Immortal Equivalents of 4E deites?

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Immortal Equivalents of 4E deites?

Postby Havard » Sun Nov 15, 2009 12:33 am

Has anyone done a quick 4E deity to Immortal conversion? How does this sound?

Avandra == Asterius, Petra
Bahamut == Diamond Dragon
Corellon == Ilsundal
Erathis == Khoronus
Ioun == Odin
Kord == Vanya, Thor, Halav
Melora == Zirchev, Protious
Mordadin == Kagyar
Pelor == Ixion
The Raven Queen == Nyx
Sehanine == Valerias

Not in the PHB:

Io == The Great Dragon
Orcus == Orcus
Demogorgon == Demogorgon
Tiamat == The Pearl Dragon

Note: I have tried to avoid using Immortals I normally associate with realms beyond the Known World in this writeup.

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Last edited by Havard on Wed Feb 10, 2010 6:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby Dwk3 » Sat Jan 09, 2010 7:30 am

I think I saw several deity conversion schemes over in the Vaults of Pandius. One of the cleverest conversions matched Odin up with the Raven Queen -- they have similar portfolios in many ways, and that pairing is one of the few that matches the Raven Queen with a non-Entropic and therefore not necessarily villainous Immortal.

It would be interesting to see what sets of domains each Immortal would get if we could freely assign domains to custom deities in the Character Builder. I tried to create a custom set of deities using every Immortal name available, but I found that I crashed the Character Builder when I tried to load a custom campaign file with more than 63 deities. I am looking forward to seeing the extent to which the customization options actually work in the January release in a couple of weeks.
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby JohnBiles » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:47 am

Havard wrote:Has anyone done a quick 4E deity to Immortal conversion? How does this sound?

Avandra == Asterius, Petra


Avandra == Asterius. Avandra is connected to change, luck, trade, all from a benevolent perspective so she can't be Tyche. She's not really connected to crafts or rulership so not Petra. Ergo, Asterius.

Havard wrote:Bahamut == Diamond Dragon


Yes. In some cases of adapting a general POL to 4E Mystara, Halav would be more appropriate, depending on how draconicish the cult was, given Bahumat of 4E is also god of BIG FIGHTING JUST RULERSHIP AND HERODOM too.

Havard wrote:
Corellon == Ilsundal


Yes.

Havard wrote:Erathis == Khoronus


Petra. Erathis is very much about civilization, crafts, rulers, etc. Khoronous fits with some other stuff later, better. Though Odin might also be used here, for Erathis cults in a Norse style culture.


Havard wrote:Ioun == Odin


Odin isn't enough of a scholar. I'd say Khoronous actually fits better here than as the Erathis equivalent; Ixion would also work in some contexts.


Havard wrote:Kord == Vanya, Thor, Halav


Kord goes to Thor. Vanya is a better fit later and Halav doesn't fit Storm God. Thor is all about the Storm God.

Havard wrote:Melora == Zirchev, Protious


More often Djaea, Terra, Ordana, or Calitha, I think, though also Protius in some contexts. OR Zirchev in some.

Havard wrote:Mordadin == Kagyar


Amen, sing it.

Havard wrote:Pelor == Ixion


Yep.


Havard wrote:The Raven Queen == Nyx


Yep.


Havard wrote:Sehanine == Valerias


Agreed.

Havard wrote:Not in the PHB:

Io == The Great Dragon
Orcus == Orcus
Demogorgon == Demogorgon
Tiamat == The Pearl Dragon


I think you are on the money. Let's add:

Yeenoghu == Ranivorus
Llolth == Arachne-Prime
Asmodeus == Masauwu
Bane == Vanya (Those two would get married in three seconds and have world conquering babies. Or try to conquer each other. Or both.)
Gruumsh == Zugzul (4E Gruumsh isn't just for orcs, he's about the invading, burning, pillaging, raping horde of destruction burning and pillaging and raping and destroying. I couldn't find a humanoid patron other than Jammudaru who combined some brains and that, and Orcus is busy being Orcus.)
Torog == Jammudaru
Vecna == Alphaks? A much smarter Alphaks? Loki as wizard?
Zehir = I can't find the snakey immortal I know has to exist, blast it.
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby Havard » Sat Jan 09, 2010 12:31 pm

Thanks for the input John! :)

JohnBiles wrote:Asmodeus == Masauwu


The Asmodeus/Masauwu connection is brillian! This actually adds a dimension to Masauwu that I felt was missing. Love it!

Bane == Vanya (Those two would get married in three seconds and have world conquering babies. Or try to conquer each other. Or both.)


I think that one is tough to swallow. If Alphaks wasnt so Chaotic, I think he would fit better. Maybe Karaash?

Gruumsh == Zugzul (4E Gruumsh isn't just for orcs, he's about the invading, burning, pillaging, raping horde of destruction burning and pillaging and raping and destroying. I couldn't find a humanoid patron other than Jammudaru who combined some brains and that, and Orcus is busy being Orcus.)


That's interesting. I had always imagined Karaash here. One idea could be that Karaash is a sort of early state Gruumsh, before he lost his eye and stil had a sense of principles. It would be interesting to see if Karaash could develop into Gruumsh....


Torog == Jammudaru


Definately.

Vecna == Alphaks? A much smarter Alphaks? Loki as wizard?


Loki could definately be described as a wizard. He was a fire mage in his mortal life. In norse mythology, he has a wide range of magic as well. I think my original idea here was Thanatos...

Zehir = I can't find the snakey immortal I know has to exist, blast it.


How about Atzanteotl?

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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby JohnBiles » Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:27 pm

Havard wrote:
Bane == Vanya (Those two would get married in three seconds and have world conquering babies. Or try to conquer each other. Or both.)


I think that one is tough to swallow. If Alphaks wasnt so Chaotic, I think he would fit better. Maybe Karaash?


Vanya is higher up the food chain that Karaash and unless I misunderstand Bane and/or Vanya, they seem to fit well. Both are gods of conquest and order who want their followers to be disciplined, strong and aggressive. That does fit Karaash, but isn't Karaash basically a war god for disciplined humanoids? Does anyone other than orcs, goblins, etc, follow him?


Havard wrote:
Gruumsh == Zugzul (4E Gruumsh isn't just for orcs, he's about the invading, burning, pillaging, raping horde of destruction burning and pillaging and raping and destroying. I couldn't find a humanoid patron other than Jammudaru who combined some brains and that, and Orcus is busy being Orcus.)


That's interesting. I had always imagined Karaash here. One idea could be that Karaash is a sort of early state Gruumsh, before he lost his eye and stil had a sense of principles. It would be interesting to see if Karaash could develop into Gruumsh....


Karaash embodies things like Thar's Legion, a more disciplined approach to humanoid conquest. Gruumsh is more like the beast-men conquest of the old Traldar in 1000 BC, where a horde of screaming maniacs sweeps down and kills and rapes everything that moves, then eats it and burns it.


Havard wrote:
Vecna == Alphaks? A much smarter Alphaks? Loki as wizard?


Loki could definately be described as a wizard. He was a fire mage in his mortal life. In norse mythology, he has a wide range of magic as well. I think my original idea here was Thanatos...


Loki works. It needs to be someone who was once mortal, so Thanatos is out.

Havard wrote:
Zehir = I can't find the snakey immortal I know has to exist, blast it.


How about Atzanteotl?

Havard


Yeah, he works well.
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby Havard » Sat Jan 09, 2010 9:30 pm

JohnBiles wrote:Vanya is higher up the food chain that Karaash and unless I misunderstand Bane and/or Vanya, they seem to fit well. Both are gods of conquest and order who want their followers to be disciplined, strong and aggressive. That does fit Karaash, but isn't Karaash basically a war god for disciplined humanoids? Does anyone other than orcs, goblins, etc, follow him?


I see the food chain line of thinking. Reason I dont like Vanya is that Bane is Neutral Evil. Vanya does have some nasty followers, but I dont see her as one of the bad guys. I do think Karaash has other followers on the Savage Coast for instance, but I have to check to be sure.

Karaash embodies things like Thar's Legion, a more disciplined approach to humanoid conquest. Gruumsh is more like the beast-men conquest of the old Traldar in 1000 BC, where a horde of screaming maniacs sweeps down and kills and rapes everything that moves, then eats it and burns it.


Yeah. They are fairly different.


Loki works. It needs to be someone who was once mortal, so Thanatos is out.


Aha, cool :)


Zehir:
How about Atzanteotl?
Yeah, he works well.[/quote][/quote]

Yeah, I always used him for snake like creatures, due to his winged serpent manifestation.

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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby JohnBiles » Sat Jan 09, 2010 10:04 pm

Hmm, what might make the most sense would be something like:

Bane --> Vanya for cults in more civilized places and
Bane --> Karaash for, say, humanoids worshipping Bane and the like.

(I'm assuming this thread is basically for taking something generic 4E and Mystaraizing it.)

Bane's principles in the DMG seem pretty Vanya-coherent to me:
--"Never allow your fear to gain mastery over you, but drive it into the hearts of your foes."
--"Punish insubordination and disorder."
--"Hone your combat skills to perfection, whether you are a mighty general or a lone mercenary."

All three of those strike me as things the Heldannic Knights would agree with 100%.

Gruumsh, by contrast:
--"Conquer and Destroy."
--"Let your strength crush the weak."
--"Do as you will and let no one stop you."
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby Havard » Mon Jan 11, 2010 2:23 pm

JohnBiles wrote:Hmm, what might make the most sense would be something like:

Bane --> Vanya for cults in more civilized places and
Bane --> Karaash for, say, humanoids worshipping Bane and the like.

(I'm assuming this thread is basically for taking something generic 4E and Mystaraizing it.)


Yeah, that seems right. :)

Bane's principles in the DMG seem pretty Vanya-coherent to me:
--"Never allow your fear to gain mastery over you, but drive it into the hearts of your foes."
--"Punish insubordination and disorder."
--"Hone your combat skills to perfection, whether you are a mighty general or a lone mercenary."

All three of those strike me as things the Heldannic Knights would agree with 100%.


Agreed, so when converting modules etc, Bane worshippers could for instance be replaced by HK types. However, I consider the HK's adherence to Vanya's true intentions to be debatable.


Gruumsh, by contrast:
--"Conquer and Destroy."
--"Let your strength crush the weak."
--"Do as you will and let no one stop you."


Seems fair :)

As you said, Orcus would have been a good candidate if he hadn't been Orcus. Maybe some more obscure one like Leptar?

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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby JohnBiles » Mon Jan 11, 2010 8:58 pm

Leptar would be good for human worshippers of Gruumsh. So humanoid worshippers, you could use one of the kill, crush destroy Immortals like Jammaderu who are mainly for humanoids, and human Gruumsh worshippers, Leptar would work.
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby ShaneB » Wed Jan 13, 2010 10:17 am

Having just started to look at running a 4E campaign set in Mystara this entire site is of interest to me.

In regards to this topic, is it really necessary to do any "conversion" as such. Wouldnt it be more appropriate to map granted powers, etc to existing Immortals?

- Shane
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby JohnBiles » Wed Jan 13, 2010 11:13 am

ShaneB wrote:Having just started to look at running a 4E campaign set in Mystara this entire site is of interest to me.

In regards to this topic, is it really necessary to do any "conversion" as such. Wouldnt it be more appropriate to map granted powers, etc to existing Immortals?

- Shane


This is in terms of taking a standard 4E adventure and converting it for use in Mystara.

If you take, say, an adventure where the Cult of Bane is leading an invasion and killing priests of Pelor who oppose them, this would offer guidance on what would fit for Mystara.
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby Havard » Wed Jan 13, 2010 3:28 pm

ShaneB wrote:Having just started to look at running a 4E campaign set in Mystara this entire site is of interest to me.

In regards to this topic, is it really necessary to do any "conversion" as such. Wouldnt it be more appropriate to map granted powers, etc to existing Immortals?


JohnBiles pretty much summed up the purpose of this thread, but I agree that mapping powers etc would also be very useful.

Welcome to the Piazza Shane! :)

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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby Havard » Wed Jan 13, 2010 8:53 pm

And speaking of Asmodeus/Masauwu:

Image

8-)

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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby agathokles » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:57 pm

If the purpose is mostly to handle on the fly conversions for adventures, then the list should be region-sensitive.
E.g., Vanya may replace Bane in some regions, but other Immortals may be more useful elsewhere -- e.g., Brissard in Alphatia, and, as already pointed out, Kaarash in the Broken Lands.
While Havard clearly focuses on the KW, even there there are some cases where things are clearly nation dependent on a smaller scale: e.g., Erathis might replaced by be Khoronus or Petra, in some regions, but in Karameikos, the Church of Karameikos (Vanya, if you want an Immortal) fits better. Same in Thyatis, where Vanya should take both Erathis' (Church of Thyatis) and Bane's (Hattian branch) role.
On the same line, Masauwu fits Asmodeus well, but Loki would be a more suitable replacement in the Northern Reaches.

Code: Select all
                    Thyatis             Northern Reaches      Darokin                Karameikos
Avandra             Asterius/Tyche      Loki                  Asterius/Nob Nar       Asterius/Nob Nar
Bahamut             Tarastia/Vanya      Forsetta/Thor         Al Kalim               Halav/Tarastia
Corellon            Ixion               Odin                  Ilsundal               Ilsundal/Zirchev
Erathis             Tarastia/Vanya      Forsetta              Khoronus               Petra/Tarastia
Ioun                Odin/Tiresias       Odin/The Norns        Twelve Watchers        Zirchev/Ilsundal
Kord                Thor                Thor                  Thor                   Halav/Vanya
Melora              Protius/Terra       Freyja                Zirchev                Zirchev/Ilsundal
Moradin             Kagyar              Kagyar                Kagyar                 Kagyar
Pelor               Ixion               Frey                  Ixion                  Petra/Asterius
The Raven Queen     Nyx                 Hel                   Nyx                    Nyx
Sehanine            Valerias            Freyja/Loki           Valerias/Asterius      Asterius
Io                  Great One           Great One             Great One              Great One
Llolth              Thanatos            Thanatos              Thanatos               Thanatos
Tharizdun           Thanatos            Thanatos              Thanatos               Thanatos
Asmodeus            Masauwu             Loki                  Masauwu                Masauwu
Bane                Vanya               Gylgarid              Kaarash                Vanya/Kaarash
Gruumsh             Alphaks             Leptar                Leptar                 Leptar
Torog               Nyx                 Leptar                Jammudaru              Jammudaru
Vecna               Thanatos            Loki                  Thanatos               Thanatos
Zehir               Talitha             Hel                   Atzanteotl             Hel
Orcus               Orcus               Orcus                 Orcus                  Orcus
Demogorgon          Demogorgon          Demogorgon            Demogorgon             Demogorgon
Tiamat              Alphaks             Kurtulmak             Jammudaru              Jammudaru
Yeenoghu            Ranivorus           Ranivorus             Ranivorus              Ranivorus
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby JohnBiles » Sat Jan 16, 2010 5:58 pm

That's true. Good point, Agathokles.
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby rabindranath72 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 3:03 pm

I was doing something similar porting the 4e setting to BECMI, so I wanted to re-cast the 4e gods as Immortals according to the Immortal Set (not necessarily by mapping them to existing Immortals).

More to the point, Nyx (at least in the Immortal set) is the Hierarch of Entropy, but the Raven Queen is associated with death, not undead (which represent Entropy on the Prime); I don't see their connection at all.

I would say that the Raven Queen would be more an Immortal of the Sphere of Time than anything else, and of Neutral alignment (death is neutral, after all).
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby agathokles » Thu Feb 04, 2010 7:17 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:More to the point, Nyx (at least in the Immortal set) is the Hierarch of Entropy, but the Raven Queen is associated with death, not undead (which represent Entropy on the Prime); I don't see their connection at all.


It all boils down to what your purpose is. For associating 4e clerical powers to existing Immortals, Nyx is a good match for the Raven Queen. Obviously, from a fluff point of view they are very different, but that's irrelevant in the considered context.

OTOH, your issue is rather different. Since it's rather easy to add new Immortals, the conversion of the Raven Queen to BECMI amounts to statting her as a Hierarch of whatever sphere you think appropriate.

GP
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby rabindranath72 » Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:56 pm

agathokles wrote:
rabindranath72 wrote:More to the point, Nyx (at least in the Immortal set) is the Hierarch of Entropy, but the Raven Queen is associated with death, not undead (which represent Entropy on the Prime); I don't see their connection at all.


It all boils down to what your purpose is. For associating 4e clerical powers to existing Immortals, Nyx is a good match for the Raven Queen. Obviously, from a fluff point of view they are very different, but that's irrelevant in the considered context.

OTOH, your issue is rather different. Since it's rather easy to add new Immortals, the conversion of the Raven Queen to BECMI amounts to statting her as a Hierarch of whatever sphere you think appropriate.

GP

I was considering what Nyx represents in the Immortal set (Entropy, undeath) and what the Raven Queen represents in 4e (death). Obviously the fluff is different, but the theme is, also.
Now, perhaps WotI has a different perspective on Entropy? I don't have the WotI with me, but which power does Nyx "grant" to his/her clerics that is close to the Raven Queen?
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby Dwk3 » Fri Feb 05, 2010 4:25 am

FYI --

In the Character Builder campaign files, I ran across a hard limit of 63 deities. I got around that by eliminating obvious non-secret aliases, Immortals who are clearly subservient to other Immortals, Immortals with no known mortal followers, Immortals revered by races that cannot currently be player characters, and Immortals who had obvious and unique deity conversions (such as Corellon for Ilsundal or Moradin for Kagyar). Some of the "obvious" conversions are only obvious in hindsight -- for example, I would never have thought of identifying Odin with the Raven Queen, it was clear that he was the only widely revered non-Entropic Immortal who could possibly be a suitable match for an Unaligned goddess of death.

Let me know if you think I should reconsider any other such pairings. From looking at this thread, I think I may need to decouple Karaash from Bane -- while they are a good match, Karaash may not be the only Immortal who can be paired with Bane.

On the other hand -- do we have a consensus on equating Masaauwu with Asmodeus? If so, I could delete Masaawu from the list of custom deities and add a note about mapping Masaaiwu to Asmodeus. If we do not have a consensus, I will do what I did with other non-obvious or non-unique pairings and simply suggest mapping Masaauwu to Asmodeus in the appropriate text files.
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby agathokles » Fri Feb 05, 2010 12:23 pm

rabindranath72 wrote:Now, perhaps WotI has a different perspective on Entropy? I don't have the WotI with me, but which power does Nyx "grant" to his/her clerics that is close to the Raven Queen?


She grants the Darkness spell, which is an acceptable option for the Raven Queen, should one want to use it.

However, as I mentioned in my previous post, the discussion and table posted above are not designed for a conversion from 4e to BECMI D&D.
For your purpose, it is pointless to look for correspondences among Immortals and 4e gods, since you just need to devise appropriate granted powers and BECMI stats for the 4e gods. In that sense, the correspondence is not needed -- you can easily convert the Raven Queen's 4e channel divinity stuff into WotI granted powers: e.g., the Raven Queen could grant a Cure Light Wounds spell once to thrice per day, usable right after you kill an opponent.

The purpose of the table is to allow people to take existing 4e adventures and play them with minimal changes in Mystara. Thus, clerics of the Raven Queen will become clerics of Nyx or Hel or Saimpt Loup or even other Immortals depending on where you are setting the adventure. Obviously, the similarity will be superficial, but there is a good chance that the adventure will play out without too many issues, unless specific discrepancies between the Raven Queen and her chosen replacement pop up.
For this purpose, it is not necessary to have a perfect correspondence of theme and fluff -- and, in the given nations, Hel and Nyx do cover the "death/darkness goddess at the borderline between evil and neutral" role. Fine grain considerations on the perfect neutrality of the Raven Queen are IMO not useful, since by shifting an adventure from the 4e implied setting to Mystara, you'll erase those built-in assumptions, and will only need coherence in basic facts (i.e., allowing both evil and non-evil priests and having a death/darkness theme).

Also, each option in the table is just the best option for that nation, not the best option among the Immortals. For example, the best replacement for the Raven Queen is certainly Saimpt Loup, but he's not available in Karameikos, and not very well known elsewhere.

GP


GP
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby Havard » Fri Feb 05, 2010 2:59 pm

I think Nyx works in alot of ways. Although associated with Undeath, she is a Neutral Immortal of Entropy, which is interesting in itself.

In some other thread I suggested Odin as a good alternative. In the mythology at least, he is a definitive patron of Death, and is of course also associated with Ravens...

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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby rabindranath72 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:34 am

Havard wrote:I think Nyx works in alot of ways. Although associated with Undeath, she is a Neutral Immortal of Entropy, which is interesting in itself.

In some other thread I suggested Odin as a good alternative. In the mythology at least, he is a definitive patron of Death, and is of course also associated with Ravens...

Havard

Yes, Odin might be an interesting alternative. I just don't like matching death with undeath, and IMO an Immortal/God/whatever should not represent both.
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby rabindranath72 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:40 am

agathokles wrote:
The purpose of the table is to allow people to take existing 4e adventures and play them with minimal changes in Mystara. Thus, clerics of the Raven Queen will become clerics of Nyx or Hel or Saimpt Loup or even other Immortals depending on where you are setting the adventure. Obviously, the similarity will be superficial, but there is a good chance that the adventure will play out without too many issues, unless specific discrepancies between the Raven Queen and her chosen replacement pop up.

Oh, I totally agree with your concept. But that's where I think there is a disconnect. Let's say I have an adventure in which the Raven Queen appears. The RQ is a patron of death (not undeath). So to preserve the "flavour" and "semantics" of the adventure, you look at Mystaran Immortals (I am not speaking about powers granted. Clerics of different religions might be granted the same power after all).
Which Immortals in Mystara would be patrons of death? There would be many choices as you recon, but if I "map" the RQ to an Immortal which is a patron of Undeath, then I am completely off-track. Unless you match death and undeath, or provide both as a portfolio to an Immortal, which is quite disappointing IMO.
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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby Havard » Sat Feb 06, 2010 10:43 am

rabindranath72 wrote:Oh, I totally agree with your concept. But that's where I think there is a disconnect. Let's say I have an adventure in which the Raven Queen appears. The RQ is a patron of death (not undeath). So to preserve the "flavour" and "semantics" of the adventure, you look at Mystaran Immortals (I am not speaking about powers granted. Clerics of different religions might be granted the same power after all).
Which Immortals in Mystara would be patrons of death? There would be many choices as you recon, but if I "map" the RQ to an Immortal which is a patron of Undeath, then I am completely off-track. Unless you match death and undeath, or provide both as a portfolio to an Immortal, which is quite disappointing IMO.


Wouldnt that depend on the role the RQ plays in that specific adventure?

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Re: Immortal Equivalents of 3E deites?

Postby rabindranath72 » Sat Feb 06, 2010 11:07 am

Havard wrote:
rabindranath72 wrote:Oh, I totally agree with your concept. But that's where I think there is a disconnect. Let's say I have an adventure in which the Raven Queen appears. The RQ is a patron of death (not undeath). So to preserve the "flavour" and "semantics" of the adventure, you look at Mystaran Immortals (I am not speaking about powers granted. Clerics of different religions might be granted the same power after all).
Which Immortals in Mystara would be patrons of death? There would be many choices as you recon, but if I "map" the RQ to an Immortal which is a patron of Undeath, then I am completely off-track. Unless you match death and undeath, or provide both as a portfolio to an Immortal, which is quite disappointing IMO.


Wouldnt that depend on the role the RQ plays in that specific adventure?

Havard

Yes, but if she is by definition a patron of Death, I don't expect her to support Undeath or similar; nothing Entropic, to use a BECMI term. Nor life, nor anything which is not related to her portfolio.
But if I port her to an Entropic Immortal, I might need to change that Immortal to support the idea in the adventure.
For example, there is a 4e adventure in which Orcus tries to upset the balance and usurp the place of the RQ. If I ported this adventure to Mystara, and RQ=Nyx, I would have a fight between two Entropic Immortals...who cares? (it would not even be much of a fight considering the position held by Nyx as Hierarch).
Now, if the RQ was a Neutral Immortal of the Sphere of Time (natural decay of things=death), things would be much more interesting: a conflict between Spheres. And it would preserve the respective portfolios: death != undeath

But...I suppose we can agree to disagree :D
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