Wilderlands Maps

From the Court of the World Emperor to the Barbarian Tribelands of Altanis. Explore Bob Bledsaw's Wilderlands under the shadow of the Invincible Overlord...

Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Sat Apr 10, 2010 11:00 pm

Well, as with Blackmoor I have discovered the Wilderlands at a very late stage.
I have looked a little at the Wilderlands maps - mainly, to be honest, to see if I could find a way to connect them to Blackmoor.

Anyway, I put this together over the last couple of days.
It's not finished - the labels and some of the town symbols have to be added, and as I was mostly interested in the terrain, I've left it as it is. I may come back to it later, but it should be useful for a DM/Judge anyway.

So, here is Map 3 - Valley of the Ancients.
I had to guess at the boundary between steppes and desert, as there's no demarkation on the map, and I could see no difference between the open terrain in the Valley and that to the north of the escarpment. Maybe someone more familiar with the maps/setting could enlighten me on these points before I post the full-size image.

Given that almost all the maps are black and white, I hope this colour version might be useful to someone.

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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Havard » Sun Apr 11, 2010 9:34 am

I like what you are doing here Dave! :)

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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Mon Apr 12, 2010 10:29 pm

The above map has been updated - it should be complete now except for labels.

The really weird thing about these maps is that a full-sized png is smaller than the compressed one.
If this map-making bug carries on I shall have to look at getting some proper web-space.

Anyway, here's the map directly to the west: Map 2 - Valon
(and if you are observant you will see that the road started on map 2 does not continue onto map3 - the edge continuity errors are a "feature" of the original maps, and if I ever combine them I will disallow that particular feature :) )

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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby isomage » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:11 pm

More excellent work -- I'll be watching this :)
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Thu Apr 15, 2010 1:23 pm

isomage wrote:More excellent work -- I'll be watching this :)


Thanks, I've finished maps 1-4 and hope to post a combined version of 1-6 sometime in the next week. I'll post a link to the full-sized png then.

I've decided to go the "no label" route, as it makes it so much faster, and it means people can use the maps with their own material.

Maybe when I get to number 18 I might consider the labels .... or maybe not! ;)
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby robertsconley » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:31 pm

So you know the city-state map (map 1 old/ map 5 new) is shifted compared to the other maps. If you are not careful you will run into join problems if you just slavishly copy the originals. Plus the join between the southeast tip of the Isle of the blest and the southwest corner on the enjoining map is hosed as well. This is not the necromancer version that but the original JG maps that have these issues (and sadly duplicated in the necromancer version)

I combined the maps in campaign cartographer and will do a export of the coastline and hex grid and the map borders. I will post it so you can use it as a reference for your own fixes.

From that you should be able to do the needed corrections to your own versions. Plus see this thread on the necromancer forums

http://necromancergames.yuku.com/topic/ ... rrata.html

If you have specific question I will be happy to answer them.
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Thu Apr 15, 2010 2:48 pm

robertsconley wrote:So you know the city-state map (map 1 old/ map 5 new) is shifted compared to the other maps. If you are not careful you will run into join problems if you just slavishly copy the originals. Plus the join between the southeast tip of the Isle of the blest and the southwest corner on the enjoining map is hosed as well. This is not the necromancer version that but the original JG maps that have these issues (and sadly duplicated in the necromancer version)

I combined the maps in campaign cartographer and will do a export of the coastline and hex grid and the map borders. I will post it so you can use it as a reference for your own fixes.

From that you should be able to do the needed corrections to your own versions. Plus see this thread on the necromancer forums

http://necromancergames.yuku.com/topic/ ... rrata.html

If you have specific question I will be happy to answer them.


Thanks very much!

What I have done so far is copied the originals, as above, then matched them onto a bigger canvas and fudged the join.

Not that scientific I know. :)

I'll read through the thread tonight after work, and thanks for your offer to export the coastline, that will be a big help.
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby robertsconley » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:11 pm

It turns out that I have it already uploaded.

First you will need the Campaign Cartographer Viewer from here

http://www.profantasy.com/library/downl ... CC3%20View

Then download the Campaign Cartographer map from here

http://www.judgesguild.com/fans/maps/wl ... tailed.zip

Then you can use the layer tool to hide and unhide the map borders and the hex numbers for any map.

The two major decision you will need to make is how to handle the join between Map 1 (city-state) to Map 6( viridistan) and Map 2 (Altanis). And how to handle the southeast tip of the Isle of the Blest.

My solution preserves all the hex numbers. My recommendation is that this is the ideal method for Map 1. As for the Isle of the Blest you may want to shift the southwest tip down a hex row. It will change the hex number of a handful of location but leave the rest of the map alone. It will look better than the weird jog my map has and it will reflect Bledsaw intent better.
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:25 pm

Thank you for that Robert.

I haven't actually looked at your file yet, as I have been working on the maps, and have just finished a rough and ready combined 1-6 map.

Here's a preview, and the full png can be found here.

I will make changes once I've viewed your file.

Edit: Having looked at the coastline in your file, there is only one place where I can see a difference at the moment - that's in zoomed out mode, trying to get an overview.

Some of your small islands do seem bigger than the ones I have drawn - perhaps I hadn't matched resolutions properly, because I know I didn't need to alter any of them.

If you are happy with the look of it so far I will carry on with the next group of maps. If there's anything you think needs to be changed (that little coastline bulge, the extent of the desert terrain I guessed at etc.) let me know, and I'll change it before moving on.

Thank you. :)

Edit: The link has been changed to the latest file, 1b. Apologies to those who downloaded the original after 1b was posted - I forgot to change this link.

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Last edited by Dave L on Sun Apr 18, 2010 10:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Sat Apr 17, 2010 11:58 am

I have tidied up the image - well, actually I've recreated it from the 6 smaller maps, as I realised I'd mucked up pasting the colour layer on one of the maps.

The joins are now so minor as to be invisible, but I've made sure the png is now exactly the hex size of 6 combined maps - 156x68.

Here's the link to the updated image.

Enjoy. :)
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Sat Apr 17, 2010 2:10 pm

Apologies to the 7 people who download the 1a version of the map - I found some issues with missing terrain symbols, and colour missing from 2 of the small islands.

This has now been fixed and the link updated - I am hoping the 1b map will be the final version, unless anyone spots a glaring error.
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby robertsconley » Sat Apr 17, 2010 9:54 pm

Looks good, How are you handling the stair casing? If you notice the map shift down a half row as you go from east to west. The top and bottom of your maps are perfectly flat so that lead me to wonder where you are filling in stuff along the top and bottom.
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Sat Apr 17, 2010 10:02 pm

robertsconley wrote:Looks good, How are you handling the stair casing? If you notice the map shift down a half row as you go from east to west. The top and bottom of your maps are perfectly flat so that lead me to wonder where you are filling in stuff along the top and bottom.

For some reason I've only had 2 problems with it after matching up - so far.

Along the top edge of map 1 I have added a half-row of hexes to make it level with maps 2 and 3.

After the matching of 4, 5 and 6 I had an extra half-row at the bottom of map 5, so I moved the 2 city symbols that would have been sliced in two a few pixels north to avoid the cut-off, and sliced it off. My individual maps, which I haven't posted, I have kept as per the original. If anyone would like to look at them, I can upload them and post the links.

I'm not sure if this will cause an issue when I get around to doing maps 7-9, which is why I've kept the individual maps unaltered!
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:02 am

There's been some discussion about how to represent the plains terrain in these maps. Having asked Robert's opinion, it's been decided to leave the light green colour to represent lightly wooded terrain, and to use the light yellow colour for both plains and steppes terrain. This saves covereing vast portions of the maps with tree symbols, which would make them look cluttered, in my opinion.

Thanks to all who raised this issue, I hope you like the way this has been resolved.

This means I will have to go through my maps 1-6 adding the plains colour and terrain symbol, but I was going to revisit them anyway because of .... numbers! :)

Yes, I can now add hex numbering to the maps, and here's the first, Robert's Wilderness map 19.
The numbers look a bit blurred in the preview - be sure to download the full-size png here and let me know what you think.

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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Tue Apr 20, 2010 10:58 pm

I have now numbered, added plains terrain, and corrected some errors on maps 1-4.

Without reading through every location description for every map, I'm sure some terrain hexes won't match the descriptions exactly, but these are pretty close.

When I've finished 5 and 6 I'll post links so anyone can download the individual maps as well as the combined one, and then take a breather before looking at maps 7-9.
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby robertsconley » Wed Apr 21, 2010 4:03 am

Looking good there Dave, can't wait to see the whole thing combined.
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Wed Apr 21, 2010 10:59 am

robertsconley wrote:Looking good there Dave, can't wait to see the whole thing combined.

Thank you Robert.

I've had some thoughts on numbering for the combined maps.

If I re-number them it means numbers over 100. I've had a look at this, and they are either so small they are blurred or so big they bleed into neghbouring hexes.

Keeping the original numbers will lead to many duplicates, and also some issues where the matching of the maps goes weird.

My gut feeling at the moment is to leave the numbers off the combined maps - what do you think?
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Big Mac » Wed Apr 21, 2010 12:33 pm

This is brilliant. Thanks Dave. 8-)

Dave L wrote:The really weird thing about these maps is that a full-sized png is smaller than the compressed one.


Maybe your compression settings are wrong (or your software is buggy).

Dave L wrote:If this map-making bug carries on I shall have to look at getting some proper web-space.


Would an account on Flickr do the job? If you look at Flickr, they automatically create different size versions of each uploaded picture. So if you put you maps there, they would give you thumbnail sized versions. Thumbnails might be helpful for forums, as they take up less space.

The Flickr ToS require you to stick in a link to their page for your image, but you would want to do that anyway.
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Big Mac » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:00 pm

robertsconley wrote:As for the Isle of the Blest you may want to shift the southwest tip down a hex row. It will change the hex number of a handful of location but leave the rest of the map alone. It will look better than the weird jog my map has and it will reflect Bledsaw intent better.


It is great to see pros that continue to look for (and fix) bugs that sneak into their work.

Dave L wrote:My individual maps, which I haven't posted, I have kept as per the original. If anyone would like to look at them, I can upload them and post the links.


If there was a website that did for Wilderlands, what Vaults of Pandius does for Mystara, it would be great to have your master map on one page, and have areas on that map that people can click on, to get to your individual maps.

That would allow you to give both things to people.

Dave L wrote:
robertsconley wrote:Looking good there Dave, can't wait to see the whole thing combined.

Thank you Robert.

I've had some thoughts on numbering for the combined maps.

If I re-number them it means numbers over 100. I've had a look at this, and they are either so small they are blurred or so big they bleed into neghbouring hexes.

Keeping the original numbers will lead to many duplicates, and also some issues where the matching of the maps goes weird.

My gut feeling at the moment is to leave the numbers off the combined maps - what do you think?


I never used to like hex maps, or hex numbers, until Robert sold me on the 'sandbox campaign' concept. So I suppose your big question is: would someone be generating a campaign and sandboxing from the large map?

I am guessing that the numbers are most useful for a GM (judge), so if your big map is a player's map, perhaps they should be left off.

However, if you do decide that large scale hex mapping would be helpful (for some sort of purpose), perhaps you could invent a system similar to the UK's Ordinance Survey maps. They use the national grid reference system. That system has a measurement for eastings and a second for northings, but each grid also has a two letter code.

Hex maps are slightly different (because they are hexes - not squares) but I believe that you could arrange hexes within gigantic hexes. The gigantic hexes could then use all the same hex numbers, but you could have a double border (or something) to show that they are in the next part of the hex grid system and a two letter watermark could be combined with the hex numbers when people want to look something up.
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Wed Apr 21, 2010 1:47 pm

Big Mac wrote:However, if you do decide that large scale hex mapping would be helpful (for some sort of purpose), perhaps you could invent a system similar to the UK's Ordinance Survey maps. They use the national grid reference system. That system has a measurement for eastings and a second for northings, but each grid also has a two letter code.

Hex maps are slightly different (because they are hexes - not squares) but I believe that you could arrange hexes within gigantic hexes. The gigantic hexes could then use all the same hex numbers, but you could have a double border (or something) to show that they are in the next part of the hex grid system and a two letter watermark could be combined with the hex numbers when people want to look something up.


Or Isomage, who makes the Hexgimp software, may come up with something .... ;)

Edit: Thanks for the suggestion of flickr - check my signature. :)
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby isomage » Thu Apr 22, 2010 9:51 am

hexGIMP can now number hexes; see version 0.0.5 here.
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Chimpman » Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:29 pm

isomage wrote:hexGIMP can now number hexes; see version 0.0.5 here.

You da man, isomage! Talk about a quick response :D
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Thu Apr 29, 2010 10:41 pm

I've just uploaded Map 07: Desert Lands and the Holy Cities of Mycr to my flickr account.

The full-sized maps 1-7 and 19 can be found here with and without numbers.

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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Big Mac » Sun May 02, 2010 12:15 pm

Dave L wrote:
Big Mac wrote:However, if you do decide that large scale hex mapping would be helpful (for some sort of purpose), perhaps you could invent a system similar to the UK's Ordinance Survey maps. They use the national grid reference system. That system has a measurement for eastings and a second for northings, but each grid also has a two letter code.

Hex maps are slightly different (because they are hexes - not squares) but I believe that you could arrange hexes within gigantic hexes. The gigantic hexes could then use all the same hex numbers, but you could have a double border (or something) to show that they are in the next part of the hex grid system and a two letter watermark could be combined with the hex numbers when people want to look something up.


Or Isomage, who makes the Hexgimp software, may come up with something .... ;)

Edit: Thanks for the suggestion of flickr - check my signature. :)


Hey! Thunder Rift and Blackmoor too! Nice! 8-)

Chimpman wrote:
isomage wrote:hexGIMP can now number hexes; see version 0.0.5 here.

You da man, isomage! Talk about a quick response :D


Wow! That is fantastic customer service. :ugeek:

Dave L wrote:I've just uploaded Map 07: Desert Lands and the Holy Cities of Mycr to my flickr account.

The full-sized maps 1-7 and 19 can be found here with and without numbers.

Image


This map (like your others) looks great. I don't suppose there are other campaign settings that you like?
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Re: Wilderlands Maps

Postby Dave L » Sun May 02, 2010 1:19 pm

Big Mac wrote:This map (like your others) looks great. I don't suppose there are other campaign settings that you like?

Such as? :)

Serious note - although my WL production has slowed down due to actually starting to PLAY a game of 3.5e, I would like to see that through to map 18.

The TR map was revisiting my very first foray into map copying, and the Blackmoor maps were what sparked off using Hexgimp, and led me into 3.5e. Any further Blackmoor maps would be first, followed by the remaining WL maps.

So another setting would be secondary, at least until the WL maps were finished. Having said all that, I'd love the challenge. Any ideas?
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