Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

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Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by paleologos » Tue May 10, 2011 7:16 pm

Was flipping through AC9 the other day, and got to wondering if anyone has ever gone through it in order to identify the various origins (ie. sources or previous appearances) of the various monsters in it?

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Havard » Tue May 10, 2011 7:28 pm

paleologos wrote:Was flipping through AC9 the other day, and got to wondering if anyone has ever gone through it in order to identify the various origins (ie. sources or previous appearances) of the various monsters in it?
I don't think anyone has made such a compilation, but it would be an interesting project! A good place to start would be the Master Set Monster List 3 (on p 42 of the Dungeon Master Booklet).

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Hugin » Wed May 11, 2011 3:09 pm

Actually most of the work has already been done for you. Take a look at the Consolidated Creature Conversion Index on the Vaults of Pandius. A few years ago some of us shared databases and we were able to produce this index. Although AC9 isn't listed properly, you can use "DMR2" as an appropriate substitute since it is simply an update Creature Catalog.

From what I've quickly researched;
Creatures in AC9 that didn't make it to DMR2:

Agarat
Death Leech
Ghoul, Vapor
Huptzeen
Leveller (Bodendruker)
Oard
Phygorax
Possession
Reflector
Sacrol
Stalwart

Creatures in DMR2 that weren't in AC9:

Brownie/Redcap
Choker
Coltpixie
Deep Glaurant
Lizard, Rockhome
Lycanthrope: Werejaguar
Vampire: Nosferatu
Wychlamp
* Source

If you have any other specific questions just ask and we'll see if we can't find the answers.

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Hugin » Wed May 11, 2011 3:37 pm

I've been able to locate original/previous appearances for some of the AC9 creatures.

Agarat - X8 Drums on Fire Mountain
Death Leech - CM2 Death's Ride
Ghoul, Vapor - XS2 Thunderdelve Mountain
Huptzeen - ???
Leveller (Bodendruker) - ???
Oard - CM6 Where Chaos Reigns
Phygorax - ???
Possession - ???
Reflecter - ???
Sacrol - X9 Savage Coast
Stalwart - ???

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by paleologos » Thu May 12, 2011 3:17 am

Thanks, this is amazing!

I've started to draft a quick index to the Creature Catalog, which I will post if it seems useful when I finish it.

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by paleologos » Fri May 13, 2011 1:35 am

Okay, here's what I've got so far. I've included the original appearances of each monster in parentheses, following the entry. Please feel free to advise me regarding additional information, and I will be happy to keep the list updated. Enjoy!

note: creatures with no previous appearance yet identified are in bold

Creature (Animal):

Cat, Great: Bekkah, Cheetah (AD&D Monster Manual II), Jaguar (AD&D Monster Manual), Lynx (AD&D Monster Manual), Spotted Lion (AD&D Monster Manual), Wildcat (AD&D Monster Manual II)
Dinosaur: Allosaurus (X1), Ankylosaurus (X1), Brontosaurus (X1), Titanothere (Expert rules, 1981), Tylosaurus (a type of Mososaur, a larger version of the Mososaurus appearing in OD&D supplement II: Blackmoor)
Dog: Normal (X9), War (AD&D Monster Manual)
Eagle: Normal (AD&D Monster Manual II), Great (AD&D Monster Manual)
Eel: Electric (X7), Giant (X7), Weed (OD&D supplement II: Blackmoor)
Elk, Giant (X1)
Fish, Giant (Expert rules, 1981, X6)
Frog, Giant Poisonous (AD&D Monster Manual)
Gargantua (X7, but possibly based upon the Giant Gar from the AD&D Monster Manual, hence the name as a kind of an in-joke)
Hawk (Expert rules, 1981)
Lizard, Giant Foot-Pad (B10)
Magpie: Normal, Giant
Megatherium (X1)
Octopus, Giant (Expert rules, 1981, X7)
Owl, Giant (AD&D Monster Manual)
Oyster, Giant (X1, 1983 only)
Piranha, Cold-Water (B10)
Porcupine, Giant (AD&D Monster Manual)
Raven & Crow: Normal and Large (AD&D Monster Manual II)
Rhinoceros: Normal and Wooly (Expert rules 1981)
Shark, Vamora
Skunk: Normal and Giant (AD&D Monster Manual)
Snake: Rock Rattler, Normal (B10) and Giant
Squid, Giant (Expert rules, 1981, X7)

Creature (Conjuration):


Desert ghost (possibly based on the Stormbiter (Simon Eaton) from White Dwarf #19 (June/July 1980)
Faedorne (O2)
Fundamental (X8)
Gargoyle, Iron
Golem: Rock and Silver
Guardian Warrior & Horse (possibly similar to the Guardian Warrior used in "A Wizard's Fate" by Christopher Perkins in Dungeon #37 (Sept/Oct 1992) although need to compare)
Homunculus (originally described in OD&D supplement I: Greyhawk): Ulzaq, Gretch, and Fylgar
Huptzeen (likely based on the Gem Hylem from TSR UK's Imagine Magazine #19)
Juggernaut (X4, X10)
Kal-Muru (ship bane) X8
Living Statue: Silver, Rock/Ooze, Jade and Steel (B10)
Magen (X2, B12)
Nightmare (AD&D Monster Manual)
Reflecter (possibly based on the Gray Sqaarg (Graham Head) from White Dwarf #21 (Oct/Nov 1980)
Silver Warrior (O2)
Soul Eater (X4, DA4)
Winged Warrior (B8)

Creature (Humanoid):


Bhut (X4)
Cay-Man (B6, X9)
Chameleon Man (B8)
Crone of Chaos (B8)
Cryion
Dark wing (possibly related to the Deep Glaurant appearing subsequently in Gaz8)
Elf, Aquatic (OD&D supplement II: Blackmoor, although subsequently appearing in PC3)
Flitterling (O2)
Garl (CM6, DA3)
Gator man (DA4)
Hephaeston (CM6)
Hutaakan (B10)
Kara-Kara (X8)
Kna (clearly based on the Locathah from OD&D supplement II: Blackmoor, although with souped up stats)
Lupin (X2, X9)
Man, Isolated: Cynidicean (B4), Quariks and Traldar (Warrior, Vocal and Other) B10
Man, Primitive: Native (X1), Wild Man (including Pagans, originally described in X2) and Barbarian (possibly inspired by the backstory for B1?)
Oard (CM6)
Pachydermion
Phanaton (X1)
Rakasta (X1, X2)
Rock Man (B8)
Shargugh (O2)
Shark-Kin (ie. Sahuagin from OD&D supplement II: Blackmoor, although subsequently appearing in PC3)
Sis'thik (desert scourge), probably one of the sources of inspiration for the Sand Folk, subsequently appearing in DA3)
Snapper (X9)
Sollux (sun brother) originally appearing in an article by Tom Moldvay in Dragon #42 (for AD&D), subsequently in X2, DA4
Stalwart
Tortle (X9)
Triton (originally appearing in OD&D supplement I: Greyhawk, subsequently in X7)
Wood Imp (appearing subsequently in PC1)

Creature (Lowlife):

Amber Lotus Flower (X2, X9)
Amoeba, Giant (X2, X9)
Archer Bush (B3)
Fyrsnaca (XS2)
Herex: Larval and Adult (DA3)
Jellyfish, Giant: Marauder and Man-O-War (X7)
Killer Tree (X2, X6) possibly related to the Hangman Tree subsequent to X2 in the AD&D Monster Manual II
Leviathan: Desert (likely based on the Spice Worm (Dave Tant) appearing in White Dwarf #17 (Feb/March 1980) and Marine (with abilities based on the Afanc, from the AD&D Monster Manual II)
Masher (OD&D supplement II: Blackmoor)
Red Worm (XS2, B11)
Scorpion (Expert rules, 1981)
Serpentweed, Giant (X9)
Sirenflower (B6)
Slime Worm (X2)
Spider, Giant: Giant Hunting (M2 Maze of the Riddling Minotaur, X6, B11), Giant Sand (B8), Giant Shroud (B10), Huge Wood Spider
Steam Weevil (B5)
Strangle Vine (originally appearing as the Choke Creeper in the AD&D Monster Manual II) X9
Strangleweed (OD&D supplement II: Blackmoor)
Vampire Rose (B3, X2)
Whipweed (originally appearing in White Dwarf #9 (Oct/Nov 1978) as the Whipper (Bob Scurfield) and later as the Whipweed in the AD&D Fiend Folio)

Creature (Monster):


Aranea (X1, X2)
Ash Crawler (CM5)
Baldandar
Banshee, Lesser (B4)
Bargda (ie. seemingly inspired by the Broo from Runequest/Glorantha)
Beetle, Earthquake (M2)
Beholder, Aquatic (ie. Eye of the Deep from the AD&D Monster Manual)
Brain Collector (X2)
Chevall (B10)
Death Demon (X2)
Decapus (Land (B3) and Marine (X9)
Dragon, Sea (Expert Rules, 1981)
Dragonfly: White, Black, Green, Blue and Red Dragonfly (XL1)
Dragonne (AD&D Monster Manual) XL1, X9
Dusanu (X5)
Fungoid (AC8)
Gakarak (DA3, DA4)
Geonid (X5, DA3)
Ghostly Horde (B8)
Grangeri (X1)
Gyerian (CM5)
The Hivebrood: Broodling, Hivebrood, Hiveleader, Broodmother, and Hivemind (originally appearing in TSR UK's GameMaster Publications #1 (Fiona Lloyd), subsequently appearing in "Of Nests and Nations" by Randy Maxwell in Dungeon #13 (Sept/Oct 1988)
Hook Beast: Hook Horror (White Dwarf #12 (Apr/May 1979), AD&D Fiend Folio) and Hulker (a weaker form of the Umber Hulk from OD&D supplement I: Greyhawk, without ability to confuse) XL1, DA3
Hypnosnake (X3)
Ice Wolf (B10) basically the Hound of Kerenos (Graham Staplehurst) appearing in White Dwarf #18 (Apr/May 1980) even the picture is similar; also represents a slightly weaker, earlier version of the Quarg appearing in DA3)
Kopru (X1)
Kraken (AD&D Monster Manual II)
Lamara (ie. characteristics of the Lamia from the AD&D Monster Manual, with the appearance of the Lamia Noble from the AD&D Fiend Folio)
Lava Lizard (B5, DA4)
Leveller (Bodendruker)
Nagpa (X4)
Pegataur (M2)
Phantom, Lesser (X2)
Phororhacos ("sword beak") (X1)
Piranha Bird (lesser and greater) (B5, X6)
Pocket Dragon (M2 Maze of the Riddling Minotaur), X6
Polymar (B4)
Randara (ie. Rakshasa from SR#5)
Roper (XL1, DA4)
Sabreclaw (CM3)
Scamille (possibly based on the Goom (Nigel Proudfoot) appearing in White Dwarf #17), subsequently appearing as the Phasm in AD&D
Sea Horse (X7)
Sea Serpent (X7)
Surtaki (could this creature be based on the Minotaur Lizard from OD&D supplement II: Blackmoor?)
Tabi (X4, X10)
Thunderhead
Water Weird (B7, B8)
White-Fang (possibly based on the Snow Serpent from Deities & Demigods)
Wychglow (ie. Will o' Wisp from OD&D supplement I: Greyhawk)
Xytar (a slightly weaker, earlier version of the Camarilla appearing in DA3)
Yowler (ie. Yeth Hound, originally appearing in the MMII)

Creature (Undead):

Agarat (X8)
Dark-Hood (Rorphyr)
Death Leech (CM2)
Dragon, Undead (similar to the Dracolich from "The Cult of the Dragon" by Ed Greenwood in Dragon #110 (June 1986) although somewhat less powerful)
Elder Ghoul (mechanically similar to the AD&D ghast)
Grey Philosopher and Malice (subsequently appearing in "In Pursuit of the Slayer" by Carl Sargent in Dungeon #15 (Jan/Feb 1989)
Haunt, Lesser (B7)
Mesmer (ie. morkoth or morlock from OD&D supplement II: Blackmoor)
Phygorax
Possession
Sacrol (M2 Maze of the Riddling Minotaur, X9)
Topi (X8)
Vapour Ghoul (XS2)
Velya (X7)
Wyrd, Normal and Greater (B10)
Last edited by paleologos on Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:04 pm, edited 39 times in total.

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Cthulhudrew » Fri May 13, 2011 2:26 am

Some additional info for you, as I remember it:

Faedorne and Silver Warrior both appeared originally in module O2: Blade of Vengeance
Traldar (Warrior, Vocal, and other) first appeared in module B10: Night's Dark Terror
The Leveller/Bodendruker is from CM6: Where Chaos Reigns

That pretty much covers it. I want to say some of those animals come from various modules, but I don't recall what/if that's true offhand; I'd have to research it.

Several of the other monsters are just reskinned monsters from AD&D (the yowler is a yeth hound; the mesmer is a morkoth; etc.)
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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by paleologos » Fri May 13, 2011 1:53 pm

Thanks! Missed those. I've updated the list (I will clean it up and make it look more presentable, shortly).

I have the same feeling about some of the animals, but couldn't find any previous appearances for a lot of them.

Also, thanks for the tip about the mesmer - the morkoth first showed up in the Blackmoor supplement (like the masher) and so is really an OD&D monster.

The yeth hound first showed up in the MMII, however, so that seems more like a retooled AD&D monster...

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Hugin » Fri May 13, 2011 2:19 pm

Cthulhudrew wrote:Some additional info for you, as I remember it:

...
The Leveller/Bodendruker is from CM6: Where Chaos Reigns
I haven't been able to find the Leveller in CM6 anywhere. There are mastodons; are you perhaps thinking of those instead, or did I just overlook it?

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Havard » Fri May 13, 2011 4:33 pm

paleologos wrote:Okay, here's what I've got so far. I've included the original appearances of each monster in parentheses, following the entry. Please feel free to advise me regarding additional information, and I will be happy to keep the list updated. Enjoy!
Exellent work so far! Maybe we could piece together some of the missing ones too?
Frog, Giant Poisonous (“Killer Frog” from DA2?);
There is a Giant Frog in Supp II at least.
Homunculus: Ulzaq, Gretch, and Fylgar;
Homunculi appear in Supp I: Greyhawk.
Kna;
Could these be reskinned Locathah/Kuo Toa?


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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Cthulhudrew » Sat May 14, 2011 1:47 am

Hugin wrote:I haven't been able to find the Leveller in CM6 anywhere. There are mastodons; are you perhaps thinking of those instead, or did I just overlook it?
No- that's my mistake. I would have sworn it was in there, but I think I was just confusing the picture of the mastodon on the cover with it. I'm near certain I've seen it somewhere other than the Creature Catalog, though... must be imagining things.
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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Cthulhudrew » Sat May 14, 2011 1:49 am

Havard wrote:
Kna;
Could these be reskinned Locathah/Kuo Toa?
I used to wonder the same thing myself, especially since the Shark-kin seem to be very strongly inspired by the Sahuagin (even down to the stats), but IIRC the Kna stats didn't really mesh up with the locathah or kuo-toa. But it's been a while since I checked, and I don't even have ready access to 1E stats of those creatures, so I may be wrong.
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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by paleologos » Sat May 14, 2011 5:29 am

Okay, I've "de-identified" the Leveller/Bodendruker, for now.

The poisonous Giant Frog described in AC9 is a little different from the Giant Frog in supplement II (and also from the Killer Frog in DA2), although I wonder if it's a revised version of the former...

I've included a Greyhawk reference to the Homunculus, although the various subtypes seem to have been introduced in AC9

As already mentioned, the Kna are quite different from the Locathah as described in supplement II. However, they ride Mashers, which are described in supplement II...

edit: wonder if the Surtaki is a revised "Minotaur Lizard"


It's really interesting to note that the authors/writers of AC9 went back to Arneson's Blackmoor supplement for many of the new monsters. There's a real sense of lineage to the D&D (as opposed to AD&D) game, as a result.

edit: just realized the Randara is the Rakshasa from SR#5


I also wonder if the writers somehow knew about the upcoming publications in Dungeon using the Hivebrood and the Grey Philosopher (or if the authors of those modules incorporated the creatures as described in AC9)

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Cthulhudrew » Sat May 14, 2011 8:29 am

paleologos wrote:I also wonder if the writers somehow knew about the upcoming publications in Dungeon using the Hivebrood and the Grey Philosopher (or if the authors of those modules incorporated the creatures as described in AC9)
The publication date of AC9 is 1986, and the publication of Dungeon #13 is 1988, so I'd say it's unlikely that the hivebrood were included pre-emptively for the adventure (and the intro references both Gaz1 and AC9, so it seems that your latter assumption is correct- that the author of the adventure incorporated creatures found in AC9).

I'm not familiar with the adventure with the Grey Philosopher, but offhand I'd say it was probably used like the hivebrood- ie, a cool creature pulled for a later adventure, rather than being pulled from Dungeon for AC9.

Interesting note on the Randara- I'd have never made that connection myself. :)
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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by paleologos » Sun May 15, 2011 12:39 am

Just a quick update to note that I stumbled across many of the animals (including the elusive giant poisonous frog, etc) in the AD&D Monster Manuals (mostly the first one, but a few from the second).

The monsters whose origins remain elusive are:

Cat, Great: Bekkah
Magpie: Normal, Giant
Shark, Vamora
Snake: Rock Rattler, Giant

Gargoyle, Iron
Golem: Rock and Silver
Guardian Warrior & Horse

Cryion
Dark Wing (similar to Deep Glaurant appearing subsequently in Gaz8)
Man, Isolated: Quariks
Pachydermion
Sis'thik (desert scourge)
Stalwart
Wood Imp (appearing subsequently in PC1)

Spider, Giant: Huge Wood Spider

Baldandar
Leveller (Bodendruker), related to ecology of the Purple Worm (ie. eats them)
Thunderhead
Xytar

Dark-Hood (Rorphyr)
Grey Philosopher and Malice
Phygorax
Possession
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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Cthulhudrew » Sun May 15, 2011 12:58 am

The Nightmare is an old school creature dating at least as far back as MMI (at least I'm pretty sure it's in MM1, even though I don't own it. I know it's been around since early AD&D).

The Kraken, of course, is from Greek mythology.

As for the scamille- if you look closely, it seems to be a reskinned version of the Phasm, although I don't know that particular creature's origins (or if it was even in 1E. (It may be that the Phasm is a reskinned Scamille, as my brief google research shows that it didn't appear in D&D lore until 3E.)
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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Havard » Sun May 15, 2011 1:05 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:The Kraken, of course, is from Greek mythology.
I think it is originally from the Norse/Scandinavian legends actually, although I am unsure about where the name came from.

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by ripvanwormer » Sun May 15, 2011 2:34 am

Yeah, the sea monster that Perseus fought in Greek myth was Cetus. The movie Clash of the Titans renamed Cetus "the Kraken," after a legendary Norwegian sea monster, but the original kraken doesn't properly belong to Greek myth.

The kraken first appeared (to my knowledge) in D&D in the 1st edition Monster Manual II (page 79).

The sollux first appeared as the "seraph" in Dragon #42 (1980), in an article called "demons, devils, and spirits" by Tom Moldvay.

The lamara is a renamed "lamia noble" from the 1st edition Fiend Folio (page 59).

I'm pretty sure the phasm was original to 3e.

Nightmares were indeed in the 1st edition Monster Manual (page 74).

The hulker is a reskinned umber hulk (1st edition Monster Manual, 98). The hook horror is from 1st edition Fiend Folio, 51. The dragonne was also in the 1st edition Monster Manual, page 34.

The white-fang is probably based on the snow serpent from 1st edition Deities & Demigods (based on a creature in a Fritz Leiber story).

The ice wolf is probably based on the winter wolf (1st edition Monster Manual, 101). The roper was in the 1e Monster Manual, 83.

The sand leviathan is based on the sandworms from Dune, but a precedent could be found in the purple worm (1e Monster Manual, 80).

A wychglow is a reskinned will-o-wisp (Monster Manual, 101).

Tritons were in the 1e Monster Manual, page 96.

The killer tree is based on the hangman tree (1e Monster Manual II, 74).

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Havard » Sun May 15, 2011 8:30 am

Cthulhudrew wrote:As for the scamille- if you look closely, it seems to be a reskinned version of the Phasm, although I don't know that particular creature's origins (or if it was even in 1E. (It may be that the Phasm is a reskinned Scamille, as my brief google research shows that it didn't appear in D&D lore until 3E.)
Interesting! I note that the Phasm is an abberation and thus linked to the Far Realm. Does that mean we should consider the Scamille a Nightmare creature? :cool:

Oh, by the way, I suspect the Bargda is based on the Broo from RuneQuest/Glorantha.

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by paleologos » Mon May 16, 2011 1:00 am

Thanks for the input - keep it coming!

I totally remember thinking "huh?" when they mentioned the kraken in the original Clash of the Titans. I was only a kid, but had been raised on the Greek myths. Seems like it was transplanted from the MMII into AC9, since no earlier appearances are apparent.

ripvanwormer - thanks for the amazing tip on the Sollux! It always seemed like there was more to those guys in X2 - I had no idea they had appeared a year or two earlier in an article by good ol' Tom in the Dragon!

It's interesting how many renamed oldies from the original supplements are showing up, although I think the Lamara is actually the Lamia from the original Monster Manual rather than the Lamia noble from the Fiend Folio.

Can't believe I missed the Hulker/Umber Hulk connection.

The Hook Horror is really interesting, since it originally appeared in White Dwarf #12 prior to the publication of the Fiend Folio. Since AC9 was compiled by TSR UK folk, I wonder how many of the remaining unidentified monsters are actually renamed from back issues of White Dwarf or the Fiend Folio?

Will have to check out the White Fang/Snow Serpent connection - sounds good.

The Ice Wolf/Winter Wolf connection is reminiscent of the Giant Poisonous Frog. In each case, the Monster Manual describes 3 types of creature (wolf and frog, respectively). Equivalents already existed in D&D for 2/3, so the third were grabbed for AC9 (the Ice Wolf via B10, however).

Your tip on the elusive Wychglow led me to this interesting tidbit from Sage Advice in Dragon #120:
The will o’ wisp was dropped from the Companion rules due to lack of space; an oversight caused it to be retained in the monster heading on page 28 of the Dungeon Masters Companion. See the Creature Catalogue, pages 80-81, “Wychglow, ” for the will o’ wisp’s statistics.
The Will o' Wisp, as well as the Roper and Triton, actually predated the AD&D Monster Manual...all appeared in OD&D supplements (the Roper from an early issue of SR, to be specific).

I think the Leviathan must be based on a published source other than the purple worm, and I wonder if Killer Trees and Hangman Trees are perhaps too different to be considered alternate versions of each other (will have to go back to the descriptions).

Finally, not sure what to make of the Scamille/Phasm idea - will have to check it out.
Last edited by paleologos on Mon May 16, 2011 10:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by ripvanwormer » Mon May 16, 2011 2:35 am

paleologos wrote:It's interesting how many renamed oldies from the original supplements are showing up, although I think the Lamara is actually the Lamia from the original Monster Manual rather than the Lamia noble from the Fiend Folio.
The lamia noble, like the lamara, appears as a human/snake hybrid. The common lamia from the MMI is a human/goat/lion hybrid. Also, the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix says on page 7, "The monster that Mystarans call the lamara would be considered a lamia noble elsewhere."
I wonder how many of the remaining unidentified monsters are actually renamed from back issues of White Dwarf or the Fiend Folio?
Quite a few, I suspect, but I don't have enough White Dwarf issues to check. The creators of the monsters are credited on page 2 of AC9, and I recognize some of those names as TSR UK authors.
See the Creature Catalogue, pages 80-81, “Wychglow, ” for the will o’ wisp’s statistics.
Good catch! There you are, then.

The umber hulk/hulker connection was made explicit in AC10, page 10, and in the Mystara MC, page 7.
I wonder if Killer Trees and Hangman Trees are perhaps too different to be considered alternate versions of each other (will have to go back to the descriptions).
Hm. They both have tentacle-branches and a central maw, but they have differences, too. The killer tree has four tentacle attacks plus its bite, while the hangman tree can only muster three attacks per round. The hangman tree is a little smarter. The killer tree tentacles don't appear as nooses, most obviously. I'd have to call it inconclusive. They could just be different expressions of a similar, fairly obvious idea.

Edit: the connection was made explicit in the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix, page 7. "Killer Tree: This is the Mystaran hangman tree."

The same source also identifies the strangle vine (AC9, 57) as the same monster as the choke creeper (MMII, 25).

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Havard » Mon May 16, 2011 9:45 am

I love this thread!
ripvanwormer wrote:
paleologos wrote:
I wonder how many of the remaining unidentified monsters are actually renamed from back issues of White Dwarf or the Fiend Folio?
Quite a few, I suspect, but I don't have enough White Dwarf issues to check. The creators of the monsters are credited on page 2 of AC9, and I recognize some of those names as TSR UK authors.
I had no idea White Dwarf had so many D&D creatures in the early days. Here is a list of all the critters appearing in White Dwarf. Might be of use? :)

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Hugin » Mon May 16, 2011 2:16 pm

So much great information in this thread. Thanks folks!

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by paleologos » Mon May 16, 2011 2:24 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:The lamia noble, like the lamara, appears as a human/snake hybrid. The common lamia from the MMI is a human/goat/lion hybrid. Also, the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix says on page 7, "The monster that Mystarans call the lamara would be considered a lamia noble elsewhere."
Excellent - I've updated the list (maybe the common lamia is a "lesser lamara"?)

ripvanwormer wrote:
I wonder if Killer Trees and Hangman Trees are perhaps too different to be considered alternate versions of each other (will have to go back to the descriptions).
Hm. They both have tentacle-branches and a central maw, but they have differences, too. The killer tree has four tentacle attacks plus its bite, while the hangman tree can only muster three attacks per round. The hangman tree is a little smarter. The killer tree tentacles don't appear as nooses, most obviously. I'd have to call it inconclusive. They could just be different expressions of a similar, fairly obvious idea.

Edit: the connection was made explicit in the Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix, page 7. "Killer Tree: This is the Mystaran hangman tree."
The Killer Tree actually predates the Hangman Tree, since it originally appeared in Moldvay's X2, but I will include a reference to the Hangman tree as a "subsequent appearance" in AD&D.

ripvanwormer wrote:The same source also identifies the strangle vine (AC9, 57) as the same monster as the choke creeper (MMII, 25).
Another good catch!

Havard wrote:I had no idea White Dwarf had so many D&D creatures in the early days. Here is a list of all the critters appearing in White Dwarf. Might be of use?
Thanks for the link! A few interesting possibilities, right off the bat (Desert Ghost = Dune Stalker? Whipweed = Whipper from WD 9 (Oct/Nov 1978)?

Hmmm - there's even a White Ape in WD 27 (Oct/Nov 1981) and a Driver Ant in WD 28 (Dec 1981/Jan 1982)! Definitely worth a closer look...

I can't wait to sit down with AC9 and the Fiend Folio to track down those last few creatures, but won't have a chance before the weekend. If anyone else wants to take a crack at it before then, be my guest! I'm thinking about the Dark-Hood as a version of the Crypt Thing, for one (something I've suspected previously, but never looked into).

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by ripvanwormer » Mon May 16, 2011 3:20 pm

Havard's White Dwarf link is very useful! I see that White Dwarf #17 includes a "spice worm" and "green worm," which sound as if they might be the predecessors of the sand and sea leviathans, except their creators (Dave Tant and Ghee Bowman) aren't credited in Creature Catalogue. So evidently not.

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