Mayfair Games' City State Setting

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Havard
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Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by Havard » Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:31 pm

In this thread about Mayfair Games' Role Aids' products, The Dark mentioned the following:
The Dark wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 5:11 am
That looks to be everything in the Role Aids line, but not everything in the Mayfair Games line. They briefly held the license for City State of the Invincible Overlord and produced one large boxed set and seven smaller ones:
101 City State of the Invincible Overlord
102 The Raiders of Ironrock
103 The Wraith of Derric's Deep
104 The Haunt
105 Betrayal at Bogwater
106 Calandia Guidebook
107 Deception at Dasa
108 Briarwood Castle

Since it's a licensed setting, it might not meet everyone's ideal for a Mayfair World, but in my opinion it's so different from the JG version that it's worth considering as either a base for such a setting or a sub-setting within Mayfair World (like Zakhara or Kara-Tur in Forgotten Realms).
Similar points came up in Big Mac's thread about the Calandia Sourcebook

Galliard states that:
galliard wrote:
Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:42 am
My understanding (and I could be wrong here) is that the Mayfair Games products are NOT compatible with Judges Guild products old or new.

GMKeros follows up with:
gmkeros wrote:
Thu Dec 29, 2016 12:09 pm
The Calandia setting for Mayfair is completely different from the old JG setting and does not fit in at all. The only thing they used was the City State, and even that one is some kind of weird version that often doesn't fit together with the original.

I was so happy to find some of the Mayfair books in a RPG store in Vienna, until I started reading them and noticed that nothing of it fits together with the Wilderlands I love...

Robert S. Conley has the following:
robertsconley wrote:
Tue Jan 10, 2017 7:12 pm
The social and cultural information could be used. The geography was completely useless. Calandia was a original setting unique to Mayfair.

The only piece of geography that could be useful was the CSIO itself as a some future version of the original.
Are these differences mentioned only true for the Calandia Sourcebook or is there in fact an entirely separate Mayfair Games setting built around the City State of the Invincible Overlord? Is Mayfair Games' version a complete setting? Should it be combined with Mayfair Games' other material like the Role Aids Series? Could it work as a kind of paralell world to the Wilderlands like how Greyhawk has many parallell worlds?

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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by Big Mac » Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:00 pm

I believe that two of the other Wilderlands settings use the same map...but at different scales. (I can't remember what the third does map-wise.)

I'll be interested to see if the City State of the Invincible Overlord, from Mayfair Games shares the same map or maps as the version from Judges Guild.
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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by Havard » Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:43 am

Big Mac wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:00 pm
I believe that two of the other Wilderlands settings use the same map...but at different scales. (I can't remember what the third does map-wise.)

I'll be interested to see if the City State of the Invincible Overlord, from Mayfair Games shares the same map or maps as the version from Judges Guild.
So the reason people are saying these books are incompatible with the rest of the Wilderlands material is just scale? :? Sounds like an easy thing to fix...

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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by Falconer » Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:55 am

I bought the Mayfair CSIO. I gave the comtents to Jimm Johnson, who remarked that it looked like it could stand in for an earlier version of the CSIO (it seemed smaller in scale, at a glance, than the JG city).

I kept the sweet box (to house my JG set)!
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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by Big Mac » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:20 pm

Havard wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:43 am
Big Mac wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 7:00 pm
I believe that two of the other Wilderlands settings use the same map...but at different scales. (I can't remember what the third does map-wise.)

I'll be interested to see if the City State of the Invincible Overlord, from Mayfair Games shares the same map or maps as the version from Judges Guild.
So the reason people are saying these books are incompatible with the rest of the Wilderlands material is just scale? :? Sounds like an easy thing to fix...
No, I'm saying that two of the other versions of Wilderlands* have a scale issue. (Which like you say is an easy fix.)

* = There are at least four variants of Wilderlands. :)

I don't actually know what is different between the Mayfair Games version of City State of the Invisible Overlord and the Judges Guild version (or any other version). So it's possible it might not just be scale.
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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by Big Mac » Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:25 pm

Falconer wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:55 am
I bought the Mayfair CSIO. I gave the comtents to Jimm Johnson, who remarked that it looked like it could stand in for an earlier version of the CSIO (it seemed smaller in scale, at a glance, than the JG city).
Interesting. Did Jimm say how long ago he thought that the Mayfair Games setting would need to be, relative to anything that Judges Guild published?
Falconer wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:55 am
I kept the sweet box (to house my JG set)!
Did you buy it just for the box? :shock:

It does look like a good design for a RPG product cover. It's very ahead of it's time. You could put that up against the 3rd Edition books from Wizards of the Coast and people would be hard pressed to tell they were from different eras.
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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by ripvanwormer » Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:13 pm

Havard wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:43 am
So the reason people are saying these books are incompatible with the rest of the Wilderlands material is just scale?
They're completely different continents with no features in common.

This is Calandia: Image

"Briarwood" in the center is the City-State of the Invincible Overlord.
Should it be combined with Mayfair Games' other material like the Role Aids Series?
It's not the same continent depicted in Dark Folk and there's no place to put the realms from Lich Lords or Dragons. Perhaps it could be a separate continent on the same planet.

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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by Falconer » Fri Jul 05, 2019 10:31 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:25 pm
Interesting. Did Jimm say how long ago he thought that the Mayfair Games setting would need to be, relative to anything that Judges Guild published?
Not that I recall. It was a rather off-the-cuff remark.
Big Mac wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:25 pm
Did you buy it just for the box? :shock:
Yep!
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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by Big Mac » Wed Jul 10, 2019 12:52 am

ripvanwormer wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 3:13 pm
They're completely different continents with no features in common.
Wow! That is very different.
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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by Havard » Wed Jul 10, 2019 11:22 am

Thanks! I knew that there was a book titled Calandia, but I Did not realize that was the name of the setting or continent.

I could see possibilities for a crossover where the invincible overlord had constructed a copy of his palace on a different world with portals connecting them?

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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by robertsconley » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:45 am

Havard wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:31 pm
101 City State of the Invincible Overlord
102 The Raiders of Ironrock
103 The Wraith of Derric's Deep
104 The Haunt
105 Betrayal at Bogwater
106 Calandia Guidebook
107 Deception at Dasa
108 Briarwood Castle
Havard wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 2:31 pm
Are these differences mentioned only true for the Calandia Sourcebook or is there in fact an entirely separate Mayfair Games setting built around the City State of the Invincible Overlord? Is Mayfair Games' version a complete setting? Should it be combined with Mayfair Games' other material like the Role Aids Series? Could it work as a kind of paralell world to the Wilderlands like how Greyhawk has many parallell worlds?
The above aid formed their own line within Mayfair. Aside from the use of D&Dish mechanics, I am not aware of any connection to the Role-aids line. I would be surprised there would be as the whole thing was licensed from Judges Guild.

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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by robertsconley » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:48 am

Havard wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:43 am
So the reason people are saying these books are incompatible with the rest of the Wilderlands material is just scale? :? Sounds like an easy thing to fix...
It is own setting just as my Majestic WIlderlands and the Wilderlands of High Adventures were their own setting. While MIshler's and my efforts have a high degree of commonality with the original Wilderlands. Mayfair's products are the very definition of City State in name only. The only thing shared are some names, some text from the first two pages of the original CSIO (like the Dragon Kings), and some elements of the city map itself.

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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by robertsconley » Thu Jul 11, 2019 1:52 am

The Mayfair material are good on their own terms especially their adventures. Back in the day it was one of the few RPG products I returned as I felt I was ripped off. I did keep the Calandia supplement because it had cultural stuff and I always like that kind of material irregardless of the source.

Again it is good on it own terms as a D&D setting and adventure line. It sucks as a Wilderlands product.

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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by ripvanwormer » Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:53 am

Big Mac wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 12:25 pm
Falconer wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 11:55 am
I bought the Mayfair CSIO. I gave the comtents to Jimm Johnson, who remarked that it looked like it could stand in for an earlier version of the CSIO (it seemed smaller in scale, at a glance, than the JG city).
Interesting. Did Jimm say how long ago he thought that the Mayfair Games setting would need to be, relative to anything that Judges Guild published?
Dunno about Judges Guild, but elements from Mayfair's City-State history appear in the Necromancer Games City-State history. In the Necromancer Games version, Lucius the Great reigned over the City-State several hundred years ago. In the Mayfair version, Lucius I died only 14 years ago. So one could assume it's been several hundred years.

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Re: Mayfair Games' City State Setting

Post by robertsconley » Thu Jul 11, 2019 6:39 pm

ripvanwormer wrote:
Thu Jul 11, 2019 3:53 am
Dunno about Judges Guild, but elements from Mayfair's City-State history appear in the Necromancer Games City-State history. In the Necromancer Games version, Lucius the Great reigned over the City-State several hundred years ago. In the Mayfair version, Lucius I died only 14 years ago. So one could assume it's been several hundred years.
It from Mayfair partially through me. While I didn't care much for it as a Wilderlands products, the cultural stuff was useful and element got incorporated into the Majestic Wilderlands and including the name of my Overlord Lucius III. Lucius the Great was his grandfather in the Majestic Wilderlands. Lucius the Great was one of the elements that Clark Peterson lifted from MW for the boxed set along with others from the different authors participating in the writing of the boxed set.

Code: Select all

CLAN LORDS OF BULWARK(recorded)
   ?-4263       Halius I
4263-4303       Melius
4303-4329       Lucius I
4329-4349       Halius II

OVERLORDS OF ALL THARIANS
4349-4354       Halius II
4354-4379       Lucius the Great 
*conquered the City State from Salm-Loran in 4348 in while serving his father in the Great Viridistan War. He and his heir held the the title of Overlord of City State separately from Overlord of All Tharians until they were unified under Overlord Tomius in 4406 after the Revolt of the Craftsmen. 
4379-4397       Varius
4397-4406       Tomius

OVERLORDS OF ALL THARIANS AND THE CITY-STATE
the two Overlord titles were unified after the Revolt of the Craftsmen in 4406. 
4406-4427       Tomius
4427-?          Lucius III born 4397 Age: 46
                Halius III born 4413 Age: 20 heir


Warning Raw unedited notes.
http://www.batintheattic.com/wilderlands/csland.html

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