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[Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:58 pm
by Havard
I remember some talk about Earthdawn supposedly being an ancient past of the Shadowrun Setting. This would explain the similarities of the Trolls of both games which are different from Trolls in most other settings (horns and all). Was this connection ever explored more?

-Havard

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 3:43 am
by timemrick
I've been told by gamers that play both systems that the connection was intentional when Earthdawn was developed, but I can't quote you a source. (I've only played Earthdawn, myself.) In Shadowrun, magic is returning to the world, and dragons, trolls, dwarves, etc., are reappearing. Earthdawn is set in the world's long-forgotten ancient past, before the magic went away.

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2013 4:16 am
by Allen Varney
Shadowrun is Earth as it enters its Sixth Cycle; Earthdawn is Earth near the end of the Fourth Cycle, six thousand years earlier. Dunkelzahn the Shadowrun dragon is the same as Mountainshadow the Earthdawn dragon. The Immortal Elves of Shadowrun -- Harlequin and the Tuatha bunch -- are dragonkin, trying to prepare for the return of the Horrors. Unfortunately a lot of human messing around with magic is accelerating the Scourge, as seen by the unusually early return of the Invae (bug spirits). Dunkelzahn sacrificed himself to delay the Scourge's return.

Caroline Spector's novel trilogy Scars, Little Treasures, and Worlds Without End are the only explicit connections within FASA canon. The first two books are Earthdawn, the last Shadowrun.

After the two game lines got spun off to different companies, all of this got retconned out of existence, and there is now no connection between the current lines.

Several old RPG.net forum threads deal with the connections, such as The Six Worlds and putting it all together.

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2013 3:36 pm
by Havard
Thanks for filling me in on this Tim and Allen!

For some reason these connections always made me fascinated with the two otherwise very different settings. It is too bad that with two separate companies controlling the franchises these connections can no longer be explored except by fans.

-Havard

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:00 pm
by Havard
Came across this in the thread provided by Allen:
Ancient History wrote:For the Record:

**|* First World (Dark Age) - ?
**)* Second World (Age of Dragons) - Upcycle
*(** Third World (Prehistory) - Downcycle
**)* Fourth World (Earthdawn - Age of Legend) - Upcycle
*(** Fifth World (Modern History - Downcycle
**)* Sixth World (Shadowrun) - Upcycle

Now, while it's called the Sixth World in Earthdawn, technically speaking we don't know how long the mana cycle has been occurring...recorded history starts during the Age of Dragons, which numerically would be the Second Age. Before that is essentially mythology, such as the Dark Age.

This is the most accepted view, because simply logic would otherwise have the First World as a downcycle, when the Dragons weren't even awake!

For the record, each half of a cycle is approx. 5,000 years, with the Scourge lasting 800 years or so in the middle of the upcycle.

The mana level stabilization is supposed to be the result of the Therans, possibly with the aid of their giant orichalcum pillars and mana batteries know as Loci or mel'thelem (http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Artifax.htm)

Yes a Scourge is due in Shadowrun in about 2,030 years or so. Yes, some are preparing for it.

Invae in ED are Insect Spirits in SR, look ye here (http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Invae.html).

Rumor has it Icewing may have arranged for the Therans to find the Books of Harrow, see the Alamais(e) Conspiracy for details (do a search on the rpg.net forums).

Aside from that, y'all might be interested in a complete list of ED/SR crossovers (http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Shado ... thdawn.htm), and a look at all the great dragons and immortal elves. (http://ancientfiles.dumpshock.com/Imoortals.htm)
Source: http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-185845.html

If each cycle lasts about 5000 years wouldn't that place the beginning of the Earthdawn Era about 10.000 years ago? Actually that sounds rather recent to me...

Still, pretty fascinating! :)

-Havard

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 9:48 pm
by Boneguard
Here is the Archive of the above dead links: http://web.archive.org/web/200602080535 ... shock.com/

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 11:41 pm
by Big Mac
Havard wrote:Came across this in the thread provided by Allen:
Ancient History wrote:For the Record:

**|* First World (Dark Age) - ?
**)* Second World (Age of Dragons) - Upcycle
*(** Third World (Prehistory) - Downcycle
**)* Fourth World (Earthdawn - Age of Legend) - Upcycle
*(** Fifth World (Modern History - Downcycle
**)* Sixth World (Shadowrun) - Upcycle
Source: http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-185845.html
Is there any sort of significance for the "**|*", "**)*" and "*(**" stuff?

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 12:26 am
by Boneguard
"|" probably stable magic
"(" low (eg no) Magic
")" High magic.

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 9:24 am
by Havard
Thanks Boneguard!

I am fascinated by the ongoing speculations of what will happen at the end of Shadowrun's cycle and begyond that. Of course we are probably talking about thousands of years into the future.

-Havard

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Thu May 01, 2014 2:49 pm
by Allen Varney
Havard wrote:I am fascinated by the ongoing speculations of what will happen at the end of Shadowrun's cycle and beyond that. Of course we are probably talking about thousands of years into the future.
No, as I understand it, the magical research by Aztechnology and others was supposed to accelerate the return of magic in Shadowrun. You see foreshadowings in the early arrival of the bug spirits, which are relatively benign in themselves but presage the arrival of Horrors.

I believe each up or down cycle of magic lasts six thousand years.

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 12:46 am
by Big Mac
Boneguard wrote:"|" probably stable magic
"(" low (eg no) Magic
")" High magic.
Thanks. That makes sense.
Allen Varney wrote:
Havard wrote:I am fascinated by the ongoing speculations of what will happen at the end of Shadowrun's cycle and beyond that. Of course we are probably talking about thousands of years into the future.
No, as I understand it, the magical research by Aztechnology and others was supposed to accelerate the return of magic in Shadowrun. You see foreshadowings in the early arrival of the bug spirits, which are relatively benign in themselves but presage the arrival of Horrors.

I believe each up or down cycle of magic lasts six thousand years.
From what I understood, some sort of virus turned a lot of humans into other races (or turned them back into their own race, from another point of view). How does that fit into the six thousand year cycle thing?

Would those Shadowrun races turn back into humans later on? Or would they just be orcs, elves, dwarves and so on, with no ability to learn spellcasting?

Aside from the magic, were the rules of Earthdawn identical to the rules of Shadowrun?

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:12 am
by night_druid
Heh, tie in FASA's other IP, Battletech, for some more fun. That might make the Inner Sphere a bit more interesting...;)

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Fri May 02, 2014 1:15 am
by Boneguard
Big Mac wrote: From what I understood, some sort of virus turned a lot of humans into other races (or turned them back into their own race, from another point of view). How does that fit into the six thousand year cycle thing?

Would those Shadowrun races turn back into humans later on? Or would they just be orcs, elves, dwarves and so on, with no ability to learn spellcasting?

Not A virus (unless you think of the Vampires).

Metahuman phenotype (orks, trolls, elfs and dwarfs) is essentially caused by a gene triggered when magic reach a certain level (as in 2011 IIRC) and go dormant when it reach below a certain level. That why in the 6 000 years of low Magic only human are present...some are normal and some are carrier of that magic-sensitive gene.

Well that was the party line for 1st, 2nd and 3rd edition (as well as Earthdawn)...not sure about 4th and 5th ed as I do not own them.

Aside from the magic, were the rules of Earthdawn identical to the rules of Shadowrun?
Nope 2 different beasts.

Shadowrun is a multiple D6 system, Earthdwan is a multi-dice system with tiers (a bit like Alternity) so d4, d6, d8+d6, 2d20 etc.

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:43 am
by Havard
And now we know that there is also an official connection between Earthdawn and the 1798 RPG. :cool:

Now, we only need Fading Suns to represent this universe's distant future? :o :ugeek:

By the way, was there ever offered a reason why some races only existed in Earthdawn (Obsidimen, Windlings etc), while others were reappearing in the age of Shadowrun?

-Havard

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 7:55 pm
by timemrick
Havard wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 11:43 am
By the way, was there ever offered a reason why some races only existed in Earthdawn (Obsidimen, Windlings etc), while others were reappearing in the age of Shadowrun?
I've never played Shadowrun, and haven't read enough Earthdawn material to know if it's addressed there. But my own guess is that in Shadowrun, the magic only recently started to return, so the world needs more time to produce the races that diverge further from the human form. (Sure, they are things like dragons, but IIRC, some of them predate the widespread return of magic?)

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:38 pm
by FASA_Andrew
Earthdawn takes place after the peak of the magic cycle, thousands of years into the Fourth World. There's been plenty of time for various races to appear.

Shadowrun starts in 2050, with the Awakening in 2012, so very early in the Sixth World. The dragons Awaken from hibernation, and the four basic genotypes Awaken from within Humanity, and Bob's your uncle.

Obsidimen were not intended to appear in Shadowrun due to their Liferocks having been mined out during the Fifth World, when nobody knew they were excavating the heart out of a race. Windlings make a very brief appearance in Shadowrun, with a pair of them being kept as pets by a very wealthy and very nasty individual.

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 9:24 pm
by Havard
FASA_Andrew wrote:
Mon Jul 23, 2018 9:38 pm
Obsidimen were not intended to appear in Shadowrun due to their Liferocks having been mined out during the Fifth World, when nobody knew they were excavating the heart out of a race.
Wow, that is a pretty sinister fate for that awesome race :twisted:

Windlings make a very brief appearance in Shadowrun, with a pair of them being kept as pets by a very wealthy and very nasty individual.
Cool! I didn't know that. Did Shadowrun include many seeds specifically hinting towards Earthdawn?

-Havard

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:55 pm
by FASA_Andrew
Yes. The Ancient Files have already been referenced in this thread. See also http://www.amurgsval.org/shadowrun/earthdawn.html for connections between the two. It was our intention to link Shadowrun and Earthdawn, and do some crossover stuff. Sadly, not much of that happened before we got the offer for Shadowrun. There is a novel series that starts in the Earthdawn world and finishes in the Shadowrun world. That's about it.

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:48 am
by The Dark
I've seen speculation that one Obsidiman exists - Hideo Yoshida was affected by SURGE in 2063 and turned into a half-ton changeling with stone skin (Year of the Comet). If he's not an Obsidiman, he's something with similar size and appearance.

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Thu Jul 26, 2018 11:27 am
by FASA_Andrew
The Dark wrote:
Thu Jul 26, 2018 4:48 am
I've seen speculation that one Obsidiman exists - Hideo Yoshida was affected by SURGE in 2063 and turned into a half-ton changeling with stone skin (Year of the Comet). If he's not an Obsidiman, he's something with similar size and appearance.
You'd have to ask Catalyst about that. Year of the Comet is their product, and I don't have visibility into their design decisions. All I can tell you about are FASA's original pre-Catalyst plans. We had three races (obsidiman, windling, t'skrang) that we created for Earthdawn, which came well after Shadowrun, and we needed some handwavium to explain why they weren't still around. We dropped a few hints and left it as a mystery. Of course, the problem now is to explain where they are in 1879, or at least what became of them, since the Saurids of the Gruv look suspiciously t'skrang-like.

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:19 pm
by Boneguard
FASA_Andrew wrote:
Tue Jul 24, 2018 10:55 pm
Yes. The Ancient Files have already been referenced in this thread. See also http://www.amurgsval.org/shadowrun/earthdawn.html for connections between the two. It was our intention to link Shadowrun and Earthdawn, and do some crossover stuff. Sadly, not much of that happened before we got the offer for Shadowrun. There is a novel series that starts in the Earthdawn world and finishes in the Shadowrun world. That's about it.
Harlequin and Harlequin's back does have a wee bit of crossover elements and were two of my favorite adventures

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:26 pm
by FASA_Andrew
Boneguard wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:19 pm
Harlequin and Harlequin's back does have a wee bit of crossover elements and were two of my favorite adventures
In my Earthdawn campaign, we played through the fall of Sereatha, and the players (some of whom had played the Harlequin module for Shadowrun many years before) got to see Caimbeuel become Har'lea'quinn, as the Last Knight of the Crimson Spire reNamed it the Crying Spire and fought against the invae until he collapsed from injuries and exhaustion. It was one of the more intense sessions we've had. Now they understand why, thousands of years later, he's a bit Dagenham, and positively manic about the invae.

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:49 am
by Boneguard
FASA_Andrew wrote:
Sun Jul 29, 2018 10:26 pm
In my Earthdawn campaign, we played through the fall of Sereatha, and the players (some of whom had played the Harlequin module for Shadowrun many years before) got to see Caimbeuel become Har'lea'quinn, as the Last Knight of the Crimson Spire reNamed it the Crying Spire and [...]
Oooh that must have been pretty epic to go through.

A bit of a sidetrack, but I always wondered if his name in Earthdawn, and it similarity to the Scot Gaelic form of the surname Campbell (Caimbeul) was not intentional...especially in light of the surname's meaning (crooked-mouth or wry-mouth).

Re: [Earthdawn] World of Shadowrun's Past?

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:22 pm
by FASA_Andrew
Boneguard wrote:
Mon Jul 30, 2018 11:49 am
A bit of a sidetrack, but I always wondered if his name in Earthdawn, and it similarity to the Scot Gaelic form of the surname Campbell (Caimbeul) was not intentional...especially in light of the surname's meaning (crooked-mouth or wry-mouth).
As with any game system, there are a lot of Easter Eggs in both Earthdawn and Shadowrun. For example, if you read the Shadowrun Bug City novels, the spot where they used a nuke on an invae nest was right across the street from FASA's old Cermak HQ and could be easily seen from the windows.