Half Giants

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Half Giants

Postby Havard » Sat Aug 06, 2016 5:28 pm

What is the origin of Half Giants exactly? What do you think of the 4E decision to replace them with Goliaths? How different were 2E's Half-Giants with Goliaths?

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Re: Half Giants

Postby Big Mac » Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:57 pm

Havard wrote:What is the origin of Half Giants exactly?


I presume it would be similar to the origin of the Mul. ;)

The difference in size between humans and giants must have been an issue though. I presume that the first half-giant would have needed to have a human father and a giant mother, so that the baby could grow large enough in it's mother's womb. :?

Havard wrote:What do you think of the 4E decision to replace them with Goliaths? How different were 2E's Half-Giants with Goliaths?


I don't have the 4e Dark Sun books. Did 4e actually replace them with goliaths...or did it just tell people to use goliath stats for half-giants? :?
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Arnkel » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:10 pm

Half Giants were a magically created Hybrid race made from Human and Athasian Giant stock. They were created by one of the sorcerer kings, I want to say Nibenay, but I don't can't recall if that was just something I assumed given knowledge of Nibenay or if it was actually canon. They were created specifically to be a sort of easily controlled super soldier.
I am rabidly anti 4e so I'll avoid the second question.
Based on 3.5e Goliaths from Races of Stone, the original Dark Sun boxed set's Half Giants were massively different. Half Giants from 2e were as strong(Str 21-24) and tough(Con 17-22) as Mekillots and about as bright(Int 3-13, which is bad by Athasian standards, and additional penalties to Wis and Cha). Like Thrikreen, the 2e original boxed set versions of Half Giants were much larger than their 3.X/4e incarnations, with males standing around 11-12 Ft tall on average. This is compared to the 3e Goliath who is only 7-8 Ft tall.
Flavor wise, Goliaths and Half Giants are also pretty different, Goliaths presented in Races of Stone being a semi-nomadic race of spiritual, reclusive, mountain dwellers while Half Giants are fully integrated into Athasian cultures and even psychologically dependent on other races to determine their behavior.
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Big Mac » Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:54 pm

Arnkel wrote:Half Giants were a magically created Hybrid race made from Human and Athasian Giant stock. They were created by one of the sorcerer kings, I want to say Nibenay, but I don't can't recall if that was just something I assumed given knowledge of Nibenay or if it was actually canon. They were created specifically to be a sort of easily controlled super soldier.


Thanks for that, Arnkel.

I remember a half giant in one of the Dark Sun novels I read, but I can't remember the origin story coming up there, but magical experiments sounds good, as the size difference between giants and humans is quite big.

I hope that somone who recalls more comes along and points us all at the source.

Arnkel wrote: Based on 3.5e Goliaths from Races of Stone, the original Dark Sun boxed set's Half Giants were massively different. Half Giants from 2e were as strong(Str 21-24) and tough(Con 17-22) as Mekillots and about as bright(Int 3-13, which is bad by Athasian standards, and additional penalties to Wis and Cha). Like Thrikreen, the 2e original boxed set versions of Half Giants were much larger than their 3.X/4e incarnations, with males standing around 11-12 Ft tall on average. This is compared to the 3e Goliath who is only 7-8 Ft tall.
Flavor wise, Goliaths and Half Giants are also pretty different, Goliaths presented in Races of Stone being a semi-nomadic race of spiritual, reclusive, mountain dwellers while Half Giants are fully integrated into Athasian cultures and even psychologically dependent on other races to determine their behavior.


It sounds to me that goliaths would be a good fit for Dark Sun, but that they should be an alternative to the half giant (with a new Dark Sun backstory) rather than a replacement for the half giant.

Maybe the 4e designers were trying to avoid things like the Level Adjustement/Effective Character Level mechanism of the 3rd Edition Era and thought that half giants were too "powerful" to work alongside other PC races. :?

Assuming the 4e goliath doesn't just have a "copy and paste" version of the 2e half-giant background, I might be tempted to use that along with 3rd edition rules for goliaths (as I'm a 3e player). (Maybe I might use them as "quarter giants" - half human/half half giant crossbreeds. :) )

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Re: Half Giants

Postby Havard » Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:07 am

Arnkel wrote:Half Giants were a magically created Hybrid race made from Human and Athasian Giant stock. They were created by one of the sorcerer kings, I want to say Nibenay, but I don't can't recall if that was just something I assumed given knowledge of Nibenay or if it was actually canon. They were created specifically to be a sort of easily controlled super soldier.


Very interesting! I like that they are magically created. Something else would have been a bit...weird. I like that they were created for a specific purpose. Are regular Athasian Giants very different from standard A/D&D giants?

Based on 3.5e Goliaths from Races of Stone, the original Dark Sun boxed set's Half Giants were massively different. Half Giants from 2e were as strong(Str 21-24) and tough(Con 17-22) as Mekillots and about as bright(Int 3-13, which is bad by Athasian standards, and additional penalties to Wis and Cha). Like Thrikreen, the 2e original boxed set versions of Half Giants were much larger than their 3.X/4e incarnations, with males standing around 11-12 Ft tall on average. This is compared to the 3e Goliath who is only 7-8 Ft tall.
Flavor wise, Goliaths and Half Giants are also pretty different, Goliaths presented in Races of Stone being a semi-nomadic race of spiritual, reclusive, mountain dwellers while Half Giants are fully integrated into Athasian cultures and even psychologically dependent on other races to determine their behavior.


Thanks! This is very helpful when deciding which version of Half Giants to go with. I do like Goliaths quite a bit, but perhaps for Dark Sun we don't really need them. I wonder if Half Giants would be too powerful for the later editions?

What are Meillots?

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Re: Half Giants

Postby Arnkel » Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:19 am

The only standard D&D giant I can think of that exists in Athas according to the lore is the Cyclops. The Athasian Giant types are Desert, Plains, and Beast Head. The Desert and Plains giants are 20-25 Ft tall, and look human, just bigger, and usually stockier. The Beasthead giants were shorter, 15-20 Ft tall, but I recall them being different in the novels from how they were portrayed in the Dark Sun Monstrous Compendium entry.

The original boxed set version of Dark Sun was a very high powered type game, that every version thereafter seemed to back away from in the name of 'balance.'

As much as I love Dark Sun, the setting has a definite problem with humanoid races bloat. There are just way too many of them, though the reasoning given is that the Pristine Tower has caused a lot of mutations. As it stands though, the tablelands are about the size of the American State of Rhode Island, but has an overwhelmingly huge population(that every edition seems to add new settlements to). So much for it being a bleak, dying world. :P

Mekillots are massive, slow moving, armored lizards used by Athasian merchant houses to pull armored wagons across the wastes between the city states. They have massive appetites and are omnivores. Slaves who die on the trip usually end up being fed to them. The only unarmored parts of them are their undersides. Unfortunately, when attacked, they drop to the ground, and given that they weigh several tons, that generally means anyone stupid enough to attack them tends to become a bloody smear. They also have incredibly long tongues which they use to draw prey into their massive jaws.
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Tim Baker » Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:35 am

Big Mac wrote:Maybe the 4e designers were trying to avoid things like the Level Adjustement/Effective Character Level mechanism of the 3rd Edition Era and thought that half giants were too "powerful" to work alongside other PC races.

I just read the half-giant entry for 4e, and I believe you're right. Mechanically, the 4e half-giants use the same stats as goliaths, which had been introduced as a race closer to the 3e version by the time the 4e Dark Sun book was published. 4e never had a level adjustment mechanic; all races needed to be balanced. Thus, the half-giants were "shrunk" to the very top of the size range for medium creatures (same as goliaths).

However, they retain their 2e background, being described as a magically created servant race. Thousands of them serve the Dragon Kings, while free individuals often work as laborers, guards, mercenaries, thugs, or bandits.
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Kamelion » Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:53 am

Athas also has Crag Giants, which tend to be less bestial than the other types.

In play, the main thing that sets 2e half-giants apart is the fact that they roll double Hit Dice. High stats do give them a boost, but having twice as many hit points as everyone else is the real divider. That, and the need for enormous pants. Still, all the more reason to bring on extra megapedes :D
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Havard » Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:44 pm

Arnkel wrote:The only standard D&D giant I can think of that exists in Athas according to the lore is the Cyclops. The Athasian Giant types are Desert, Plains, and Beast Head. The Desert and Plains giants are 20-25 Ft tall, and look human, just bigger, and usually stockier. The Beasthead giants were shorter, 15-20 Ft tall, but I recall them being different in the novels from how they were portrayed in the Dark Sun Monstrous Compendium entry.


Do the Beasthead Giants have beastlike heads? Or is there another explanation for their name?

The original boxed set version of Dark Sun was a very high powered type game, that every version thereafter seemed to back away from in the name of 'balance.'


I like a certain kind of balance in my games, but I think games can be both high powered and balanced.


As much as I love Dark Sun, the setting has a definite problem with humanoid races bloat. There are just way too many of them, though the reasoning given is that the Pristine Tower has caused a lot of mutations. As it stands though, the tablelands are about the size of the American State of Rhode Island, but has an overwhelmingly huge population(that every edition seems to add new settlements to). So much for it being a bleak, dying world. :P


I could see how a world that previously had lots of races could still have small groups of each race around, sort of like with the various mutated people in the Mad Max movies, but if there are large populations of each race, that does become problematic yeah.

Mekillots are massive, slow moving, armored lizards used by Athasian merchant houses to pull armored wagons across the wastes between the city states. They have massive appetites and are omnivores. Slaves who die on the trip usually end up being fed to them. The only unarmored parts of them are their undersides. Unfortunately, when attacked, they drop to the ground, and given that they weigh several tons, that generally means anyone stupid enough to attack them tends to become a bloody smear. They also have incredibly long tongues which they use to draw prey into their massive jaws.


Cool, I remember them now. Thanks! Poor slaves :twisted:

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Re: Half Giants

Postby Kamelion » Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:27 pm

Havard wrote:Do the Beasthead Giants have beastlike heads? Or is there another explanation for their name?

Yeah, it's exactly as it sounds. They have giant monster animal heads.
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Arnkel » Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:10 pm

Havard wrote:I like a certain kind of balance in my games, but I think games can be both high powered and balanced.


The problem is more that they shoehorned the setting to fit the system rather than altering the system to fit the setting. Something about doing that just feels horribly wrong to me.

Havard wrote:I could see how a world that previously had lots of races could still have small groups of each race around, sort of like with the various mutated people in the Mad Max movies, but if there are large populations of each race, that does become problematic yeah.


There were numerous races with large populations. Elves, Humans, Sligs, Tarek, Tari, 2 different types of Kreen, B'rohg, Dwarves, Desert & Plains Giants, Pterrans, Scrabs, Silt Runners, Gith, Anakores, and Belgoi are all sentient races native to the area, listed as Common or Uncommon Frequency encounters(which I generally take to mean as having sizable populations with the region), and have some sort of formalized social structure. I left out races that were not native to the area(such as Nikaal and Ssurran) or those that were listed as common, do not normally occur naturally(such as Muls), or are generally only found in a particular region(such as Halflings and Dray). Oddly enough, Half Giants are listed as a rare encounter, which suggests only smaller numbers exist, yet they're known to exist in almost every city state, and are particularly common in Nibenay where we know at least 1,000 of them happen to live since that's the "core" of the Nibenese Infantry according to the Ivory Triangle boxed set.
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Re: Half Giants

Postby The Dark » Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:41 pm

Arnkel wrote:The original boxed set version of Dark Sun was a very high powered type game, that every version thereafter seemed to back away from in the name of 'balance.'
The biggest things were the adjusted stat rolls and all PCs being (at least) wild talents. On the flip side, the reduced magic and lack of armor reduced power levels slightly. DS characters were still more powerful, but not every change made them stronger.

As much as I love Dark Sun, the setting has a definite problem with humanoid races bloat. There are just way too many of them, though the reasoning given is that the Pristine Tower has caused a lot of mutations.
I do tend to tone it down a bit in my campaigns, tossing out a bunch of the humanoids from the MCs; since halflings don't generally make good PCs from a story perspective, one ends up with humans, dwarves, elves, kreen, and the half-races of half-elves, half-giants, and muls.

As it stands though, the tablelands are about the size of the American State of Rhode Island, but has an overwhelmingly huge population(that every edition seems to add new settlements to). So much for it being a bleak, dying world. :P
The Dark Sun wiki states the Tablelands are around 100,000 square miles (260,000 square kilometers), which is closer to the size of Wyoming (98,000 square miles) or Colorado (104,000 square miles) and slightly larger than the United Kingdom (245,000 square kilometers).
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Arnkel » Mon Aug 08, 2016 2:52 am

The Dark wrote:The biggest things were the adjusted stat rolls and all PCs being (at least) wild talents. On the flip side, the reduced magic and lack of armor reduced power levels slightly. DS characters were still more powerful, but not every change made them stronger.


I guess that depends on group composition and playstyle. My groups never had problems with lack of magic or armor. There was always seemed to include defilers and templars.

The Dark Sun wiki states the Tablelands are around 100,000 square miles (260,000 square kilometers), which is closer to the size of Wyoming (98,000 square miles) or Colorado (104,000 square miles) and slightly larger than the United Kingdom (245,000 square kilometers).


I just tracked down my map from the original boxed set(Labeled "The Tyr Region"). The only way I can account for the wiki's 100,000 square miles is if you count the Hinterlands and sections of the Sea of Silt which are not actually part of the tablelands. Granted, I was wrong too, the region I was thinking of being about rhode island sized was one section I'd measured off in my notes prior for a particular game. As near as I can tell, the Tablelands region is somewhere between 50,000 and 65,000 square miles, so at largest, about the rough size of Florida or Tunisia. Which is a rather small amount of land for such large populations and varied species to exist, especially when many of them are described as being xenophobic or isolationist. Populations seem right city state wise for 4th century BC Greece, but Greece during that period wasn't a giant wasteland infested with quite so many monsters(unless you had the really good drugs :P). I just think the region seems a bit lively for a supposedly dying world.
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Re: Half Giants

Postby rabindranath72 » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:41 am

2e Half-giants had impressive physical stats and got a boatload of hit points; but then they usually lost more hit points in combat due to weapon vs. size rules. Buying anything for them was impractical at best (higher prices, lack of accommodations.) And finally, the alignment rule was very punishing; you had to play a sociopath. I much prefer the 4e re-invention, making half-giants fully playable without sacrificing the concept of a race crafted by sorcery.
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Kamelion » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:58 am

Here's the quote from the Wanderer's Journal regarding the size of the Tablelands:

"Athas, or at least the explored portion, consists of about one million square miles of desert. In its center, covering an area of about 120,000 square miles, is a vast, dust-filled basin that I call the Sea of Silt."

If you read that carefully, you'll see it places the Sea of Silt in the center. That means that the Wanderer is including the regions that lie to the north, south, and east of the Sea of Silt in his estimation. He continues:

"Surrounding this dry sea is a band of Tablelands, ranging from as much as 400 miles wide to as little as 50."

And then:

"The Tablelands are encircled by the various ranges of the Ringing Mountains. These ranges all run north and south. To the east and west of the Sea of Silt, the mountains form solid walls separating the tablelands from the unknown regions beyond. To the north and south of the dusty sea, they form a series of parallel ribs. The deep valleys between the ridges lead away from central Athas like a series of long (and hazardous) corridors."

So, while small compared to other game worlds, it's far from tiny.

The area covered in the boxed sets is smaller than this, of course. But the population of the region is very small. The nine city-states have about 200,000 citizens between them. You could double that to account for various villages and undocumented settlements or even triple it and you're still at just over half a million people. Tunisia, by comparison, has a population of almost 11 million. The Tablelands are not a lively region at all. If you go with a generous 600,000 inhabitants in the area covered by the boxed sets and follow the estimate of 65,000 square miles for that region, you're looking at a population density of about 9 people per square mile (or about 4 per square kilometre). That's about the same as Australia and Canada - ie, the population is concentrated into a number of cities, but most of it is wilderness. Athas is a sparsely populated wasteland.
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Arnkel » Mon Aug 08, 2016 12:26 pm

Where are you getting the population figures from? I've been looking for exact city state populations and usually end up with holes in the data.
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Kamelion » Mon Aug 08, 2016 5:28 pm

Populations were first given in the Veiled Alliance supplement for the original seven cities. The revised boxed set gave updated (slightly higher) figures and added population amounts for Kurn and Eldaarich. If you go by the older amounts, it's just under 200,000 for the cities, and just over 200,000 by the newer figures.

(It's not clear how the 1,000 slaves per city per year that the Dragon demands factor into this figure - do they come from the metropolitan population, from the outlying villages, from captives or war or what? But that's an entirely different can of worms ;) )
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Arnkel » Mon Aug 08, 2016 8:22 pm

Of all the weird places to put demographic information . . . Thanks for that. When I get home I'll dig out my copy of VA and compare its numbers with other numbers I have from other sources.
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Re: Half Giants

Postby willpell » Mon Aug 08, 2016 9:22 pm

Arnkel wrote:As much as I love Dark Sun, the setting has a definite problem with humanoid races bloat. There are just way too many of them, though the reasoning given is that the Pristine Tower has caused a lot of mutations. As it stands though, the tablelands are about the size of the American State of Rhode Island, but has an overwhelmingly huge population(that every edition seems to add new settlements to). So much for it being a bleak, dying world. :P


If something like twenty percent of the planet's entire population lives in a Rhode-Island sized area, because that's the only place capable of supporting life, the world is still bleak and dying. Having one or two gigantic, squalid metropolises bustling with frenzied, desperate activity hardly prevents this. :)
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Big Mac » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:14 am

Kamelion wrote:
Havard wrote:Do the Beasthead Giants have beastlike heads? Or is there another explanation for their name?

Yeah, it's exactly as it sounds. They have giant monster animal heads.


According to the Prism Pentad they are actually normal giants, who swap their heads for animal heads in some sort of (presumably magical) ceremony. Their normal heads do not die, but are instead imprisoned in some sort of container. The heads try to get out of this container, and I think they try to fly through the air to attempt to reclaim their bodies. I'm not sure of the logic behind this. Maybe it was just a strange scene to make the novel interesting. Or maybe that is backed up by tabletop canon.
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Lord Torath » Tue Nov 15, 2016 4:40 am

Kamelion wrote:Here's the quote from the Wanderer's Journal regarding the size of the Tablelands:

"Athas, or at least the explored portion, consists of about one million square miles of desert. In its center, covering an area of about 120,000 square miles, is a vast, dust-filled basin that I call the Sea of Silt."

If you read that carefully, you'll see it places the Sea of Silt in the center. That means that the Wanderer is including the regions that lie to the north, south, and east of the Sea of Silt in his estimation. He continues:

"Surrounding this dry sea is a band of Tablelands, ranging from as much as 400 miles wide to as little as 50."

And then:

"The Tablelands are encircled by the various ranges of the Ringing Mountains. These ranges all run north and south. To the east and west of the Sea of Silt, the mountains form solid walls separating the tablelands from the unknown regions beyond. To the north and south of the dusty sea, they form a series of parallel ribs. The deep valleys between the ridges lead away from central Athas like a series of long (and hazardous) corridors."

So, while small compared to other game worlds, it's far from tiny.

The area covered in the boxed sets is smaller than this, of course. But the population of the region is very small. The nine city-states have about 200,000 citizens between them. You could double that to account for various villages and undocumented settlements or even triple it and you're still at just over half a million people. Tunisia, by comparison, has a population of almost 11 million. The Tablelands are not a lively region at all. If you go with a generous 600,000 inhabitants in the area covered by the boxed sets and follow the estimate of 65,000 square miles for that region, you're looking at a population density of about 9 people per square mile (or about 4 per square kilometre). That's about the same as Australia and Canada - ie, the population is concentrated into a number of cities, but most of it is wilderness. Athas is a sparsely populated wasteland.
The Revised rules changed this, changing the Ringing Mountains into a much smaller range that no longer fully encircles the Sea of Silt. Actually, I think it was before they came out with the Revised Rules. I think by the time Thri-Kreen of Athas came out, they had changed the Ringing Mountains into an arc, rather than a full ring, allowing easier access to the Hinterlands (and down the cliff to the Tohr-Kreen Empire).

Does anyone know which publication first "broke" the Ringing Mountains? Thri-Kreen of Athas was published in 1995, and they were broken at that point.
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Re: Half Giants

Postby willpell » Wed Nov 16, 2016 2:48 am

Big Mac wrote:According to the Prism Pentad they are actually normal giants, who swap their heads for animal heads in some sort of (presumably magical) ceremony. Their normal heads do not die, but are instead imprisoned in some sort of container. The heads try to get out of this container, and I think they try to fly through the air to attempt to reclaim their bodies. I'm not sure of the logic behind this. Maybe it was just a strange scene to make the novel interesting. Or maybe that is backed up by tabletop canon.


Flying heads? Sounds like Asian mythology. Could be a way of crossing the streams....
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Jayce » Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:58 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Arnkel wrote:
Flavor wise, Goliaths and Half Giants are also pretty different, Goliaths presented in Races of Stone being a semi-nomadic race of spiritual, reclusive, mountain dwellers while Half Giants are fully integrated into Athasian cultures and even psychologically dependent on other races to determine their behavior.


It sounds to me that goliaths would be a good fit for Dark Sun, but that they should be an alternative to the half giant (with a new Dark Sun backstory) rather than a replacement for the half giant.



The problem is that race (Goliaths) basically already existed in 2E Dark Sun - they were called the Tarek, and even graced the cover of the original Dark Setting campaign setting boxed set. :?
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Re: Half Giants

Postby Havard » Mon Dec 05, 2016 5:11 pm

Jayce wrote:The problem is that race (Goliaths) basically already existed in 2E Dark Sun - they were called the Tarek, and even graced the cover of the original Dark Setting campaign setting boxed set. :?


What's the main difference between Half-Giants and Tareks then?

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Re: Half Giants

Postby Jayce » Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:59 pm

Havard wrote:
Jayce wrote:The problem is that race (Goliaths) basically already existed in 2E Dark Sun - they were called the Tarek, and even graced the cover of the original Dark Setting campaign setting boxed set. :?


What's the main difference between Half-Giants and Tareks then?

-Havard


Well, Half-Giants are a purely artifical race of 12 ft tall musclebound freaks who dwell in the city states of the sorcerer-kings who employ them as super soldiers and gladiators, and who have no real culture of their own, instead basically trying to mimic those around them. Half-Giants are anything but cerebral though - although they count psionicists and clerics among there number, these are few and far between; they are ultimately a race of warriors, and are a popular choice as elite soldiers for

Tareks, on the other hand, are a completely natural 6 1/2 ft tall hulking brutes - nomadic warriors who inhabit the mountainous and and hilly areas of the Tyr region. While Tareks are in high demand as gladiators in the Tyr region's city-states, they have a unique and deeply spiritual culture in which earth clerics, who live outside of (but near) the main Tarek communities, are revered as great prophets. Tareks frequently undertake pilgrimages to study under these shamans. Another example of their strong religious bent is their refusal to use weapons made out of anything other than stone or obsidian, regardless of their character class - because stone and rock, and the mountains in which they live are themselves considered sacred, to use a weapon made out of steel or bone, for example, would be considered an affront to the earth spirits they venerate. Their veneration of earth spirits also leads them to revile to things they consider "unnatural" - basically anything that has any ties to magic - this includes elves (because they are frequently magic-users) and gith (because they are abominations that pervert the mountains they hold sacred). They engage in frequent religious warfare with the gith to cleanse their mountain homes of their presence. They are also deeply, deeply reclusive, often attacking anyone who ventures into their territory, unless the visitors are elemental clerics.

Goliaths are basically Tareks who have gotten a slight size boost - culturally, they are pretty much identical. I think it'd be a bit of a shame to blur the lines between Tareks and Half-Giants, since they were both full of flavor and charm in the original Dark Sun setting. :) In fact, considering the Tareks' background, and religiously fueled hatred for anything touched by arcane magic, I think it'd be safe to assume the Tareks would consider Half-Giants unnatural abominations whose very existence is an insult to the earth spirits. :P Really though, flavor-wise, I think the original Dark Sun setting is as fresh as ever - it didn't really need to be updated, I think.

The 2E game rules may be a different story - Half-Giants were, admittedly, incredibly unbalanced in combat with their double hit points and str 24/con 22 (although I don't really care that much about balance, to be honest - I think too much balance makes classes and races feel sort of same-y - moreover, their massive water consumption still made Half-Giants rather unpopular at my gaming table).
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Jayce
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