[SJ3e] Converting Ptah

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[SJ3e] Converting Ptah

Post by Big Mac » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:44 am

This thread is a conversion thread dedicated to converting one of the elements of Spelljammer to 3rd edition. In this case it is the go Ptah.

This thread is dedicated to creating new content for the SPELLJAMMER for D&D 3e section of Beyond the Moons. Eventually we hope to turn this information into a series of 3rd edition PDFs for Spelljammer (or maybe eventually one large SJCS PDF). Posting in this thread will be taken as giving consent for your posts being used for any purpose by Beyond the Moons. If, for some reason, you do not want your work to be used by Beyond the Moons, please do not write in this thread. (If you write in this thread but say you do not want your work to be used, I will ask a moderator to delete your posts.) If you wish your work to be correctly credited to you, please ensure you have your name in your forum signature.

(As you can see, I've given the thread a formalised title. The "[SJ3e]" is to let people know this is part of the 3rd edition project. The word "Converting" is to let people know this is a thread for converting (rather than discussing) a subject. Eventually we will have a [SJ3e] FAQ thread and this sort of explanation will go into there. This is a "proof of concept" thread. If this is successful, we will be requesting a SJ3e project space and any threads will be moved over to that project. If that is done we won't need to put the [SJ3e] tag onto things unless people want to have a discussion about the project in the main Spelljammer thread.)

Here is how these conversion threads are going to work. We are going to copy the pattern of the Creature Catalogue at ENWorld.

1) I'm going to start a thread (so that I have the rights to edit the first post).
2) Then we will make a list of things we are going to convert - this would normally be a broader subjects like "[SJ3e] Converting Deities of Spelljammer" or "[SJ3e] Converting Spells of AD&D Adventures in Space", but this thread is testing the concept, so we will stick with the one thing.
3) Normally, we will then go through the list one thing at a time. Anyone can request something specific, but like the guys in the Creature Catalogue threads I'll pick out of the suggestions (or we can just go top to bottom if nobody has a special preference). However, this is a single item thread, so we don't need to do that this time.
4) Then we are going to look for the original source material we are converting and quote the important bit here. If the thing has different sources we will quote them all.
5) Once we have that done, we will go through the 2nd edition text one thing at a time and suggest possible 3.X/3.0/3.5 rules. We are going to concentrate on 3.5, but if things can be 3.0 friendly that is great with me.
6) The final conversion will not normally be posted in the thread where we do the conversion work (as it will get burried). Instead it will be shunted over to a specific post in a thread reserved to completed conversions. (This will help people who want to do playtesting read through those threads to quickly find completed conversions.)
7) Eventually a section will be finished and the work will be compiled and submitted to Beyond the Moons.

For this thread, and this thread only, the completed conversion will be moved to post number 3 (with post number 2 being used for quoting the original material). Normally we will be posting different source material (or extracts) as we go along.

List of Ptah:
  • Ptah
(Normally this will be a list of several things. As we go through the list I will edit the list and remove the things as they get done. It looks a bit strange here, but I've put the list here to show you what we will be doing. The Creature Catalogue people remove things from the list when they are done, but SJ is a much smaller subject, so it might be better to leave them all on the list and make the text hyperlinks to the place where the finished content can be seen.)
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Re: [SJ3e] Converting Ptah - 2e stats

Post by Big Mac » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:45 am

Ptah (lesser god)
Where Thoth is the god of knowledge and science, Ptah is often viewed as the god of artists and designers. While the two gods have much in common (neither of them is related to any of the other gods, for instance), there are important differences. An architect planning a pyramid depends on Thoth for the mathematics to build it and calls upon Ptah for the inspiration that will make it a work of art.
In his true form, Ptah appears as a shaven-headed man with jet black skin. In his eyes is the fire of creativity that is the inspiration of all artists. Just as Thoth’s priests claim that he created the universe, so, too, do Ptah’s priests exert their claim to the founding waters.
Role-playing Notes: Ptah is a clever and dynamic god with a great love of art and beauty. He smiles upon craftsmen who produce works of great quality and will sometimes (5%) send his avatar to assure that such persons receive the recognition they deserve.
Statistics: AL ln; WAL any; AoC artists, artisans, craftsmen, and travelers; SY mummified hand.

Ptah’s Avatar (priest 20)
When Ptah sends his avatar into the world, it normally takes the shape of a powerfully built man with jet black skin and fire burning in his eyes. He can call upon any sphere for his spells.

Code: Select all

Str 15	Dex 20	Con 15
Int 25	Wis 25	Cha 18
MV 15	SZ 7’	MR 25%
AC -3	HD 15	HP 175
#AT 1	THAC0 8	Dmg nil (see below)
Special Att/Def: Ptah’s avatar can plane shift any individual to any other plane of existence with but a touch of his hand. While he must make an attack roll to strike his target, the victim is not entitled to a saving throw. Ptah’s avatar is immune to all damage not caused by spells or magical weapons of +2 or better.

Duties of the Priesthood
Priests of Ptah are expected to be artists and scholars. As such, they must always take the artistic ability non-weapon proficiency. Individual Dungeon Masters may allow players to substitute skills like dancing or pottery for this slot if the character is clearly an artist and not just “another potter”. In the eyes of many of his faithful, Ptah is considered to be the creator of the universe.
Requirements: AB standard plus Int of 16; AL any; WP any; AR a; SP all, astral, charm, creation, divination, elemental, summoning, sun; PW 1) 5% magic resistance per level; 5) teleport; 10) teleport without error; 15) plane shift; TU nil.

Originally appeared in Legends and Lore (1990).

Multi-Sphere Churches (sidebar) (extract)

PTAH: This Egyptian god is one of the few Powers to dwell in the ethereal plane, and as a result of this, plus his background (he is venerated as a "creator" of the universe, an opener of doors, a god of travellers and of inventors), he is known in practically every major sphere in the universe. His faith exists only in space, and on those worlds where the Egyptian mythos is fully recognised. On planets where this is not the case, his clerics are as limited as those of other faiths are in wildspace or in strange new spheres.

Originally appeared in Concordance of Arcane Space (1989)

Life in Space - Humans - Faith (extract)
Followers of Ptah tend to be a little more pressing. In their grey robes trimmed with scarlet, they are found througout the SPELLJAMMER® universe preaching the superiority of their god. Despite the fact that Ptah originates from an "Egyptian" mythos, most of its followers in space are spaceborn and tend to look down on groundlings as well. They are fanatical in their zeal to convert people to the way of Ptah, and us as an argument that his clerical spells work in all the spheres. Ptah priests tend to equate Ptah with whatever ruling god they happen to encounter to show that Ptah is the true ruler of the pantheon. Odin is considered by them to be an avatar or disguse of Ptah, as are Zeus and Ao. This is usually news (and disturbing news at that) to local followers of these gods, such that Ptah worshippers are not well loved.

Originally appeared in Lorebook of the Void (1989).

The Temple of Ptah (extract)
The priests of Ptah are among the most forceful proponents of religion in the Known Spheres. In their grey robes trimmed with scarlet, they are found througout the SPELLJAMMER® universe preaching the superiority of their god.
Symbol: The spacefaring priests of Ptah use the traditional symbol of a mumified hand.
Headquarters: The priest of Ptah claim their god created all of the crystal spheres, therefore they have chosen no one spot as a supreme headquarters.
Purpose: In spheres where the Egyptian pantheon is worshipped, Ptah is revererd as the god of artisians. However, most spelljamming priests are spaceborn and look down on their groundling cousins as having lost sight of Ptah's true glory as the creator of the universe.
Priests of Ptah are fanatical in their zeal to convert people to the way of Ptah. They use the fact that they can recieve clerical spells in all spheres to prove the superiority of Ptah over other gods. Others, more cynically point out that as the priesthood of Ptah has been in space for a long time, they have simply been able to establish bodies of worshippers in all of the spheres, which allows them the same access as followers as any other god.
Ptah priests tend to equate Ptah with whatever ruling god they happen to encounter to show that Ptah is the true ruler of the pantheon. In Realmspace, for example, the priests of Ptah proclaim Ao, the high god of the pantheon of the Realms, as an avatar of their god, and in Krynnspace Ptah is known (according to his priests) as Paladine.
These proclamations are usually disturbing news to the followers of these gods within their spheres. Thus while the worshippers of Ptah are pandemic, they are not popular with the established local churches in any of the spheres.

Originally appeared in The Complete Spacefarer's Handbook (1992).
Last edited by Big Mac on Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: [SJ3e] Converting Ptah - 3e stats

Post by Big Mac » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:45 am

Ptah

Lesser Deity

Symbol: A mumified hand
Home Plane: Ethereal Plane
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Portfolio: artists, craftsmen, inventors, travelers and the universe*
Clerical Alignments: Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral or Lawful Evil
Domains: Creation, Law, Travel, XXXX, XXXX
Favored Weapon: XXXX

* = Creation of the universe is seen as the most important part of Ptah's portfolio by his spacefaring clerics. His groundling clerics usually focus on the artistic part of the pantheon.

Description

XXX description to be inserted here XXX

Dogma

XXX dogma of the Church of Ptah to be inserted here XXX

Clerics and Temples

XXX clerics and temples of the Church of Ptah to be inserted here XXX

Relationships

XXX Relationships with other deities to be inserted here XXX

Originally appeared in Concordance of Arcane Space (1989), Lorebook of the Void (1989), Legends and Lore (1990) and The Complete Spacefarer's Handbook (1992).

NOTE: THIS POST USED FOR ONGOING 3E CONVERSION - CHECK BACK FOR EDITS
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Re: [SJ3e] Converting Ptah

Post by Big Mac » Wed Jun 25, 2008 10:54 am

I know that Ptah is in Legends and Lore. I've just checked The Complete Spacefarers Handbook and can't see anything but "fluff". Concordance of Arcane Space doesn't have anything specific either.

What we need is the specific rules for priests, so that we can create rules for 3rd edition clerics.
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Re: [SJ3e] Converting Ptah

Post by Big Mac » Wed Jun 25, 2008 12:09 pm

I think I'll start the ball rolling by saying that I don't think we need to bother with actual avatars of deities. We can use them to help us work out things like clerical domains, but PC clerics don't need avatars to work.

I also think we should stick with SRD clerical domains and the additional domains from the divine rules and not use anything from non-open game content sources (like FRCS).

(If people really think we need a new domain, we could build a new one up, but it is a lot of extra work and would require additional playtesting.)
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Re: [SJ3e] Converting Ptah

Post by Big Mac » Sat Jun 28, 2008 4:21 pm

I've added the main text from CoAS, LotV and TCSH above, so that anyone intersted can review it. (The missing stuff from TCSH is mainly to do with the politics of the church, so I don't think we need it for a conversion. However I can add it back in if required.)

I think we are going to get a lot more out of Legends and Lore, but there are a few clues to spell access inside the SJ stuff.
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Re: [SJ3e] Converting Ptah

Post by Big Mac » Wed Oct 01, 2008 2:08 pm

MODERATOR NOTE: This topic will be moved to the Spelljammer 3E Conversion Project forum tonight.
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Re: [SJ3e] Converting Ptah

Post by dulsi » Wed Oct 01, 2008 3:02 pm

Kulan: The Lands of Harqual use the following domains for Ptah: Art, Creation, Knowledge, Law, Stellar, and Travel. (I haven't looked to see if Art and Stellar are new domains the author created or found in another supplement.)

Shadowfoot: Domains has some new domains for Ptah. I haven't looked at how well balanced they are.

This egyptian pantheon conversion suggests the domains: Good, Luck, Protection, Travel.

There was also a new domain discussion on the SJML. Here is the first post.

I'd like to make the distinction between groundling priests and wildspace priests. Perhaps groundling has Artifice instead of Creation or maybe Knowledge and/or Travel is substituted to something else.
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Re: [SJ3e] Converting Ptah

Post by Bidmaron » Fri Oct 03, 2008 1:33 am

dulsi wrote:Kulan: The Lands of Harqual use the following domains for Ptah: Art, Creation, Knowledge, Law, Stellar, and Travel. (I haven't looked to see if Art and Stellar are new domains the author created or found in another supplement.)

Shadowfoot: Domains has some new domains for Ptah. I haven't looked at how well balanced they are.
I agree with Big Mac that we should stick with WotC domains.
This egyptian pantheon conversion suggests the domains: Good, Luck, Protection, Travel.
This sounds like a good place to start.
There was also a new domain discussion on the SJML. Here is the first post.
I think we should, however, create a Wildspace domain to fit the mood of the setting. The problem is that we have to do conversions of all the spells. Or are we going to use the existing conversions?
I'd like to make the distinction between groundling priests and wildspace priests. Perhaps groundling has Artifice instead of Creation or maybe Knowledge and/or Travel is substituted to something else.
[/quote]
This too sounds like a good idea. But, again, let's stick with WotC domains.
Last edited by Big Mac on Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Broken quote tag fixed by Big Mac

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Re: [SJ3e] Converting Ptah

Post by Big Mac » Thu Oct 09, 2008 1:15 am

Bidmaron wrote:
dulsi wrote:Kulan: The Lands of Harqual use the following domains for Ptah: Art, Creation, Knowledge, Law, Stellar, and Travel. (I haven't looked to see if Art and Stellar are new domains the author created or found in another supplement.)

Shadowfoot: Domains has some new domains for Ptah. I haven't looked at how well balanced they are.
I agree with Big Mac that we should stick with WotC domains.
To be more specific, I suggested we stick with SRD domains. Domains, like the ones from Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting are a dodgy area. Things like FRCS are not Open Game Content. A conversion might be able to only use the name of the domain (but perhaps not list the spells) but that might stop a god conversion working for anyone who do not have that product.

If we made a conversion that had just 1 SRD domain and added 5 domains that people might or might not have access to, that would cripple the conversion for the people who don't have that book. However, if we made a conversion with 5 SRD domains and then added 1 domain that people might or might not have access to, that would not cripple the conversion for anyone who didn't have that one domain.
Bidmaron wrote:
dulsi wrote: This egyptian pantheon conversion suggests the domains: Good, Luck, Protection, Travel.
This sounds like a good place to start.
It does sound fairly good. Ptah is Lawful Neutral, so by the rules he definatly gets the Law domain. (The same rule applies to all deities with Chaotic, Good or Evil in their alignment.)
Bidmaron wrote:
dulsi wrote: There was also a new domain discussion on the SJML. Here is the first post.
I think we should, however, create a Wildspace domain to fit the mood of the setting. The problem is that we have to do conversions of all the spells. Or are we going to use the existing conversions?
I've never been to keen on the name "Wildspace" domain, as that domain used to have powers that related to the Phlogiston. Space would be a bit better.

One problem with the first writeup I saw of the Wildspace domain, was that someone put spells into that, but didn't also put them down as general clerical spells. (This actually prevents anyone who doesn't have that domain from casting the spell.) We need all of the SJ priest spells to be Clr spells.

The aim of this is to get the conversion up onto Beyond the Moons. So if Beyond the Moons has a spell that is good to go, we can use it. If there is no spell, or if we think the spell is broken, we can do a conversion ourselves. We actually did a bunch of conversion comparison on the SJML about 1 to 2 years back. So I'll try to find all those posts and index them. (I'm inclined to avoid doing any conversions of spells related to ships, until we argue out the ship system.)

I too, like the idea of creating some new domains. However, I would be inclined to get the first draft of deities done without additional domains, then create any new domains, and then come back and make a second pass and insert in the new domains (if appropriate).
Bidmaron wrote:
dulsi wrote:I'd like to make the distinction between groundling priests and wildspace priests. Perhaps groundling has Artifice instead of Creation or maybe Knowledge and/or Travel is substituted to something else.
This too sounds like a good idea. But, again, let's stick with WotC domains.
This certainly might help with sorting out the Celestians (as they are a GH religion, a SJ religion and a PS religion). There is already a GH conversion for Living Greyhawk and that may not work perfectly for SJ or PS.

Having spacefaring clerics of Ptah have different domain options to groundling clerics of Ptah would make sense as long as each type of cleric retained their domains in the environment of the other type of cleric.

The thing that would be most useful (from a SJ point of view) would be to rewrite the deity description from the point of view of the SJ campaign setting. FRCS includes Tyr and Oghma (as well as the Mulhorandi Pantheon) so there is precident for including "foreign" dieties with "local" descriptions.

Anyway, I'll try to go through my notes and post my initial conversion at the weekend.
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Re: [SJ3e] Converting Ptah

Post by Bidmaron » Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:27 am

One last try on the Wildspace domain. I think Wildspace as typically used in SJ does not normally include the Flow. It usually connotes only inside the Crystal Sphere space. 'Space' is not a fantasy term and is generally not used in SJ other than when in the context of speaking to 20th century players. I'm not sure what Wildspace domain you're referring to that included Flow spells. I think that Wildspace-oriented deities (such as Ptah and Celestian, although I know they have groundling corollaries) should have a unique Wildspace domain associated with them to give them an SJ 'feel'. Although we should redo their write-up to be more SJ-appropriate, I think most of their domains, except Wildspace, should convert straight over.

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Re: [SJ3e] Converting Ptah

Post by Big Mac » Fri Oct 10, 2008 4:27 am

Bidmaron wrote:I'm not sure what Wildspace domain you're referring to that included Flow spells.
The Wildspace Domain from Shattered Fractine.

Wildspace Prestige Domain:
Shattered Fractine wrote:1 Locate Portal. Locate a portal within 2-20 days travel
2 Chill Fire. Reduces the flaming nature of the phlogiston for 10 minutes /level
3 Enhance Tactical Speed (TS) Rating. Will raise the ship TS rating of the spell jamming ship by 1-2 points.
4 Enhanced Maneuverability Class (MC). Will raise the ship MC rating of the spell jamming ship by one.
5 Create Portal. Causes a large area of the crystal shell to become temporarily insubstantial and ethereal, allowing a ships to pass through.
6 Create Minor Helm. Spellcaster can transform a normal chair or seat into a minor spelljammer helm
7 Star Mantle. Creates an effect that resembles a cloak of tiny cascading stars that transforms any nonmagical weapon or missile that strikes it into harmless light, destroying it forever.
8 Aurora. Creates an immobile, 1 to 7-ft. radius by 7-ft high column of scintillating light surrounds any one creature(s).
9 Mantle of Heaven. As star mantle but effect 1 creature per level of spellcaster.
As you can see the Chill Fire spell is a Phlogiston only spell. I'm not sure what Wildspace Domain you saw that didn't include Chill Fire. We spoke about this for a while on the SJML and people were proposing replacement spells.

As for the name, this could be a "Spelljamming" domain from what it has in it. It is basically most of the ship related SJ spells bundled together with a couple of new ones. And the granted power (which I didn't quote) is a TR boost when on the helm.

I think that perhaps the Wildspace Domain should be split off from this thread and made into a new topic.
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Re: [SJ3e] Converting Ptah

Post by Big Mac » Mon Nov 10, 2008 1:17 am

Bidmaron wrote:
dulsi wrote:This egyptian pantheon conversion suggests the domains: Good, Luck, Protection, Travel.
This sounds like a good place to start.
OK. I've taken a first pass on the conversion, which you can see in the third post of this thread.

I haven't used Good, because (as I said earlier) Ptah is Lawful Neutral. Because Ptah is LN, I've been "forced" to give him Law. I've also given him Travel (as it is pretty obvious). Creation from the Divine Rules in the SRD is also obvious. I'm thinking about the other domains at the moment. He needs at least two more
Bidmaron wrote:
dulsi wrote:I'd like to make the distinction between groundling priests and wildspace priests. Perhaps groundling has Artifice instead of Creation or maybe Knowledge and/or Travel is substituted to something else.
This too sounds like a good idea. But, again, let's stick with WotC domains.
Artifice as well as Creation would be better (as their domain powers stack). The Knowledge Domain does feel compatible with the cleric's duty to be a scholar. Adding those two domains would give us five domains which would be enough for PCs to pick from. Although, it doesn't allow for the groundling/spacefarer cleric thing that you were both looking at.
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