4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

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Yaztromo
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4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by Yaztromo » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:28 am

It feels like yesterday...
I'm the Real Nowhere Man, sitting in my Nowhere Land,
making all my Nowhere plans for Nobody.

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by vestcoat » Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:41 am

Yeah and ALL of his post-TSR IP remains ransomed and squandered. :(

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by Havard » Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:27 pm

vestcoat wrote:Yeah and ALL of his post-TSR IP remains ransomed and squandered. :(
Some of those properties are owned by Wotc and others are controlled by the widow. Are there other UP owners too? Do Troll Lords own anything?

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by vestcoat » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:11 am

Not that I've seen. Look in almost any post-TSR Gygax book and his content is licensed to the publishers by Trigee. Troll Lords, Corsair, Mongoose, etc., have nothing. The only exception I can think of is Frog God/Necromancer are still selling PDF's of Gary's Necropolis.

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by Angel Tarragon » Sat Mar 10, 2018 12:58 am

Yaztromo wrote:It feels like yesterday...
:( Can't believe it's been that long.

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by finarvyn » Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:16 pm

vestcoat wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:41 am
Yeah and ALL of his post-TSR IP remains ransomed and squandered. :(
This is very frustrating. Gary was such a productive person and creative writer, and his materials ought to be out there for folks to enjoy while they still remember who he was. Sadly, there will come a time when no one will remember Gary (or Dave or any of the original crew) and at that point it will be too late.

I feel like this is the same problem that Zelazny's estate ran into, where there was some infighting and nothing by Roger is currently on bookshelves and eventually he will have been forgotten. :(
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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by shesheyan » Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:41 pm

finarvyn wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 3:16 pm
vestcoat wrote:
Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:41 am
Yeah and ALL of his post-TSR IP remains ransomed and squandered. :(
This is very frustrating. Gary was such a productive person and creative writer, and his materials ought to be out there for folks to enjoy while they still remember who he was. Sadly, there will come a time when no one will remember Gary (or Dave or any of the original crew) and at that point it will be too late.

I feel like this is the same problem that Zelazny's estate ran into, where there was some infighting and nothing by Roger is currently on bookshelves and eventually he will have been forgotten. :(
That is why we have public librairies. I can find a lot of 50-80s material on the shelves and its free. Used book stores are also preservers of older material.

I doubt Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson will be forgotten. Unless a planet wide catastrophic event destroys all digital back ups their work is legally and illegally alive in the form of PDFs on a «gazillion» personal computers and devices. But the situation with the infighting is certainly very sad.

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by vestcoat » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:49 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Sat Mar 31, 2018 4:41 pm
I doubt Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson will be forgotten. Unless a planet wide catastrophic event destroys all digital back ups their work is legally and illegally alive in the form of PDFs on a «gazillion» personal computers and devices. But the situation with the infighting is certainly very sad.
Gary & Dave won't be forgotten, but the extent Gail Gygax is withholding Gary's gifts to the world while she waits for a dumptruck of money should not be minimized. She had no grounds to stop Gygax Magazine, but nonetheless hampered and harassed it until they finally shut down. She keeps the last Gord the Rogue novel under lock and key and in 2016 threatened the only other owner of the manuscript. She's sitting on 16 Yggsburgh expansions and who-knows-how-much Zagyg material. She held The Teeth of the Dalhver-Nar module back ten years because the author merely consulted with Gary. None of this stuff is on many hard drives. And then there's all of the stuff that WAS released in small quantities and idles needlessly out-of-print while D&D surges to an all-time high in popularity. The Upper Works has become the collector/hoarder money maker of the decade. Some of the Gygaxian World volumes sell for close to $100. Hall of Many Panes has doubled in price. Cheers, Gary vanished instantly. The Gygax memorial is going nowhere.

Anyway, I know you're not really arguing with any of this. I'm just ranting.

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by willpell » Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:56 pm

The Teeth of the Dalhver-Nar module
The WHAT? I need details, now!

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by shesheyan » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:06 am

willpell wrote:
Sun Apr 15, 2018 10:56 pm
The Teeth of the Dalhver-Nar module
The WHAT? I need details, now!
From the Dragonsfoot forum : (https://www.dragonsfoot.org/forums/view ... 11&t=78175)
Hi everyone,

I've been keeping this under my hat for a little while so I thought I'd go ahead and spread the good news: I will be running the module I worked on for Gary Gygax, Teeth of the Barkash Nour at GaryCon X in March of 2018! It will be strictly for 1e AD&D rules (PHB only, please).

I'm pretty excited about this since it'll be the first public showing of something I put a lot of work into and that along the way of its development, Gary guided and approved of. It was really only the interference of one person that prevented its eventual publication but now, ten years later, if you're at GaryCon folks will finally get the chance to play it!

The fabled "Teeth of the Barkash Nour" are the original "Teeth of the Dalhver-Nar" as eventually featured in the Dungeon Masters Guide for 1st Edition AD&D. While the module itself was written for Castles & Crusades, the notes I worked off of were definitely OD&D/AD&D.

If you're going to be there I hope you get a chance to sit down and play or at the very least stop by and spectate.

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by willpell » Mon Apr 16, 2018 2:47 am

OK, so the Teeth were in 1E? How did they work, since Binding hadn't been conceived of yet? How many were there, and what beings were they associated with? (Acererak was a gimme, and possibly a couple others, but most of the 32 vestiges in 3E's Tome of Magic are just Goetic demons out of the Lesser Key of Solomon, with their human parts randomly replaced by elves, dwarves, genies and so forth; I'm guessing those aren't in there.)

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by Yaztromo » Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:13 am

It saddens me a lot noticing that all discussions about Gary (and his legacy) quickly turn into discussing money and IP issues :(
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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by shesheyan » Mon Apr 16, 2018 12:53 pm

Yaztromo wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:13 am
It saddens me a lot noticing that all discussions about Gary (and his legacy) quickly turn into discussing money and IP issues :(
When I look back, five things were seminal in my hobby-teen life. My bicycle. Seeing Star Wars and spending a summer trying to build a R2D2 with car windshield wiper motors and bicycle parts. Estes miniature rocket kits and powder booster motors. Buying a french magazine called Jeux & Stratégie (Games & Strategy). My Moldvay Basic D&D Box. What Gary and Dave gave me was a way to focus and develop my design and social skills like no other activity had done before. Being a DM gave me confidence to go forth into the world and do what I wanted to do. A commercial artist and make a living with my trade.

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by vestcoat » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:42 pm

Yaztromo wrote:
Mon Apr 16, 2018 5:13 am
It saddens me a lot noticing that all discussions about Gary (and his legacy) quickly turn into discussing money and IP issues :(
You're misinterpreting the topic. The discussions you've seen aren't about money and IP, they're about half of Gary's lifework being squandered, imprisoned, and ransomed for a decade now. It's about greed. Less than a thousand copies exist of his career capstone. The magazine honoring his name was basically forced out of business. It's an injustice. We don't care who the owner is and to whom we give our money -- that's not what's being talked about -- fans just want to play and read more Gygax. If we didn't love him, we wouldn't lament his out-of-print and unpublished works.

Sure, it would be nice to ignore the problem at hand and just give each other warm fuzzies about how much we love Gary, but we already do that. Forums and FB groups are full of endless stories about times shared playing his modules, which ones are our favorites, how to tie them together, and how we met him at conventions.

Talking about problems isn't negative. It's the first step to change. Most of his fans don't even know we're missing the above-mentioned works.

Now I know some toadying, yesman, copyright worshiper is going to jump in and point out that his widow is within her legal rights -- duh. My point is her actions are completely contrary to everything Gary ever did.

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by vestcoat » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:57 pm

Nevermind. Soon we can play Gary's work and exercise our imaginations alone in front of glowing rectangles:

https://www.polygon.com/2018/4/17/17246 ... d-work-fig

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by willpell » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:46 am

So apparently Gary's son Alex owns a pub franchise called Sprecher's? I wonder if they have any relationship to the makers of Puma Kola. The coat of arms looks similar to the soda bottler's logo....

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by vestcoat » Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:52 am

willpell wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:46 am
So apparently Gary's son Alex owns a pub franchise called Sprecher's?
Not even. He's "one of the lead bartenders." Emphasis on the "one."

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Re: 4th March 2008-2018: ten years without Gary

Post by Angelika Tatsu » Wed Apr 18, 2018 3:22 am

Yaztromo wrote:
Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:28 am
It feels like yesterday...
I know. I got the chance to meet him once. Got my picture taken with him. I'm forever grateful of everything he's done for the hobby.
In affectus veritá.

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