When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

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Alzrius
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When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Alzrius » Wed Aug 20, 2014 7:05 pm

I read City Under the Sand - the first 4E Dark Sun novel - a little while ago, and was surprised by the numerous references to the templars of Nibenay being partially or completely nude as part of their official mode of dress (or lack thereof).

I don't remember this from earlier novels (e.g. Simon Hawke's Nomad), so I asked around. One person opined that the nudity of Nibenese templars was established in 2E, possibly in The Ivory Triangle boxed set. I've since picked that boxed set up (yay Gen Con!) but on a quick read-through of the Nibenay booklet, I still don't see anything about Nibenay's templars going around unclad.

Did 4E invent the idea of Nibenay being the city-state of naked lady templars, or is this something from the setting's original incarnation?

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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Lord Torath » Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:27 am

In the Ivory Triangle Boxed set, Page 6 of the Nibenay book (continuation of "Dress" from p5). Also page 26 under "Dress".

The highest ranking templars (and heads of noble families, as well) go naked. Mid-level templars wear black skirts, and low level go fully clothed in black. Those on combat alert wear full armor. Well, what passes for full armor on Athas, anyway.

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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Silverblade-T-E » Sat Aug 23, 2014 12:56 pm

think it's even in the original box set it tells you that? :)

hence this is my vision of a Nibenay Templar, for once "Naked Vicky In A Temple With A Sword" is *RIGHT* and totally appropriate for the milieu ;)
(NVIATWAS is joke in 3D stuff about preponderance of a specific CGI character used to to make naked fantasy shots of often poor quality :P)

note higher the rank etc, less clothing, so as gate guard (lower rank and more combative) she has some clothing

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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Alzrius » Mon Aug 25, 2014 2:45 pm

In the Ivory Triangle Boxed set, Page 6 of the Nibenay book (continuation of "Dress" from p5). Also page 26 under "Dress".
Thanks for that! That's what I get for just skimming the booklet instead of sitting down to give it a proper read-through, it seems. :oops:
think it's even in the original box set it tells you that? :)
Well, I had the revised boxed set; which according to my fellow fans makes me some sort of poseur where Dark Sun is concerned. :P

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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Lord Torath » Mon Aug 25, 2014 7:17 pm

Silverblade-T-E wrote:think it's even in the original box set it tells you that? :)
If it's in the original boxed set, I can't find it. It would almost certainly be in The Wanderer's Journal. I can't find any mention of templar dress (or lack thereof) under the section on Nibenay, or the earlier general section on Templars.
Silverblade-T-E wrote:http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/ch ... r_city.jpg
Nice job on the templar. I really like the glowing effect on her flail. But shouldn't her armor/clothing be black? ;)
Alzrius wrote:Well, I had the revised boxed set; which according to my fellow fans makes me some sort of poseur where Dark Sun is concerned. :P
That's right, poser! Take off! And don't come back until you've got the original boxed set! ;)

Seriously, though, the original Dark Sun set is pretty sweet, and has a lot of great setting information. If you have the means, I highly recommend picking one up. The cover art is gorgeous (although the interior art, other than a few Brom pieces, leaves a lot to be desired). And the map of the Tablelands is a joy to look at (even if it's not as cool - and durable - as the cloth map from the revised set).

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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by TBeholder » Thu Aug 28, 2014 1:41 am

Alzrius wrote: and was surprised by the numerous references to the templars of Nibenay being partially or completely nude as part of their official mode of dress (or lack thereof).
I, also, am surprised. This needs numerous references? It's not exactly Dune to have full stillsuits.
Silverblade-T-E wrote:hence this is my vision of a Nibenay Templar, for once "Naked Vicky In A Temple With A Sword" is *RIGHT* and totally appropriate for the milieu ;)
[...]
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/ch ... r_city.jpg
Not really. See, it's not "naked" part that was stupid in the first place, given all that weather... It's the other one. Specifically, "chromed motorcycle panels hammered right onto iron boobs".
Also, it's not a sword. :lol:
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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Silverblade-T-E » Sun Oct 12, 2014 7:29 pm

lol that damn "naked Vicky in temple with stupid big sword" stuff...yeesh :P
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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Jayce » Tue Sep 29, 2015 9:12 am

Lord Torath wrote: (although the interior art, other than a few Brom pieces, leaves a lot to be desired). And the map of the Tablelands is a joy to look at (even if it's not as cool - and durable - as the cloth map from the revised set).
Hey, I like those Baxa pieces! Not quite as phenomenal as Brom's work, but I still think they really suit the setting.

But yeah, Nibenay is a creepy old pervert. Not only does his templar corps basically consist of his naked concubines, but his personal favorite is massively underage as well. :roll:

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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Big Mac » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:19 am

Alzrius wrote:I read City Under the Sand - the first 4E Dark Sun novel - a little while ago, and was surprised by the numerous references to the templars of Nibenay being partially or completely nude as part of their official mode of dress (or lack thereof).

I don't remember this from earlier novels (e.g. Simon Hawke's Nomad), so I asked around. One person opined that the nudity of Nibenese templars was established in 2E, possibly in The Ivory Triangle boxed set. I've since picked that boxed set up (yay Gen Con!) but on a quick read-through of the Nibenay booklet, I still don't see anything about Nibenay's templars going around unclad.

Did 4E invent the idea of Nibenay being the city-state of naked lady templars, or is this something from the setting's original incarnation?
I have only read the Prism Pentad novels (and not the full range of Dark Sun novels yet), but I think that one of those books mentioned nekkid Nibernay templers.

However, I would like to see your question answered...from an in-character point of view. There has been some historical information about Dark Sun. Perhaps there was a time in the past, when the templers were not naked.
Jayce wrote:But yeah, Nibenay is a creepy old pervert. Not only does his templar corps basically consist of his naked concubines, but his personal favorite is massively underage as well. :roll:
I have to say that this is an element of Dark Sun that I thought was a bit stupid. :roll:
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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Jayce » Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:52 pm

Big Mac wrote: I have to say that this is an element of Dark Sun that I thought was a bit stupid. :roll:
Agreed. And more than a little creepy.

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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Lord Torath » Mon Oct 05, 2015 1:27 am

I always assumed they were his wives in a legal sense, but not in a conjugal relationship sense. I figured there was nothing going on in the bedroom. At level 23, he barely resembles a human anymore. And his 14-year-old "wife" was selected for her wild talent of calming animals (so he can hopefully retain his faculties when he hits level 25), rather than for any prurient interest on his part.

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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Alzrius » Sun Oct 18, 2015 3:09 am

Lord Torath wrote:I always assumed they were his wives in a legal sense, but not in a conjugal relationship sense. I figured there was nothing going on in the bedroom. At level 23, he barely resembles a human anymore.
Level 24, as of Beyond the Prism Pentad.
And his 14-year-old "wife" was selected for her wild talent of calming animals (so he can hopefully retain his faculties when he hits level 25), rather than for any prurient interest on his part.
Isn't it intimated that Siemhouk is also his daughter, since her mother was a templar herself?

Also, the novel The Broken Blade (if I recall correctly) does confirm that, other than their wedding night, Nibenay loses interest in his wives in that regard.

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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by The Dark » Mon Nov 09, 2015 1:39 am

In a possible example of "our canon bible forgot to cover this," the templars of Nibenay are noted only as dressing entirely in black on page 54 of Earth, Air, Fire, and Water, with armor made from black chitin and barbed spears of agafari wood. It doesn't list the full dress code from Ivory Triangle. The "king's wives" thing is also presented as a rumor ("Some have said..."), rather than a fact.

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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Jayce » Thu Nov 12, 2015 11:00 pm

Lord Torath wrote:I always assumed they were his wives in a legal sense, but not in a conjugal relationship sense. I figured there was nothing going on in the bedroom. At level 23, he barely resembles a human anymore. And his 14-year-old "wife" was selected for her wild talent of calming animals (so he can hopefully retain his faculties when he hits level 25), rather than for any prurient interest on his part.
I don't know, the whole "harem full of naked servants bound to me in marriage" setup at the very least seems to imply that it was designed with more in mind than just that. :P And I don't know whether his bestial nature would change anything about that, but even if it did, that would't change the original purpose behind the design of his templar corps, which we can be almost certain predates his status as a 23rd level dragon.
Alzrius wrote: Isn't it intimated that Siemhouk is also his daughter, since her mother was a templar herself?

Also, the novel The Broken Blade (if I recall correctly) does confirm that, other than their wedding night, Nibenay loses interest in his wives in that regard.
I'd say the fact that she is his daughter by itself sorta give away that there's stuff going on in the bedroom :P

To be fair though, the whole situation would probably feel less creepy if TSR's stuff wasn't so whitewashed in general. This really makes the Nibenay situation stand out. If Dark Sun had been a setting designed by Robert E. Howard, it would have been filled with harems, prostitution etc. (and I believe most historians would agree with me that, seeing as Athasian societies are utterly dominated by slavery, this wouldn't be an unrealistic approach - without exception, history has shown that slavery leads to sexual exploitation). But because Lorraine Williams-era TSR was so incredibly whitewashed in that regard, the Nibenay situation feels more out of place than it would otherwise, I guess.

Just my 2 ceramics.

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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by Sturm » Fri Nov 13, 2015 9:48 am

I suppose many people (myself included for the little I played DS) used a more Howard-like or Burroghs-like (Barsoom) feeling in play even if it was not very explicit in TSR products :)

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Re: When did Nibenese templars start going naked?

Post by night_druid » Fri Nov 13, 2015 10:48 am

To be fair, Darksun cover art almost always depicted everybody in not much more than a loincloth and (for females) a bra. Nudity probably isn't unheard of on Athas. I don't get the impression that the people of Athas have extensive wardrobes. Or even a change of clothes. ;)
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