Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

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Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:40 am

The Creature Catalog is excellent. The double-sided poster map included with the Campaign Setting book is awesome! The DSCS has a lot of crunch. The setting is basically the Tyr Region.

DSCS at a glance..

One page cosmology.

Mul and Thri-Kreen are the new races.

Other primary races...

Dragonborn (Dray)
Dwarf
Eladrin
Elf
Goliath (Half-Giant)
Half-Elf
Halfling
Human
Tiefling

No new classes.

Dune Trader, Elemental Priest, Gladiator, Templar, and Veiled Alliance are all Character Themes. Other themes include Athasian Minstrel, Noble Adept, Primal Guardian, Wasteland Nomad, and Wilder. Two paragon paths for each character theme.

New Builds: Wild Battlemind, Arena Fighter, Animist Shaman, and Warlock Sorcerer-King Pact.

New Epic Destinies: Avangion, Dragon King, Hordemaster, Mind Lord of the Order, and Pyreen.

Two pages for rituals.

Chapter 5: Atlas of Athas (pg. 130 to 193)
Last edited by Knightfall on Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sat Aug 07, 2010 2:27 am

DSCC at a glance...

Uses revised monster stats block and layout as per MM3.

Monsters A to Z
Aarakocra
Anakore
Baazrag
Belgoi
Braxat
Brohg
Cactus
Chathrang
Cloud Ray
Crodlu
Dagorran
Dragon of Tyr
Dragonborn (Dray)
Drake
Dune Reaper
Dwarf
Eladrin
Elf
Floating Mantle
Gaj
Ghost, Raaig
Giant
Gith
Golem
Goliath (Half-Giant)
Halfling
Hejkin
Human
Id Fiend
Inix
Jhakar
Kank
Kestrekel
Kirre
Megapede
Mekillot
Mul
Nightmare Beast
Psurlon
Rampager
Sand Bride
Silk Wyrm
Silt Horror
Silt Runner
Spider
Ssurran (Lizardfolk)
Tarek
Tembo
Thrax
Thri-Kreen
Wight
Zombie

Personages of Athas
Abalach-Re
Andropinis
Dregoth
- Absalom (dragonborn)
Hamanu
Haneth Tsalaxa (changling)
Jossi the Juggler (elf)
Lalali-Puy
Maetan of House Lubar (human)
Mearedes, Sentinel of Shault (goliath)
Nibenay
Tectuktitlay
Ulruun the Repugnant (dwarf)
Zeburon, The Iron Rider (tiefling)

Rules for customizing monsters.

Monster Themes: Arena-Bred Monster, Elementally Infused Monster, Psionic Adept, and Sunwarped Monster.

Plus, Athasian fantastic terrain and hazard.
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Azaghal » Sat Aug 07, 2010 4:13 am

SWEET!!!!
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sat Aug 07, 2010 5:57 am

Atlas of Athas Main Chapter Headings

A Desert Primer
Tyr, The Free City (10 pages!!!)
Balic, City of Sails
Draj, City of the Moons
Estuary of the Forked Tongue
The Forest Ridge
Gulg, The Forest City
The Ivory Triangle
Nibenay, City of Spires
Raam, City of Unrest
Ringing Mountains
Road of Kings
The Sea of Silt
The Southern Wastes
The Tablelands
Urik, City of Lions
The Western Hinterlands
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Eric Anondson » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:21 am

What is the description of the Southern Wastes? Any hint at the lands of the undead south of it? Mention a world below ground?
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Eric Anondson » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:30 am

How did they change the dwarf from 2e? Can Aarakockra be played as a PC race?
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:48 am

Eric Anondson wrote:How did they change the dwarf from 2e? Can Aarakockra be played as a PC race?

The dwarf doesn't have a full racial writeup. Only the mul and thri-kreen do. The other races have short sections devoted to them with two Backgrounds for each race. The Dwarf's backgrounds are Desert Miner and Skilled Artisan. These backgrounds have associated skills and that's it. No crunch.

I think the assumption is that you use the race as presented in the PHB, you simply change the flavor.

There are three Racial Paragon Paths.

Half-Giant Thug [Goliath]
Mul Battle Slave
Thri-Kreen Predator

There aren't any racial traits listed for any of the old 2e PC races in the Creature Catalog. :?
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Eric Anondson » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:50 am

Meh.

So, the dwarf focus, and the elf run are all . . . flavor . . . now?
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:55 am

Eric Anondson wrote:What is the description of the Southern Wastes? Any hint at the lands of the undead south of it? Mention a world below ground?

I haven't really had the chance to sit down and read anything in details. (It's really hot here and I don't have air conditioning.) That said...

The Southern Wastes section is two pages. It has Backgrounds -> Secret Order and Tamwar Dervish. (It looks like every section has Backgrounds but don't quote me on that.)

Here are the headings under "Exploring the Southern Wastes."

Endless Sand Dunes
Arkhold
The Blue Shrine
Celik
The Great Salt Flat
The Mud Palace
The Dead Land

There is also a "short" sidebar on Herumar.
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Eric Anondson » Sat Aug 07, 2010 6:59 am

Dead Lands. Sweet.

This may be a deep question, but do any of the books place the Tyr region anywhere on the planet itself? I'm referring to whether it is southern or northern hemisphere? Latitude? Like that . . .
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:01 am

Eric Anondson wrote:Meh.

So, the dwarf focus, and the elf run are all . . . flavor . . . now?

Well, I haven't done an exhaustive search of the skills, feats, and such.

Plus, I should also mention that each theme has two Paragon Paths. I was skimming I didn't really notice until just this minute. :oops:
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:06 am

Eric Anondson wrote:Dead Lands. Sweet.

This may be a deep question, but do any of the books place the Tyr region anywhere on the planet itself? I'm referring to whether it is southern or northern hemisphere? Latitude? Like that . . .

It doesn't look like it gives any sort of information on where the Tyr Region is located on Athas. I'm not surprised. That's more in depth than I'd expect in a hardcover of this size.

But, like I said before, don't quote me on that.
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:13 am

Maps in the DSCS...

Chapter 5
Under-Tyr (pg. 143)
Balic (pg. 145)
Draj (pg. 150)
Estuary of the Forked Tongue (pg. 153)
Glug (pg. 157)
The Ivory Triangle (pg. 160)
Nibenay (pg. 165)
Raam (pg. 169)
Road of Kings (pg. 175)
Urik (pg. 189)

Sand Raiders short adventure (pg. 216-221)
Three smallish maps
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Eric Anondson » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:16 am

Knightfall wrote:Glug (pg. 157)
Gulg even? :P
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sat Aug 07, 2010 7:30 am

Eric Anondson wrote:
Knightfall wrote:Glug (pg. 157)
Gulg even? :P

Whoops. :oops:

Anyway, I'm going to read for a bit. Later.
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby rabindranath72 » Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:34 am

Are there lots of references to all of the "core" 4e books? I do not have any of the "core" books, at most I will buy the next Essentials.

Thanks,
Antonio
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sat Aug 07, 2010 9:04 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:Are there lots of references to all of the "core" 4e books? I do not have any of the "core" books, at most I will buy the next Essentials.

Thanks,
Antonio

Yes, but not too much. (Re: There are only two fleshed out PC races in the DSCS and no classes.) You likely need the core rulebooks, but I'm betting you'll be able to play Dark Sun with only the Essentials line.

The requirements for the themes seems to be power sources not specific classes.
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby ripvanwormer » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:20 pm

How do eladrins fit into Athas? I only recall a single elven race in the 2nd edition version (no gray/high/sylvan elf disparity). Does Athas have a Feywild? Clearly the Gray would be Athas's Shadowfell, but how does the Black fit in?

Do they still have the paraelemental planes from 2e (sun, rain, silt, magma), or are they just using the Elemental Chaos? Is there an epic destiny for elemental clerics?
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Eric Anondson » Sat Aug 07, 2010 11:45 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:How do eladrins fit into Athas? I only recall a single elven race in the 2nd edition version (no gray/high/sylvan elf disparity). Does Athas have a Feywild? Clearly the Gray would be Athas's Shadowfell, but how does the Black fit in?

Do they still have the paraelemental planes from 2e (sun, rain, silt, magma), or are they just using the Elemental Chaos? Is there an epic destiny for elemental clerics?
There is a Feywild now. Eladrin are sort of the guardians of it. The Feywild is a shattered remnant of what other settings know it as, only disconnected pockets are found across Athas. Legends of that mysterious castle in the desert that disappears at sunset, Feywild.

No mention of The Black I've seen yet. Even the Shadow Giants are described as being from The Gray. :x

No paraelements, I guess its the Elemental Chaos now.

Epic Destinies are avangion, dragon king, hordemaster, mind lord of the Order, pyreen. No elemental cleric path.
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:11 am

Eric Anondson wrote:
ripvanwormer wrote:How do eladrins fit into Athas? I only recall a single elven race in the 2nd edition version (no gray/high/sylvan elf disparity). Does Athas have a Feywild? Clearly the Gray would be Athas's Shadowfell, but how does the Black fit in?

Do they still have the paraelemental planes from 2e (sun, rain, silt, magma), or are they just using the Elemental Chaos? Is there an epic destiny for elemental clerics?
There is a Feywild now. Eladrin are sort of the guardians of it. The Feywild is a shattered remnant of what other settings know it as, only disconnected pockets are found across Athas. Legends of that mysterious castle in the desert that disappears at sunset, Feywild.

No mention of The Black I've seen yet. Even the Shadow Giants are described as being from The Gray. :x

No paraelements, I guess its the Elemental Chaos now.

Epic Destinies are avangion, dragon king, hordemaster, mind lord of the Order, pyreen. No elemental cleric path.

The Black doesn't seem to exist in this version of Dark Sun. Divine characters don't exist. (Page 9 has a sidebar that explains how a DM could "include" such a PC, but it isn't canon for the setting). All character options are Martial, Arcane, Psionic, Primal, or Racial.

Each theme has a set of traits and powers. The Gladiator, for instance, has Defender as its secondary role, Martial as its power source, and Disrupting Advance as its granted power. It has 7 powers -- 4 attack powers and 3 utility powers -- in addition to the granted power. Lvl 2; Lvl 3; Lvl 5; Lvl 6; Lvl 7; Lvl 9; Lvl 10. Two are daily powers and the rest are encounter powers.

▪ Theme Benefits:
Granted Power (automatic)
Theme Powers: Choose instead of class powers.
Feats and PPs that use the theme as a prereq.

▪ All theme attack powers have higher level versions that replace lower-lever one. Not automatic.

▪ Retraining allowed.

▪ Can change themes.
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:23 am

Vanquished Races (sidebar): Devas, gnomes, kobolds, ogres, orcs, and trolls. These races no longer exist.

Other Optional Races: Genasi (known as half-elementals), Kalashtar (evolved from psionic masters), Minotaur (corrupted beast-head giants).
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Silverblade-T-E » Sun Aug 08, 2010 5:07 am

Sweet! :)
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby rabindranath72 » Sun Aug 08, 2010 2:37 pm

Knightfall wrote:
rabindranath72 wrote:Are there lots of references to all of the "core" 4e books? I do not have any of the "core" books, at most I will buy the next Essentials.

Thanks,
Antonio

Yes, but not too much. (Re: There are only two fleshed out PC races in the DSCS and no classes.) You likely need the core rulebooks, but I'm betting you'll be able to play Dark Sun with only the Essentials line.

The requirements for the themes seems to be power sources not specific classes.

Thanks for the info!
Now a difficult question ;)
How does this new iteration of Dark Sun compare with the original boxed set? Which is "better" (in terms of, let's say, coverage of background, usefulness for campaigns etc. keeping in mind that the new version is just one book, whereas the old version had many sourcebooks available).
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby Knightfall » Sun Aug 08, 2010 7:01 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:
Knightfall wrote:
rabindranath72 wrote:Are there lots of references to all of the "core" 4e books? I do not have any of the "core" books, at most I will buy the next Essentials.

Thanks,
Antonio

Yes, but not too much. (Re: There are only two fleshed out PC races in the DSCS and no classes.) You likely need the core rulebooks, but I'm betting you'll be able to play Dark Sun with only the Essentials line.

The requirements for the themes seems to be power sources not specific classes.

Thanks for the info!
Now a difficult question ;)
How does this new iteration of Dark Sun compare with the original boxed set? Which is "better" (in terms of, let's say, coverage of background, usefulness for campaigns etc. keeping in mind that the new version is just one book, whereas the old version had many sourcebooks available).

It's no contest. The original version is way more detailed and has better flavor. However, I'd have to say that the new Dark Sun Creature Catalog is now one of my favorite Dark Sun references. It is full of awesome!

The setting book is a great 4e book with a nice overview of the Tyr Region but more than half of it is crunch. The look of the two books is standard 4e, which means that they cannot hope to compete with the aesthetics of the original boxed set and its supplements. However, the DSCC has great art for all the creatures and NPCs.

The main thing the 4e version has going for it is that it is new. It's shiny. It's easy to get a hold of. The original boxed set is tough find as are many of the 2e sourcebooks. Plus, the double-sided poster map is beautiful.
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Re: Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!

Postby rabindranath72 » Mon Aug 09, 2010 10:34 am

Knightfall wrote:
rabindranath72 wrote:
Knightfall wrote:
rabindranath72 wrote:Are there lots of references to all of the "core" 4e books? I do not have any of the "core" books, at most I will buy the next Essentials.

Thanks,
Antonio

Yes, but not too much. (Re: There are only two fleshed out PC races in the DSCS and no classes.) You likely need the core rulebooks, but I'm betting you'll be able to play Dark Sun with only the Essentials line.

The requirements for the themes seems to be power sources not specific classes.

Thanks for the info!
Now a difficult question ;)
How does this new iteration of Dark Sun compare with the original boxed set? Which is "better" (in terms of, let's say, coverage of background, usefulness for campaigns etc. keeping in mind that the new version is just one book, whereas the old version had many sourcebooks available).

It's no contest. The original version is way more detailed and has better flavor. However, I'd have to say that the new Dark Sun Creature Catalog is now one of my favorite Dark Sun references. It is full of awesome!

The setting book is a great 4e book with a nice overview of the Tyr Region but more than half of it is crunch. The look of the two books is standard 4e, which means that they cannot hope to compete with the aesthetics of the original boxed set and its supplements. However, the DSCC has great art for all the creatures and NPCs.

The main thing the 4e version has going for it is that it is new. It's shiny. It's easy to get a hold of. The original boxed set is tough find as are many of the 2e sourcebooks. Plus, the double-sided poster map is beautiful.

Thank you for your honest viewpoint. I actually had some hopes that the DSCS book was more fluff than crunch; based on your account I am not sure I am still interested in it, considering I might not end using the book with 4e at all. One reason to pick it up is that I like having all of a game's material in one book, considering I left almost all my gaming stuff in Italy, and bringing back it all to UK is not in the immediate future...Decisions, decisions... :D
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