Thunder Rift the Collection

From the Plunging Cataract Falls to the Keep of the Black Knight, the Rift offers a miniature world filled with friends and foes alike.
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Thunder Rift the Collection

Post by Gravesguardian » Thu Apr 12, 2018 9:08 pm

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1g3u1b ... Ic21tSbiAt

Thoughts and comments?

*Uploading an edited version that added my Wight's Castle information.
** Uploaded a newer version w/ links to ancient Blackmoor.
*** Uploaded a new version that includes the empty rooms (#24-28) in Zanzer's dungeon.

Replaced the "Work in Progress" pdf w/ the "Thunder Rift the Collection" pdf link.
Last edited by Gravesguardian on Sat May 12, 2018 4:36 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: A work in progress

Post by Sturm » Fri Apr 13, 2018 9:22 am

I did not have the chance to play my TR modules yet but this is really a very useful resource, thanks for compiling it!
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Re: A work in progress

Post by Gravesguardian » Fri Apr 13, 2018 4:24 pm

You're welcome. It's still subject to modification. The purpose of it is to try and tie everything together for a cohesive campaign. One thought I'm still toying w/ is that after completing EfTR, the party would be in the KW for the first part of WotI.
Another thing I'm considering is adding GL1 The Nameless Dungeon (levels 1-3) into the Horned Hills. The party would stumble across it enroute to the Eisenmond Blade quest from DragonQuest. Also, I'm thinking of adding DF17 Endless Tunnels of Enlandin (levels 2-4) into the Bone Hills. Both are found on the Dragonsfoot site. The problem w/ adding them is it may make a party of 8 too strong for Phase 1 of WotI. (respectively they add roughly: 3,405 r 6 & 8,537 r4 XP per PC. combined would equate to roughly: 11,943 r2. That could bump party levels to 6-8 rather than the 5-7 w/o either adventure. Oh & none of the XP totals include wandering monsters, so that can bump them higher.)
W/ The Nameless Dungeon I'ld change the books in the Tapestry library to having been written in ancient Blackmoor, which would help explain why the FULL value of the books is 50,000 gp.

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Re: A work in progress

Post by Gravesguardian » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:46 pm

After some minor math, I proved my concerns wrong:

43,486 r7
11,943 r2
-----------
55,429 r9
55,430 r1

Shadow Elf Shaman: 5/5 (32,000/23,430) (28,000/6,570 XP to 6/6)
Dwarf-Cleric: 5 (8,570 XP from 6th)
Halfling-Thief: 5 (570 XP from 6th)
Gnome: 5 (4,570 XP to 6th)
Gnome Spellcaster: 5/5 (32,000/23,430) (28,000/6,570 XP to 6/6)
Rakasta (any): 6 (14,570 XP to 7th)

Cleric: 7 (44,570 Xp to 8th)
Fighter: 6 (8,570 XP to 7th)
Magic-User 6 (24,570 Xp to 7th)
Thief: 7 (24,570 Xp to 8th)
Dwarf: 6 (14,570 XP to 7th)
Elf: 5 (8,570 XP to 6th)
Halfling: 6 (8,570 XP to 7th)

Mystic: 6 (8,570 XP to 7th)

Thoughts?

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Re: A work in progress

Post by Big Mac » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:21 pm

That looks useful.

Why don't you name the topic after your actual project "Thunder Rift adventures by region w/ levels and big boss" rather than call it "A work in progress". :-)
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Re: A work in progress

Post by Gravesguardian » Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:30 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:21 pm
That looks useful.

Why don't you name the topic after your actual project "Thunder Rift adventures by region w/ levels and big boss" rather than call it "A work in progress". :-)
Because the Title of the pdf is part of the work in progress. Maybe it's just me; but, it sounds like a rather long title. At some point, I'ld like to come up w/ one that's shorter.

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Re: A work in progress

Post by Gravesguardian » Sun Apr 15, 2018 12:56 am

Regardless of which town each PC is from, they all start in Zanzer Tem's dungeon. Each PC should have different memories before waking in the cell. (Thugs hitting them over the head at night. Ambushed by Orcs/Goblins while escorting a caravan. Arrested for a crime, whether they commited it or not, and sentenced to work their time off in the dungeon. Hired to investigate rumors that Zanzer Tem is illegally kidnapping people for his salt mine.) Unlike the group adventure, Adelle Kahoki should be added in to serve as a foil to Axel. (His bulliness to her royal bearing should be a great clash for PC's to witness. I do suggest raising Adelle's Strength to 13, for her to get +5% to XP, & raise her HP to 8 (rather than 4). The reasoning behind this: both Axel & Zanzer Tem have stats high enough for either +5% (Axel) or +10% (Zanzer). Further more, both Axel & Zanzer have good HP (Axel gets 6 w/o Con & Zanzer has 12, out of 16 max, so Adelle's HP should get adjusted up. Note that Axel, as a fighter should start w/ 9 HP max. Zanzer has no Con adjustment & Adelle loses 1 HP per level.)
Clearing the dungeon, gives the PC's several NPC's to deal w/....as long as all NPC's survive. They are: Axel, Adelle, Gorgo, the Gnomes: Willy, Billy, Gilly & Zilly; 6 feeble Human prisoners & 6 1st level Dwarves. All the NPC's can be left in the dungeon while the party then tackles Stonefast below. The Dwarves will encourage exploring Stonefast to recover the lost Dwarven treasure & find out how well it's faired. They will also promise the party a reward from Hearth-Home if they explore, clear & DON'T loot Stonefast.
After Stonefast, the party now has 2 options: escort the NPC's to Kleine or Hearth-Home. At this point the Dm has 2 paths to choose: if they go to Kleine, then run Red Hand Trail. If they go to Hearth-Home run Trouble Below.
Kleine path: escorting the NPC's to Kleine will get the party Red Hand Trail, Assualt on Raven's Ruin, then Trouble Below & finally Palace of Dread.
Hearth-Home path: escorting the NPC's to Hearth-Home will get the party Trouble Below, Red Hand Trail, Assualt on Raven's Ruin & finally Palace of Dread.
Which ever path the PC's take, they should end up back in Kleine & meet w/ Adelle. Adelle will hire the party to help her find her missing fiance (masculine form of fiancee) Elladin Silvercrest. While the party has been adventuring, Adelle will have learned that Elladin, & 3 other Elves, was last seen going to Torlynn. This will lead the party into Quest for the Silver Sword. Adelle will accompany the party on this mission.
After rescuing Elladin & solving Torlynn's "winter" problem, they'll be given the mission Rage of the Rakasta while Adelle, Elladin & the 3 Elves head home. After Rage of the Rakasta, the party receives: A Call to Glory, The Eisenmond Blade & Jaws of Flame. After Jaws of Flame, the party will be told about a mission in Edgewater: A Way with Words. Once Edgewater's mission is done, the party will find a notice for help in Melinir.
The party's mission path in Melinir will be: Wild Dragon's Den, Knight of Newts, Wyrmhaven, Sword & Shield & League of the Red Serpent. Once that path is finished, Pickman will hire the party to investigate a Ghost Ship: In the Phantom's Wake, & will provide the means for the party to reach the ship. The Astrolab on the ship will return the party to Mage Island at which point they'll be hired to investigate The Haunted Tower: Fighter's Academy, Tower's of Evil & Lair of the Vampire Lord. Once the Haunted Tower is complete, the party will receive a request from Hearth-Home for help: Escape from Thunder Rift.
Where the party goes from here is up to the Dm; but, the party should remember that Hearth-Home owes them some money (1,000 gp or 2,000 gp each, depending on if they got an advance.) By this time the party should be 5th-7th level, depending on how many are in the party.

Thinking of adding this to the pdf. Thoughts?
Last edited by Gravesguardian on Sun May 06, 2018 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: A work in progress

Post by Gravesguardian » Sun Apr 15, 2018 3:21 am

And now a part that should really be interesting:

What if we've had it wrong all these years? That wonderful solo adventure from Frank Mentzer's Red Box? "Your hometown is just a small place with dirt roads." Can we say "Torlynn or Edgewater" anyone? Ah but Aleena & Bargle are from Threshold....really? No where in either solo or group adventure is Threshold mentioned. What if both Aleena & Bargle actually grew up in Thunder Rift? But Aleena's uncle is in Threshold!! Yes, he is; but, it doesn't say Aleena's parents were from there. It does however state that after her parents died, she went to live w/ her uncle.
Now some might say that since Thunder Rift is unknown & hidden, they can't be from there. Sure they can. Thunder Rift use to be part of a Kingdom, hence mention of a King's Barge rumor. So what if Thunder Rift were part of Karameikos long before Thyatis took it over? Knowledge of it may have been lost after the death of the King & it would've remained forgotten to "most" of the people. Perhaps the Emperor of Thyatis learned of it from old musty records, or from old wives tales told by people living out that way.
This gives Aleena a good reason to have grown up in Thunder Rift....her parents were sent there to build trust & a connection w/ the Riftians! (Her father was, after all, in service to the Emperor at the time he & his wife died.) Bargle, at the time, was just a snot-nosed punk bouncing between mentors when Aleena's parents arrived in the Rift.
Now if you place the unnamed fighter's hometown as Edgewater/Torlynn, & figure that Aleena grew up in Melinir, then it would place the starting caves somewhere in between. Unless, Aleena was not out of Melinir at the time. Having had "some" adventuring experience, it's possible that the reason she couldn't find a party to work w/ is that she was in Edgewater/Torlynn & all the local "adventurers" were off somewhere else.
Now it does say that after her parents died she moved to Karameikos to live w/ her uncle. It's also possible that when she was brought to the church after Bargle killed her, that her body was sent to her uncle in Karameikos & he revived her or had her revived. Once she's back to life, she tells her uncle the story of how & where she died & he in turn alerts Duke Stephen to the existence of Thunder Rift.

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Re: A work in progress

Post by Big Mac » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:27 am

Gravesguardian wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:30 pm
Big Mac wrote:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:21 pm
That looks useful.

Why don't you name the topic after your actual project "Thunder Rift adventures by region w/ levels and big boss" rather than call it "A work in progress". :-)
Because the Title of the pdf is part of the work in progress. Maybe it's just me; but, it sounds like a rather long title. At some point, I'ld like to come up w/ one that's shorter.
Fair enough. It is a bit long.

But the start of the title of your PDF is "Thunder Rift adventures by region" and that seems like a very snappy title to me. It feels like the sort of thing that a fan would type into Google, when looking for the sort of thing your project is creating for them.

Anyhoo, thanks for making this thing. It's going to be very useful to people getting into Thunder Rift.
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Re: A work in progress

Post by Gravesguardian » Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:42 pm

Question: is there a canon source stating how large an area each dragon needs?

So far, based off the accepted TR adventures, we have no less than 8 dragons (Kamro the White, Hakra the Black (w/ 2 hatchlings), Nefastus the Green, Estorax Rex a Red, Anandak a Red & Scorch a Red). Kamro is in the N of TR, Scorch is to the SW, Anandak is to the SSE, Estorax would be to the E and both Hakra & Nefastus are in the central/SE central.

With the original map saying 1" = 1 mile, total 21 miles wide (E-W) by 32 miles long (N-S) it doesn't seem to give each of them enough hunting room. If there is a canon source listing how much area a dragon needs, then we can better determine just how big TR is.

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Re: A work in progress

Post by Gravesguardian » Tue Apr 24, 2018 5:10 pm

A thought I'm tossing around that pertains to the Dragon Card method of creating characters during play:

Each PC awakens in the cell suffering from a "drug-induced" amnesia. As the game progresses they start remembering little bits & pieces. Starting w/ the rolling of stats, then remembering how to use various weapons, then to armor, thieving skills (if any), spells (class dependant). To my way of thinking this is a method that could be used on both new & experienced gamers alike.
Progressing thru the amnesia would also let the player fill-in the PC's backstory & general skills as the adventure progressed.

Comments?

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Re: A work in progress

Post by Gravesguardian » Mon May 07, 2018 1:20 am

The newest incarnation of my work in progress, now renamed to: Thunder Rift the Collection

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1g3u1b ... Ic21tSbiAt

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Re: A work in progress

Post by Sturm » Mon May 07, 2018 9:40 am

Great, maybe now you could rename the thread too :)
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Re: A work in progress

Post by Gravesguardian » Mon May 07, 2018 2:38 pm

Sturm wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 9:40 am
Great, maybe now you could rename the thread too :)
I'll rename the thread when someone tells me how to edit the title.

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Re: A work in progress

Post by Sturm » Mon May 07, 2018 3:48 pm

Just clicking on the button "Edit" in your first post should work, IIRC.
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Re: A work in progress

Post by Gravesguardian » Mon May 07, 2018 4:04 pm

Sturm wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 3:48 pm
Just clicking on the button "Edit" in your first post should work, IIRC.
Yep that did it, thanks.

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Re: A work in progress

Post by RobJN » Mon May 07, 2018 5:29 pm

Gravesguardian wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 4:42 pm
Question: is there a canon source stating how large an area each dragon needs?

So far, based off the accepted TR adventures, we have no less than 8 dragons (Kamro the White, Hakra the Black (w/ 2 hatchlings), Nefastus the Green, Estorax Rex a Red, Anandak a Red & Scorch a Red). Kamro is in the N of TR, Scorch is to the SW, Anandak is to the SSE, Estorax would be to the E and both Hakra & Nefastus are in the central/SE central.

With the original map saying 1" = 1 mile, total 21 miles wide (E-W) by 32 miles long (N-S) it doesn't seem to give each of them enough hunting room. If there is a canon source listing how much area a dragon needs, then we can better determine just how big TR is.
Bruce had a couple articles on the dragons of the Known World/Basic D&D dragons in .... was it Dragon Magazines 170 and 171..? (Yes: "From Hatchling to Immortal Guardian" in 170, and "Who's Who Among Dragons" in 171 -- This one, I think, might have details on dragons' "turf" and how large an area they might command. It's been forever since I read those articles...
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Re: Thunder Rift the Collection

Post by Gravesguardian » Mon May 07, 2018 10:49 pm

I don't currently have access to either of those articles, so if someone that does could post the relevant info then we can start doing the math.

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Re: Thunder Rift the Collection

Post by Gravesguardian » Mon May 07, 2018 10:53 pm

I'm posting this in Thunder Rift due to the existence of an Elf-Cleric & Halfling-Thief in the Setting Book.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1TiwQ1 ... h83Zcovksm

Not sure if it should be added to my "collection" pdf or not. Input?

*Editted to include the Halfling-Cleric.
(I have no intention of doing any Demi-Human+Magic-User charts.)
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Re: Thunder Rift the Collection

Post by RobJN » Tue May 08, 2018 8:17 am

Gravesguardian wrote:
Mon May 07, 2018 10:49 pm
I don't currently have access to either of those articles, so if someone that does could post the relevant info then we can start doing the math.
Sweet! Reprinted at the Vaults of Pandius:
http://pandius.com/immguard.html
http://pandius.com/whoswho.html
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Re: Thunder Rift the Collection

Post by Gravesguardian » Tue May 08, 2018 4:08 pm

Thanks for the links. After reading both of them I've found the following:

Marudi: (14 HP Blue Dragon) 40 mile radius territory
Argos: (14 HD Green Dragon) "entire Dymrak Forest is his territory" ?#1
Attura: (16 HD Green Dragon) "some entrances as far away as 80 miles"
Azem: (18 HD Gold Dragon) territory covers an 80 mile radius
Khanistar: (17 HD Blue Dragon) "territory stretches 80 miles in all direction"
Thalkor: (13 HD Black Dragon) "covers all of the Malpheggi Swamps in Darokin" ?#2
Thundar: (13 HD Sea Dragon) 80 mile radius

? #1: what are the dimensions of the Dymrak Forest
? #2: what are the dimensions of the Malpheggi Swamps in Darokin

The Dragon's listed above are merely the ones whose description gave any kind of numerical areas.
Now we list the Thunder Rift dimensions & Dragon's (Canon first, then accepted Canon):

Canon dimensions of Thunder Rift: 21 miles East-West by 32 miles North-South

Thunder Rift Dragons: (True Canon)
Estorax Rex (10** HD Red Dragon) DragonQuest: Jaws of Flame
Scorch (20**** HD Red Dragon) Thunder Rift setting
Thunder Rift Dragons: (accepted Canon)
Kamro: (3+2 HD White Dragon) Escape from Zanzer Tem's Dungeon - Stonefast
Hakra (5** HD Black Dragon w/ 2 nameless 1 HD each young Black Dragons) Dragon's Den boxset: Wild Dragon's Den
Nefastus (6** HD Green Dragon) Dragon's Den boxset: Wyrmhaven
Anandak (8** HD Red Dragon) Dragon's Den boxset: League of the Red Serpent

Strictly by Canon dimensions we see that TR is barely large enough for 1 Dragon, much less 8.

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Re: Thunder Rift the Collection

Post by Gravesguardian » Tue May 08, 2018 4:50 pm

Now granted TR dragons are all on the small scale, except for Scorch, so we could get away w/ maybe cutting the territorial numbers by half. I'll edit all of this after I find out the size of both the Dymrak Forest & the Malpheggi Swamps; but, if we look at just Marudi w/ a 40 mile radius territory & 14 HD then we see that all of the "accepted Canon" Dragon's are roughly half or less of Marudi's HD. Anandak at 8 HD might claim a 20 mile radius territory. Kamro at 3+2 HD & Hakra at 5** HD might both claim a 5 mile radius territory each. Leaving Nefastus at 6** HD maybe claiming a 10 mile radius territory. For the "True Canon" Dragons we can easily place Scorch w/ 20**** HD as claiming an 80 miles radius territory & Estorax Rex w/ 10** HD as claiming a 25-30 mile radius territory.
To me that would give TR dimensions of: 80 miles (Scorch) + 20 miles (Anandak) + 25-30 miles (Estorax) = 125-130 miles East-West by 80 miles (Scorch) + 50-60 miles (Estorax) + 10 miles (Kamro) = 140-150 miles North-South. Of course this kind of math was never my strong suit in school, so I obviously don't know what I'm doing. I left out Hakra & Nefastus from the numbers since their territories are in the central regions of TR and would be overshadowed by the North-South radius of Estorax.
Hopefully someone w/ more knowledge on the math can fix this. Also I didn't take into account the empty region between Extorax's northern most reach & Kamro's southern most claim.
*Side note* Since I believe most people accept that the Sword & Wand War occurred w/in the last 30 years of TR's timeline, I'm NOT using this as a means to alter Canon population. Primary reason: a war of that magnitude ending a mere 30 years ago "should" mean that the population is still slowly recovering.

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Re: Thunder Rift the Collection

Post by Gravesguardian » Tue May 08, 2018 6:06 pm

Okay, Gaz. 11 The Republic of Darokin answered my question on the Malpheggi Swamps: pg. 47 states It is a huge and wholly unpleasant place, measuring 80 miles by 150 miles. I believe that would translate to roughly 75 miles radius. Still trying to get measurements for the Dymrak Forest. Gaz. 1 The Grand Duchy of Karameikos states on pg. 35 "It stretches all the way from the borders of the Barony Kelvin to the border of Thyatis." Now that's the East-West; but, it doesn't list the North-South boundaries. Also I checked the module: DDA4 The Dymrak Dread; but, it never gives dimensions on the actual forest.

Ok, from VoP: The Unknown World Trail Map part 1 I finally found a listing on the Dymrak Forests dimensions:
90 miles East-West by 36 miles North-South. I'm guessing those are fanon dimensions; but, I think it'll place the Draconic territory at roughly a 45 mile radius?

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Re: Thunder Rift the Collection

Post by Sturm » Wed May 09, 2018 10:01 am

The UnKnown World Trail Map is mine. In that series I assumed a 8 miles hex can support a dragon, considering the Dragon Rulers of Bruce's article should be considered to have several dragon vassals, probably with their families. So you end up having a 8 miles hex where there are actually 10-20 dragons or even more which control a territory of 80-160 miles (diameter).
But much depends on how you see dragon in your campaign. I like the approach of the Dragonlord trilogy, where dragons are intelligent and organized. They do not need hunting grounds as modern humans do not need them. They are intelligent and "civilized" enough to produce food in other ways, let alone they have powerful magic. Even if you want to assume they eat deers and such, a powerful dragon could easily submit a whole tribe of humanoid/lizardmen to do hunting and foraging for him/her.
Obviously early D&D had the classic dragon as a lonesome monster in his lair, more beast than intelligent creature, but now I find this approach completely unreasonable for creatures indicated as intelligent.
Why should a dragon sitting in his lair and hunt like a lonesome predator when we can have some hundreds minions to defend his/her lair and produce anything she/he may need?
But clearly it's your campaign, and if you want to decide all dragons are misantropic/misdraconic and paranoid so they live alone despite the obvious disavantage of doing so, go with it.
In light of the above, to me the number of dragons in TR is perfectly reasonable, I would even increase it :)
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Re: Thunder Rift the Collection

Post by Gravesguardian » Wed May 09, 2018 4:28 pm

Thanks for making the UWTM.
I would think that even dragons whose minions are hunting & gathering for them should still have a personal lair territory, even if they are vassal to another dragon. If you can fit 10-20 dragons in a single 8 mile hex & have them collectively control a territory of 80-160 miles diameter (40-80 miles radius) then I'm just gonna shutup & forget I even started this particular line of thought.

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