List of BECMI/RC Classes

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Re: List of BECMI/RC Classes

Postby Havard » Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:43 pm

agathokles wrote:No, as far as I am aware there's no Amazon class or even monster in BECMI. Probably the Amazon went out of fashion sometimes between 1979 and 1983 :D
Note that the Warrior Maidens of Madarua in B4 are sort-of Amazons, but they are (mostly) classed as Fighters, so it is possible that there was a time of class deflaction in the early times of BECMI where people did not make up new classes for everything. This obviously ended at some point when specialist priests and other classes were introduced, but at that time Amazons were probably really out of fashion :-)


The only other reference I can think of is the Matriarchy of Pelatan from the Master Set Map. I think Bruce Heard was the one who suggested there might be Amazons (Culture or class) in that part of Mystara.

I also thought like you that Amazons might be more of a 1970s concept, but Amazons do turn up in AD&D 2nd Edition as a Kit in the Complete Figther's Handbook (and I think other handbooks too?).

If you look at the list of classes in Agathokles' original post though, the vast majority of classes are actually non-human races.

In a system with broad generalized classes such as BECMI, is there really room for an Amazon class though? Not saying there shouldn't be a class like that, but what makes Amazons different from female Fighters?

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Re: List of BECMI/RC Classes

Postby LimeOdyssey » Wed Jul 26, 2017 5:30 am

The main differences I identified for the ur-Amazon are:

much higher AC than they should have when wearing skimpy outfits

must be female

very limited weapon and armour choices

extremely consistent appearance in original artwork

very distinctive and easily described society and culture - comparable to Dwarves and Elves, far superior in clarity to Halfling / Hobbits / HHoobbiittss etc.

clear links to myth and specific pantheons, African example of real Amazons up to 19th century


...

The danger with classes and monsters is, if we take a reductionist view, there should really be far fewer monster entries, with variations all under Cat (such as Manticore, Sphinx, housecat, Lion, Tiger, etc.) Human (about a hundred different slight variations) and the same with classes - no options, no other variations -- just Fighter, Magic-User and Cleric. Thieves are just lousy fighters who use lighter weapons and armour for practical reasons and so on.

I think the style, spirit and flavour of OD&D to Classic justifies including a range of "weird" stuff as classes, and had the halcyon range of gaming books from 1970-1979 persevered, it seems to me the real reason Amazon wouldn't have made it in would be the lack of girl gamers rather than any inherent pointlessness or defect. :)

...

In terms of Amazon 9th level options, it resolves really plainly to three different constantly illustrated name level types: bondage mistress with thigh boots, a whip and usually a barbed or flaming sword; Red Sonja in chainmail bikini with an axe; classical Greek Amazons with plumed helms, aegis shields and spears. It's so plain, this is why I was super surprised that it never evolved and made it in. :)

By the time some kind of all-inclusive barrel scraping exercise was carried out in 2e they had every conceivable and many basically unnecessary options thrown against the wall. Amazon being part of that giant list is a sad end for one of the "big seven" from the 1970s. :(
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