The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

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The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by Big Mac » Tue May 17, 2016 9:26 pm

The Elemental Plane of Fire, is one of the four important Inner Planes, but how do you use this plane in a Planescape campaign?

It's full of...well fire...and fire damages most D&D races and monster races and burns up their equipment. There is magic to reduce fire damage or get rid of it, but it's fairly high powered stuff. That seems to make the Elemental Plane of Fire into a place that would automatically TPK groups that have not gained lots of character levels and advanced magic.

Has anyone ever found a way to use the Elemental Plane of Fire in a low-level campaign? It seems to me that you have a TPK effect waving over the players, and that the only way to get rid of the looming TPK is to use an obvious hand-wave that holds back the TPK effect. So how do you keep the feel of the Elemental Plane of Fire being powerful and dangerous and avoid the players feeling that the GM is "fudging things" to keep the PCs alive?

Also, has anyone ever run a Planescape campaign that features planetouched races that exist naturally on the Elemental Plane of Fire? If so, did those PCs have problems travelling to other Inner and Outer planes, without getting damaged by cold, water, ice and other things that are the "opposite" of fire?
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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by Tim Baker » Tue May 17, 2016 9:32 pm

I found that having the PCs visit a (relatively) safe spot, such as the City of Brass can communicate how alien and deadly the plane is, without actually wiping the party out. Risk of being tossed outside the protective magic barriers is akin to being tossed out the airlock of a spaceship. It makes for a different style of play when the PCs can afford to be forcibly ejected from the city.
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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by Big Mac » Tue May 17, 2016 10:03 pm

Tim Baker wrote:I found that having the PCs visit a (relatively) safe spot, such as the City of Brass can communicate how alien and deadly the plane is, without actually wiping the party out. Risk of being tossed outside the protective magic barriers is akin to being tossed out the airlock of a spaceship. It makes for a different style of play when the PCs can afford to be forcibly ejected from the city.
The City of Brass is definitely a good starting point. I've seen it namechecked from a number of other D&D campaign settings. It seems to be the Plane of Fire's answer to Sigil, The Rock of Bral or Waterdeep.

But I get this nagging thing about the City of Brass (that I'm not sure others share) that you have this infinite plane, filled with elemental fire (or one plane per crystal sphere, if you have decided to have localised sets of Inner Planes, instead of Inner Planes that fill the entire multiverse)...and everyone who travels to the Plane of Fire seems to go to the City of Brass.

Shouldn't there be a number of other locations that are similar to the City of Brass in the way that they work, but different in "culture" or "population"? I know there are a number of inhabited fire bodies in Spelljammer, for example. Shouldn't each one of these have a gateway community over on the Plane of Fire? Shouldn't there be gateway communities that Fire Elementals can travel to if they want to get to Toril, Oerth, Krynn or other worlds?

Shouldn't there also be some sort of "geography for fire"? Where people that are able to leave the City of Brass can see "different types of fire" that work as differently as the way that swamps and mountains work? Shouldn't there be "cool fire" and "hot fire" or "whispy fire" and "solid fire" that have different properties?

Shouldn't there be people trying to "collect" special types of fire to bring over to other planes (especially the Material Plane) for use in magical items?
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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by ripvanwormer » Wed May 18, 2016 2:56 am

Ring of fire resistance
A low-level party might be gifted, loaned, or find rings of fire resistance. Perhaps a patron loans them the items for the sake of a single mission, or they might be allowed to keep them as payment. They make their wearers immune to normal fires, which should keep them safe except in very hot regions of the plane.

Elemental homunculus
Detailed in the Planescape Monstrous Compendium III, elemental homunculi are living suits which protect their wearers from the extremes of the elemental planes, allowing them to breathe and not die from heat, cold, lightning, or so on. As with rings of fire resistance, a party could be equipped with elemental homunculi for the sake of a single mission or have them for multiple missions.

Ash willow
Described in dragon #347, ash willows transform volatile areas of the Plane of Fire into calm, slow-burning forests covered in ash, presumably easier for humans to survive in.

Lambent flames
Also from Dragon #347, lambent flames are fields of purple fire that protect those within them from all non-magical fire damage. They're hot—around 120 degrees Fahrenheit—but nonfatal to flammable creatures. Unfortunately they're unstable, so they aren't long-term solutions.

Elemental pockets
Detailed in the original 1st edition Manual of the Planes, which noted that the inner planes are never purely a single element. Rather, pockets of other elements are found throughout. An air pocket on the Elemental Plane of Water can allow nonnatives to breathe, an earth pocket on the Elemental Plane of Air can give nonnatives a place to stand and build, and an air, water, or ice pocket on the Plane of Fire can help keep nonnatives from burning. Like lambent flames, these pockets might not be stable.

Some areas are hotter than others
Sir Robilar's City of Brass for Hackmaster told us that the parts of the Plane of Fire that were "nearest" to the Material Plane cosmologically were the least fiery. They're just extremely hot deserts, unpleasant but survivable by humans. This is where the City of Brass is. As you travel deeper, the plane grows hotter and hotter until it's an inferno unsurvivable without magical aid.

5th edition's cosmology has things the same way. The Plane of Fire is survivable without magical aid, as long as you don't go in too deeply.

Endure elements
This is only a first level spell, so it's available to most parties and it lasts all day. It explicitly doesn't protect against fire damage, but it allows characters to survive in temperatures up to 140 degrees Fahrenheit without needing fortitude saves. This is enough to protect them in regions of lambent flames or in cosmologies like the 5th edition one where there are large regions of the Plane of Fire that are more like hot deserts than hellish infernos.

Protection from Energy
This is a 3rd level spell (2nd level for rangers) and it does make characters immune to fire, if they choose. It only lasts 10 minutes per level, though, so it's best for short excursions. A sixth level wizard could use it to be safe in the Plane of Fire for up to an hour, which is okay if they've got a short mission outside the City of Brass or through a portal, though obviously the time limit would make the mission more stressful than it might otherwise be. A party of lower level characters without the ability to cast the spell themselves might have a patron or employer cast the spell on them for the sake of a single mission.

Catarus
A site detailed in Classic Play Book of the Planes from Mongoose, Catarus is a trade town built on the shores of Lake Adamere. Lake Adamere is a water pocket formed around a natural portal to the Plane of Water, and while the edges of it boil most of the lake is a relatively cool 140 degrees Fahrenheit, making it downright pleasant with the aid of an endure elements spell. Catarus is encased in a brass shell (some call it the other city of brass) and uses golem-driven pipes to keep the water from the lake in circulation, cooling the city and preventing its walls from melting. The steam produced is used to power marvelous devices, including a system of portals that can be adjusted to allow access to many other planes.
Shouldn't there be a number of other locations that are similar to the City of Brass in the way that they work, but different in "culture" or "population"? I know there are a number of inhabited fire bodies in Spelljammer, for example. Shouldn't each one of these have a gateway community over on the Plane of Fire? Shouldn't there be gateway communities that Fire Elementals can travel to if they want to get to Toril, Oerth, Krynn or other worlds?
Of course. Canonically the efreet have divided the plane into thurgurs, or military zones, each of which has up to four great fortresses, or albarrana. Other races have other communities, often with mixes of salamanders, azers, elementals, magmen, and so on. I don't know of any canonical gateway communities (Planescape calls these gate-towns) built around portals to Material Plane worlds, but it makes sense that they would exist. The City of Brass is simply the best detailed and most well-known destination. Other communities are not necessarily as survivable for travelers from other worlds, since they are often much, much hotter than the efreet keep their city.
Shouldn't there also be some sort of "geography for fire"? Where people that are able to leave the City of Brass can see "different types of fire" that work as differently as the way that swamps and mountains work? Shouldn't there be "cool fire" and "hot fire" or "whispy fire" and "solid fire" that have different properties?

Shouldn't there be people trying to "collect" special types of fire to bring over to other planes (especially the Material Plane) for use in magical items?
Yes to all of those things. Some regions of the plane are hotter than others. There are seas of liquid fire, mountains and plains of solid fire, and many substances with special properties. The Canonfire wiki details some of them. See also The Inner Planes sourcebook for Planescape, Dragon #347, Dragon #357, Secrets of the Lamp, and Classic Play Book of the Planes.

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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by Zeromaru X » Wed May 18, 2016 8:00 am

I was about to point out the "Elemental Pockets" ripvanwormer mentioned, as the inner planes work in that way in 5e: the closer the are to the Prime, the less elemental they are in nature. The plane of Fire maybe is a sea of flames near the Elemental Chaos, but is habitable enough near the prime world.

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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by willpell » Wed May 18, 2016 2:03 pm

Given that the Elemental Plane of Earth has a few pockets of air within it, it'd be reasonable to create less-fiery zones within the fire plane. My way of handling the need for a solid surface in this plane is to assume that Carbon doesn't count as elemental to Earth, and so the "ground" of the Fire plane is made of compacted charcoal and ashes (likely many of them deposited by previous unfortunate visitors).

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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by Big Mac » Mon May 30, 2016 1:47 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:Ring of fire resistance
A low-level party might be gifted, loaned, or find rings of fire resistance. Perhaps a patron loans them the items for the sake of a single mission, or they might be allowed to keep them as payment. They make their wearers immune to normal fires, which should keep them safe except in very hot regions of the plane.
A loan supply of rings of fire resistance makes a lot of sense. And I guess that, if there was a gate-town around a portal to a gate-town on the edge of the Plane of Fire, there would be a good reason for someone to set up a business hiring them out.

According to the SRD entry for rings of energy resistance, there are minor rings of fire resistance, that stop the first 10 points of damage, major rings of fire resistance, that stop the first 20 points of damage and greater rings of fire resistance that stop the first 30 points of damage. So if the PCs hire more expensive rings, they can start to go into the hotter parts of the Plane of Fire. :)

The prices are listed as 12,000, 28,000 and 44,000 gold pieces, so I would imagine that anyone hiring out rings would want to take a fairly large deposit, to make up for the losses they would suffer, when someone who hired one of their rings failed to come back with it. (And in the D&D world, people get killed adventuring all the time.)

Perhaps it would be possible to make a weaker version (a lesser ring of fire resistance) that only stops the first 5 points of damage and that is cheaper to make. Or perhaps the rings of fire resistance could be specifically created to include a drawback, that only goes away after the PCs give them back to the person who loaned the rings to them. (Making the area around the rings cold could be fun, as that would be useful on the Plane of Fire, but might be annoying on the Material Plane.) A requirement to swear to return the rings might also work, with any attempt to avoid returning them making the ring drop it's fire resistance.
ripvanwormer wrote:Elemental homunculus
Detailed in the Planescape Monstrous Compendium III, elemental homunculi are living suits which protect their wearers from the extremes of the elemental planes, allowing them to breathe and not die from heat, cold, lightning, or so on. As with rings of fire resistance, a party could be equipped with elemental homunculi for the sake of a single mission or have them for multiple missions.
They sound good too. Weird but good. They seem to be cheaper too. And the party could use a mixture of both rings and elemental homunculi.

The SRD also has armor of fire resistance, Improved armor of fire resistance and greater armor of fire resistance
ripvanwormer wrote:Ash willow
Described in dragon #347, ash willows transform volatile areas of the Plane of Fire into calm, slow-burning forests covered in ash, presumably easier for humans to survive in.
I've never seen that before, but it's great. The fact that they create ash and calm the fire makes sense, because they are absorbing fire to grow. And the ash would presumably be the fire equivalent to bark, discarded leaves and soil.

I think that ash willows (and other fire plants) could also grow on the fire bodies in the Spelljammer Campaign Setting.
ripvanwormer wrote:Lambent flames
Also from Dragon #347, lambent flames are fields of purple fire that protect those within them from all non-magical fire damage. They're hot—around 120 degrees Fahrenheit—but nonfatal to flammable creatures. Unfortunately they're unstable, so they aren't long-term solutions.
This is also something I've not seen before, that's great.

If these sort of flames exist, then maybe magic that can control weather can cause these sort of flames to occur in a specific area.
ripvanwormer wrote:Elemental pockets
Detailed in the original 1st edition Manual of the Planes, which noted that the inner planes are never purely a single element. Rather, pockets of other elements are found throughout. An air pocket on the Elemental Plane of Water can allow nonnatives to breathe, an earth pocket on the Elemental Plane of Air can give nonnatives a place to stand and build, and an air, water, or ice pocket on the Plane of Fire can help keep nonnatives from burning. Like lambent flames, these pockets might not be stable.
You are right. Elemental pockets would be great. And, if part of the Plane of Fire was connected to the Material Plane, or another plane that was "friendly to life" then it could be logical to periodically have pockets of other elements dropping through an open portal, so that the area around the portal has quite a few pockets and the pockets become less-common the further the PCs travel from the portal.
ripvanwormer wrote:Some areas are hotter than others
Sir Robilar's City of Brass for Hackmaster told us that the parts of the Plane of Fire that were "nearest" to the Material Plane cosmologically were the least fiery. They're just extremely hot deserts, unpleasant but survivable by humans. This is where the City of Brass is. As you travel deeper, the plane grows hotter and hotter until it's an inferno unsurvivable without magical aid.

5th edition's cosmology has things the same way. The Plane of Fire is survivable without magical aid, as long as you don't go in too deeply.
That's a great way to do things. Spelljammer has rules for fire bodies, being surrounded by a number of circles (or spheres) of increasing amounts of damage. As you try to land a ship on a sun, the number of damage dice increases as you cross into the lower and lower levels. So that kind of made me think that elemental fire would be causing massive amounts of damage, but I guess that fire that does no damage and fire that only does 1 hp of damage are just as logical as fire that does 20 d6 of damage.

I suppose it would be the fatigue, and the inability to obtain cold water to keep cool, that would cause long-term problems for people with protection.
ripvanwormer wrote:Endure elements
This is only a first level spell, so it's available to most parties and it lasts all day. It explicitly doesn't protect against fire damage, but it allows characters to survive in temperatures up to 140 degrees Fahrenheit without needing fortitude saves. This is enough to protect them in regions of lambent flames or in cosmologies like the 5th edition one where there are large regions of the Plane of Fire that are more like hot deserts than hellish infernos.
That sounds entirely logical.

I guess that, this approach would mean that you would need to make some sort of contour map of fire, where the different lines show the amount of fire energy each area creates (and therefore how much protection the PC would need to survive in each area. :D

Like you said, a lot of these things could change. There could be fire clouds that rain droplets of liquid fire, and other random things that change the temperature. Rivers of liquid fire could be fun too, as low-level PCs would not be able to cross hot-rivers, go near hot fields or go close to other places that are espcially hot. This sort of stuff would make a a much more interesting adventure. :cool:
ripvanwormer wrote:Protection from Energy
This is a 3rd level spell (2nd level for rangers) and it does make characters immune to fire, if they choose. It only lasts 10 minutes per level, though, so it's best for short excursions. A sixth level wizard could use it to be safe in the Plane of Fire for up to an hour, which is okay if they've got a short mission outside the City of Brass or through a portal, though obviously the time limit would make the mission more stressful than it might otherwise be. A party of lower level characters without the ability to cast the spell themselves might have a patron or employer cast the spell on them for the sake of a single mission.
I suppose that characters could also take potions of protection from fire based on this spell. That would increase the amount of time they could stay in the Plane of Fire, but give them a logistical thing to worry about, while they were travelling.
ripvanwormer wrote:Catarus
A site detailed in Classic Play Book of the Planes from Mongoose, Catarus is a trade town built on the shores of Lake Adamere. Lake Adamere is a water pocket formed around a natural portal to the Plane of Water, and while the edges of it boil most of the lake is a relatively cool 140 degrees Fahrenheit, making it downright pleasant with the aid of an endure elements spell. Catarus is encased in a brass shell (some call it the other city of brass) and uses golem-driven pipes to keep the water from the lake in circulation, cooling the city and preventing its walls from melting. The steam produced is used to power marvelous devices, including a system of portals that can be adjusted to allow access to many other planes.
That's the second time you have suggested that book to me. Maybe I should buy it. I've started up a separate: Classic Play: Book of the Planes cosmology vs Planescape topic, to get more information, about Classic Play: Book of the Planes without derailing my own topic.
ripvanwormer wrote:
Shouldn't there be a number of other locations that are similar to the City of Brass in the way that they work, but different in "culture" or "population"? I know there are a number of inhabited fire bodies in Spelljammer, for example. Shouldn't each one of these have a gateway community over on the Plane of Fire? Shouldn't there be gateway communities that Fire Elementals can travel to if they want to get to Toril, Oerth, Krynn or other worlds?
Of course. Canonically the efreet have divided the plane into thurgurs, or military zones, each of which has up to four great fortresses, or albarrana. Other races have other communities, often with mixes of salamanders, azers, elementals, magmen, and so on. I don't know of any canonical gateway communities (Planescape calls these gate-towns) built around portals to Material Plane worlds, but it makes sense that they would exist. The City of Brass is simply the best detailed and most well-known destination. Other communities are not necessarily as survivable for travelers from other worlds, since they are often much, much hotter than the efreet keep their city.
Thanks for the correction on gate-towns.

Hmm. Seems like I need to learn more about thurgurs and albarrana, as Material Plane fireworlds that have portals to the Plane of Fire should really (if you are doing it properly, and not recycling stuff) link over to specific thurgurs, or perhaps unclaimed areas close to two or more thurgurs.

For example, I think that designing a gate-town for Sirrion, with a related thurgur on the far-end of it's portal, could make that world seem a bit more "real".

I do agree with you on the relative survivability of different gate-town connections to the Plane of Fire. I think that if this was done "properly" then people trying to get onto the Plane of Fire, could learn about gate-towns that area easy to get to, gate-towns that lead to friendly areas, gate-towns that lead to safer areas, and so on. There could also be different communities, within the Plane of Fire that are more or less interested in other planes.

That makes a lot more variables that makes the Plane of Fire not just hotter or colder, but also less or more dangerous from a random encounter point of view.
ripvanwormer wrote:
Shouldn't there also be some sort of "geography for fire"? Where people that are able to leave the City of Brass can see "different types of fire" that work as differently as the way that swamps and mountains work? Shouldn't there be "cool fire" and "hot fire" or "whispy fire" and "solid fire" that have different properties?

Shouldn't there be people trying to "collect" special types of fire to bring over to other planes (especially the Material Plane) for use in magical items?
Yes to all of those things. Some regions of the plane are hotter than others. There are seas of liquid fire, mountains and plains of solid fire, and many substances with special properties. The Canonfire wiki details some of them. See also The Inner Planes sourcebook for Planescape, Dragon #347, Dragon #357, Secrets of the Lamp, and Classic Play Book of the Planes.
Another good Great Library of Greyhawk article.

Thanks for all these ideas. This plane is feeling less "useless" and more "workable" as I think about it. :mrgreen:
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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by ripvanwormer » Tue May 31, 2016 1:31 am

Another thing I forgot is the possibility that a portal could transform the PCs into creatures that could survive on the elemental planes. This was how elemental vortexes (or "wormholes") worked in the D&D Companion Set.
Frank Mentzer, Dungeon Master's Companion p. 19 wrote:Creatures and things in a wormhole are magically changed into the "proper" element when they reach the Elemental Plane, unless protected by powerful magic.
So in that case it's not that you need powerful magic to survive, but that you need powerful magic to remain in your original form. Any campaign could have magic portals enspelled to transform those who travel through them. It's a sensible kind of magic to add, since a portal isn't much use if those who travel through them die as soon as they reach the other plane. Even natural portals could have had transformation magic added to them by ancient spellcasters.

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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by willpell » Tue May 31, 2016 8:47 pm

The fifth edition description went a long way to making the Plane of Fire more usable, by making the whole thing not be on fire anymore. Instead, it's basically a desert, with volcanic cinders blowing on the winds, but not a constant inferno.

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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by ripvanwormer » Tue May 31, 2016 9:24 pm

willpell wrote:The fifth edition description went a long way to making the Plane of Fire more usable, by making the whole thing not be on fire anymore. Instead, it's basically a desert, with volcanic cinders blowing on the winds, but not a constant inferno.
ripvanwormer wrote:Some areas are hotter than others
Sir Robilar's City of Brass for Hackmaster told us that the parts of the Plane of Fire that were "nearest" to the Material Plane cosmologically were the least fiery. They're just extremely hot deserts, unpleasant but survivable by humans. This is where the City of Brass is. As you travel deeper, the plane grows hotter and hotter until it's an inferno unsurvivable without magical aid.

5th edition's cosmology has things the same way. The Plane of Fire is survivable without magical aid, as long as you don't go in too deeply.
Zeromaru X wrote:I was about to point out the "Elemental Pockets" ripvanwormer mentioned, as the inner planes work in that way in 5e: the closer the are to the Prime, the less elemental they are in nature. The plane of Fire maybe is a sea of flames near the Elemental Chaos, but is habitable enough near the prime world.
I kind of hate that idea, to be honest. If the only way you can manage the plane is to make it more mundane, that's a failure of imagination. There are plenty of deserts on the Material Plane; there is no shortage of places to have desert adventures. It's better to make the Plane of Fire something unique and interesting, to make it an experience you can't get anywhere else. Not every plane needs to be a place where low-level characters can wander around without magical protection.

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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by Big Mac » Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:32 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:Another thing I forgot is the possibility that a portal could transform the PCs into creatures that could survive on the elemental planes. This was how elemental vortexes (or "wormholes") worked in the D&D Companion Set.
Frank Mentzer, Dungeon Master's Companion p. 19 wrote:Creatures and things in a wormhole are magically changed into the "proper" element when they reach the Elemental Plane, unless protected by powerful magic.
So in that case it's not that you need powerful magic to survive, but that you need powerful magic to remain in your original form. Any campaign could have magic portals enspelled to transform those who travel through them. It's a sensible kind of magic to add, since a portal isn't much use if those who travel through them die as soon as they reach the other plane. Even natural portals could have had transformation magic added to them by ancient spellcasters.
That's an interesting concept. It does make me wonder why elementals going the other way wouldn't be transformed too. ;)

But that does match up with the way that some of the Outer Planes transform people after they have been there for a while.

I guess that turning 1st level PCs into a bunch of 1st level fire elementals would allow them to move around. But they would get stuck there, if they didn't have special magic to come back.
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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by Big Mac » Mon Jul 04, 2016 9:28 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:I kind of hate that idea, to be honest. If the only way you can manage the plane is to make it more mundane, that's a failure of imagination. There are plenty of deserts on the Material Plane; there is no shortage of places to have desert adventures. It's better to make the Plane of Fire something unique and interesting, to make it an experience you can't get anywhere else. Not every plane needs to be a place where low-level characters can wander around without magical protection.
If I recall correctly, there is a sun in the spelljammer campaign setting, that has habitable terrain inside it (kind of like a dyson sphere that's a sun on the outside).

I've heard snow described as being a desert before.

It is possible to "reboot" the concept of a desert and have people walking across what is essentially is a layer of "pack ice" floating on the Plane of Fire's environmental equivalent of the "north pole".

You could have rivers of fire, instead of water. They would be radically different from a river in a desert, as they could be hot enough to burn people to death. So finding a river wouldn't make things better for you. It wouldn't allow you to top up your water. and you couldn't get across a river without a bridge.

You could have lakes of fire, instead of water. Again they could be hot enough to burn people to death. They could also be home to some sort of fire-versions of aquatic monsters. A "fire crocodile" that tries to drag land-based elementals into lakes of fire, could be very dangerous to visitors from the Material Plane.

You could have "swamps", with lots of boggy bits of fire, that burn people who step in them. You could even have "sinking sand" that is a mix of solid and liquid fire that burns and sucks in people who fall into it.

And you could have some areas that have a very thin crust that just about holds the weight of PCs.

But - apart from that sort of stuff - an area could be a lot like a hot desert.
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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by Havard » Sat Jul 16, 2016 10:44 pm

Partly inspired by this thread, I have been working to flesh out Mystara's Plane of Fire here. Maybe some of those ideas can be used with other settings as well?

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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by Big Mac » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:26 am

Havard wrote:Partly inspired by this thread, I have been working to flesh out Mystara's Plane of Fire here. Maybe some of those ideas can be used with other settings as well?
That's a great map.

I wonder how the differences between the Great Wheel and the BECMI Cosmology would influence a map of an area of the Plane of Fire in the Planescape universe.
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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by Robin » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:08 pm

Havard.
I am busy doing some work on the Pyromancer Stronghold of Glantri, using your awesome ;) map as a source.
I have the following concept as base; it is a sort of Fortress around a powerful concentrated flame geyser to extrahere magic from it for variant uses.Of course coveted by many in that Plane for various reasons.

My question lies therefor within the overall political structure; To whom would the Glantrian Pyromancers be aligned?. I do not think to Elementals as these are more used as cheap tools to be summoned. So these I feel would be more enemies. As Flaems they themselves may already have visited the Plane of Fire long before most of them were captured and enslaved by the Overlord, as such several of them might have kept hidden in the Plane of Fire, and made alliances of some sort.
The plane of Fire as you depicted here http://pandius.com/fire_pln.html has many more nearby sentient races they could cooperate or battle mutually against. I am interested into your (or any other of you readers) ideas on this?

Who cooperates with whom (and why), and who battles oneanother (and why)? Which race would walk themiddle way (by trade or trickery)?
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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by willpell » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:29 pm

One thing that has always bothered me is that not all four planes have an equivalent to the City of Brass. Depending on edition, you might have a City of Gems on Earth, maybe a City of Pearls on Water, but I'm pretty sure I've never heard of a City of Clouds on Air.

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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by Havard » Sun Jul 22, 2018 10:43 pm

Robin wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:08 pm
Havard.
I am busy doing some work on the Pyromancer Stronghold of Glantri, using your awesome ;) map as a source.
I have the following concept as base; it is a sort of Fortress around a powerful concentrated flame geyser to extrahere magic from it for variant uses.Of course coveted by many in that Plane for various reasons.

My question lies therefor within the overall political structure; To whom would the Glantrian Pyromancers be aligned?. I do not think to Elementals as these are more used as cheap tools to be summoned. So these I feel would be more enemies. As Flaems they themselves may already have visited the Plane of Fire long before most of them were captured and enslaved by the Overlord, as such several of them might have kept hidden in the Plane of Fire, and made alliances of some sort.
The plane of Fire as you depicted here http://pandius.com/fire_pln.html has many more nearby sentient races they could cooperate or battle mutually against. I am interested into your (or any other of you readers) ideas on this?

Who cooperates with whom (and why), and who battles oneanother (and why)? Which race would walk themiddle way (by trade or trickery)?
Thanks Robin! :)

I responded to these ideas in this thread here.

-Havard

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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by ripvanwormer » Mon Jul 23, 2018 1:29 am

Big Mac wrote:
Mon Jul 04, 2016 8:32 pm
That's an interesting concept. It does make me wonder why elementals going the other way wouldn't be transformed too.
Maybe they do.
I guess that turning 1st level PCs into a bunch of 1st level fire elementals would allow them to move around. But they would get stuck there, if they didn't have special magic to come back.
They could get back using the portal they used to get there (the portal transforming them back into flesh on the route home) or, if that portal was one-way, they could travel to another portal that takes them back home (possibly by an indirect route, traveling through other planes along the way). Or they could stay in the planes, if that's the focus of the campaign. Planescape campaigns often start that way, with the player characters beginning the campaign by venturing through an unknown portal and ending up, after some adventures, in Sigil and deciding to stay.
willpell wrote:
Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:29 pm
One thing that has always bothered me is that not all four planes have an equivalent to the City of Brass.
It'd be boring if they were all precisely equivalent, but every race of genies has a capital on its respective elemental plane. There are also a number of other significant named elemental settlements in canon.

Elemental Plane of Air
The Citadel of Ice and Steel (djinni capital). Also known as the Court of Ice and Steel. (The Inner Planes, page 27; Secrets of the Lamp: Genie Lore, page 18).
Borealis, a palace of solid light near the border of the Plane of Radiance (The Inner Planes, page 26).
Blurophil (Tales from the Infinite Staircase, page 72). A floating city founded by the Riven, a group of refugees from the world of Ortho.
Taifun, the Palace of Tempests (The Inner Planes, page 27).
Aaqa, home of the Wind Dukes (in the 5e DMG; in previous editions, Aaqa was located on the Material Plane. It's also part of the Mahasarpa setting.).

Elemental Plane of Earth
The Aviary, a massive air pocket inhabited by the avariel (The Inner Planes, page 38).
The Great Dismal Delve (dao capital). (The Inner Planes, page 38; Secrets of the Lamp: Genie Lore, page 12).

Elemental Plane of Fire
The City of Brass (efreeti capital). (The Inner Planes, page 47; Secrets of the Lamp: Genie Lore, page 23; The Planar Handbook, page 138).
The Crucible (azer tower). (The Inner Planes, page 49).

Elemental Plane of Water
The Citadel of Ten Thousand Pearls (marid capital). (The Inner Planes, page 58; Secrets of the Lamp: Genie Lore, page 30).
The City of Glass (The Inner Planes, page 59; Vortex of Madness, page 65). A mixed-race city half-filled with air, built in a bubble of glass.

Negative Energy Plane
Deathheart (The Inner Planes, page 67).
Fortress of the Soul (The Inner Planes, page 67).

Paraelemental Plane of Ice
Tiera Minuut (The Inner Planes, page 73).

Paraelemental Plane of Magma
Nevermore (The Inner Planes, page 78).

Paraelemental Plane of Ooze
Gnome's Home (The Inner Planes, page 85).
The Trash Heap (The Inner Planes, page 85).

Paraelemental Plane of Smoke
The Hidden City (The Inner Planes, page 90).

Quasielemental Plane of Radiance
The Kingdom of the Blind (The Inner Planes, page 102).
The Refuge of Color (The Inner Planes, page 102).

Quasielemental Plane of Steam
Adrift (The Inner Planes, page 106).

Quasielemental Plane of Ash
Cavitius (Vecna Lives!, page 62; The Inner Planes, page 112).
The Crumbling Citadel (The Inner Planes, page 113; The Factol's Manifesto, page 43).

Quasielemental Plane of Dust
Citadel Alluvius (The Inner Planes, page 117; The Factol's Manifesto, page 43).

Quasielemental Plane of Salt
Citadel Sealt (The Inner Planes, page 121; The Factol's Manifesto, page 43).

Quasielemental Plane of Vacuum
Citadel Exhalus (The Inner Planes, page 124; The Factol's Manifesto, page 43).

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Re: The Plane of Fire - How do you use it?

Post by Digitalelf » Sat Jul 28, 2018 8:11 pm

I know it's not "Planescape Canon", But don't forget about:

(Demi)Plane of Shadow

Balefire, City of Lanterns (Dragon Magazine #322, pages 14-20)

Even though the Plane of Shadow is a demi-plane within the Ethereal Plane in both 1st and 2nd edition, I still utilize this city within my campaigns.

But to answer the OP, I use a lot of the elements that previous posters have talked about; though I have to admit, that most of the excursions my players have made into the Elemental Plane of Fire have centered around The City of Brass as it was presented in Secrets of the Lamp. Though should my current players venture into that infamous city, I will probably add elements from some of the other City of Brass products that have been published (e.g. Necromancer Game's Boxed set).
-That One Digitalelf Fellow-

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