Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Monte Cook returns to WotC

Post by Princess Strega »

link

Speculation is that he could be on board to advise about 5E, or help create 5E or possibly have a hand in developing a 4E Planescape Campaign Setting.

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

Post by Havard »

Yep, there has already been some discussion of it in this Piazza thread.

Also, Monte Cook is taking over the Legends and Lore Column: http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Article.aspx ... 0920#76573

Monte Cook is a member of the Piazza, so congrats Monte! :cool:

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Twin Agate Dragons wrote:link

Speculation is that he could be on board to advise about 5E, or help create 5E or possibly have a hand in developing a 4E Planescape Campaign Setting.
That's great news. I always loved his master ability to invent mechanics that are so well balanced on top of the vast amount of lore he is responsible for.

On a funny note, I hit my head pretty hard recently and just clicked on your link. Google automatically translated the page to English but you know how that technology can be... Well, I didn't realize it at first so when half of the sentences didn't make sense, I thought I had a little bit of a brain issue going on! Ugh. :oops:
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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

Post by agathokles »

It's an interesting move. I think it is more likely to be 5e related (or at least a move to bring back some pre-4e ideas and mechanics) than to be related with Planescape.

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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It seems to me that its an admission that 4th ed has sort of lost its way; the release schedule we were looking at for this game never really happened, and I should think that it has rather failed to get the sales figures it wanted. Returning to Cook is interesting; whatever he comes up with, I'm sure it'll be worth looking at.

But I'm tired of new editions. I've got classic (boxed sets and RC's, and gazetteers), I've got 1st ed (PHB, DMG, MM, MM2, FF, UA,WSG, DSG, LL, OA, setting harbacks, modules...), I've got 2nd ed, I've got third ed, (goodness knows how many books), I've got the core books for 4th ed and an additional hard back or two... Do I really CARE about a new edition unless its actually very, very, VERY good or in some way compatible with my own gaming as it is now?

The big problem here is that different editions of D&D have become so VERY different, it is really hard to envisage how a new edition, even by Cook, brings things back together. WotC have a very tough sell on their hands.

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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:D

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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+1 to what cab said.
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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Agreed. I would honestly accept 100 editions though if it they were actually compatible.
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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

Post by Chimpman »

I went from OD&D to 3E (skipping 1E and 2E AD&D), so I may be ready for 5E... but only if it's something spectacular. In all honesty I could wait longer, and there is still plenty of Pathfinder material being produced, so I'm not at a loss for new material. Frankly the kind of material (fluff and adventures) coming from Pathfinder is exactly the kind of material I want anyway.
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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

Post by dfryer36 »

If there is going to be a 5E I hope it is a move backward towards the simplicity of OD&D rather than an arms race of increasing complexity.
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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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cab wrote:It seems to me that its an admission that 4th ed has sort of lost its way; the release schedule we were looking at for this game never really happened, and I should think that it has rather failed to get the sales figures it wanted. Returning to Cook is interesting; whatever he comes up with, I'm sure it'll be worth looking at.

But I'm tired of new editions. I've got classic (boxed sets and RC's, and gazetteers), I've got 1st ed (PHB, DMG, MM, MM2, FF, UA,WSG, DSG, LL, OA, setting harbacks, modules...), I've got 2nd ed, I've got third ed, (goodness knows how many books), I've got the core books for 4th ed and an additional hard back or two... Do I really CARE about a new edition unless its actually very, very, VERY good or in some way compatible with my own gaming as it is now?

The big problem here is that different editions of D&D have become so VERY different, it is really hard to envisage how a new edition, even by Cook, brings things back together. WotC have a very tough sell on their hands.
I used to be like you, I've collected a whole shelf full of various editions, and then I realize that most of those just sit there and gather dust, so I gave most away and just use the few I need. What I don't get is why Wizards of the Coast feels it needs to make money by constantly making new editions? I thought 3E was good enough, why do they always have to "reinvent the wheel". I'm not criticising any particular edition, but why is it always "out with the old and in with the new?" It didn't used to be that way, 1st edition was around until the 1990s, and then we had 2nd edition until the year 2000 when 3rd edition was introduced, and on the heels of 3rd edition came 4th edition and now 5th edition. Just as you get used to playing one particular edition they come out with a new edition! I wish they'd employ their game designers in writing more adventures for the existing edition rather than always trying to reinvent the game. Core rules books are big sellers, and then when everybody buys one, the sale of those drop, in which case they start work on a new edition to obsolete the old one so they can keep up sales of their core rulebooks. Under the old way of doing things they'd make their money by writing new adventures rather than create new editions.

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Tom Kalbfus wrote:I used to be like you, I've collected a whole shelf full of various editions, and then I realize that most of those just sit there and gather dust, so I gave most away and just use the few I need. What I don't get is why Wizards of the Coast feels it needs to make money by constantly making new editions? I thought 3E was good enough, why do they always have to "reinvent the wheel". I'm not criticising any particular edition, but why is it always "out with the old and in with the new?" It didn't used to be that way, 1st edition was around until the 1990s, and then we had 2nd edition until the year 2000 when 3rd edition was introduced, and on the heels of 3rd edition came 4th edition and now 5th edition. Just as you get used to playing one particular edition they come out with a new edition! I wish they'd employ their game designers in writing more adventures for the existing edition rather than always trying to reinvent the game. Core rules books are big sellers, and then when everybody buys one, the sale of those drop, in which case they start work on a new edition to obsolete the old one so they can keep up sales of their core rulebooks. Under the old way of doing things they'd make their money by writing new adventures rather than create new editions.
From my understanding of things, the core PHB is the biggest seller. By about two orders of magnitude, or more. Aka, a PHB will sell somewhere around 2 or 3 million in the first six months, and then tail off. By comparison, an adventure might sell 50,000 copies, at best. So all of the revenue is front-loaded to the first year of a new edition. 4e attempted to even out the revenue by introducing a new PHB every year, but I don't think that panned out the way they hoped.
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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

Post by cab »

Tom Kalbfus wrote: What I don't get is why Wizards of the Coast feels it needs to make money by constantly making new editions?
Because its the only viable business model for RPG's. Its hard to think of any genuinely profitable RPG that hasn't had to do this to remain profitable.

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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cab wrote:
Tom Kalbfus wrote: What I don't get is why Wizards of the Coast feels it needs to make money by constantly making new editions?
Because its the only viable business model for RPG's. Its hard to think of any genuinely profitable RPG that hasn't had to do this to remain profitable.
It would of course depend on how you define profitable, but even with a number of editions GURPS and various Chaosium games seems to have kept pretty near to the earliest versions. D&D is by now more of a brand than a game system in my opinion, with versions too separate to be inter-usable, but that is probably one of the main reasons for its continuing success. The name and many of the tropes are easily recognisable, but a whole set of new rules is needed to continue to follow the published products.

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Monte's first Legends and Lore column is out. I wonder if this might be the first glimpse of the rumored 5E.
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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Jorkens wrote:It would of course depend on how you define profitable, but even with a number of editions GURPS and various Chaosium games seems to have kept pretty near to the earliest versions. D&D is by now more of a brand than a game system in my opinion, with versions too separate to be inter-usable, but that is probably one of the main reasons for its continuing success. The name and many of the tropes are easily recognisable, but a whole set of new rules is needed to continue to follow the published products.
To be honest, the versions of D&D are not really that different from eachother. 3E looks very different from previous editions on the surface, but in the end it is mroe similar than people would think. I am wondering about 4E too, if we look into it, could be converted into a more recognizable form...

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Havard wrote:
Jorkens wrote:It would of course depend on how you define profitable, but even with a number of editions GURPS and various Chaosium games seems to have kept pretty near to the earliest versions. D&D is by now more of a brand than a game system in my opinion, with versions too separate to be inter-usable, but that is probably one of the main reasons for its continuing success. The name and many of the tropes are easily recognisable, but a whole set of new rules is needed to continue to follow the published products.
To be honest, the versions of D&D are not really that different from eachother. 3E looks very different from previous editions on the surface, but in the end it is mroe similar than people would think. I am wondering about 4E too, if we look into it, could be converted into a more recognizable form...

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OD&D when first published
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OD&D with the supplements and Dragon articles
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AD&D 1e when first published
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AD&D with Unearthed Arcana
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AD&D 2e when first published
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AD&D 2e with the various "splat books"
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AD&D 2e with Player Options: Combat & Tactics
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D&D 3.0 when first published
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D&D 3.5 with Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords
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D&D 4e when first published
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D&D 4e with Essentials

Each of those is actually fairly similar to the ones either side of it, but if you take any two at random they might look quite different to each other; and if you take them from far enough apart they can barely look like the same game.
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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

Post by Havard »

Blacky the Blackball wrote:Each of those is actually fairly similar to the ones either side of it, but if you take any two at random they might look quite different to each other; and if you take them from far enough apart they can barely look like the same game.
Interesting comparison! I believe this is fairly accurate.

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Havard wrote:
Jorkens wrote:It would of course depend on how you define profitable, but even with a number of editions GURPS and various Chaosium games seems to have kept pretty near to the earliest versions. D&D is by now more of a brand than a game system in my opinion, with versions too separate to be inter-usable, but that is probably one of the main reasons for its continuing success. The name and many of the tropes are easily recognisable, but a whole set of new rules is needed to continue to follow the published products.
To be honest, the versions of D&D are not really that different from eachother. 3E looks very different from previous editions on the surface, but in the end it is mroe similar than people would think. I am wondering about 4E too, if we look into it, could be converted into a more recognizable form...

-Havard
There are probably a lot of parallels and likenesses that are more obvious as you get to know the system, but when I read WotC books two thirds of it is foreign language to me. I would think a person using the 3ed. and not familiar with a TSR edition would find a product from that age sorely lacking also. I have never had that problem with any of the older editions/versions and my personal idea of an edition is that you can pick up a supplement and use most of the material. For me the level and alignment in a 3ed. book is a hint, but the rest of an enormous statblock is more or less useless, the same goes for much of the information on spells, magic items etc. Of course its usable, but so is a Runequest or Rolemaster product with the same amount of work and adoption.

I still think D20 Dungeons and Dragons would have been a better name than 3ed. and would have led to less grumbling among the more conservative fans, but that is of course guessing from hindsight.

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Jorkens wrote:There are probably a lot of parallels and likenesses that are more obvious as you get to know the system, but when I read WotC books two thirds of it is foreign language to me. I would think a person using the 3ed. and not familiar with a TSR edition would find a product from that age sorely lacking also. I have never had that problem with any of the older editions/versions and my personal idea of an edition is that you can pick up a supplement and use most of the material. For me the level and alignment in a 3ed. book is a hint, but the rest of an enormous statblock is more or less useless, the same goes for much of the information on spells, magic items etc. Of course its usable, but so is a Runequest or Rolemaster product with the same amount of work and adoption.
True. There was a significant change of the language used in the transition from 2nd to 3rd Edition and beyond. But IMO many of these changes are just on the surface level. While BAB makes no sense to the older edition fans and ThAC0 could seem equally meaningless to fans of 3E/4E, it should not take long to realize they are one and the same.

If using material from RQ/RM seems easier to you, I suggest that this is only because you are more familiar with those systems. For someone who is familiar with both those and 3E/4E, using the latter would require less work.
I still think D20 Dungeons and Dragons would have been a better name than 3ed. and would have led to less grumbling among the more conservative fans, but that is of course guessing from hindsight.
I doubt it would have had any effect. There has never been more grubling by grognards than when 2nd Ed was released, and those guys didnt even have the Internet as an outlet. :D



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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Havard wrote:
Jorkens wrote:There are probably a lot of parallels and likenesses that are more obvious as you get to know the system, but when I read WotC books two thirds of it is foreign language to me. I would think a person using the 3ed. and not familiar with a TSR edition would find a product from that age sorely lacking also. I have never had that problem with any of the older editions/versions and my personal idea of an edition is that you can pick up a supplement and use most of the material. For me the level and alignment in a 3ed. book is a hint, but the rest of an enormous statblock is more or less useless, the same goes for much of the information on spells, magic items etc. Of course its usable, but so is a Runequest or Rolemaster product with the same amount of work and adoption.
True. There was a significant change of the language used in the transition from 2nd to 3rd Edition and beyond. But IMO many of these changes are just on the surface level. While BAB makes no sense to the older edition fans and ThAC0 could seem equally meaningless to fans of 3E/4E, it should not take long to realize they are one and the same.

If using material from RQ/RM seems easier to you, I suggest that this is only because you are more familiar with those systems. For someone who is familiar with both those and 3E/4E, using the latter would require less work.
I still think D20 Dungeons and Dragons would have been a better name than 3ed. and would have led to less grumbling among the more conservative fans, but that is of course guessing from hindsight.
I doubt it would have had any effect. There has never been more grubling by grognards than when 2nd Ed was released, and those guys didnt even have the Internet as an outlet. :D



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Yea, I was probably a bit optimistic where the name was concerned.

And as it seems like I am derailing the thread I will stop after this post, I promise.

I absolutely agree about the familiarity being the decisive factor, but all of these games have a few factors in common (and some relationship with the D&D system in the first place, albeit loose)that makes it rather easier to convert if you know them separately. How would it be for someone coming from Shadowrun, TORG, Star Wars or something like that? Would it then be that obvious to see the likenesses? Where could one put the line between games and editions (if at all); wouldn't it be almost as easy to draw lines from 3ed to Rolemaster as to TSR D&D? I am asking mainly out of curiosity as you have far greater knowledge of the different systems than me (and I was never that good at remembering more than the most basic rules in the first place), not to make this a long debate I should add.

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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Twin Agate Dragons wrote:link

Speculation is that he could be on board to advise about 5E, or help create 5E or possibly have a hand in developing a 4E Planescape Campaign Setting.
Congratulations to Monte.

I've got to say that the 5th Edition speculation is pure tinfoil hat logic. :P

Monte could just as well be there to help make Essentials be more appealing to customers who like 3e and earler rules. Or he could also be there to help make the 4e Planescape Campaign Guide.

I think that if Wizards of the Coast change a light bulb, somebody out here on the Internets is going to hail that as evidence that 5e is on the way! :lol:
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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Big Mac wrote:
I think that if Wizards of the Coast change a light bulb, somebody out here on the Internets is going to hail that as evidence that 5e is on the way! :lol:
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Re: Monte Cook returns to WotC

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Big Mac wrote:I think that if Wizards of the Coast change a light bulb, somebody out here on the Internets is going to hail that as evidence that 5e is on the way! :lol:
Please. Its evidence WotC is working on SIXTH edition. Sheez.
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