An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

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Gravesguardian
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An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Gravesguardian » Tue Apr 10, 2018 7:25 pm

AC4 Book of Marvelous Magic page 21:

Buckle of Armor: When worn, this item protects the wearer as if a full set of plate mail armor were being used (AC 3). It is useless when worn with any sort of normal or magical armor but can be combined with a shield and/or a magical protective device that has pluses, such as a ring of protection. The buckle of armor can be enchanted further, though at great cost and time required, to a maximum of +3 (armor class 0).

This magical item would be a boon to anyone who finds it; but, could a Magic-User use one of these as the basis for crafting say a Robe of Armor or even a Vest of Armor?

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Havard » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:25 pm

I would probably allow magic users to use this item. I think I would also allow a Robe or Vest of Armor with a similar effect.

Bracers of Defence (AC2) has a similar effect, and although this item is not detailed in any BECMI, Gaz1 lists Bargle as in posession of this item. The item does appear in AD&D so I assume the author would have assumed the same effects for the item in BECMI.

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Gravesguardian » Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:58 pm

Havard wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:25 pm
I would probably allow magic users to use this item. I think I would also allow a Robe or Vest of Armor with a similar effect.

Bracers of Defence (AC2) has a similar effect, and although this item is not detailed in any BECMI, Gaz1 lists Bargle as in posession of this item. The item does appear in AD&D so I assume the author would have assumed the same effects for the item in BECMI.

-Havard
X10 Red Arrow/Black Shield also listed Bracers of Defense AC: 2 on Bargle as well as on Thieves & Magic-Users in service to the Master. It's possible to pick up 1 from Bargle, 3 from set encounter w/ thieves, 1 from a MU + 1 per PC and major henchman when more thieves attack. It always surprised me that in BECMI no MU was ever smart enough to create such items BEFORE they were ported over from 1st/2nd Edition.

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Havard » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:46 pm

Gravesguardian wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:58 pm
X10 Red Arrow/Black Shield also listed Bracers of Defense AC: 2 on Bargle as well as on Thieves & Magic-Users in service to the Master. It's possible to pick up 1 from Bargle, 3 from set encounter w/ thieves, 1 from a MU + 1 per PC and major henchman when more thieves attack. It always surprised me that in BECMI no MU was ever smart enough to create such items BEFORE they were ported over from 1st/2nd Edition.

ahh, cool!

X10 came out two years before the Gazetteers, so I guess that is where Gaz1 got that from.

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Gravesguardian » Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:53 pm

and here I thought it was the other way around. goes to show I need to pay more attention to printing dates on material.

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by RobJN » Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:25 am

Havard wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:25 pm
although this item is not detailed in any BECMI, Gaz1 lists Bargle as in posession of this item. The item does appear in AD&D
Where did you think Bargle stole it from? :lol:
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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Gravesguardian » Wed Apr 11, 2018 4:34 am

RobJN wrote:
Wed Apr 11, 2018 3:25 am
Havard wrote:
Tue Apr 10, 2018 8:25 pm
although this item is not detailed in any BECMI, Gaz1 lists Bargle as in posession of this item. The item does appear in AD&D
Where did you think Bargle stole it from? :lol:
I always read it as something Bargle would've researched and created himself, then others somehow got a hold of his research and made more. After all, w/ all the PC's gunning for him over Aleena, he had to get better protection, right?

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Gravesguardian » Sat Apr 21, 2018 2:37 am

Need to make a new modification to all of our memories:
M5 Talons of Night pg. 4 lists a Lawful 10th Level Cleric w/ Robe of Protection AC 2. Among the Pre-rolled Characters is a Neutral 27th Level Magic-User w/ Vest of Protection AC 2.
M4 Five Coins for a Kingdom pg. 21 Pre-rolled Characters has a 30th Level Magic-User w/ Amulet of Protection AC 4. On pg. 40 a 36th Level Magic-User w/ Bracers of Protection AC 1.
M3 Twilight Calling pg. 8 has a Shaman's Mantle (magic-users) that grants a base AC of 4.
M2 Vengeance of Alpaks pg. 32 Pre-rolled Characters has a Lawful 29th Level Magic-User w/ a Buckle of Protection AC 3.
Seems there are alot of various Protection methods in offical modules to benefit magic-users. I found the Amulet of Protection AC 4 to be most interesting, since Amulets usually provide a + rather than a set AC.

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Khedrac » Sat Apr 21, 2018 9:42 am

Take a look thorugh AC4: The Book of Marvellous Magic - it has a lot of items that give AC protection - earrings etc. - and there are not rules to say that they don't stack (welcome back to old school). Find enough of them and everyone's AC improves greatly.

Something else to consider for high level play - the staff is probably the best weapon in the game for Weapon Mastery deflect uses per round - 4. Who needs AC when you can deflect all the melee attacks?
"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might just be a crow".

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Gravesguardian » Sat Apr 21, 2018 4:27 pm

Yes; but, first the MU has to live long enough to be high level. That's why I focused on their lack of AC.

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Gravesguardian » Fri May 11, 2018 4:49 pm

Current listing of all canon magical items that give set AC's, w/ sources, that even Magic-Users can use:

Amulet of Protection (AC 4): M4 Five Coins for a Kingdom
Bracers of Defense (AC 2 - 1): Gazetteer 1 The Grand Duchy of Karameikos, X10 Red Arrow/Black Shield
Buckle of Armor (AC 3 - 0): AC4 Book of Marvelous Magic
Buckle of Protection (AC 3): M2 Vengeance of Alpaks
Robe of Protection (AC2): M5 Talons of Night
Shaman's Mantle (AC 4 base): M3 Twilight Calling
Vest of Protection (AC 2): M5 Talons of Night

The list is only for those items giving a set AC rather than +'s. Can anyone think of any I missed? If so post it, w/ source, & I'll add it to the list.

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Khedrac » Fri May 11, 2018 9:20 pm

I think you have missed a few from AC4 that say nothing about not working for a Magic User:
Buckle of Armor AC3, can be enchanted up to +3 (=AC0) - yes I know was in the OP.
Cape of Protection: -1 to AC and +1 to saving throws, explicitly stacks with all other protective items.
Earring of Protection +1, can be up to +3
Gauntlets of Dexterity (raise Dex to 18)
Necklace of Protection +1, can be up to +2
Vest of Missile Protection: absorbs the first 10 points of damge from normal missiles per round (I know it is not AC, but it is useful).

Also, it doesn't technically boost AC but a Displacer Cloak causes most ranged attacks to automatically miss and melee attacks against the wearer to be made with a -2 penalty (Expert Set).
"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might just be a crow".

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Gravesguardian » Fri May 11, 2018 9:56 pm

Khedrac wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:20 pm
I think you have missed a few from AC4 that say nothing about not working for a Magic User:
Buckle of Armor AC3, can be enchanted up to +3 (=AC0) - yes I know was in the OP.
Cape of Protection: -1 to AC and +1 to saving throws, explicitly stacks with all other protective items.
Earring of Protection +1, can be up to +3
Gauntlets of Dexterity (raise Dex to 18)
Necklace of Protection +1, can be up to +2
Vest of Missile Protection: absorbs the first 10 points of damge from normal missiles per round (I know it is not AC, but it is useful).

Also, it doesn't technically boost AC but a Displacer Cloak causes most ranged attacks to automatically miss and melee attacks against the wearer to be made with a -2 penalty (Expert Set).
post just before yours listed Buckle of Armor from AC4 as the 3rd one. Also, I stayed away from items that just give +'s to AC & focused only on one's giving a base or set AC.

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Havard » Fri May 11, 2018 11:00 pm

Nice list Graves! :)

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Gravesguardian » Fri May 11, 2018 11:02 pm

Havard wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 11:00 pm
Nice list Graves! :)

-Havard
Thanks, was just trying to condense all the prior posts to help people see what's "canonly" available.

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Khedrac » Sat May 12, 2018 8:16 am

Gravesguardian wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:56 pm
post just before yours listed Buckle of Armor from AC4 as the 3rd one.
Indeed - and it was in the OP - I included it for completeness.
Gravesguardian wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:56 pm
Also, I stayed away from items that just give +'s to AC & focused only on one's giving a base or set AC.
Now that I had missed - and it makes your list much more useful, nice one.
"If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it might just be a crow".

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Re: An answer to the Magic-Users lack of armor

Post by Gravesguardian » Sat May 12, 2018 3:16 pm

Khedrac wrote:
Sat May 12, 2018 8:16 am
Gravesguardian wrote:
Fri May 11, 2018 9:56 pm
Also, I stayed away from items that just give +'s to AC & focused only on one's giving a base or set AC.
Now that I had missed - and it makes your list much more useful, nice one.
Items that give +'s to AC are among the more commonplace magical items in canon modules, so I thought it best to focus on the rarer items that give a base or flat AC.

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