Traversing Elysium

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Traversing Elysium

Postby zontoxira » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:13 pm

I've read that only Good creatures are able to travel throughout Elysium, whereas Evil creatures are stuck in the same place, no matter what they do. What if they belong to a group of mostly Good adventurers, so they just follow them?
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Re: Traversing Elysium

Postby ripvanwormer » Fri Jul 07, 2017 12:16 am

An evil character in a mostly good party (Raistlin and Kitiara with Tanis Half-Elf, Flint Fireforge, Tasslehoff Burrfoot, Sturm Brightblade, and Caramon Majere) would probably benefit from their presence, and you'd just take the average of the group's alignment. The trip wouldn't be as easy as it would be with just the good members, but it wouldn't be as difficult as it would be for an all-evil group.

A group of evil characters trying to follow a good party would be thwarted at every turn as the path closes behind them or unexpectedly changes direction, the terrain gets rougher, briars and swamps and chasms manifest, and so on. There's no reason to be subtle about this: the road is wide and smooth as the good party walks on it, and boulders start falling on it the moment they pass. The land doesn't want evil characters traveling across it.
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Re: Traversing Elysium

Postby Big Mac » Fri Jul 07, 2017 8:18 am

ripvanwormer wrote:An evil character in a mostly good party (Raistlin and Kitiara with Tanis Half-Elf, Flint Fireforge, Tasslehoff Burrfoot, Sturm Brightblade, and Caramon Majere) would probably benefit from their presence, and you'd just take the average of the group's alignment. The trip wouldn't be as easy as it would be with just the good members, but it wouldn't be as difficult as it would be for an all-evil group.


Is there any sort of table to show how this is calculated, or does a GM need to make their own ruling for this, based on how many evil characters and good characters they have?

Do you think that Neutral characters would have any sort of effect (diluting the effect of the evil character or characters) or would a GM be doing something like subtracting the number of Evil characters from the number of good characters to work out the "average" alignment)?

Would you go by the number of good and evil characters? Or do you think that character levels would come into play (with a 20th level good character being able to "counteract" the effects of several 1st level evil characters)?

ripvanwormer wrote:A group of evil characters trying to follow a good party would be thwarted at every turn as the path closes behind them or unexpectedly changes direction, the terrain gets rougher, briars and swamps and chasms manifest, and so on. There's no reason to be subtle about this: the road is wide and smooth as the good party walks on it, and boulders start falling on it the moment they pass. The land doesn't want evil characters traveling across it.


It sounds like you are referring to evil characters that were not working with good characters here.

How far do you think the effect around evil characters...or good characters would stretch? You talk about things closing in the moment a good character has passed, but if an evil character was right behind a good character, they might be able to remain hot on their heels.

I also wonder if it would be possible for an evil character to enslave some good characters (enough to neutralise the effect of their own evil), chain them all up and command them to walk in front of them.

I'm presuming that, with the various factions being around for a while, someone would have tried a few things to "cheat" the rules. I'm also guessing that good characters within Elysium might try to confront any group that tries to sneak evil characters onto the plane. Would the powers on the plane be able to detect evil visitors and send people to deal with them?
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Re: Traversing Elysium

Postby zontoxira » Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:34 pm

From what I've read so far:
"[F]olks of evil alignment or intent [are prevented] from getting anywhere on Elysium. They can walk, run, fly, or whatever they want, but they never really get anywhere." The Planewalker's Handbook, pg 21.
"The followers of the evil powers and such [...] while an occasional lower-planar beast does try it, it wanders about, getting nowhere fast." Planes of Conflict Boxed Set: Liber Benevolentiae" pg 48.
"Unless a body's doing good deeds along his path, he's got little chance of getting where he's going. [...] a sod who ignores the chances to do good along the way simply can't reach his destination. Malevolent creatures can only wander the infinite distances between sites [...]." Planes of Conflict Boxed Set: A Player's Guide to Conflict, pg 20.

What I understand is, people with no evil intentions and doing good deeds along their way, can get anywhere they want. Inherently evil creatures like fiends, however, are not able to travel to specific places; they can wander about, but they will never get to a certain site they want to. An evil character who enjoys the company of a mostly-good party could probably "cheat" the plane and go on their way, provided they don't plan on harming anyone or anything. As ripvanwormer stated above, the trip might not be as easy as it would be without the evil character in the group. On the other hand, if this evil character plans on causing harm, even then good-aligned party traveling with them might not be able to reach their destination.

So, no matter what alignment you are, if you have no evil intents or if you do good deeds, you can get to your destination. And no, there's no such table, Big Mac. It's surely up to the DM to decide how that happens.
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