Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Havard » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:00 pm

Mike wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:34 pm
Pachydermions always remind me of Yag-Kosha from the Conan story, the Tower of the Elephant. Also the hindu god Ganesha. GURK is an Android game that features "wild olyphants" as one of the monster races.
Ganesha was what I first thought about too :)
Someone (Gygax?) mentioned a "friendly talking magpie" to give characters a clue and nudge them back onto an adventure track. I don't recall the source but I clearly remember the phrase from years ago and am pretty sure it was in a D&D context.
That's a cool story :)
Vamora could be a combination of a shark (dogfish sharks are about three feet long) and a remora fish. Remora latch onto other fish like vampires and stay attached, draining blood.
That's a good call. I never heard of Remora before, but it does seem similar enough to be the inspiration for the name.

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Mike » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:57 am

Ah found it, it was Gygax. Module B2 page 12: If the party attempts to move off the map, have a sign, a wandering stranger, a friendly talking magpie, or some other “helper” tell them that they are moving in the wrong direction.
If the party could encounter it, they might want to kill it for the XP, so of course you need a monster entry for it. :mrgreen:

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Sturm » Wed Nov 28, 2018 10:20 am

Then I think it's just a pterodactylus with a thunder element added to make it more original :) Only the creator could know more, but the supplement had 22 contributors, hard to say who created the thunderhead.
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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by paleologos » Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:36 pm

Would be great if the original manuscript for AC9 showed up, some time!

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Havard » Mon Dec 31, 2018 6:27 pm

paleologos wrote:
Thu Nov 29, 2018 10:36 pm
White-Fang (possibly based on the Snow Serpent from Deities & Demigods)
Is this creature related to the Remorhaz in other editions?

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by NPCDave » Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:57 am

Havard wrote:
Thu Jun 09, 2011 12:59 pm
Check out the Hivebrood in this thread...

-Havard
Fiona Lloyd is a pen name for Mike Brunton, so it was Mike Brunton who created the Hivebrood. He adopted several pen names for Imagine Magazine because he was extremely creative and was writing a large amount of material, but the editors wanted it to look as if they had a wider cast of contributors.

This caused a bit of a stir among the readership who were writing in to find out more about who she was. Mike carried the pen name over to Gamemaster Publications.

EDIT: For more information, see here https://realmofchaos80s.blogspot.com/20 ... unton.html

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by JoeNotCharles » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:34 am

hyrieus wrote:
Thu Apr 14, 2016 1:56 pm
The Baldander is based on a character in Gene Wolfe's Book of the New Sun
I bring new information!

The Wolfe character is a person named "Baldanders" , who other than the name isn't much like the monster.

Another forum I'm on is doing a read-through of the CC and just reached the Baldandar. Someone else pointed out that Wolfe took the name from a doppelganger-like creature in early Germanic literature: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldanders

It was also featured in Jorge Luis Borges' book, The Book of Imaginary Beings, which was the source of the peryton from the AD&D Monster Manual.

The person's important, because Borges made it up, although he claimed it was from ancient medieval manuscripts like most of the other creatures in the book. So anything using the peryton must have gotten it from Borges. The Book of the New Sun includes both a peryton and a character named "Baldanders" , sowe know what Wolfe was reading...

ISTR that some other D&D staples have differences from their common mythological versions which mirror Borges' versions of them, suggesting they came from the Book of Imaginary Beings even though they're familiar from myth as well, but I forget the details.

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by JoeNotCharles » Wed Mar 13, 2019 3:36 am

(This is the post I got that from: https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads ... t-22457356)

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by BlackBat242 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:30 am

Havard wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:00 pm
Mike wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 3:34 pm
Vamora could be a combination of a shark (dogfish sharks are about three feet long) and a remora fish. Remora latch onto other fish like vampires and stay attached, draining blood.
That's a good call. I never heard of Remora before, but it does seem similar enough to be the inspiration for the name.

-Havard
Actually, ramoras do NOT drain blood from their "host".
http://divemagazine.co.uk/eco/7403-remo ... al-history
The manta sucker may well be a parasite as its stomach contents have contained very few manta parasites and a lot of manta food.

But the other species all seem to be commensals. Yes, they create a bit of drag on their host but they clear away sloughing skin and scales and eat parasites. They also opportunistically feed on food scraps left by their host.

But most of the remoras have a dark secret. The majority of their food items seem to consist of faecal matter produced by the host. It can’t be particularly nutritious but the free-ride lifestyle evinced by remoras probably doesn’t expend many calories a day.
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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by JoeNotCharles » Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:56 am

Ha! I just found out the Earthquake Beetle is NOT first seen in M2. It's from Japanese folklore: "jishin no mushi" , translated "earthquake insect" .

And it was first published for D&D in Oriental Adventures as "Jishin Mushi (Earthquake Beetle)" . That was in 1985, a year before M2.

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Havard » Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:17 pm

JoeNotCharles wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 3:56 am
Ha! I just found out the Earthquake Beetle is NOT first seen in M2. It's from Japanese folklore: "jishin no mushi" , translated "earthquake insect" .

And it was first published for D&D in Oriental Adventures as "Jishin Mushi (Earthquake Beetle)" . That was in 1985, a year before M2.
Great find! Have you done a comparison stat-wise?

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by JoeNotCharles » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:31 pm

Havard wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 2:17 pm

Great find! Have you done a comparison stat-wise?
No, I don't own OA. Somebody replied to me in the other thread saying the stats were quite different, though.

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Cthulhudrew » Sun Mar 17, 2019 2:21 am

The OA Earthquake Beetle and the CC Earthquake Beetle are very different creatures. The OA one is very much just a giant sized (8-10') beetle, as opposed to the weird dragon-beetle hybrid of AC9.
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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by JoeNotCharles » Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:34 am

Found another one: the "bodendrucker" is from Jorge Luis Borges' "Book of Imaginary Beings", which is the source of a couple of other D&D and AD&D staples.

It's described as an "animal rather like a cross between an elephant and a steam roller, lives on the planet Neptune" (not sure if that's a quote or a paraphrase).

https://www.borges.pitt.edu/i/bodendrucker

The word seems to be from the German "bodendruck", meaning "ground pressure" (a technical term: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_pressure, "the pressure exerted on the ground by the tires or tracks of a motorized vehicle".)

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Sturm » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:47 pm

Good find :)
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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by Havard » Tue Apr 02, 2019 2:05 pm

JoeNotCharles wrote:
Tue Apr 02, 2019 4:34 am
Found another one: the "bodendrucker" is from Jorge Luis Borges' "Book of Imaginary Beings", which is the source of a couple of other D&D and AD&D staples.
Very cool! :)

Is this book worth seeking out?

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Re: Origins of Monsters in AC9 the Creature Catalog

Post by JoeNotCharles » Tue Apr 02, 2019 6:15 pm

It's by Jorge Luis Borges, so I can't imagine it isn't.

I believe it's a bestiary that's mostly real folkloric creatures (some of them pretty obscure) but also with at least a few creatures Borges just made up. The Peryton, which was in the original Monster Manual, is one of those, so it's a giveaway that at least one person involved in early D&D read this book.

Some of the actual folklore creatures also have idiosyncrasies in their descriptions which also show up in the Monster Manual, suggesting the Borges book was used as a source for them too. (Probably the MM author didn't realize the Peryton wasn't a real myth.)

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