Pathfinder 2 Playtest

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Morfie
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Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Morfie » Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:02 pm

Have had a quick glance through the Playtest Rules and Bestiary.

Dislikes
- Still calling it Pathfinder. Needs another name to prevent confusion.
- Silver as the Standard Coin. Gold is my master.
- Gate as a 10th level spell. Makes planar travel difficult.
- Low spell totals. A 20th level Wizard or Cleric can only cast 3 x 1st level spells.
- Goblin as an Ancestry (aka Player Race). Goblins were okay as a one-shot in the Free RPG day series, but not as a standard..
- Touch AC. Not needed.
- Fort/Reflex/Will saving throws are kept. Use the stats!
- Ability boosts. Too many..
- Class Feats. Too many..
- General Feats. Too many..
- Weapon Traits. Too complicated.
- Downtime needs more detail.


Likes
- No A of O.
- Proficiency Ranks. UTEML or TEML is the new acronym!
- Archetypes.
- 10th level spells.
- Bulk. A better way of handling encumbrance.
- Skill consolidation.
- Backgrounds.
- Ancestry Feats.
- Resonance points. Great for magical treasure balance and makes Charisma important.

Love
- The XP rate. This is so simple but brilliant! I want to use it for other rulesets!

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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Kythkyn » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:13 pm

I've been curious about this. We got Pathfinder when it came out, but I sort of stopped liking it.

So, there's still feat overload though? Hmm...
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Havard » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:19 pm

Thanks for sharing this. I had forgotten than Pathfinder 2 was far into development. Interesting to hear what changes are being made.

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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by shesheyan » Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:18 am

Can you expand on the XP system and resonance?
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Morfie » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:45 am

Kythkyn wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:13 pm
I've been curious about this. We got Pathfinder when it came out, but I sort of stopped liking it.

So, there's still feat overload though? Hmm...
Yup, afraid so. The main thing I didn't like about Pathfinder was the Feat Overload.. no change there.

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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Morfie » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:27 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:18 am
Can you expand on the XP system and resonance?
Okay, but you won't get the full picture. If you have an account with Paizo the playtest rules are free so I recommend getting them.
Anyway here goes...

Resonance
So a character gets 1 Resonance Point per level, then adds their Cha bonus. ALL magic items have resonance points (like a level) and you can't use more than what you have got in total. I think this is a great way of limiting magic item bloat.
So for an example if we have a Level 8 character with regular no-bonus Charisma, they could have a +1 weapon (4 RP), and +1 armor (4 RP) too, but they couldn't also use a Ring of Protection, or drink an Invisibility Potion, or use Boots of Elvenkind, or any other magic item at all. There are rules to go over the max using a DC check. You decide what is "activated" on a daily basis.
Before you had all those slots that got min/maxed to hell like a video game. Resonance points prevents that.

XP System
There is no level chart anymore. It is a straight 1000 XP per level. You hit the 1000 XP you gain a level and XP goes back to 0 to start again.
So 1000 XP to get from level 1 to 2, and 1000 XP to go from Level 19 to 20. If you want Fast advancement you can have the limit at 800, if you want Slow advancement you can use 1200.
Then in the Bestiary there is the Creature XP chart. Basically for a match of the Party Level you get 40 XP. It is scaled from Party Level -4 gets 10 XP to Party level +4 gets 160 XP. Creature's levels are basically CR's but they can hit 0. As usual this is based on a 4 character party.
So for a 4 char party to gain a level at the 1000 XP rate they need to fight 25 equivalent creatures, excluding story/hazard xp. In 3.5 this value was 13.33 and PF1 Medium had 20.

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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by shesheyan » Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:43 pm

Resonance is really clever. Encumbrance will become very important with min/maxers wanting to carry a magic store in their backpack. Is Bulk a volume type system? We have that in Coriolis. Character has 6 lines on his sheet. Each line can have one large or two medium or three small items. Tiny items don't count but GM as final say on number. Its a very good and fast way to record encumbrance.

XP : 1000xp for all levels is a bit hard to wrap my head around... but the math seems to work.
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Big Mac » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:30 pm

The Pathfinder Playtest is available to download from the Pazio website.

That page says this:
Currently Playtesting: Part 1, The Lost Star August 2 through August 26

A noblewoman's vault in Magnimar is pillaged and you are tasked with recovering a lost family heirloom. Can you find it in time for her to visit the Swallowtail Festival? An adventure for four 1st-level characters.
However, I couldn't see the link to download The Lost Star. :?
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Big Mac » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:32 pm

Morfie wrote:
Fri Aug 03, 2018 12:02 pm
Dislikes
- Still calling it Pathfinder. Needs another name to prevent confusion.
I can see how that might cause a problem.

I'm even wondering if The Piazza needs to have a separate forum for the Pathfinder Playtest. :?

Having said that, there are not enough topics to justify one yet. (And there was never enough interest in pushing for a separate Pathfinder Campaign Setting forum.)
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Dragonhelm » Sat Aug 04, 2018 3:44 pm

I've only skimmed it thus far, but from what little I've been able to see, I will agree that it's feat overload. That being said, that's what Pathfinder is all about. Ultimate customization.

The things I do like are things that were already in place with D&D 5e, most notably backgrounds.

Beyond that, I'm just sick to death of new editions. I know this is the first time that PF has had a new edition, but considering it was all based on 3.5 to begin with....it just feels like yet another edition.

Quite honestly, I'm more interested in Eberron and Ravnica.
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Kythkyn » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:07 pm

Morfie wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:45 am
Yup, afraid so. The main thing I didn't like about Pathfinder was the Feat Overload.. no change there.
Ew
Morfie wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:27 pm
Resonance
So a character gets 1 Resonance Point per level, then adds their Cha bonus...
I... don't like that. The slots at least makes sense thematically to me? But the resonance thing sounds like... it's too gamey for my taste I guess. Like, it seems like one of those things your characters aren't supposed to thing about, but let's be honest, it'd likely come up? IDK, but that idea is an immediate turn off
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by RobJN » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:11 pm

"Pathfinder Next"?
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by RobJN » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:16 pm

Morfie wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 12:27 pm
shesheyan wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:18 am
Can you expand on the XP system and resonance?
Okay, but you won't get the full picture. If you have an account with Paizo the playtest rules are free so I recommend getting them.
Anyway here goes...

Resonance
So a character gets 1 Resonance Point per level, then adds their Cha bonus. ALL magic items have resonance points (like a level) and you can't use more than what you have got in total. I think this is a great way of limiting magic item bloat.
So for an example if we have a Level 8 character with regular no-bonus Charisma, they could have a +1 weapon (4 RP), and +1 armor (4 RP) too, but they couldn't also use a Ring of Protection, or drink an Invisibility Potion, or use Boots of Elvenkind, or any other magic item at all. There are rules to go over the max using a DC check. You decide what is "activated" on a daily basis.
Before you had all those slots that got min/maxed to hell like a video game. Resonance points prevents that.
So... temporary magic items -- which are not supposed to have a lasting impact on your character -- could potentially be useless...? You've got to "turn off" your magic sword or armor in the middle of a fight so you can drink that potion of healing...? :?
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by RobJN » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:26 pm

Big Mac wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:30 pm
The Pathfinder Playtest is available to download from the Pazio website.

That page says this:
Currently Playtesting: Part 1, The Lost Star August 2 through August 26

A noblewoman's vault in Magnimar is pillaged and you are tasked with recovering a lost family heirloom. Can you find it in time for her to visit the Swallowtail Festival? An adventure for four 1st-level characters.
However, I couldn't see the link to download The Lost Star. :?
The adventure is the first chapter of the Doomsday Dawn.pdf that is included in the Playtest Bundle (not just the rulebook) download
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Tim Baker » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:12 pm

shesheyan wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 4:18 am
Can you expand on the XP system and resonance?
If you'd like to get more detailed information on these topics, here are the Paizo blog posts on the new XP system and resonance.
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Tenebrus » Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:09 pm

I'm gearing up to run the Playtest adventures, read it cover to cover.

So far... my Pro/con is a bit different than OP.

Pro:
Falling damage mechanic that's actually dangerous to high level PCs
Vast amounts of customization, with appropriate balancing factors to prevent a fair amount of shenanigans found in Path1
10th level spells... literally saw that Gate was L10 and cheered.
proficiency System is solid, makes sense
"Standard array" is replaced with something that actually makes some sense via the ability boosts. Not sure how it'll play out, goes in pro column for now.
XP system. DANG. this is gold. Stealing for all future D20 games.
Resonance system. YES. Was not sold on it until i read how staffs work now.
Perception is no longer a SKill. It's just a base mechanic.
Rituals. Solid concept, locking Rez behind the ritual system is a stroke of genius

Con:
No bounded accuracy. High level PCs are still effectively immune to orc hordes.
Still too much math to make it new player friendly. It's better... still intimidating
Not feeling the "everything has a rarity" concept very much. We'll see.
Half Elf/Orc as "human ancestries"... makes sense thematically, not favorite thing mechanically.
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Arrius Nideal » Sun Sep 09, 2018 6:52 am

I've ran Pathfinder 2 as a GM with my brothers. We have good experience with Pathfinder, being our main system before we switched to 5e once our gaming table liked the simplicity.
The fact that most people who played 5e were fine with switching to the more crunchy Pathfinder (and my houserules over the subject) did say something about favoring complexity, however.

Here's my assessment:
Unified proficiency is good, but the lack of customization (in form of skill points from the skill system) is one thing my player's didn't like in 5e.
Customization, although it is mostly done by gating abilities away into class or general feats. Things you could do before now require a feat.
3 action system is solid with no complaints. When I started playing D&D (started with 4e 8 years ago), I didn't have the books or PDFs to play with my brothers, and I've made a simple system that used the same general mechanic (you can do 3 things in your turn). We found ourselves taken with the idea. The fact that casting time of spells is tied to actions (verbal component is an action, somatic is an action, etc.) is a very graceful way to enforce component use.
Resonance is something I'm not sold on. I understand the philosophy behind it, but it feels artificial. Instead of using resonance, you can limit the creation or distribution of magic items (such as how 5e used attunement and rarity instead of open-ended wealth). If you want to limit wands, change the mechanics. Likewise goes to potions (potion miscibility being a thing I am personally fond of).
Shield block as a mechanic is a good direction. It's not wholly original, but since Paizo is going for it, it can end up cemented in future RPGs.
I don't like how monsters in PF2 are created. It is understandable why they want different rules for monsters than PCs (simplicity being prime), since the mainstream RPGs moved away from it (4e, 5e, Pathfinder 2 the first to mind), but there is something I like about the equality between players and NPCs. An ability an NPC has should be balanced enough for a player to have (as a feat, spell, or talent).
The organization of the playtest book is absolutely horrendous. The information is scattered everywhere, with constant cross-referencing and new terms tossed around before the chapter they are established in.
Using 4e rituals in PF2 is a good answer to the disparity between combat vs support spells.

I originally intended to run Book 2, but one brother (a wizard) hated playing the wizard so much that it's difficult to get him into the game unless he sees some changes.

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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Boneguard » Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:55 pm

Tenebrus wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:09 pm
I'm gearing up to run the Playtest adventures, read it cover to cover.

So far... my Pro/con is a bit different than OP.

Pro:
Falling damage mechanic that's actually dangerous to high level PCs

[...]
Curious about this one. Would it be possible to have more detail? As Indicated in PF corebook it is pretty weak,

I kind a prefer the way my AD&D (1st Ed) GM is doing it, making it cumulative: so a 30' drop is 6D6 point of Damage (1d6 for the first 10', 2d6 for the first 20' and 3d6 for the first 30') I don't care what level we are a fall can be deadly.
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by shesheyan » Sun Sep 09, 2018 5:48 pm

Boneguard wrote:
Sun Sep 09, 2018 1:55 pm
Tenebrus wrote:
Sat Aug 11, 2018 7:09 pm
I'm gearing up to run the Playtest adventures, read it cover to cover.

So far... my Pro/con is a bit different than OP.

Pro:
Falling damage mechanic that's actually dangerous to high level PCs

[...]
Curious about this one. Would it be possible to have more detail? As Indicated in PF corebook it is pretty weak,

I kind a prefer the way my AD&D (1st Ed) GM is doing it, making it cumulative: so a 30' drop is 6D6 point of Damage (1d6 for the first 10', 2d6 for the first 20' and 3d6 for the first 30') I don't care what level we are a fall can be deadly.
I once had a high level Paladin fall off a 100 feet cliff and survive the drop because the player rolled below average on the xd6 roll and had very high System Shock Survival. Its was pretty ludicrous... The SSS percentage should be also affect by great height. Maybe -10% per 10' after the first 20' feet.
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Re: Pathfinder 2 Playtest

Post by Sturm » Mon Sep 10, 2018 8:48 am

Well some rare real people actually survived falls from airplanes or incredible heights without parachutes, because there was something that allowed them to glide or something which broke their fall without doing lethal damages. So the fact a powerful PC could survive a fall it's not so incredible as he/she could theorically find something to slow his fall.
I find much more unbelievable that a high level fighter could probably survive several low level archers firing at him at short distance. This is really impossible :)

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