What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

From the Court of the World Emperor to the Barbarian Tribelands of Altanis. Explore Bob Bledsaw's Wilderlands under the shadow of the Invincible Overlord...
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What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Big Mac » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:16 pm

Over at the Wilderlands Fans group on Facebook, Robert Bledsaw III is asking What JG products would you like to see updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder Compatible?

If you have a Facebook account, you might want to sign up to the group and add your answer. But I'm going to cross-post this thread over onto that thread, so if you don't do Facebook, you can answer here.
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Big Mac » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:27 pm

My personal answer would be that I would prefer to play with 3rd Edition rules, but that the products written for 3e are mostly going for prices that are too high on eBay.

My preferred option would be to have something like Print on Demand reprints of the 3e books, via someone like CreateSpace, who over economical shipping rates by selling through Amazon.

If there was a Pathfinder compatible update (that added new material) that would also be desirable, but I would be looking at the total cost of a new product verses the total cost of buying an older copy on the second-hand market.

I think a reprint of the Wilderlands of High Fantasy boxed set (maybe as a single hardback) would be one of the more popular things. :?
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Angel Tarragon » Thu Aug 22, 2013 6:38 am

I'd definitely be all over a Pathfinder update of the D&D 3E boxed set.

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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Havard » Thu Oct 10, 2013 7:17 pm

Could we get the options posted here? :)

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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Falconer » Tue Oct 15, 2013 7:41 pm

My vote was: “http://www.acaeum.com/jg/Item0012.html — Just a straight reprint, please!!! After all, there is an OD&D+Supplements reprint coming out. CSIO is the perfect product to accompany it.”
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Big Mac » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:44 am

Havard wrote:Could we get the options posted here? :)
As of today the votes are:
  • Wilderlands of High Fantasy - 22 votes
  • City State of the World Emperor - 20 votes
  • City State of the Invincible Overlord - 17 votes
  • Tegel Manor - 16 votes
  • Tarantis - 14 votes
  • First Fantasy Campaign - 10 votes
  • Modron - 8 votes
  • Caverns of Thracia - 5 votes
  • Dark Tower - 5 votes
  • Verbosh - 5 votes
  • Unknown Gods - 3 votes
  • Something new - 2 votes
  • Restormel - 1 vote
  • Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor - 1 vote
:)
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Baron » Fri Oct 18, 2013 2:52 am

I agree with Falconer, a reprint of the original, in a more sturdy format, would be preferable for me. But if you wanted to include Pathfinder stats in there as well, I guess that wouldn't spoil the party for me. ;)

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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Havard » Sun Oct 20, 2013 1:16 am

Big Mac wrote:
Havard wrote:Could we get the options posted here? :)
As of today the votes are:
  • Wilderlands of High Fantasy - 22 votes
  • City State of the World Emperor - 20 votes
  • City State of the Invincible Overlord - 17 votes
  • Tegel Manor - 16 votes
  • Tarantis - 14 votes
  • First Fantasy Campaign - 10 votes
  • Modron - 8 votes
  • Caverns of Thracia - 5 votes
  • Dark Tower - 5 votes
  • Verbosh - 5 votes
  • Unknown Gods - 3 votes
  • Something new - 2 votes
  • Restormel - 1 vote
  • Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor - 1 vote
:)

We need a poll here in this forum! :)

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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Falconer » Sun Oct 20, 2013 3:55 am

Okay, but if you do start a poll here, you probably want to leave off the list those products which Bledsaw has said are not his IP and therefore can not be republished by him: First Fantasy Campaign, Caverns of Thracia, and Dark Tower.
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Big Mac » Sun Oct 20, 2013 9:20 pm

Havard wrote:We need a poll here in this forum! :)
Do we really need a poll here? Anyone can post a reply to this thread. Plus there can only be 10 options in a phpBB poll.
Falconer wrote:Okay, but if you do start a poll here, you probably want to leave off the list those products which Bledsaw has said are not his IP and therefore can not be republished by him: First Fantasy Campaign, Caverns of Thracia, and Dark Tower.
That isn't exactly what Robert Bledsaw III said about the last two products. He said this:
Robert Bledsaw III at the Wilderlands group on Facebook wrote:As for Caverns of Thracia and Dark Tower, they are Jennell's IP anyway, so she would have to be on board if we wanted to do that
So he didn't say that it would not happen. He said that it would be Jennell's decision to reprint/update those two products. Why don't I ask her if she would be up for this (in principle)! ;)
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Jennell » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:05 pm

As much as I would absolutely love to have IP from my early career reassigned to me ... The adventures that I wrote for Judges Guild licensed game products are their property. I was an employee at the time. This includes Dark Tower, Book of Treasure Maps, Caverns of Thracia, Hellpits of Nightfang, and even Legendary Duck Tower.

I have no problem with those adventures being ported to other game systems with the following caveats: My name (and not my former name) are credited as primary designer/author. I am consulted in an official role regarding any substantive change to the mythology, story line, characters and creatures involved. When the dust settles, it needs to be a retelling of the original in style and tone ... not a modern reboot.

Warmest regards,

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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Havard » Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:13 pm

Hey Jenell! Great having you with us here on The Piazza! :)

I would love to see some of your modules be reprinted. The originals are getting more difficult to get hold of now and the ones I am familiar with are excellent!

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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Falconer » Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:36 am

Sweet!

Though it makes me sad that they won’t just do straight reprints.
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Big Mac » Mon Oct 21, 2013 6:54 pm

Welcome to The Piazza, Jennell. It is great to see you over here. :D
Jennell wrote:When the dust settles, it needs to be a retelling of the original in style and tone ... not a modern reboot.
That is my feeling about conversions of products to other rules. Things might work differently, but if someone is not going to bother trying to recreate the "feel" of the original, they might as well create a new adventure, where people buying it will not be disapointed.

I am not sure if Judges Guild are thinking of going with Universal System or Pathfinder RPG, but Robert Bledsaw III says they are considering a Kickstarter for the first quarter of 2014. I know you have been working with your revived CityBook line. Would you be up for something like a "sequel" for one or more of the Wilderlands products you created (or making updated artwork) if they wanted to do that sort of thing? Or is work on the new CityBook product taking up all of your free time?
Falconer wrote:Though it makes me sad that they won’t just do straight reprints.
Maybe they might do some of that as well*. If they put the old stuff on Lulu or CreateSpace they would be able to sell the old products even if they had fairly low sales. How many fans of the old Wilderlands stuff do you think do not have copies of the old stuff?

* = Although I'm not sure they would do straight reprints of the Necromancer Games stuff.
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Falconer » Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:15 pm

Big Mac wrote:How many fans of the old Wilderlands stuff do you think do not have copies of the old stuff?
That’s kind of a trickily worded question. For one thing, it’s hard to be a fan of things you don’t have copies of.

Let me put it this way. Dark Tower, City State of the Invincible Overlord, City State of the World Emperor, and Tegel Manor are all very rare and very expensive to buy on eBay (and worse elsewhere). I have been waiting for a decade to get my hands on them. I eventually succeeded with CSIO by painstakingly buying most of the components piecemeal, but that’s not as much an option with the others. As far as possible (without owning them all), I’m a pretty hardcore fan of everything OD&D, JG, and Jaquays. I was before Gary died, I was at the height of the blog boom, and I still am today. If I can’t get my hands on some of these products, I am sure there are others — people who can happily and easily PayPal some money to Expeditious Retreat Press or Frog God Games or whoever (hell, even WotC now), and hold a lovely, pristine old school module in their hands. So it seems weird that with this thriving old school scene, THE most old school company in existence that COULD hook into the scene and sell THE most old school products with THE highest reputation ever … is looking into … Pathfinder?? :?
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Havard » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:41 pm

Falconer wrote: So it seems weird that with this thriving old school scene, THE most old school company in existence that COULD hook into the scene and sell THE most old school products with THE highest reputation ever … is looking into … Pathfinder?? :?
Probably because the RPG market is so small, you might as well try to maximize the sales potential by trying to appeal both to old school fans and fans of the currently best selling system. Of course the risk is that neither segment will be interested, but at least potentially it is a good idea. :)

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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Falconer » Tue Oct 22, 2013 9:49 pm

Well, I wouldn’t buy a Pathfinder product, but it sounds like they may do OSRIC versions as well, so, I could go for that. :)
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Big Mac » Tue Oct 22, 2013 11:47 pm

Actually, Pathfinder RPG support for Wilderlands makes sense to me for two reasons:
  • Pathfinder RPG has a player base, adding support for that player base increases the total number of people that play Wilderlands (of any type of edition) and
  • Paizo have one of the largest online RPG stores in the world. Building content for their ruleset means that Judges Guild can aim guerilla marketing at the community on the Paizo forums.
Judges Guild may have a great reputation as a maker of old school products, but so do Wizards of the Coast and they have moved on to support newer rulesets.

If Judges Guild took a look at what Green Ronin did with their Freeport line, I think they could find a way to build crunchy support for both Pathfinder and an old school system (not sure which one would be best). If they could do that and have some content that can be shared between two editions (or some systemless stuff, like an Atlas of the Wilderlands) they could share out the production cost between a larger fanbase and make it more likely that they can restart the Wilderlands product line.

As we have sadly seen with AGP, it doesn't matter if you make really really cool old school Wilderlands products if fans say they like it but don't actually hand over the cash to keep the product line going. If the Pathfinder fanbase can be used to fund a Kickstarter campaign that is going to get these product back into production. Judges Guild have already stated that some (AD&D) products are unpublishable, so those would need to be converted to something else anyway. Plus we already know that Necromancer Games did 3e versions of some of this stuff, and that is a bit easier to convert to Pathfinder RPG than anything else.

I don't play Pathfinder RPG myself. I play 3.5. So the original Necromancer Games products would be better for me than Pathfinder adaptations. But I think that Pathfinder conversions are more economically viable.
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by gurpsgm » Wed Feb 25, 2015 7:50 pm

I had heard rumors of Bob/JG signing an agreement with Goodman Games to reprint the majority of older material in a newer format (I had heard in that rumor that it was going to be a larger size...) either way I sure hope this is true.
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Bouv » Wed Feb 25, 2015 8:42 pm

gurpsgm wrote:I had heard rumors of Bob/JG signing an agreement with Goodman Games to reprint the majority of older material in a newer format (I had heard in that rumor that it was going to be a larger size...) either way I sure hope this is true.
I've heard it as well. Goodman just finished their Grimtooth's Traps mega-collection kickstarter.

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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Big Mac » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:44 pm

Bouv wrote:
gurpsgm wrote:I had heard rumors of Bob/JG signing an agreement with Goodman Games to reprint the majority of older material in a newer format (I had heard in that rumor that it was going to be a larger size...) either way I sure hope this is true.
I've heard it as well. Goodman just finished their Grimtooth's Traps mega-collection kickstarter.
It isn't just a rumour. It was announced on the Judges Guild Blog, back on the 30th of August 2014:
rbledsaw3 on the Judges Guild blog wrote:Goodman Games – Judges Guild Announcement at GenCon

It was announced that Goodman Games will be doing a Judges Guild Classics product line. It will be a series of over-sized hardcovers with reprints of the original Judges Guild material! You can watch the announcement here which also contains some industry lore many have not heard!
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Joseph Goodman of Goodman Games with Bob Bledsaw II
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Angel Tarragon » Tue Mar 17, 2015 5:18 am

So much for material compatible with Pathfinder. Reprints of the originals are great for the people ticked off by the collectors market, but personally it is not my cup of tea.

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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Big Mac » Fri Mar 27, 2015 12:30 pm

The Angelic Dragon wrote:So much for material compatible with Pathfinder. Reprints of the originals are great for the people ticked off by the collectors market, but personally it is not my cup of tea.
They are doing Pathfinder material too. This is a sideline, that they are allowing another company to create.

Personally, I'm not really likely to buy gigantic oversided RPG books. I would rather have normal-sized reprints. But if this makes some Wilderlands fans happy, and is not stopping new products from coming out, it is a good thing.
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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Angel Tarragon » Sat Mar 28, 2015 12:19 am

Big Mac wrote:They are doing Pathfinder material too. This is a sideline, that they are allowing another company to create.
Ah. I guess I misinterpreted that. Which company? Is it Goodman? I am just a little confuzzled.

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Re: What would you like updated to JG Universal/Pathfinder?

Post by Falconer » Sat Apr 25, 2015 6:30 pm

Judges Guild itself is doing the version with the original stats + Pathfinder stats.

Goodman Games is doing straight reprints.
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