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Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:13 am
by Big Mac
While I was distracted by real life™ a Savage Worlds Kickstarter for Sovereign Stone came out! It got fully funded in just four hours!

From what I can tell, from the Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter page, the project has funded:
  • A Sovereign Stone Corebook (in PDF, softback and hardback),
  • A Sovereign Stone Players Guide (in PDF, softback and hardback),
  • GM screen inserts,
  • A one sheet adventure from Jonathan Thompson,
  • Half a dozen pregenerated characters,
  • Bestiary of Loerem and
  • Tales of Loerem (a book of eight adventures).
It looks like the Kickstarter project is currently on hold, while Pinnacle Entertainment Group finish work on the Savage Worlds Adventure Edition Kickstarter. I guess that means the Savage Worlds content needs to be checked to make sure it conforms with any last minute improvements to the Savage Worlds system.

Is anyone on The Piazza a backer? If you are, have you seen any playtest content? How does it compare to earlier Sovereign Stone products? How does it compare to other Savage Worlds products?

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:45 am
by Havard
Cool!

Its nice to see more Sovereign Stone support out there. I did not back this one, but I might pick up some of the books later

-Havard

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:37 am
by Big Mac
Havard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 1:45 am
Its nice to see more Sovereign Stone support out there. I did not back this one, but I might pick up some of the books later.
Sovereign Stone does seem to be a bit underated.

Tales of Loerem seems to be the main new thing for Savage Worlds. That might sell to fans of the previous editions, even if they don't convert to Savage Worlds rules. (I wonder if it will get converted to Pathfinder later.)

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:00 pm
by Falconer

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:23 pm
by Havard
Falconer wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:00 pm
It’s not basically this?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/14 ... eign-Stone
Interesting.

Is Timeout Diversions Tony Lee's company? It seems to be selling all of the books from the Kickstarter.

-Havard

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:12 pm
by Tim Baker
What makes Sovereign Stone different from other fantasy settings?

If you're a fan of the setting, do you think Savage Worlds will be a better fit than D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder have been?

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 10:37 pm
by Big Mac
Falconer wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:00 pm
It’s not basically this?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/14 ... eign-Stone
Good question!

That's called Adventure Anthology rather than Tales of Loerem, but I suppose that Tales of Loerem could be a reworking.

Lets see if we can get any further information.

The preview of Adventure Anthology has the Table of Contents and lists the following chapter names:
  1. Escape Into Darkness
  2. Sanctuary
  3. Hide and Seek
  4. A Tangled Web
  5. A Simple Job
  6. Eyes of the Bahk
  7. Envolys Of Shadmehr
I don't remember if the Kickstarter said any of those adventures were older adventures being reworked for the Pathfinder Kickstarter. You are the expert Falconer. Do you recognise any of the names from d20 System or Sovereign Stone system products?

The stretch goal information on the Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter page has the Tales of Loerem stretch goal down as having eight adventures:
Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter wrote:£3,500 Tales of Loerem
PDF Digital Reward
This stretch goal is a book of eight full adventures; including one by David Underwood. We will also include the previous One Sheets in the book.
It doesn't actually list the adventure names, so I'm not sure if they have recycled the Pathfinder adventures, but even if they had* there would be one new adventure.

* = This is probably an important bit of information for anyone considering buying into parts of the Savage Worlds Kickstarter to get stuff to use with earlier rules. Buying a Pathfinder book and a Savage Worlds book and getting an extra 15 adventures would be a totally different return of investment to buying those two books and getting seven reboots of older adventures and only one new adventure.

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:55 pm
by Big Mac
Havard wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 4:23 pm
Falconer wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:00 pm
It’s not basically this?
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/14 ... eign-Stone
Interesting.

Is Timeout Diversions Tony Lee's company? It seems to be selling all of the books from the Kickstarter.
Yes. But it's DriveThru RPG selling Timeout Diversions products on their behalf. I'm not sure that Tony Lee is doing anything there (except working behind the scenes to make sure he has enough funds to get every book.

The entire point of a Kickstarter is to allow a creator to get products to the market and with a lot of people using DriveThru (and their access to Print on Demand distribution via Lightning Source) for fulfilment, the process of getting the products out to the backers and the process of getting them on sale to non-backers is pretty much the same.

Anyhoo, this new Kickstarter (for Sovereign Stone) is not by Tony Lee (or Timeout Diversions). But I think it will also go to DriveThru RPG, when the products are finished...and sent out to the backers.

(I get the impression that a lot of designers are delivering PDFs to backers early, in the hopes that some of the backers will act as secondary proof-readers and help find the few errors that might slip past the proof readers. And if the backers are waiting for the printed copies, and have access to the PDFs, it's also in their interest to find bugs and pass them on, so that the books get corrected before they are printed.)

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:39 am
by Big Mac
Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:12 pm
What makes Sovereign Stone different from other fantasy settings?
That question might be slightly outside the scope of this Kickstarter topic, as it is something that is constant for all the various editions.

But the unique selling-point of the setting is the stone the setting is named after. The Sovereign Stone is something sent by the gods (or powers of some sort). It got given to the humans, but after three of the other big racial groups were complaining, the leader of the humans decided to break it up into four, so that the humans could keep a piece, and the dwarves, elves and orcs could each get their own piece.

Each of the four major races have their own magical powers, which seem to be tied into a specific element. (I forget which element goes with which race, right now, but there might be another Piazza topic about this.)

The son of the human who split the Sovereign Stone discovered that there was a fifth part of the stone between the other four parts. An invisible part called the Void. And he learned that he could obtain this part of the stone and learn Void magic. The Void magic could do what all the other types of magic could do, but it was somehow evil and turned people into something a bit like a lich or a vampire.

The trilogy of novels shows a conflict over the Sovereign Stone and the different types of magic that it helps provide the various major races.

And I don't recall the magic being similar enough to arcane magic and divine magic in D&D, so I'm sure that is a big difference.

Having orcs as one of the four major races (instead of halflings or gnomes) is also a significant difference.

This is all from memory, so I might be a bit off on specific points. Take a look for topics on anything you want to know more about, or start a new "{Sovereign Stone}" topic in Other Worlds. :)
Tim Baker wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 10:12 pm
If you're a fan of the setting, do you think Savage Worlds will be a better fit than D&D 3.5 and Pathfinder have been?
I have no idea with this. I've not met enough people who play Sovereign Stone to get a clear indication of the relative merits of the original (Cortex-like) system, the 3.0 system, the 3.5 system (which I don't think was well supported - I think the publisher went under, while it was gearing up) the Pathfinder system or the Savage Worlds system.

It did look to me that Tony Lee was consolodating a lot of loose ends for the Pathfinder rules. But that's more of a "learning from previous projects" thing than an aspect that proves that Pathfinder is a "better fit".

I do especially think that if things work with Pathfinder, that they could be retroconverted to 3.5 and/or 3.0, so I think that fans of the Sovereign Press products could buy the Pathfinder products and raid them for house rules.

I'm not so sure of the situation with Savage Worlds. I don't know the system, so I'm not sure how compatible it is with earlier rules (or how easy it would be for fans of earlier rules to use Savage Worlds products as inspiration for house rules for earlier rulesets).

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:02 am
by Tim Baker
Thanks for taking the time to write your response, Big Mac. I search for some other Sovereign Stone threads -- sounds interesting.

Regarding Savage Worlds, the system is best at capturing the feel of pulp genres, in my opinion. It has bigger than life heroes who can take out lots of nameless thugs/minions but then have their luck shift to find themselves in dire straits. Mechanically, it's a bit closer to Cortex than it is to d20 systems, but is really its own thing. It's a fun system, in my opinion, and is worth checking out, but that doesn't mean it's a perfect fit for all settings.

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Sun Dec 30, 2018 1:04 pm
by Havard
Big Mac wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 11:55 pm
Yes. But it's DriveThru RPG selling Timeout Diversions products on their behalf. I'm not sure that Tony Lee is doing anything there (except working behind the scenes to make sure he has enough funds to get every book.

The entire point of a Kickstarter is to allow a creator to get products to the market and with a lot of people using DriveThru (and their access to Print on Demand distribution via Lightning Source) for fulfilment, the process of getting the products out to the backers and the process of getting them on sale to non-backers is pretty much the same.

Anyhoo, this new Kickstarter (for Sovereign Stone) is not by Tony Lee (or Timeout Diversions). But I think it will also go to DriveThru RPG, when the products are finished...and sent out to the backers.
Thanks for the clarifications! :)

-Havard

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:50 pm
by Falconer
Yes, most of those adventures go all the way back to the original (proto-Cortex) game and the D20/3.0 setting. I think there was one new one for 3.5, and one new one for PF, so, these are conversions of all the existing scenarios, plus perhaps one new one.

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:29 am
by Big Mac
Tim Baker wrote:
Sun Dec 30, 2018 3:02 am
Regarding Savage Worlds, the system is best at capturing the feel of pulp genres, in my opinion. It has bigger than life heroes who can take out lots of nameless thugs/minions but then have their luck shift to find themselves in dire straits. Mechanically, it's a bit closer to Cortex than it is to d20 systems, but is really its own thing. It's a fun system, in my opinion, and is worth checking out, but that doesn't mean it's a perfect fit for all settings.
I've still not totally picked up on the vibe for Sovereign Stone, so can't even guess at how well it would fit Savage Worlds.

But even if the vibe of the rules changes the vibe of the campaign setting...if people buy this, and have fun playing it, that's good for them.

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:34 am
by Big Mac
Falconer wrote:
Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:50 pm
Yes, most of those adventures go all the way back to the original (proto-Cortex) game and the D20/3.0 setting. I think there was one new one for 3.5, and one new one for PF, so, these are conversions of all the existing scenarios, plus perhaps one new one.
That must be a bit frustrating for a fan like you (who I presume has all the old stuff already), if the new product lines are only adding one or two new things to the setting.

The Savage Worlds Kickstarter definitely seems to have a smaller number of products than the Pathfinder Kickstarter.

I wonder if either of them will be followed up.

Presumably, the arrival of Pathfinder 2.0 is going to mean that Tony Lee would be torn between doing more stuff for Pathfinder 1.0 or rebooting every single one of his existing books, to bring them up to the current Pathfinder standard.

The Savage Worlds Kickstarter seems to be waiting for the newer edition of Savage Worlds, so it won't have that problem.

Re: Savage Worlds Sovereign Stone Kickstarter

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2019 3:57 am
by Tim Baker
Big Mac wrote:
Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:29 am
But even if the vibe of the rules changes the vibe of the campaign setting...if people buy this, and have fun playing it, that's good for them.
This is definitely true.