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Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:29 pm
by Gravesguardian
Following Havard's suggestion and to avoid further cluttering up a different thread, here is an optional way to place TR in Mystara:

Or screw with everyone's heads and make the Wizard Hector's ancestor and place all of the TR adventures in the past of whatever country you want as a lead up to the Goblin Wars. Hector's castle gets removed to the HW, TR is completely destroyed in the GW and whatever country's past you placed it in can now come into being atop TR's ruins.
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One of my reason for that remark has to do with the size of Thunder Rift. We all know that mileage on the "canon" map is a blatant lie. At 21 miles West to East and 32 miles North to South, its way too small for all the adventures: since many of then actually do give travel distances. Sword and Shield, for instance, lists Avenal as being "a week of travel" from the PC's hometown (see pg. 6). The Campaign Setting Book says to "assume" walking 20 miles a day or riding 40 miles a day (see pg. 5). In another post me and someone else calculated that the proper size for TR is roughly 216 North to South by 144 miles East to West; which as they pointed out: makes Thunder Rift larger than Karameikos. Unless you place TR in the past of an already existing country, there is no room in the Known World for it to fit.
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another possible reason to set TR adventures in the past: Most folks seems to set the Sword vs. Wand War as ending 30 years before the adventures take place, which would help account for the low population numbers; BUT it would also account for the events leading up to WotES. With the SvW War ending 30 years ago, human and demi-human populations are at an all time low. Goblinoids choose this oppurtunity to erupt from their scattered lairs to overwhelm the small groups of survivors of the SvW War. While some dwarves seal themselves in Hearth-Home to survive and some elves hide deep in their forest, the rest of the surface population is on the brink of being utterly wiped out, so Ka saves their final remnant and places it in the HW.

Now, none of that helps place TR in the Known World; but, Mystara canon "perhaps" does:

1700 BC: Elves find artifact of Blackmoor in the Broken Lands and trigger a cataclysm which buries the Horde. Loark dies, the remains of the horde break apart. Elves driven out of Glantri by local cataclysms.

What if "the Broken Lands" was just another name for Thunder Rift and the Riftian elves had been using the artifact as a clan relic; but, when the hordes (Goblinoids) overran the Rift, they unknowingly trigger the artifacts full power, wiping out TR and truly creating the Broken Lands?
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Those are my 3 posts, from the prior mentioned thread, that "could" help explain why TR "was" located in the Known World; but, no longer exists at the time of the Gazeteers.

Discussion time :D

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:48 pm
by Sturm
The past makes much more sense than the present, but I still prefer present Skothar :)

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Tue Jun 18, 2019 4:24 pm
by Gravesguardian
Sturm wrote:
Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:48 pm
The past makes much more sense than the present, but I still prefer present Skothar :)
So do I; but, I'm just tossing out ideas to help folks place TR in the Known World.

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Tue Jun 25, 2019 12:19 pm
by Tom Bulls Eye
In the campaign I have started for my kid, it is an island south of Karameikos, where the caravan road out of the Rift leads to a small port town (Hafn), from where (on day) heroes may sail anywhere, but few arrive, keeping the island remote yet connected to the world.

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:25 pm
by ripvanwormer
Gravesguardian wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:29 pm
One of my reason for that remark has to do with the size of Thunder Rift. We all know that mileage on the "canon" map is a blatant lie. At 21 miles West to East and 32 miles North to South, its way too small for all the adventures: since many of then actually do give travel distances. Sword and Shield, for instance, lists Avenal as being "a week of travel" from the PC's hometown (see pg. 6).
It seems just as reasonable to assume the travel times are wrong (or "a blatant lie") as it is to assume the map size is wrong. Is there a reason you prefer the latter explanation to the former?

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 4:04 pm
by Gravesguardian
ripvanwormer wrote:
Sat Sep 21, 2019 8:25 pm
Gravesguardian wrote:
Sun Jun 16, 2019 5:29 pm
One of my reason for that remark has to do with the size of Thunder Rift. We all know that mileage on the "canon" map is a blatant lie. At 21 miles West to East and 32 miles North to South, its way too small for all the adventures: since many of then actually do give travel distances. Sword and Shield, for instance, lists Avenal as being "a week of travel" from the PC's hometown (see pg. 6).
It seems just as reasonable to assume the travel times are wrong (or "a blatant lie") as it is to assume the map size is wrong. Is there a reason you prefer the latter explanation to the former?
My reason for choosing to call the map a lie is that enough of the canon adventures give distance measurements to contradict the map. With multiple contradictions, I prefer to err on the side of the majority and say that the map is wrong.

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:26 pm
by ripvanwormer
I think that's a valid heuristic, but not more valid than any other. It's an imaginary world, so there's no objective truth to be found.

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Mon Sep 23, 2019 9:26 am
by Sturm
Also for a setting point of view, a bigger Rift makes much more sense than a smaller one. If the dungeon is just one hour from the village it's a bit strange that the locals do not know much about it, but if it's a day from the village, it makes a bit more sense. Obviously it's just fantasy, but generally longer distance are much better for my suspension of disbelief.

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:03 am
by McDeath
Hey Havard do you happen to have the map on hand for this thread?
https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/view ... 31&t=74681

Seems OP hasn't posted in a while and the link is long gone now.

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 9:06 pm
by Havard
McDeath wrote:
Mon Nov 04, 2019 10:03 am
Hey Havard do you happen to have the map on hand for this thread?
https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/view ... 31&t=74681

Seems OP hasn't posted in a while and the link is long gone now.
Hmmm...
I have several TR maps by various fans on my HD, but this one was labelled mb27ic.jpg and doesn't match any of the ones I've been able to find so far.

I might have renamed it before saving it, but can't see any that match right away. :/

Any idea what type of map this was?

-Havard

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 12:55 am
by McDeath
It was a pretty small map of Thunder Rift with 31 locations marked on it. Honestly, this is a very very small TR map where 1 hex must equal a lot of miles. Lordy, I won't be back in Oregon any time soon but I know I copied it as I often save webpages and copy maps just in case the page doesn't load up correctly while offline. Man, when you see it you'll see how small it is. Dinky but 31 or so locations (I assume from the modules)

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:07 pm
by McDeath
Rounser found a backup
DF Thunderrift 31 hex map
Image

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 12:08 pm
by McDeath
Image

Hmmm 200% just isn't sprite perfect.

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 2:51 pm
by Havard
Thanks for sharing it! :)

-Havard

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:07 pm
by McDeath
Rounser actually asked if there was a way for it to be archived on the Vaults. I told him to contact you.

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:11 pm
by Havard
McDeath wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:07 pm
Rounser actually asked if there was a way for it to be archived on the Vaults. I told him to contact you.
I'm sure Shawn would be perfectly happy to host this at the Vaults. It is better if Rounser contacts him directly at the email adress found on the Pandius main page: http://pandius.com/index.html

-Havard

Re: Placing Thunder Rift in the Known World

Posted: Sat Nov 16, 2019 3:07 pm
by stanles
Havard wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:11 pm
McDeath wrote:
Wed Nov 13, 2019 6:07 pm
Rounser actually asked if there was a way for it to be archived on the Vaults. I told him to contact you.
I'm sure Shawn would be perfectly happy to host this at the Vaults. It is better if Rounser contacts him directly at the email adress found on the Pandius main page: http://pandius.com/index.html

-Havard
I had already taken it for the Vaults but now I see that Gnarfunk has put it here ... they may be the same person given the other map we have from Gnarfunk on the Vaults