Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

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Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby Zeromaru X » Fri Mar 25, 2016 1:48 pm

I'm planning to play a Dark Sun campaing (or Dark Sun-like, Mad Max-like flavored; it depends on my players), but I know less than nothing about the timeline of this setting. Any help there is appreciated. And, if possible, can I ask for a timeline that includes 4e events? I know there was a novel (the one from the Abyssal Plague series) and a comic. Just for completionist sake.
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby Sturm » Fri Mar 25, 2016 2:08 pm

This is in the official Dark Sun fansite, The Burnt World of Athas:
http://www.athas.org/events

I know almost nothing of 4ed events, so I'm not sure if it includes them, but I guess it does..

Also in the Dark Sun wiki here:
http://darksun.wikia.com/wiki/Category:History
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby Zeromaru X » Fri Mar 25, 2016 4:36 pm

Well, it seems to been updated to what I remember from the 4e manuals. Seems they rebooted/retconned the history in 4e, so the campaign would to start right after Kalak's overthrow. Seems the Dray (dragonborn) are not mutans, just deemed imperfect, Hammanu is still alive and the like.

Many thanks. I guess with this and a re-reading to the 4e manual, I'll be ready for a take on in the godless world.
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby Big Mac » Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:38 pm

Sturm wrote:This is in the official Dark Sun fansite, The Burnt World of Athas:
http://www.athas.org/events

I know almost nothing of 4ed events, so I'm not sure if it includes them, but I guess it does..


Not according to this text at the top of the page:
http://www.athas.org/events wrote:Given the setting reset in the Dark Sun 4, it's possible that all or none of these events have actually occured.


Sturm wrote:Also in the Dark Sun wiki here:
http://darksun.wikia.com/wiki/Category:History


The only edit in the history of that page is "18:31, 8 April 2010‎".

That's the same year that 4e came out, but the 4e book didn't come out until August, so I'd say this would all be 2e information.
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby Sturm » Wed Mar 30, 2016 1:32 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Sturm wrote:This is in the official Dark Sun fansite, The Burnt World of Athas:
http://www.athas.org/events

I know almost nothing of 4ed events, so I'm not sure if it includes them, but I guess it does..


Not according to this text at the top of the page:
http://www.athas.org/events wrote:Given the setting reset in the Dark Sun 4, it's possible that all or none of these events have actually occured.


Ah thanks, didn't notice that. I even have the 4ed Dark Sun book and I haven't fully read it yet :) maybe eventually I'll be able to do that :)
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby apotheot » Wed Jun 01, 2016 2:16 pm

HAS anyone done a 4e specific timeline? or a timeline that incorporates the two versions of the setting? There are differences, I know, but I don't think that anything is irreconcilable...even the Pentad had times when they talked of gods once existing on Athas...which later became heretical in 2nd ed. So I imagine they could be merged fairly well. I would do it myself, except that my timeline now contains too many references to stuff that occurred in my campaigns or back-history thereof.
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby Zeromaru X » Wed Jun 01, 2016 11:01 pm

Well, the 4e timeline is not that different to the original one. There are really a few changes:

1. The Dawn War happened in Athas. Is the same Dawn War that happened in the Nentir Vale world and Abeir-Toril, according to the book "Heroes of the Elemental Chaos". The Dawn War was a war fought in many fronts, and while the gods of the Nentir Vale and Abeir-Toril survived and won, the gods of Athas lost, and were killed or greatly diminished and now are missing. They abandoned that world or are dormant, powerless to do something. The Primordials didn't destroyed Athas, though, and at least two of them are dormant in some parts of the world of Athas.

2. There is no mention of the Blue Age in the history section of the Dark Sun Campaign Setting. They start right away in the Green Age. However, they hint of eras that existed before the Green Age, just that nobody alive now —sans the Sorcerer-Kings— know about them. There is a Red Age, that is the name of the era in which the Cleansing Wars happened, and the current era is commonly known as the Desert Age.

3. There is no mention of a second race of Dray (dragonborn), neither a mutant, imperfect first race. Only one, perfected enough that all of them are homogeneous. The Dray are still considered a failure and exiled, thought a few of them were permitted to live alongside Dregoth (maybe as a reference to the perfect Dray of the original Dark Sun). The events of the destruction of Giustenal and the foundation of New Giustenal happen like in the original timeline.

4. The campaign begins just after the death of Kalak, Sorcerer-King of Tyr. The events described in the Prism Pentad and the books and adventures of the original Dark Sun are possible, but not mandatory in this new timeline. That means this new timeline can have a new history in which the other Sorcerer-Kings are still alive, King Tithian can still be a good king, Borys the Dragon still alive and rampaging the region of Tyr, and Rajaat still sealed, without hope of being released ever again; instead of most of them killed like in the original timeline. Or the new timeline can unfold just like the original one. That was left vague on purpose by the developers. The players have the possibility to become a new Dragon or an Avangion, as epic destinies, what means they can also influence the events of the new timeline for good or for ill.

5. There is a novel, "Under the Crimson Sun", that links the world of Athas to the rest of the D&D multiverse thanks to the events of the Abyssal Plague. I haven't read that novel yet, thought, but I guess the events of that novel are exclusive to the new timeline.

6. Also, there are the events described in the comic "Ianto's Tomb", that maybe only fit in the new timeline (I haven't read it, either).
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby apotheot » Thu Jun 02, 2016 9:00 am

Also there are several Dragon and Dungeon articles that have some back history mentioned. As well as a few adventures and some organized play ones. Its enough to put together a rough timeline, or to add those references in to the 2nd ed timeline.
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby Big Mac » Thu Jun 02, 2016 5:55 pm

Zeromaru X wrote:Well, the 4e timeline is not that different to the original one. There are really a few changes:

1. The Dawn War happened in Athas. Is the same Dawn War that happened in the Nentir Vale world and Abeir-Toril, according to the book "Heroes of the Elemental Chaos". The Dawn War was a war fought in many fronts, and while the gods of the Nentir Vale and Abeir-Toril survived and won, the gods of Athas lost, and were killed or greatly diminished and now are missing. They abandoned that world or are dormant, powerless to do something. The Primordials didn't destroyed Athas, though, and at least two of them are dormant in some parts of the world of Athas.


I guess the 4e design team wanted The Dawn War to be retconned into the entire D&D multiverse (including any campaign settings they did not produce new material for.

One thing I don't get is that 3e Eberron gave me the impression that Eberron does not have the same backstory as other D&D campaign settings, but I think I've seen The Dawn War and or the Abyssal Plague mentioned with Eberron, so that would link it into the same multiverse as Dark Sun (and other worlds).

Zeromaru X wrote:2. There is no mention of the Blue Age in the history section of the Dark Sun Campaign Setting. They start right away in the Green Age. However, they hint of eras that existed before the Green Age, just that nobody alive now —sans the Sorcerer-Kings— know about them. There is a Red Age, that is the name of the era in which the Cleansing Wars happened, and the current era is commonly known as the Desert Age.


I guess that no mention is not the same as "this does not exist". I guess it just means that it is a prehistoric event. Maybe the PCs could discover the Blue Age themselves. (Maybe something would have been done with it if 4e Dark Sun had continued.)

Zeromaru X wrote:3. There is no mention of a second race of Dray (dragonborn), neither a mutant, imperfect first race. Only one, perfected enough that all of them are homogeneous. The Dray are still considered a failure and exiled, thought a few of them were permitted to live alongside Dregoth (maybe as a reference to the perfect Dray of the original Dark Sun). The events of the destruction of Giustenal and the foundation of New Giustenal happen like in the original timeline.


Perhaps they were just cut out to fit Dark Sun into the 3-book format. I wonder if they would have added in the second race, if they had more books to fill up with Dark Sun stuff.

Zeromaru X wrote:4. The campaign begins just after the death of Kalak, Sorcerer-King of Tyr. The events described in the Prism Pentad and the books and adventures of the original Dark Sun are possible, but not mandatory in this new timeline. That means this new timeline can have a new history in which the other Sorcerer-Kings are still alive, King Tithian can still be a good king, Borys the Dragon still alive and rampaging the region of Tyr, and Rajaat still sealed, without hope of being released ever again; instead of most of them killed like in the original timeline. Or the new timeline can unfold just like the original one. That was left vague on purpose by the developers. The players have the possibility to become a new Dragon or an Avangion, as epic destinies, what means they can also influence the events of the new timeline for good or for ill.


That's good. It winds time back, without making it impossible for a 2e Dark Sun group to carry on playing in a later time period (with 4e rules).

Zeromaru X wrote:5. There is a novel, "Under the Crimson Sun", that links the world of Athas to the rest of the D&D multiverse thanks to the events of the Abyssal Plague. I haven't read that novel yet, thought, but I guess the events of that novel are exclusive to the new timeline.


I think we need a topic to discuss that novel. :)

EDIT: [novel] Abyssal Plague: Under the Crimson Sun.

Zeromaru X wrote:6. Also, there are the events described in the comic "Ianto's Tomb", that maybe only fit in the new timeline (I haven't read it, either).


Maybe we need a topic for that comic too. :)

EDIT 2: [comic] Ianto's Tomb
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby ripvanwormer » Thu Jun 02, 2016 11:12 pm

Big Mac wrote: I think I've seen The Dawn War and or the Abyssal Plague mentioned with Eberron, so that would link it into the same multiverse as Dark Sun (and other worlds).


No Dawn War in Eberron because Eberron's gods are distant (and may not exist). What it has instead is the war between the rakshasas and couatls that brought about the end of the Age of Demons, which is sort of roughly equivalent. Insofar as the rakshasa rajahs are equivalent to primordials.

The Abyssal Plague didn't extend to Eberron.
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby Zeromaru X » Fri Jun 03, 2016 1:36 am

Big Mac wrote:I guess the 4e design team wanted The Dawn War to be retconned into the entire D&D multiverse (including any campaign settings they did not produce new material for.


Well, seeing that the Battle of Pesh is officially the last battle of the Dawn War (according to 4e Demonomicon), yeah it seems the Dawn War is just the new official name for the battle that happened in the Age before Ages, and just happened in all the worlds that share the same "standard" cosmology.

Big Mac wrote:One thing I don't get is that 3e Eberron gave me the impression that Eberron does not have the same backstory as other D&D campaign settings, but I think I've seen The Dawn War and or the Abyssal Plague mentioned with Eberron, so that would link it into the same multiverse as Dark Sun (and other worlds).


The Abyssal Plague is indeed mentioned to have the potencial to happen in Eberron, in one of the Dragon Magazine articles. There are no products of the plague actually happening in Eberron though, just a reference to Eberron in the Gates of Madness novel.

As for the Dawn War, neither the 4e Eberron Campaign Setting or the Heroes of the Elemental Chaos mention Eberron. It seems in Eberron the Dawn War never happened. We can ask HellcowKeith about it, to be sure.
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby ripvanwormer » Fri Jun 03, 2016 2:32 am

Zeromaru X wrote: There are no products of the plague actually happening in Eberron though, just a reference to Eberron in the Gates of Madness novel.


What was the reference to Eberron in the Gates of Madness novel? I couldn't find it.
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby Zeromaru X » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:15 am

Just a little mention of one of the characters seeing one of the elemental airships when the Living Gate was completed again:

Albric bent his will to the gate, and the flickering landscape slowed ever so slightly. He saw a forbidding city towering over a desolate wasteland, then a city full of graceful towers with a fire-ringed galleon drifting through the sky above it. Faerie lights danced along a wooded seashore.
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby ripvanwormer » Fri Jun 03, 2016 3:27 am

Oh, okay, that must be Sharn.
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Re: Where to find a timeline of Dark Sun?

Postby Big Mac » Sun Oct 23, 2016 9:17 am

ripvanwormer wrote:
Big Mac wrote: I think I've seen The Dawn War and or the Abyssal Plague mentioned with Eberron, so that would link it into the same multiverse as Dark Sun (and other worlds).


No Dawn War in Eberron because Eberron's gods are distant (and may not exist). What it has instead is the war between the rakshasas and couatls that brought about the end of the Age of Demons, which is sort of roughly equivalent. Insofar as the rakshasa rajahs are equivalent to primordials.

The Abyssal Plague didn't extend to Eberron.


...and...

Zeromaru X wrote:
Big Mac wrote:One thing I don't get is that 3e Eberron gave me the impression that Eberron does not have the same backstory as other D&D campaign settings, but I think I've seen The Dawn War and or the Abyssal Plague mentioned with Eberron, so that would link it into the same multiverse as Dark Sun (and other worlds).


The Abyssal Plague is indeed mentioned to have the potencial to happen in Eberron, in one of the Dragon Magazine articles. There are no products of the plague actually happening in Eberron though, just a reference to Eberron in the Gates of Madness novel.

As for the Dawn War, neither the 4e Eberron Campaign Setting or the Heroes of the Elemental Chaos mention Eberron. It seems in Eberron the Dawn War never happened. We can ask HellcowKeith about it, to be sure.


Thanks for the correction.

I've got a feeling that Keith didn't intend to add the Abyssal Plague or Dawn War to Eberron. He doesn't own the setting, so WotC can add in any reboots that they want to. I'd bet that the Abyssal Plague and Dawn War will not get mentioned in any 5e Eberron products.
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