[novels] Netheril Trilogy

Netheril: flying cities, ancient scrolls written on gold leaf, and just a little bit of hubris.

[novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby Big Mac » Mon Aug 12, 2013 10:38 pm

I don't really have the time to read every Forgotten Realms novel, but have been doing a bit of a tour of the FR subsettings, trying to learn more about them. I just stumbled onto a novel with the Arcane Age logo on it and realised that it was the first book in the Netheril Trilogy. The Netheril Trilogy is a set of three books set in the Arcane Age. The books are:

I'm wondering if the plotline from these novels would be something that could be raided for tabletop play.

The trilogy seems to be based around a bet two wizards make about a barbarian. So I'm wondering if the novels will give some details on the human societies around Netheril itself.

Has anyone got these novels? What do you think of them? Do they tie in well with the Netherese products? Do the three novels tell us anything we don't see in the tabletop products? And could the story of Sunbright Steelshanks make for something that would work as a campaign arc?
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby Alzrius » Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:47 pm

I haven't read these in years, but I do remember that they tie in very closely with the Arcane Age: Netheril: Empire of Magic boxed set - the boxed set mentions several of the major characters in this series, summarizing what happens in the books very succinctly.

With regards to the novels themselves, I remember them as being fairly middle-of-the-road. The first book was okay, but the second book had Sunbright being thrown forward in time to the very end of Netheril, which is pretty clearly a ham-handed way to let us see Karsus in all of his off-the-walls insanity, including the casting of his infamous spell Karsus's Avatar. After that, the third book felt somewhat anticlimactic, focusing on much smaller stakes, albeit more personal to the main character.

Also, what the hell was up with the depiction of Wulgreth (in the second book, I think it was)? Unless I'm seriously misinformed, he's a Netherese lich, which should make him a spellcaster of staggeringly high intellect and power. In the book, he basically acts like an undead gorilla, hooting and beating his chest while he slaps Sunbright around.
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby Big Mac » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:30 pm

Alzrius wrote:I haven't read these in years, but I do remember that they tie in very closely with the Arcane Age: Netheril: Empire of Magic boxed set - the boxed set mentions several of the major characters in this series, summarizing what happens in the books very succinctly.


Thanks Alzirius. :)

I'll definately try to get hold of these. I will be interested to see if they mention the Netherese Spelljammer stuff.

Alzrius wrote:With regards to the novels themselves, I remember them as being fairly middle-of-the-road. The first book was okay, but the second book had Sunbright being thrown forward in time to the very end of Netheril, which is pretty clearly a ham-handed way to let us see Karsus in all of his off-the-walls insanity, including the casting of his infamous spell Karsus's Avatar. After that, the third book felt somewhat anticlimactic, focusing on much smaller stakes, albeit more personal to the main character.


Well I've not read them yet, so I don't want to invite too many spoilers, but I would have thought the only reason to sent characters forward in time, would be to give them a chance to change the future, after they returned to their own time.

Alzrius wrote:Also, what the hell was up with the depiction of Wulgreth (in the second book, I think it was)? Unless I'm seriously misinformed, he's a Netherese lich, which should make him a spellcaster of staggeringly high intellect and power. In the book, he basically acts like an undead gorilla, hooting and beating his chest while he slaps Sunbright around.


I don't recall Wulgreth. Perhaps one of us could start a topic to discuss him.
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby apotheot » Fri Apr 15, 2016 3:06 pm

Big Mac, Don't forget the Tie-in Anthology 'Realms of the Arcane', some nice stories in there including the story of the origin of Drizzt's cat Gwenhwyfar.

Alzrius, had read these books long before I knew who Wulgreth was, so had to go re-read about 100 pages. Although technically by virtue of classification Wulgreth is a lich (he becomes a demilich after all), he did not chose to become one, it was Karsus corrupting heavy magic that made him one. At various points in the text they call him "zombie king" and "wizard lich" In 2nd ed there was no such thing as a 'Netherese Lich' at least not as its own unique monster, but there was a Netherese Zombie, which Wulgreths powers and description seems to fit other than the whole being subservient to the Lichlord thing. It is possible that he was a wizard but not an arcanist...therefore not super high level when he became a lich. He may not have even been a very good wizard...
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby Big Mac » Wed Apr 20, 2016 11:01 pm

apotheot wrote:Big Mac, Don't forget the Tie-in Anthology 'Realms of the Arcane', some nice stories in there including the story of the origin of Drizzt's cat Gwenhwyfar.


Realms of the Arcane? I've never heard of this. The description on Amazon doesn't seem to indicate that it is conneted to the Arcane Age. :?
Realms of the Arcane page on Amazon wrote:Candlekeep boasts one of the finest libraries in the Realms, where the privileged few may conduct their research. But what about its secret collections? Volumes and scrolls long forgotten or hidden from the inquiring eyes of browsers. Volumes dealing with matters that can only be described asarcane.

New tales of Torl past and present by favorite Realms authors, including:Ed Greenwood, Elaine Cunningham, Jeff Grubb, Mark Anthony, and others


It sounds more like "arcane spellcasters" than "Arcane Age". :?

apotheot wrote:Alzrius, had read these books long before I knew who Wulgreth was, so had to go re-read about 100 pages. Although technically by virtue of classification Wulgreth is a lich (he becomes a demilich after all), he did not chose to become one, it was Karsus corrupting heavy magic that made him one. At various points in the text they call him "zombie king" and "wizard lich" In 2nd ed there was no such thing as a 'Netherese Lich' at least not as its own unique monster, but there was a Netherese Zombie, which Wulgreths powers and description seems to fit other than the whole being subservient to the Lichlord thing. It is possible that he was a wizard but not an arcanist...therefore not super high level when he became a lich. He may not have even been a very good wizard...


The good thing about undead characters is that (if people designing them can be bothered to work out the historical background) they can be a great way to create plot-hooks based in the ancient past and then apply those to the present. :cool:

To a lesser extent, elves can be used for long-term plot hooks.
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby apotheot » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:16 am

Big Mac wrote:
apotheot wrote:Big Mac, Don't forget the Tie-in Anthology 'Realms of the Arcane', some nice stories in there including the story of the origin of Drizzt's cat Gwenhwyfar.


Realms of the Arcane? I've never heard of this. The description on Amazon doesn't seem to indicate that it is conneted to the Arcane Age. :?
Realms of the Arcane page on Amazon wrote:Candlekeep boasts one of the finest libraries in the Realms, where the privileged few may conduct their research. But what about its secret collections? Volumes and scrolls long forgotten or hidden from the inquiring eyes of browsers. Volumes dealing with matters that can only be described asarcane.

New tales of Torl past and present by favorite Realms authors, including:Ed Greenwood, Elaine Cunningham, Jeff Grubb, Mark Anthony, and others


It sounds more like "arcane spellcasters" than "Arcane Age". :?




No definitely not. First the term "arcane spellcaster" didn't mean the same thing in 2nd ed as it did later. It was more synonymous with "Arcanist", meaning the Arch-wizards of Netheril. The book was originally announced as a tie in, and the cover art/publication date backs that up. Unfortunately, Clayton Emery didn't contribute to it, as he was likely finishing his series. Essentially these are stories that somehow tie to the Arcane Age, though how each was done varies. The wikia has the names of the stories and synopses for some of them. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/R ... the_Arcane The framing story is what the Amazon blurb refers to and it is somewhat like one of Thompsen's tie-ins with his Volo works...

Also, I am apparently mistaken, as the story Gwenhywfar was in Realms of Magic (which IS essentially about Arcane Spellcasters), I got that confused likely due to the cat's tie to Cormanthyr.
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby Alzrius » Thu Apr 28, 2016 6:46 pm

apotheot wrote:Alzrius, had read these books long before I knew who Wulgreth was, so had to go re-read about 100 pages. Although technically by virtue of classification Wulgreth is a lich (he becomes a demilich after all), he did not chose to become one, it was Karsus corrupting heavy magic that made him one. At various points in the text they call him "zombie king" and "wizard lich" In 2nd ed there was no such thing as a 'Netherese Lich' at least not as its own unique monster, but there was a Netherese Zombie, which Wulgreths powers and description seems to fit other than the whole being subservient to the Lichlord thing. It is possible that he was a wizard but not an arcanist...therefore not super high level when he became a lich. He may not have even been a very good wizard...


I didn't mean "Netherese lich" in terms of any sort of reference to a specific creature, but rather that he was an arcanist who became a lich. Certainly, it was by accident, but as you noted he did become a demilich, which I presume was indicative of some sort of intelligence and spellcasting ability, which was not what the text presented. Likewise, if I recall correctly there weren't any "wizards" back then; the three branches of arcanist were it for non-divine spellcasters (at least from Netheril).

That and it would seem more intuitive for the second Wulgreth (who we know was a lich in the more standard sense) to impersonate the first if they seemed near-identical.

Big Mac wrote:Realms of the Arcane? I've never heard of this. The description on Amazon doesn't seem to indicate that it is conneted to the Arcane Age. :?


I have the book, and as apotheot mentioned, it's an anthology about the Arcane Age.
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby Big Mac » Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:20 am

apotheot wrote:
Big Mac wrote:It sounds more like "arcane spellcasters" than "Arcane Age". :?


No definitely not. First the term "arcane spellcaster" didn't mean the same thing in 2nd ed as it did later. It was more synonymous with "Arcanist", meaning the Arch-wizards of Netheril. The book was originally announced as a tie in, and the cover art/publication date backs that up. Unfortunately, Clayton Emery didn't contribute to it, as he was likely finishing his series. Essentially these are stories that somehow tie to the Arcane Age, though how each was done varies. The wikia has the names of the stories and synopses for some of them. http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/R ... the_Arcane The framing story is what the Amazon blurb refers to and it is somewhat like one of Thompsen's tie-ins with his Volo works...


Thanks for the help. I've added this book to my Arcane Age novel wishlist.

apotheot wrote:Also, I am apparently mistaken, as the story Gwenhywfar was in Realms of Magic (which IS essentially about Arcane Spellcasters), I got that confused likely due to the cat's tie to Cormanthyr.


Does the creation of Gwenhywfar date back to the Arcane Age? :?

Alzrius wrote:
apotheot wrote:Alzrius, had read these books long before I knew who Wulgreth was, so had to go re-read about 100 pages. Although technically by virtue of classification Wulgreth is a lich (he becomes a demilich after all), he did not chose to become one, it was Karsus corrupting heavy magic that made him one. At various points in the text they call him "zombie king" and "wizard lich" In 2nd ed there was no such thing as a 'Netherese Lich' at least not as its own unique monster, but there was a Netherese Zombie, which Wulgreths powers and description seems to fit other than the whole being subservient to the Lichlord thing. It is possible that he was a wizard but not an arcanist...therefore not super high level when he became a lich. He may not have even been a very good wizard...


I didn't mean "Netherese lich" in terms of any sort of reference to a specific creature, but rather that he was an arcanist who became a lich. Certainly, it was by accident, but as you noted he did become a demilich, which I presume was indicative of some sort of intelligence and spellcasting ability, which was not what the text presented. Likewise, if I recall correctly there weren't any "wizards" back then; the three branches of arcanist were it for non-divine spellcasters (at least from Netheril).

That and it would seem more intuitive for the second Wulgreth (who we know was a lich in the more standard sense) to impersonate the first if they seemed near-identical.


I'm looking forward to reading the story about Wulgreth. :)
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby apotheot » Fri Apr 29, 2016 2:11 am

Big Mac wrote:Does the creation of Gwenhywfar date back to the Arcane Age? :?


It was created for Josidiah Starym, the paladin of the Cormanthyr who went hunting for the War Blade in the underdark (where he somehow lost it) but returned with the Artblade (making him the Spell Major and head of the Ahk Faer) So yes, it dates back to Cormanthyr...the short story deals with its origins, not sure if anything has talked about how he lost it.

Alzrius wrote:I didn't mean "Netherese lich" in terms of any sort of reference to a specific creature, but rather that he was an arcanist who became a lich. Certainly, it was by accident, but as you noted he did become a demilich, which I presume was indicative of some sort of intelligence and spellcasting ability, which was not what the text presented.


Except any lich that exists long enough will become a demilich... its merely a function of age as you have pointed out to me before.
I think a thousand years is understandable in making Wulgreth the first into a demilich. I agree though, in the book he wasn't very "wizardy".... Was that who 'The Lich Lord' of How the Mighty are Fallen was supposed to be?

Big Mac wrote:I'm looking forward to reading the story about Wulgreth. :)


Wulgreth the first and Wulgreth the second are talked about in the Return of the Archwizards series of books. Some explanation on Wulgreth the second can be found in Hellgate Keep adventure, more in depth in the Grand History of the Realms.
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby Alzrius » Fri Apr 29, 2016 3:50 am

apotheot wrote:Except any lich that exists long enough will become a demilich... its merely a function of age as you have pointed out to me before.


If I recall correctly, I mentioned that to highlight the difference in how demiliches were portrayed in 1st and 2nd Edition (e.g. as a state of quasi-decrepitude) versus 3rd Edition (e.g. a major boost in personal power, implied to be deliberately evoked). It wasn't to say that every variety of lich has demilichdom ahead of it; Suel liches (Monstrous Compendium Annual vol. 2), for example, aren't mentioned as becoming demiliches. Neither are psionic liches (Ravenloft Monstrous Compendium Appendix III: Creatures of Darkness), and it's stated that drider liches (a variant of drow liches; Ibid.) are unknown to have a demilich form (though it admits this might be because no one has found one and lived).

I think a thousand years is understandable in making Wulgreth the first into a demilich. I agree though, in the book he wasn't very "wizardy".... Was that who 'The Lich Lord' of How the Mighty are Fallen was supposed to be?


No idea, but it certainly would have worked rather nicely, since Wulgreth hated Karsus and wanted revenge, which dovetails with the Lich Lord's wanting to attack Karsus to steal his 12th-level spell (though given that the Lichlord could apparently only use 10th-level spells, that seems kind of redundant).
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby apotheot » Fri Apr 29, 2016 6:10 am

Alzrius wrote:
If I recall correctly, I mentioned that to highlight the difference in how demiliches were portrayed in 1st and 2nd Edition (e.g. as a state of quasi-decrepitude) versus 3rd Edition (e.g. a major boost in personal power, implied to be deliberately evoked). It wasn't to say that every variety of lich has demilichdom ahead of it; Suel liches (Monstrous Compendium Annual vol. 2), for example, aren't mentioned as becoming demiliches. Neither are psionic liches (Ravenloft Monstrous Compendium Appendix III: Creatures of Darkness), and it's stated that drider liches (a variant of drow liches; Ibid.) are unknown to have a demilich form (though it admits this might be because no one has found one and lived).


Except in the above cases absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because they are not known to exist, doesn't mean they do not exist. Perhaps all variants of liches become a standard demilich. Van Richten seems to think they all do become demiliches eventually. VR goes so far as to assume that a lich becomes a demilich when they have lost interest in the physical world (pg 76 VRGttL); such things may happen at vastly different rates for different personality types, under different circumstances. Look at Acererak, our first example of a demilich, he only took a measly 300 years to move beyond normal lichdom. It is possible variant liches have greater drives or motivations that keep them invested in the physical world.
Most all we know about the Demilich Wulgreth came from 2nd ed. Even the Summoning, would have been written prior to the 3e PHB, and was released before the Epic Level Handbook which features the 'new badasss' 3e Demilich. So their initial intelligence, level, spell compliment, or even class shouldn't enter into it. Wulgreth becomes a lich accidentally, and thus may not have the awesome powers another lich from the time of Netheril might have, overtime he could withdraw and still become a demilich.

Alzrius wrote:No idea, but it certainly would have worked rather nicely, since Wulgreth hated Karsus and wanted revenge, which dovetails with the Lich Lord's wanting to attack Karsus to steal his 12th-level spell (though given that the Lichlord could apparently only use 10th-level spells, that seems kind of redundant).


I agree, that is what I assumed as well, though I have never seen anything implicit on this... and the character there seems very different than the one depicted in the Arcane Age novels. As for the level of magic, I think it was more about not letting Karsus have it than using it himself.
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby Big Mac » Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:08 am

I suppose that Arcane Age is a great way to explore the period when famous liches were alive.
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby Alzrius » Fri Sep 09, 2016 6:12 pm

apotheot wrote:Except in the above cases absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because they are not known to exist, doesn't mean they do not exist. Perhaps all variants of liches become a standard demilich.


The flipside to this line of reasoning is that just because there's no reason that something cannot be true doesn't unto itself provide any affirmative evidence that it therefore is true. Now, you could speculate that because some types of liches can become demiliches, that's circumstantial evidence to assume that that's the case for other types, but I remain skeptical of that line of reasoning.

Van Richten seems to think they all do become demiliches eventually. VR goes so far as to assume that a lich becomes a demilich when they have lost interest in the physical world (pg 76 VRGttL); such things may happen at vastly different rates for different personality types, under different circumstances.


Van Richten was also openly speculating.

Look at Acererak, our first example of a demilich, he only took a measly 300 years to move beyond normal lichdom. It is possible variant liches have greater drives or motivations that keep them invested in the physical world.


Is that three hundred year scale from Return to the Tomb of Horrors? I think so, but it's been a while since I've gone back and looked.

Most all we know about the Demilich Wulgreth came from 2nd ed. Even the Summoning, would have been written prior to the 3e PHB, and was released before the Epic Level Handbook which features the 'new badasss' 3e Demilich. So their initial intelligence, level, spell compliment, or even class shouldn't enter into it. Wulgreth becomes a lich accidentally, and thus may not have the awesome powers another lich from the time of Netheril might have, overtime he could withdraw and still become a demilich.


Insofar as Wulgreth is concerned, I'm less interested in "could have's" than "should have's." I simply didn't like his presentation as little more than an undead gorilla in the Arcane Age novels, nor his utter quiescence as a demilich in the Return of the Archwizards novels. It strikes me as a tremendous waste of a character (even if the whole "ancient lich from Netheril" bit has two other characters fulfilling it).

Big Mac wrote:I suppose that Arcane Age is a great way to explore the period when famous liches were alive.


Wulgreth notwithstanding, that'd really only be true for Larloch and Aumvor at this point.
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby apotheot » Sun Sep 11, 2016 12:27 pm

Alzrius wrote:apotheot wrote:
Except in the above cases absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because they are not known to exist, doesn't mean they do not exist. Perhaps all variants of liches become a standard demilich.


The flipside to this line of reasoning is that just because there's no reason that something cannot be true doesn't unto itself provide any affirmative evidence that it therefore is true. Now, you could speculate that because some types of liches can become demiliches, that's circumstantial evidence to assume that that's the case for other types, but I remain skeptical of that line of reasoning.

Granted, but there is a game mechanic ruling on this, in the form of the demilich write up for the monster manual. The 2nd ed version even specifies that "Rather, it is the stage into which a lich will eventually evolve as the power which has sustained its physical form gradually begins to fail." no "might" about it, and no mention of exceptions for variants which certainly existed when the the book was penned. Now things may have changed since then.... but that is another assumption.

Alzrius wrote:Van Richten seems to think they all do become demiliches eventually. VR goes so far as to assume that a lich becomes a demilich when they have lost interest in the physical world (pg 76 VRGttL); such things may happen at vastly different rates for different personality types, under different circumstances.


Van Richten was also openly speculating.

Maybe, but he tends to have a good track record on these things.

Alzrius wrote:Look at Acererak, our first example of a demilich, he only took a measly 300 years to move beyond normal lichdom. It is possible variant liches have greater drives or motivations that keep them invested in the physical world.

Is that three hundred year scale from Return to the Tomb of Horrors? I think so, but it's been a while since I've gone back and looked.

Also mentioned in the 4e version I believe, and written about here http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Acererak



Alzrius wrote:Big Mac wrote:
I suppose that Arcane Age is a great way to explore the period when famous liches were alive.

Wulgreth notwithstanding, that'd really only be true for Larloch and Aumvor at this point.


Also a few from BG2:SoA mentioned Here http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=15639 While still canon, they aren't as weighted as things from better sources.

I wonder If we could consider Ioulaum a variant of a lich...
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby AuldDragon » Mon Sep 12, 2016 4:27 am

apotheot wrote:
Alzrius wrote:apotheot wrote:
Except in the above cases absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. Just because they are not known to exist, doesn't mean they do not exist. Perhaps all variants of liches become a standard demilich.


The flipside to this line of reasoning is that just because there's no reason that something cannot be true doesn't unto itself provide any affirmative evidence that it therefore is true. Now, you could speculate that because some types of liches can become demiliches, that's circumstantial evidence to assume that that's the case for other types, but I remain skeptical of that line of reasoning.

Granted, but there is a game mechanic ruling on this, in the form of the demilich write up for the monster manual. The 2nd ed version even specifies that "Rather, it is the stage into which a lich will eventually evolve as the power which has sustained its physical form gradually begins to fail." no "might" about it, and no mention of exceptions for variants which certainly existed when the the book was penned. Now things may have changed since then.... but that is another assumption.


If their powersource is different, there's no reason to expect it to follow the same path. Suel liches have to change bodies, psionic liches are psionic rather than magical, master liches gain lichdom in part through pacts with dark powers, and archliches and baelnorn are non-evil (so it is safe to assume the magic animating them doesn't involve the same evil magics as standard liches).

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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby ripvanwormer » Thu Nov 17, 2016 2:28 pm

apotheot wrote:
Alzrius wrote:Is that three hundred year scale from Return to the Tomb of Horrors? I think so, but it's been a while since I've gone back and looked.

Also mentioned in the 4e version I believe, and written about here http://www.canonfire.com/wiki/index.php?title=Acererak


That link is down, but it's archived here. There's nothing there about how long it took Acererak to evolve into a demilich—it does mention that he constructed his tomb sometime between 1 CY and 215 CY. That's not meant to read as "he began constructing the tomb in 1 CY and became a demilich in 215 CY." It's just a range of possible dates in which he might have constructed the tomb, based on a vague reference in The Scarlet Brotherhood, page 4.

The Scarlet Brotherhood wrote:During the next two hundred years, the Brotherhood continued to develop its intelligence network. Spies gathered information about the emerging political entities of the Flanaess and encouraged unrest in certain regions if it served the goals of the Suel people. Rumors of a powerful lich, Acererak, building a stronghold in the Vast Swamp caused some alarm, as the Brotherhood feared another magical war with possibly cataclysmic consequences—especially as the undead mage was presumably unconcerned about any potential damage to the local ecology. Acererak later entombed himself after killing all of his slaves; this did much to assuage the Brotherhood's concerns.


Just before that paragraph, the book mentioned the Great Kingdom reaching its peak in 5516 SD (1 CY), setting a lower limit from which to begin counting "the next two hundred years." The next date given is the first appearance of the demigod Wastri in 5730 SD (215 CY), setting an upper limit on the time that Acererak might have constructed his tomb. So from that, we know that Acererak was already a lich sometime between 1 CY and 215 CY; he might have been a lich for long before that, though. 4th edition's Tomb of Horrors puts Acererak's sojourn to Bael Turath in the same period that he constructed the Tomb of Horrors, and he was still a mortal necromancer then. Revenge of the Giants puts this as "600 years before the current age," which might be 500 years before 591 CY, when The Scarlet Brotherhood is set, if you assume that the 4e era is mostly 100 years after the 3e era. That puts the construction of the Tomb of Horrors at perhaps 91 CY, which fits with The Scarlet Brotherhood's dates. Given that, I'd assume there's an upper limit of about 500 years between Acererak's initial lichhood and his demilichdom. We know he was a demilich by 576 CY (approximate date of the original Tomb of Horrors), though, and likely had been for some time. Robilar and Tenser ventured into the Tomb of Horrors about ten years earlier than that. Acererak may not have begun construction of his Fortress of Conclusion until after the death of Orcus, however, in approximately 579 CY if you're to believe the Forgotten Realms timeline of those events. We know that it was possibly Acererak's activity in the Negative Energy Plane that was partially responsible for Orcus's reanimation.

On the other hand, Return to the Tomb of Horrors stated that Acererak had been perpetually conscious for the last millennium, which implies he's been a lich for that long, unless cambions don't sleep. If you accept that over 4e's timeline, that pushes Acererak's lichhood 500 years earlier.
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Re: [novels] Netheril Trilogy

Postby Big Mac » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:03 am

Alzrius wrote:
Big Mac wrote:I suppose that Arcane Age is a great way to explore the period when famous liches were alive.


Wulgreth notwithstanding, that'd really only be true for Larloch and Aumvor at this point.


I am told that the canon Arcane Age products actually presented two different ages (one for the Netherese Empire and the other for the elves). If that is the cas then I presume that people could use the same Arcane Age concepts to build different parts of the Forgotten Realms timeline (or even parts of the timeline of other campaign settings) so that they could build a campaign around particular events in history and/or specific NPCs.

Liches are long dead (or long undead) characters that we know a lot about. That's kind of what I was getting at. We could follow an interesting lich back to the time they were alive and have the PCs gt to meet that living spellcaster.
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