in something that was discussed before they arrive. (Although it might be appropriate to let them know that the discussion is so old that the people who started it might not be around, or might not remember everything they were discussing.)

I think that the lack of "thread necromancy" bans at The Piazza has really helped this forum go beyond the small number of campaign settings that were supported on the Other Worlds section of the Wizards COMmunity Boards/Gleemax and grow into a place that supports the much larger number of campaign settings (and rules systems) you see today. (And even when a sub-community hits critical mass and moves up through the 100 topic/1,000 post level, you will still find niche areas within that setting/system that many fans ignore. So thread necromancy is still potentially "helpful" to a community.)

There is also the fact that some random newbie might stumble across a long unanswered question and actually be able to solve a problem that has bugged the orginal poster for years.

There are times when people can abuse the bumping of old topics, but a general fear of being told off for signing up to a community and joining in with an open discussion is something that discourages growth. So a blanked ban on "thread necromancy" is bad for the community, it's bad for the person making the post and it's bad for the original poster.

Your bump here certainly has some useful information that I had not seen before. (And I missed this, when you posted it, so it's my turn to bump it with questions.)
Long ago when I first started on forums, I literally got beat the heck out of by a an actual moderator. He was rude, condescending, and in some ways downright cruel. I do not post on that forum anymore, which is kind of a shame because there seems to be some intelligent discussion that goes on there. It has made me extremely gun-shy though and I'm extraordinarily careful to follow the rules verbatim now. Kind of sucks, it was my worst experience on forums.
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:Islands of the True World
Never saw the light of day (yet) but I have a lot of notes and donated artwork ready to go.
Are these islands to the east or west of Maztica? (Or both sides of it?)
This project morphed into my "White Sands and Turquiose Waters" project that never got finished. One day I will revisit it. Every year I go to the Caribbean in the summer and I usually come back just dying to finish this one. I had no set location for the islands other than wanting them to be based off of Jamaican/Bahamian/Arawak/Carib myth. The research phase was daunting but incredibly interesting. Did you know the word hurricane comes from the name of the violent weather god Juracan?

Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:The Great Pyramid: Maztica and Planescape
Became The Great Skyhome - Maztica and Spelljammer
Wow! So Spelljammer "stole" this from Planescape. (Sorry Planescape! :lol: )
Yeah, when first writing the campaign guide I contemplated where I wanted the gods to come from initially. I liked the story of Ptah delivering the Mulhorandi gods to Toril on a ship, so I "stole" that idea for Quetzalcouatl/Qotal etc.
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:Fangs and Feathers: A Guide to Hishna and Pluma Magic
Still on the priority list! With 5e ready to go soon, this will be all the more fun to tackle.
That does sound fun. Maybe you could build bits in public.

Have you looked at that combination of Hishna and Pluma that was hinted at in the Maztica novels (with the character that learned both Jaguar Knight and Eagle Knight skills). I think that more could potentially be done with that.

Maztica seems to have taken away the idea of wizards, because they don't really fit so well, but I wonder if 3rd Edition's sorcerers could be given a Maztica makover. Failing that, how about Eberron's Artificer class (which focuses on building things with magical properties, rather than casting spells). Something similar to that (not that exactly) might be a really good replacement for a wizard.
Actually finished Feathers and Fangs a few months ago. I had a blast writing up new spells and people seem to like it.

As far as combining hishna/pluma, I developed a type or sorcerer that came new on the scene in the Maztica Campaign Guide known as the Nahual who use both magics. Wizards had also been developed (plumacaster and hishnacaster) when plumaweavers and hishnashapers utilized techniques taught to them by the Amnians to develop their magic further than had ever been done in the past.

I also used artificer rules (rewritten and modified to the point that they are unrecognizeable) for the plumaweaver/hishnashaper update in the campaign guide.
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:So here is the new crop. Many have been started! Ideas/material is always welcome!
Its time for the new new crop I believe!
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:Netbook VII - Azure Skies (Novel)
This novel will be Maztica's "Sundering" novel, featuring a chosen of Qotal and a return to Toril as a backdrop.

Netbook VIII - White Sands and Turquoise Waters - Islands of the True World
The True World's answer to the myths and legends of islands like Jamaica and the Bahamas.
Did this change into TWC4 Esmeralda - Island of Revolution and Supernatural Threats or are there other islands to come?
Azure Skies is actually completed and my first attempt at fiction. It follows the format of the various Sundering novels, but is set in the True World. The islands again, are an incomplete project. Nicolas Carillo's amazing Esmeralda came about completely independently - I fisrst saw his work posted on the Maztica Alive! Yahoo page.
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:Netbook X - The Seventeen Tenemos
A guide to the afterlife for Mazticans and its planar cosmology.
17 huh?
Yeah, these are actually official from the MAztica Boxed set. At that time, they were portions of layers from planes on the Great Wheel but I hated that. The whole concept of Thor hobnobbing with Quetzalcouatl and Kali sharing a cup of tea with Zaltec has driven me nuts since 2nd edition. I've intentionally left it vague enough that readers can treat the planes however they want, but in my mind it is a whole seperate cosmology, possibly formed by demiplanes. this has precedent in the demiplane of Wenimats described in FMQ1.
Big Mac wrote: Three thoughts:
  • If you are going to include cosmology for the other regions around Maztica (Anchorome, the islands and Katashaka) then you probably should bump this down to the end of the schedule and
It's going to be a fun project, but like you said, it is low on the priority list. If I complete Anchorome and Katashaka, this would come after.
Big Mac wrote:
[*]I don't know how the 4e and 5e cosmology differs from the 1e/2e/3e/Planescape cosmology, but I suggest you add a couple of sidebars to explain "alternative cosmology models" that cover any differences.[/list]
Good idea. I might actually devote a whole section to it, though this is definitely a project that is far, far away.
Big Mac wrote:
I think you should have a section about magical rituals and places of power. For example, I think that sacrificing hearts allows for the harvesting of some sort of mystical energy. There are festivals in the calendar for the special days. They must have some sort of effect (stopping the world blowing up, IIRC). And of course you have the drow doing something special inside a volcano in the novels. But maybe there are some more rituals and/or places of power that I don't know about.


That volcano is the center of a whole megadungeon project that Dazzlerdal and I have been putting together. I am frozen on it because I am finding it impossible to find someone willing to make a megadungeon map that it would require (I don't blame them!). The lore is there though, and I have a lot of good artwork saved for it.
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:Netbook XII - Gill and Scales - Undersea Kingdoms of the True World
All of the major undersea settlements including the sahuagin, ixitxachitl and particularly the shalarin of the sea of Corynactis.
I'll be interested to see what sort of underwater weapons you come up with. :)

Are there going to be underwater versions of Hishna and Pluma magic? Things like sharks have teeth, but there are no feathers. Would something like coral or sea plants work? Or would the underwater people want to capture seagulls and/or penguins?
Argh you have rekindled my interest! I can't afford the time to start another project, LOL. :lol: :lol: :lol:

All joking aside, I might just take notes and save them for way down the road. You have me thinking about obsidian tridents formed from underwater geysers and volcanos in the deepest of trenches. Perhaps they function like natural plumastone?
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:Netbook XIII - Katashaka
The guidebook for the southern Africa based continent of Katashaka. This is where the Sleeper (the dreaded Tarrasque) will be found in the Realms!
That's something that could work well with Nyambe, if you were not trying to go with DMs Guild. It's probably going to need its own religious system, magic and cosmology.
After Anchorome, this is the only regional book left before all of the True World is covered. I will heavily draw on inspiration from Nyambe...I love that setting.
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:Netbook XV - Domincus
A Ravenloft crossover with Maztica. A new domain in Ravenloft whose darklord betrayed Cordell and pushed for the eradication of the Maztican people. His hatred was so deep after the sacrifice of his daughter and his own subsequent sacrifice that he arose as powerful undead and was drawn into the mists.

Now that Ravenloft is on DMs Guild, a Maztica/Ravenloft crossover should be OK with them. :)

I wonder if you have to include the Amnians in a Ravenloft theme. There are a lot of things that the Aztecs said they needed to do to stop the world being destroyed. Why not make one of the former destroyed worlds (Suns?) into your Ravenloft domain? (Or why not make all of them into domains?) Maybe not the whole world, but the part of the world that "let the side down".
Bishou Domincus, I believe, makes the perfect Darklord. Betrayal, sacrifice, intense racial prejudice, twisted religion used only to justify hatred...he has all the makings of a truly monstrous evil. I think he could be the one spreading the false rumors about the "world's destruction" causing an endless stream of sacrifice in his dark realm.
Big Mac wrote:
Seethyr wrote:[EDIT] At some point I think an Arcane Age Maztica would be amazing, even just a short article.
It would be good to not have Amnians involved.
I have been working hard to minimize the Amnians' influence, even in modern day Maztica.
Big Mac wrote: How about going back to the period, where Maztica's answer to the Aztecs had just arrived and decided to build a city on a lake?
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Funny you should say this, it is essentially what the Mazticans did (following actual Aztec history) to the original inhabitants of the Nexal Valley. The Mazticans eventually dominated the valley and began to spread outwards in a continent-spanning empire.
Follow the Maztica (Aztez/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!

The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign

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