Eisenmond

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Phoenixmcl
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Eisenmond

Post by Phoenixmcl » Wed Feb 25, 2009 9:56 pm

Per Request of information

Eisenmond is a bluish glowing iron mined by the dwarves of Thunder Rift. The only current known location of the ore is in an abandoned mine in the mountains by Torlynn. Apparently the metal is able to craft powerful weapons that are capable on being enhanced with enchantments. One of the mentionable weapons is the Jamnar (a dragon slaying 2 handed sword). For more related info pick up a copy of TSR's Dragon Quest or read a summary of the adventure at http://pandius.com/drgn_qst.html.

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Re: Eisenmond

Post by Havard » Fri Feb 27, 2009 12:45 pm

Phoenixmcl wrote:Per Request of information

Eisenmond is a bluish glowing iron mined by the dwarves of Thunder Rift. The only current known location of the ore is in an abandoned mine in the mountains by Torlynn. Apparently the metal is able to craft powerful weapons that are capable on being enhanced with enchantments. One of the mentionable weapons is the Jamnar (a dragon slaying 2 handed sword). For more related info pick up a copy of TSR's Dragon Quest or read a summary of the adventure at http://pandius.com/drgn_qst.html.

Thanks for sharing this and reminding me of the Dragon Quest summaries. I really need to comment more on those!

In your summary you once refer to Eisenmond as "Blue Steel". I like the idea of Eisenmond somehow being a counterpart to Red Steel. I dont really have any good ideas of how magical metals should be modelled in D&D, but I think it could be interesting if Eisenmond is one of those things that set Thunder Rift apart from other regions of Mystara.

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Re: Eisenmond

Post by Belathauzer » Sat Feb 28, 2009 3:38 am

To expand a bit on what Phoenixmcl has already written:

It is mentioned in the Dragon Quest adventures that the dwarves abandoned the Eisenmond mine after discovering a "dark and evil secret". It is later discovered (much to the adventurers and townspeople of Torlynn's dismay) that the secret is the dragon Estorex Rex and his lizard men minions. When the Eisenkern (a large nugget of Eisenmond) was stolen from the mine it apparently weakened the dragon's prison enough to allow it to escape.

During the course of the three adventures, the stolen Eisenkern is forged into the powerful sword Jamnar by the minotaur Dabokia. This weapon bestows an attack bonus of +2 (in classic D&D rules), and +4 against dragons. It can be used by the heroes to destroy the dragon.

It can be determined from all this that the Eisenkern may possess special qualities that affect dragons and lizard kind, quite similar to Superman and kryptonite. It's mere presence (albeit in large quantities) is powerful enough to weaken and imprison a dragon. To add some flavor, Eisenmond is German for "Ironmoon". The mond/moon bit could be a dwarven analogy for the bluish glow of the ore, likening it to "glowing like the moon". It could also be taken literally in that the ore is an ironmoon, or iron that "fell from the sky" (i.e. a meteorite). In the latter case, the Eisenmond would be in limited supply in Thunder Rift, having been deposited there after a meteor impact rather than a naturally occurring vein. In fact, the impact could well have been the very event that brought the Rift into existence in the first place. :o

However it's background is played, Eisenmond should be kept as a rare commodity. It will be coveted by dragonslayers, generals, wizards, and kings and can bring attention to the small valley of Thunder Rift. It would definitely be a lucrative export for anyone capable of securing it in significant quanties.

On a side note: the kern in Eisenkern means core in german. It can also mean heart or center. The Eisenkern is described as being the largest piece that the dwarves had ever found. It is very possible that this was the center of the meteorite and the purest piece of the magical metal from the stars.


Well, that's my take on it anyway. :P
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Re: Eisenmond

Post by Havard » Tue Mar 03, 2009 12:48 pm

Interesting information and ideas Belathauzer!

Meterorite. Kryptonite towards dragons. Lets work on this analogy some more. In the show Smallville they had alot of ideas on how to bring in Kryptonite in different ways to keep the story going. What if Thunder Rift, like Smallville, also saw a rain of meteorites rather than a single rock. The Eisenkern is the biggest one the dwarves have found so far, but there could certainly be more out there. How about linking this meteor shower to the Great Rain of Fire? Maybe Eisenkern is really of Blackmoorian origin?

I need to read up on Kryptonite, but I like how Smallville used it not only to weaken Clark, but also as a way to give powers to others. Maybe Eisenkern can also work like this? And remember the type of Kryptonite which drives Superman crazy? What if something like this found its way to the swamps of Kraal? How about Golems made out of Eisenkern?

And who is the Lex Luthor of Thunder Rift? Zanzer or the Black Knight? Do any of these guys know about this metal? Or Nicholas Maybrush?

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Re: Eisenmond

Post by firebee » Tue Mar 03, 2009 3:26 pm

Belathauzer wrote: It can be determined from all this that the Eisenkern may possess special qualities that affect dragons and lizard kind, quite similar to Superman and kryptonite. It's mere presence (albeit in large quantities) is powerful enough to weaken and imprison a dragon. To add some flavor, Eisenmond is German for "Ironmoon". The mond/moon bit could be a dwarven analogy for the bluish glow of the ore, likening it to "glowing like the moon". It could also be taken literally in that the ore is an ironmoon, or iron that "fell from the sky" (i.e. a meteorite). In the latter case, the Eisenmond would be in limited supply in Thunder Rift, having been deposited there after a meteor impact rather than a naturally occurring vein. In fact, the impact could well have been the very event that brought the Rift into existence in the first place. :o
I like your take on this. Having Eisenmond be a meteor (or perhaps the remnant of some artifact from the days of Blackmoor) would greatly limit the amount available. I would hate to see Eisenmond become the next cinnabar/cinnabryl.
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Re: Eisenmond

Post by Havard » Tue Mar 03, 2009 9:38 pm

firebee wrote:I would hate to see Eisenmond become the next cinnabar/cinnabryl.
Uhm, why? :(

I mean, obviously a complete ripoff of Red Steel wouldnt be much fun, but why limit this to a one scenario thing? I see so much potential here...

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Re: Eisenmond

Post by firebee » Thu Mar 05, 2009 2:50 pm

Havard wrote:
firebee wrote:I would hate to see Eisenmond become the next cinnabar/cinnabryl.
Uhm, why? :(

I mean, obviously a complete ripoff of Red Steel wouldnt be much fun, but why limit this to a one scenario thing? I see so much potential here...

Havard
Just my personal preference. The whole cinnabar/cinnabryl/red steel concept wasn't one I particularly liked (though I did like the new cultures introduced on the savage coast.) It was just too omnipresent for my tastes. I would've preferred it if cinnabar/cinnabryl/red steel was much rarer so that didn't dominate the savage coast nations so much.

While eisenmond doesn't include the strange properties/diabilities associated with cinnabar/cinnabryl/red steel, I wouldn't want to see it become "the" (or even "a") dominant theme for TR, or by extension, Karameikos. After all, what would poor Scortch do if everyone was walking around with magical anti-dragon weapons? :lol:
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Re: Eisenmond

Post by Belathauzer » Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:41 pm

firebee wrote: Just my personal preference. The whole cinnabar/cinnabryl/red steel concept wasn't one I particularly liked (though I did like the new cultures introduced on the savage coast.) It was just too omnipresent for my tastes. I would've preferred it if cinnabar/cinnabryl/red steel was much rarer so that didn't dominate the savage coast nations so much.

While eisenmond doesn't include the strange properties/diabilities associated with cinnabar/cinnabryl/red steel, I wouldn't want to see it become "the" (or even "a") dominant theme for TR, or by extension, Karameikos. After all, what would poor Scortch do if everyone was walking around with magical anti-dragon weapons? :lol:
I kind of have to agree with Firebee here. It's my opinion that a thing is truly powerful when it is rare, or unique. Case in point - enriched uranium or plutonium. Whereas both uranium and plutonium occur in nature, they are extremely rare and are difficult and costly to collect and refine. But once harnessed, oh the terrible power that can be unleashed... This pretty much limits it's use to advanced nations and mega-corporations.

I think that magic and magical materials should be handled in a similar fashion in D&D. If these magical materials were as common to find and easy to collect and use as iron then the importance factor of the raw materials and the resulting magical items is diminished. "What's that you got there? A +2 Eisenmond bastard sword? Yeah, I gave one of those to my son last year for his birthday." Do you see my point? On the other hand if you were to do this - "Behold! I hold the mighty sword Jamnar. Crafted from the Eisenkern by the terrible minotaur Dabokia; whose keen edge has drank the blood of the foul wyrm Estorax Rex, and shall now taste the blood of your dark heart. Scorch, terror of Thunder Rift, prepare to meet your DOOM!" Nicer ring I think, but then I've always liked unique magic items and the idea that magic items have greater importance when there is some history behind them, like Excalibur and such.

In closing, magic items and their prevalence should be handled with great care by the DM, lest he find that his player's and his world have gotten out of his control... ;)
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Re: Eisenmond

Post by Havard » Mon Mar 09, 2009 8:32 pm

Okay, I guess I see where you guys are coming from. I don't know if I was imagining making Eisenmond as common as you fear though, but what I would like to see is having it be more than one adventure thing. So there could be more than one meteorite down there. Also, I am thinking about how to make this not just an asset for the PCs, but a threat as well? Maybe one of the citizens of Edgewater discovers a dagger made of Eisenmond. Next thing you have an invasion from the Marshwood lizardmen demanding the thing be destroyed. Stuff like that :)

Another question: Is the minotaur Dabokia still around? Or is he some creature of legend? I was wondering if we could make use of him in developing the Minotaurs of Thunder Rift.

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Re: Eisenmond

Post by Belathauzer » Wed Mar 25, 2009 10:08 pm

Sorry for the delay in responding. Work has a tendency to suck the life out of you sometimes.
Havard wrote:Okay, I guess I see where you guys are coming from. I don't know if I was imagining making Eisenmond as common as you fear though, but what I would like to see is having it be more than one adventure thing. So there could be more than one meteorite down there. Also, I am thinking about how to make this not just an asset for the PCs, but a threat as well? Maybe one of the citizens of Edgewater discovers a dagger made of Eisenmond. Next thing you have an invasion from the Marshwood lizardmen demanding the thing be destroyed. Stuff like that :)
I can totally agree with this point of view. When you made the comparison to Red Steel my immediate thought was that it would change the entire setting drastically, much like what Red Steel had done to the Savage Coast. I didn't want to see Eisenmond be a one-off either. I picture it as being available, but you have to work really hard to find it. It should be found only in the deepest, darkest, most dangerous mines and dungeons. This would make it a rare commodity indeed.

Considering that the dwarves had originally found it hundreds of years prior, I would imagine that there would also be a few ancient Eisenmond weapons or other items floating about. These could be heirlooms held by the dwarves of Hearth-home, or powerful magic items to be found scattered in the various dungeons of Thunder Rift (Stonefast & the Haunted Tower come immediately to mind). I could even see Colin's thoughts on the Grasslands and old battlefields/barrows being good places to discover an Eisonmond blade or two (I'm picturing a group of halflings stumbling upon a cache of Eisenmond daggers after surviving an encounter with some barrow wights :mrgreen: ). I'm sure that the warlords of old payed hefty sums to the dwarven craftsmen for magical arms & armor.
Havard wrote: Another question: Is the minotaur Dabokia still around? Or is he some creature of legend? I was wondering if we could make use of him in developing the Minotaurs of Thunder Rift.

Havard
Dabokia is indeed alive and well, at least at the beginning of the adventure. ;) IIRC he is the leader of a group of minotaur bandits that steals the Eisenkern from the group of goblins that had absconded with it from the old mine above Torlynn. The adventurers eventually track him to an old, dilapidated keep to the south. I had always assumed that he was affiliated with the Minotaur/Manticore bandits that prey on travelers on the main trail in/out of TR. I also assumed that the keep was the unnamed keep/ruin shown deep to the south of the Horned Hills on the edge of the Southern Great Grasslands. This placement could work quite well as it is just a stone's throw from where you placed the Tomb of Alaxus, the Minotaur Mage. There could easily be connections between the two. At least that's what I have planned for my game... :twisted:
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Re: Eisenmond

Post by Havard » Thu Apr 02, 2009 4:56 pm

Belathauzer wrote:Sorry for the delay in responding. Work has a tendency to suck the life out of you sometimes.
No problem! I've been a little distracted from TR myself lately, but these things tend to come in waves it seems. TR is something I keep coming back to though :)
I can totally agree with this point of view. When you made the comparison to Red Steel my immediate thought was that it would change the entire setting drastically, much like what Red Steel had done to the Savage Coast. I didn't want to see Eisenmond be a one-off either. I picture it as being available, but you have to work really hard to find it. It should be found only in the deepest, darkest, most dangerous mines and dungeons. This would make it a rare commodity indeed.
Sounds like we are on the same page then! Your criticism was useful because it made me think through what it was exactly I had in mind. Mithril in Middle Earth is probably a way better comparison than Red Steel as you say.
Considering that the dwarves had originally found it hundreds of years prior, I would imagine that there would also be a few ancient Eisenmond weapons or other items floating about. These could be heirlooms held by the dwarves of Hearth-home, or powerful magic items to be found scattered in the various dungeons of Thunder Rift (Stonefast & the Haunted Tower come immediately to mind). I could even see Colin's thoughts on the Grasslands and old battlefields/barrows being good places to discover an Eisonmond blade or two (I'm picturing a group of halflings stumbling upon a cache of Eisenmond daggers after surviving an encounter with some barrow wights :mrgreen: ). I'm sure that the warlords of old payed hefty sums to the dwarven craftsmen for magical arms & armor.
Great ideas here. I like combining these ideas with Colin's suggestions for the Grasslands. These rare weapons would have been given to the most powerful warriors during Thunder Rift's great wars and may have been lost on those countless battlefields. Some of the items may have been cursed as a result of what happened in those battles too...

Dabokia is indeed alive and well, at least at the beginning of the adventure. ;) IIRC he is the leader of a group of minotaur bandits that steals the Eisenkern from the group of goblins that had absconded with it from the old mine above Torlynn. The adventurers eventually track him to an old, dilapidated keep to the south. I had always assumed that he was affiliated with the Minotaur/Manticore bandits that prey on travelers on the main trail in/out of TR. I also assumed that the keep was the unnamed keep/ruin shown deep to the south of the Horned Hills on the edge of the Southern Great Grasslands. This placement could work quite well as it is just a stone's throw from where you placed the Tomb of Alaxus, the Minotaur Mage. There could easily be connections between the two. At least that's what I have planned for my game... :twisted:
Are you reading my mind here? :)
I was hoping we could make use of both of these to develop the Horned Hills a little more. I like the idea of these Minotaurs being a bit more than just horned monsters. The fact that they have mages and master craftsmen among them do suggest that at least some of the Minotaurs are far more advanced than the standard brutes often encountered.

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Re: Eisenmond

Post by BlackBat242 » Fri Jun 25, 2010 12:10 am

Belathauzer wrote:I didn't want to see Eisenmond be a one-off either. I picture it as being available, but you have to work really hard to find it. It should be found only in the deepest, darkest, most dangerous mines and dungeons. This would make it a rare commodity indeed.

Considering that the dwarves had originally found it hundreds of years prior, I would imagine that there would also be a few ancient Eisenmond weapons or other items floating about.
.....
I could even see Colin's thoughts on the Grasslands and old battlefields/barrows being good places to discover an Eisonmond blade or two (I'm picturing a group of halflings stumbling upon a cache of Eisenmond daggers after surviving an encounter with some barrow wights :mrgreen: ). I'm sure that the warlords of old payed hefty sums to the dwarven craftsmen for magical arms & armor.

Or a (very) few permanent Arrows of Dragon Slaying made of Eisonmond.
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Re: Eisenmond

Post by Giorgio » Tue Aug 17, 2010 1:56 pm

This “blue steel” sounds impressive, but its game mechanics don’t seem to back that claim up (at least in D&D 3E rules).

An increased bonus to attack dragons and a vague reference to weakening dragons when present in large quantities doesn’t sound like much (how often do people go around successfully incapacitating a dragon so it can be imprisoned?).

The first ability is a Bane enchantment bonus (a +1 bonus equivalent) vs. dragons:
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---fin ... l#TOC-Bane

Bane
A bane weapon excels against certain foes. Against a designated foe, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus. It also deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against the foe.


As you can already build anti-dragon weapons in the core rules, I don’t see this metals ability as unique.

The second ability is undefined, and left to the GM more as a plot device then as a magical ability.

Comparing Eisenmond to the other special materials also falls short:

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---fin ... -materials

Given the above, how hard it is to work, its rarity and insensibility of the ore, I don’t see this being such a hot commodity that would be fought over or that will disrupt life in the valley if found.

Am I missing something?

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Re: Eisenmond

Post by Big Mac » Sat Nov 22, 2014 11:33 pm

Havard wrote:Also, I am thinking about how to make this not just an asset for the PCs, but a threat as well? Maybe one of the citizens of Edgewater discovers a dagger made of Eisenmond. Next thing you have an invasion from the Marshwood lizardmen demanding the thing be destroyed. Stuff like that :)
Have you considered making Eisenmond negate the power-source of dragons, rather than negate their ability to use their power?

If you created a natural material, that acted the same as a +1 or +2 magical weapon (i.e. a free magic item that acts like the Bane weapon ability from 3e, that Giorgio spoke about) you could have that item use its negating power against other magical things.

If you went down that route, you could either have something "anti-magical" that automatically "leeched" power from magical items, or just have something that disabled magical items. Perhaps you could roll a d100, d20 or other die every day/week/month and have the Eisenmond item "attack" the closest magical source. :twisted:
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