Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

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Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by Angel Tarragon » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:27 am

I wonder if someone can tell me what the big differences are between the two.

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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by night_druid » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:32 am

Thri-kreen are nomads, while tohr-kreen are settled kreen.
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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by Angel Tarragon » Mon Oct 03, 2011 1:46 am

night_druid wrote:Thri-kreen are nomads, while tohr-kreen are settled kreen.
There's no mechanical difference between the two?

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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by night_druid » Mon Oct 03, 2011 9:56 am

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:
night_druid wrote:Thri-kreen are nomads, while tohr-kreen are settled kreen.
There's no mechanical difference between the two?
I do not believe so. I couldn't find any separate MC writeup for tohr-kreen, and the only difference it noted is that tohr-kreen are sometimes slightly bigger than thri-kreen due to a better diet.
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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by Birchbeer » Mon Oct 03, 2011 11:48 am

What is known as tohr-kreen are psionically augmented and "changed" thri-kreen. The Thri-kreen supplement for Dark Sun illustrates it better (which I can't seem to find down here in the archives at the moment...). I know there are 6 races of thri-kreen, the two most know (Jeral and I forget the other name), Then there are ones adapted to forests and wet areas, blackish ones, rock crystal and I forget the last breed.

I'll look for the book when I get home tonight and see if I can list it out better.

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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by Angel Tarragon » Mon Oct 03, 2011 8:39 pm

Birchbeer wrote:I'll look for the book when I get home tonight and see if I can list it out better.
Thanks, I appreciate it.

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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by Birchbeer » Tue Oct 04, 2011 2:20 pm

Kreen
(Note the first letter indicates if they currently have a nation (J) or formerly did (T)
Jeral - Sandy Yellow - cultured
J'hol - red-shelled kreen with small abdomens, the most humanoid in appearance
J'ez - kreen with black shells and toothy maws
Tondi - a race of unusual purple kreen that look something like giant flowers or exotic rock formations
T'Keech - dark green chitin identifies them as having once dwelt in areas with plant-life (They don't get rot disease in moist areas unlike other kreen).
To'ksa - Sandy Yellow - barbaric

Zik-trin (Means changed Kreen)
zik-trin'ta are scouts and the write up of Tohr-kreen
zik-trin'ak, built specifically for combat.

Zik-chil - These are a cousin species that retain the ability to manipulate their enzymes and change other Kreen. They create the Ziktrin.

Trin - Primitive Thri-Kreen, walk on 4 legs

There is a poster with the differences, which I can't find online (and am unsure where it is at home). If I find it I'll try to scan it in.

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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by Big Mac » Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:12 pm

Birchbeer wrote:Kreen
(Note the first letter indicates if they currently have a nation (J) or formerly did (T)
<snip>

Zik-trin (Means changed Kreen)
zik-trin'ta are scouts and the write up of Tohr-kreen
zik-trin'ak, built specifically for combat.

Zik-chil - These are a cousin species that retain the ability to manipulate their enzymes and change other Kreen. They create the Ziktrin.
Does the "Z" mean anything?

The Zik-chil sounds phonetically similar to Spelljammer's Xixchil. The description sounds similar too. I wonder if one is based on the other. :?
Birchbeer wrote:Trin - Primitive Thri-Kreen, walk on 4 legs.
Did these guys used to have a nation? Or are they an exception to the "T rule"?
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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by nerik » Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:47 pm

Big Mac wrote:Does the "Z" mean anything?

The Zik-chil sounds phonetically similar to Spelljammer's Xixchil. The description sounds similar too. I wonder if one is based on the other. :?
I've always assumed so :D

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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by Lord Torath » Sat Dec 22, 2012 4:52 am

Big Mac wrote:
Birchbeer wrote:Trin - Primitive Thri-Kreen, walk on 4 legs.
Did these guys used to have a nation? Or are they an exception to the "T rule"?
Trin means "near person." They are really just giant preying mantises, and are relatively unintelligent (5-7). They barely have thoughts beyond "Is that moving?" and "Can I eat it?"
So no, they never had a nation. Just a wide spattering of cannibalistic packs (they won't each fellow pack members, but non-pack Trin are fair game).

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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by Big Mac » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:26 pm

Lord Torath wrote:
Big Mac wrote:
Birchbeer wrote:Trin - Primitive Thri-Kreen, walk on 4 legs.
Did these guys used to have a nation? Or are they an exception to the "T rule"?
Trin means "near person." They are really just giant preying mantises, and are relatively unintelligent (5-7). They barely have thoughts beyond "Is that moving?" and "Can I eat it?"
So no, they never had a nation. Just a wide spattering of cannibalistic packs (they won't each fellow pack members, but non-pack Trin are fair game).
Thanks. I was kind of thinking of them as devolved, but it seems like they have the same relationship to the other races as carnivorous apes have to D&D humans.

I suppose that trin are useful if a player with a PC kreen needs to have an animal companion. :?
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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by Knightfall » Sun Feb 24, 2013 4:33 am

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:I wonder if someone can tell me what the big differences are between the two.
TAD,

If you can find it, I suggest buying a copy of Thri-Kreen of Athas. The book is the best overview of Athasian kreen, period. It has monster entries for the Trin and the Zik-trin'ak. Here's a list of the chapter headings...

Introduction
Chapter One: Psychological Nature
Chapter Two: Physical Nature
Chapter Three: Combat and Special Abilities
Chapter Four: Thri-Kreen Society
Chapter Five: Pack and Nation
Chapter Six: Thri-Kreen PCs
The Taste of Fear (adventure)
Appendix: New Monsters
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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by Angel Tarragon » Tue Feb 26, 2013 12:47 am

Wow, that chapter list looks good. All all the Kreen represented in Chapter 6?

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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by Knightfall » Tue Feb 26, 2013 6:10 am

Twin Agate Dragons wrote:Wow, that chapter list looks good. All all the Kreen represented in Chapter 6?
Thri-Kreen of Athas (p. 85)
Only thri-kreen with adventuring professions (those with character classes) are covered in this chapter. Thri-kreen raised as hunters (those who use the thri-kreen "monster" statistics, as described in Chapter Two under "Stages of Life") do not use the kits described here.
The book gives one set of stats for PC kreen, although Jeral have slightly different modifiers.

Here is a list of the character kits in the book:

• Tik (Hunter)
• Tik-Tik (Guardian)
• Kalak (Scout)
• Kik (Raider)
• Tekchakak (Pack Psionicist)
• Kiltektet (Student Missionary)
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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by AuldDragon » Thu May 16, 2013 7:35 am

Big Mac wrote:
Birchbeer wrote:Zik-chil - These are a cousin species that retain the ability to manipulate their enzymes and change other Kreen. They create the Ziktrin.
Does the "Z" mean anything?

The Zik-chil sounds phonetically similar to Spelljammer's Xixchil. The description sounds similar too. I wonder if one is based on the other. :?
Xixchil came first, and absolutely inspired the Zik-chil. From Thri-Kreen of Athas, p.84, "Where the Kreen are" sidebar:

"The SPELLJAMMER setting has spacefaring thri-kreen, and rumors persist of a crystal sphere (“Kreenspace”) dominated by kreen called xixchil (perhaps similar to the zik-chil of Athas), and related races; most of the fauna of this legendary sphere is supposedly insectoid."

Also on page 84, in the end section "Kreen on Other Worlds":

"On Athas, thri-kreen are one of the dominant lifeforms. This is not the case on other worlds. Athas is thus something of a 'base world' for thri-kreen. It seems that thri-kreen originated on Athas, then spread elsewhere through powerful psionics."

However, just like human, dwarves, elves, halflings, gnomes, orcs, etc. all have multi-sphere origins, I don't see why thri-kreen can't. Simply because Athas is so hard to reach, I'm not a fan of it being the origin for things known to other settings.

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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by TBeholder » Thu May 16, 2013 8:05 am

Birchbeer wrote:Zik-trin (Means changed Kreen)
zik-trin'ta are scouts and the write up of Tohr-kreen
zik-trin'ak, built specifically for combat.

Zik-chil - These are a cousin species that retain the ability to manipulate their enzymes and change other Kreen. They create the Ziktrin.
Big Mac wrote:The Zik-chil sounds phonetically similar to Spelljammer's Xixchil. The description sounds similar too. I wonder if one is based on the other. :?
Same here. IMO it's obvious that Xixchil are what Zik-chil would most likely become if they ever were left on their own (i.e. outside of social symbiosis with Kreen).
But beyond Zik-chil being a part of Tohr-kreen society on Athas and the vague mention of Xixchil dominated sphere above, sadly there's no Chil lore at all, AFAIK.
At best, we can surmise from mentions of ancient Kreen manifest destiny colonization/crusade wave. They have different attitudes, so maybe while Kreen rolled back, Chil bid them "good bye and good luck" and gone their own way?
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Re: Kreens: Difference between Thri & Tohr?

Post by Big Mac » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:04 pm

AuldDragon wrote:Xixchil came first, and absolutely inspired the Zik-chil. From Thri-Kreen of Athas, p.84, "Where the Kreen are" sidebar:

"The SPELLJAMMER setting has spacefaring thri-kreen, and rumors persist of a crystal sphere (“Kreenspace”) dominated by kreen called xixchil (perhaps similar to the zik-chil of Athas), and related races; most of the fauna of this legendary sphere is supposedly insectoid."

Also on page 84, in the end section "Kreen on Other Worlds":

"On Athas, thri-kreen are one of the dominant lifeforms. This is not the case on other worlds. Athas is thus something of a 'base world' for thri-kreen. It seems that thri-kreen originated on Athas, then spread elsewhere through powerful psionics."
So we have both "rumours" and "seems" making both of these sentences weak statements instead of strong ones.

If the Thri-Kreen originated on Athas, then spread elsewhere through powerful psionics, but spacefarers think that the Xixchil came from Kreenspace, then perhaps groundling Thri-Kreens could have Athas as a homeworld, then migrate to Kreenspace and the Xixchil could change from being a groundling race to a spacefaring race there.

If that was the case then the difference between the Zik-chil and the Xixchil (who evolve later in the timeline, even though they existed first in canon) could be tied together in a similar way to the way that spacefaring Orcs evolved into Scro. Only perhaps the Xixchil could have been a faction of the Zik-chil that decided to rework their own culture. They could even cut off the start of their origin story, removing their time on Athas and starting off with an era when their race had a more important role.
AuldDragon wrote:However, just like human, dwarves, elves, halflings, gnomes, orcs, etc. all have multi-sphere origins, I don't see why thri-kreen can't. Simply because Athas is so hard to reach, I'm not a fan of it being the origin for things known to other settings.
I'm sure the sages that subscribe to the "homeworld" concept would point to races with multi-sphere origins and claim that those races existed further back in time in less spheres (or one sphere). All it takes is for the start of the SJ universe to be pushed back further than the start of any other campaign setting.

A lot of stuff in Spelljammer is suggested, but not actually stated to be the truth. I've seen this to a lesser extent in other settings. (IIRC Dragonlance has the gnomes and dwarves having different origin stories to the humans.)

I suppose from a Dark Sun point-of-view, the question with Xixchil is: did they ever exist on Athas, or did the come into existence from Zik-chil that migrated off of Athas?
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